THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion
GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA
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Post 1945 Conflicts
Great post Doubledf99.99, I've heard of 'Tree jumping' used during the Malayan Emergency as well.
"The Road to Dien Bien Phu: A History of the First War for Vietnam" - The war in the cities:"As in the north, southerners also turned to civilian women and children to serve as transporters, guides, and information-gatherers. In 1947, an all-female 'Minh Khai Platoon' came to life in this way, named after the communist heroine the French executed outside Saigon in 1941, Nguyen Thi Minh Khai. This platoon numbered thirty young women aged between eighteen and twenty-two. Most of them came from poor urban or semi-rural families and usually worked as street hawkers. Also created was the 'pip-squeak' class. It supplied boys and girls to serve as scouts, guides, and messengers in Saigon-Cholon. AS in the north, most were orphans, aged between eleven and sixteen. Together, women, teenagers, and children passed into and out of the city carrying directives, money, mail, small arms, grenades, and explosives."
Nguyen Thi Minh Khai:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguy%E1...
"The Road to Dien Bien Phu: A History of the First War for Vietnam" - The author mentioned the Haiphong incident in which the French Navy shelled the city and port of Haiphong over a customs dispute between French and the Vietnamese:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiphon...
"The Road to Dien Bien Phu: A History of the First War for Vietnam" - The so called 'salt wars':"Salt wars also broke out. In the early years of the war, especially when the French shifted their attention to fighting in the north, their salt fields in the south became immediately vulnerable to Vietnamese attack. In 1947, Vietnamese commandos attacked and killed the director of the Hon Khoi salt pit located near Nha Trang. The French counterattacked and retook the field. They immediately fortified its defenses, given that it supplied three-quarters of Indochina's total annual salt consumption. The renewed security drive at Hon Khoi included the construction of ten new military posts, seven watchtowers, and the deployment of 170 full-time, heavily armed militiamen. This military investment accurately reflected the importance of maintaining the salt monopoly for the colonial state. The French army then went on the offensive in early 1949 when it forcibly seized the DRV's salt pits in the south at Baria and Bac Lieu, but not before the Vietnamese had flooded 35,000 tons of water into those same fields to render them unusable. To hurt the DRV's salt production elsewhere, the French air force began dropping fuel oil on enemy salt laid out to dry. The goal was to ruin it for consumption."
The Road to Dien Bien Phu: A History of the First War for Vietnam by Christopher E. Goscha
"The Road to Dien Bien Phu: A History of the First War for Vietnam" - From the chapter; The Levee en Masse and War Communism:"Between 1950 and 1954, the DRV territories from Zone IV northwards, people-powered work teams repaired 3,670 km of roads, created 505 km of new ones, and repaired or improved 47,000 meters of bridges. When it came to specific battles, the mobilization of civilians may have only lasted a few weeks before the fighting stopped, but the levels of human mobilization achieved during those powerful spirts were mind-boggling. For the Battle of Cao Bang, which occurred only eight months after the third plenum had closed, the Vietnamese communists mobilized 121,700 people, who collectively provided over 1.7 million workdays clearing roads and delivering supplies. Three-hundred-thousand laborers made the Battle of Vinh Yen possible a few months later by clocking up an astonishing 2.8 million days of work. Two other major battles in 1951, each part of the General Counter-offensive, rounded up people in vast numbers - the Dong Trieu and the Day campaigns mobilized almost 300,000 people for a combined total of 3.6 million days of labour. This massive mobilization of porters and road workers continued until the end of the war. In all, between 1950 and 1954, the state requisitioned over 1.5 million people, who provided a total of almost 50 million days of transport and road work. The government classified these civilian laborers as 'fighter laborers' (chien si dan cong) and not as colonial-era 'coolies'. We do not know how many, mainly young, men were called up to serve in the People's Army between 1950 and 1954, but the number must have exceeded half a million out of a total DRV population of 10 million."
The Battle of Cao Bang:
https://indochine.uqam.ca/en/historic...
Some life at base camp: "The Borneo Latrine of a stack of three 40-gallon oil drums set in a pit avoided the use of soakaway sumps. The 1st Scots Guards built an exemplary 20-seater that was used by a Royal Army Medical Corps (RAMC) lieutenant colonel to show visiting dignitaries. To delouse the human waste, and the bugs and insects that frequent such places, a white-phosphorous hand grenade lobbed into the mess by a medic usually did the trick. When the Scots Guards handed over to a Gurkha battalion, there was clearly a misunderstanding for a Gurkha medic hurled in a high explosive (HE) grenade, which blew the magnificent 20-seater, its hessian privacy screens and several pounds of excrement across the base. Typically, a platoon routine was eight to twelve days on patrol and four days in base. Camp duties revolved around cleaning weapons and equipment; ‘dhobi-ing’ from the previous patrol; preparing for the next patrol; and manning bunkers. Some of the unpopular but essential ‘fatigues’, such as peeling potatoes, cleaning pots and pans, and collecting /disposing of garbage was devolved to locally-employed labour in exchange for payment or supplies. Dress in camp was dependent on the unit culture, the only stipulation being that every man’s personal weapon with a full magazine had to be carried at all times. Mail was eagerly awaited and boredom tackled by training, sport, books, magazines, cards, darts, indoor games and listening to the British Forces Broadcasting Service (BFBS) beaming from Singapore to transistor radios. Alcohol was generally limited to two cans of Tiger or Anchor lager per person per day, although it was not unknown for commanding officers to ban alcohol."van der Bijl, Nicholas. Confrontation: The War with Indonesia, 1962–1966 (pp. 92-93). Pen & Sword Books. Kindle Edition.
Great story about the exploding latrines, no wonder they were called 'thunderboxes' :)
Doubledf99.99 wrote: "Some life at base camp: "The Borneo Latrine of a stack of three 40-gallon oil drums set in a pit avoided the use of soakaway sumps. The 1st Scots Guards built an exemplary 20-seater that was used b..."I got a chuckle out of that.
"The Road to Dien Bien Phu: A History of the First War for Vietnam" - The first recorded use of napalm during the French-Indochina War at the Battle of Vinh Yen. Lucien Bodard, a French war reporter reported:"And then, just below a strangely geometric ridge, a huge ball of fire the color of an orange sun rose up. It was as if it had emerged from the earth itself, though it tumbled towards the ground before unfolding like a tablecloth over one side [of the ridge]. In a matter of seconds, licked by this tongue of flames, everything was on fire, and then nothing was left except for enormous trails of oily and black smoke. It only took a minute for the 'thing' to burn the entire hill and for me to understand what it was: napalm. I had just witnessed its first use in Indochina, the first harvest for this incandescent liquid. De Lattre had done it. It was the secret weapon which he had mentioned to me, which he now counted on and which he had finally dared to use. Only a few weeks earlier, the French spoke with horror of this product capable of creating infernal flames of Gehenna, promising never to use it in Asia. They swore it on their honor. But de Lattre had no shame. On the contrary, he even instructed the censors not to cut any account of it from journalists' copy, but instead to encourage them to make the case for widespread use of this twentieth century version of Ancient Greek fire."
The Battle of Vinh Yen:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...
"The Road to Dien Bien Phu: A History of the First War for Vietnam" - Below is a detailed article on the Battle of Hoa Binh, which the author stated was a French victory, but ultimately, it was a Pyrrhic one.https://www.historynet.com/the-hoa-bi...
"The Road to Dien Bien Phu: A History of the First War for Vietnam" - French efforts to crush Ho's army by military means may have back-fired:"The 'French colonialists' fanned the nationalist flames for the 'Vietnamese communists'. The sustained bombing the French unleashed from mid-1952 added raw hatred to the mix. Napalm blasts that had already started in the delta in early 1951 followed the PAVN into highlands and continued right through the battle of Dien Bien Phu, killing untold numbers of soldiers and civilians. Ngo Van Chieu almost choked on his anger and hate when his men uncovered the corpse of a calcinated baby in a napalmed town somewhere west of Nghia Lo: 'What punishment awaits for those who allow small children to die burned in their cradles by a fire thrown from the sky!' From one end of the DRV to the other, French planes bombed dikes, dams, canals, and animals. Talk of 'total war' might have looked good in Hanoi or Paris, but in applying such tactics the French drove thousands of Vietnamese into Ho's camp. And then there were those terrible 'things' that happened in the borderlands. If the French rightly commemorate the horrible day in mid-1944 when the Nazis took hundreds of innocent lives in a village called Oradour-sur-Glance, then Vietnamese remember some of the terrible things that happened when the French army rolled through their villages during this conflict. The anticommunist singer and songwriter Pham Duy wrote a deeply moving ballad in the late 1940s called 'The Mothers of Gio Linh' in memory of their sones killed during a French raid on this village. Enemy soldiers decapitated them and put their heads on pikes in the middle of the village to let the people of Gio Linh know who was in charge."
The Mothers of Gio Linh:
https://indochine.uqam.ca/en/historic...
Manray9 wrote: "Doubledf99.99 wrote: "Some life at base camp: "The Borneo Latrine of a stack of three 40-gallon oil drums set in a pit avoided the use of soakaway sumps. The 1st Scots Guards built an exemplary 20-..."Definitely something got lost in translation.
Air Assault. ---- "Unlike the 1st (US) Cavalry Division developing massed helicopter assault in Vietnam, Walker was determined that helicopters must be used in direct support of ground operations, and aircrews trained accordingly. In the jungle, a minute in a helicopter equals a day’s march of about 3,000 yards by a company, and 5,000 yards by a platoon; one hour airborne equals five days on the ground; and a battalion using six troop helicopters equals a brigade with none. Fortunately, converting the Fleet Air Arm (FAA) was easy because 845 and 846 Naval Air Squadrons (NAS) lived cheek by jowl with the Royal Marines on the two commando carriers, HMS Albion and Bulwark. 45 Commando had carried out the first major heliborne assault at Suez in 1956. Admiral Sir Desmond Dreyer, the new Commander-in-Chief, Far East Fleet, agreed with Walker that carrier-based helicopter operations were impractical in terms of distance and a quick reaction, and they must be landed. Both squadrons proved so expert at jungle operations that they became adept at moving troops, supply runs and evacuating casualties and prisoners, and achieved a fine reputation by winning the Boyd Trophy in recognition of hours flown over the hostile jungle in 1963 and 1964."van der Bijl, Nicholas. Confrontation: The War with Indonesia, 1962–1966 (p. 111). Pen & Sword Books. Kindle Edition.
Doubledf99.99 wrote: "Air Assault. ---- "Unlike the 1st (US) Cavalry Division developing massed helicopter assault in Vietnam, Walker was determined that helicopters must be used in direct support of ground operations, ..."Excellent post, very interesting indeed!
SAS ingenuity.---- "In Sabah, Sergeant ‘Gypsy’ Smith built a hydro-electric generator from a paddle and a bicycle in a stream near Talibakus, which, when connected to the house of the headman, provided the only lighting for 450 miles. He also distilled ‘jungle juice’ through the hollow frame of his Bergen. A concept pioneered by Woodiwiss was the ‘Step Up’ aimed at convincing Iban communities living near the border that if the Indonesians appeared at a longhouse, or were seen, then troops could be summoned very quickly by ‘sending a message into the sky’ (i.e. by radio)."van der Bijl, Nicholas. Confrontation: The War with Indonesia, 1962–1966 (pp. 168-169). Pen & Sword Books. Kindle Edition.
About the Arty.----"By 1964, the artillery was beginning to play an important role in providing close support, indirect fire missions to neighbouring FDLs and the registration and harassing of likely incursion routes. The problem of unreliable maps to register tracks was resolved by placing coloured parachutes on trees above the targets from which adjustments could then be made. The main enemy of inactivity in the FLBs was reduced by rotating gun crews through front and reserve gun detachments, and internal security patrols as ‘infantilleria’. Maintaining gun positions revetted with corrugated iron and sandbags was a never-ending task, particularly during torrential downpours when positions were drained to ensure they were in a fit state for the guns to be brought into action with the minimum of delay on ‘Take Post!’"van der Bijl, Nicholas. Confrontation: The War with Indonesia, 1962–1966 (p. 174). Pen & Sword Books. Kindle Edition.
The howitzers.---- "When 45th Light Regiment, RA (Lieutenant Colonel Lydekker), arrived in the Far East from Dortmund in October 1963, it supported 28 Commonwealth Brigade counter-revolutionary operations in north-east Thailand. Sent to Sarawak, it took over from 29 Commando Regiment after converting to Pack Howitzer from 25-pounders, and brought with it 2 Locating Radar Troop, 3rd Royal Horse Artillery (RHA) and its Green Archer mortar locating radar. 70 and 176 (Abu Klea) Light Batteries were reinforced by 103 Battery, Royal Australian Artillery, to bring the Regiment up to strength. The gun used was the Italian Oto Melara 105mm M56 Pack Howitzer. Designed to be broken down into portable components, it had a maximum range of about 11,000 yards, which was nearly 1,000 yards shorter than the 25-pounder, but it fired a more powerful shell. Its six gunners could fire an average of six rounds per minute. The Regiment also had 170 (Imjin) Medium Battery under command. Equipped with those reliable veterans of the Second World War, the handsome 5.5-inch wheeled howitzers could throw an 82-lb shell up to 18,100 yards. Initially, there was disbelief when Lydekker was told that the Battery was to replace 145 (Maiwand) Commando Battery as the West Brigade reserve infantry company,"van der Bijl, Nicholas. Confrontation: The War with Indonesia, 1962–1966 (p. 173). Pen & Sword Books. Kindle Edition.
Two very interesting posts about the artillery used in the Confrontation!
Captain Pat Crawford RAMC, RMO with the 1/7th Gurkha Rifles.------- "The seat belts of both officers had snapped and Smith found himself suspended in mid-air with his right arm trapped in the wreckage. Judging that Smith’s life could only be saved if his arm was amputated, Moore supported Smith while Crawford stood in the smashed cabin and, surrounded by intense jungle heat and aviation fuel fumes, for an hour in the gathering gloom, amputated Smith’s arm with his clasp knife. After this ordeal, there was no place for Smith to lie down and, in intense pain, he remained on his feet while Moore organized an improvised hoist. Crawford then accompanied Smith to Simanggang hospital in another helicopter. Smith, who had served for twenty-two years with the Gurkhas, returned to command 1/2nd Gurkha Rifles before the end of Confrontation and later became an author on Gurkha military history. Captain Crawford was awarded the George Medal."van der Bijl, Nicholas. Confrontation: The War with Indonesia, 1962–1966 (pp. 262-263). Pen & Sword Books. Kindle Edition.
Amputation by a clasp knife - yikes - that would have hurt!
I've read the *new* Hastings, about the Cuban missile crisis. Here is my review, for anyone interested:https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Boudewijn wrote: "I've read the *new* Hastings, about the Cuban missile crisis. Here is my review, for anyone interested:https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
[bookcover:The Abyss: Nuclear Crisis Cuba ..."
Great review, thanks for sharing with the group!
My interview with LeMay about that event is the my book "Above the Reich: and it is a good look into the backdoor decisions and stupidity (according to LeMay) of JFK's decisions, but also a few of his best moments.
Boudewijn wrote: "I just came across this book, sounds interesting:https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5..."
Looks good, nice find.
Boudewijn wrote: "I just came across this book, sounds interesting:https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5..."
It's on my wish list :)
Speaking of Post WW2 conflicts I have just finished a book on the CIA who has had more than its fair share in involvement in many post world war two conflicts. Yet another Lifeline special - for $8 "Legacy of Ashes" by Tim Weiner - The history of the CIA” Legacy won the Pulitzer Price. Traces the evolution of the CIA from post world war 2 and the OSS through to its virtual collapse post 9/11. For many of the books I read around military and related history I know the story to differing extents and the new books add additional points of emphasis or challenge prevailing views - such as the excellent hitler as Number 1 german soldier. In this case I knew little of the history of the CIA other than its intelligence failings around 9/11 and its involvement in the overthrow of Allende in Chile (and always rumours that involved in the dismissal of Whitlam as Australian PM in 1975).Legacy of Ashes is remorseless in highlighting the continuing abject failure of the CIA in undertaking covert missions or bringing forward relevant and timely intelligence to decision makers. This failings started from its early days according to Weiner through its inability to obtain any reliable intelligence on the USSR. Weiner looks at many case examples of CIA involvement in “plots” and their disastrous outcomes be it in Poland through to the middle East, Asia (Vietnam obviously) and then Latin America (Cuba figures prominently). Parachuted numerous squads to their death in eastern europe, Korea, Vietnam where no identified support.
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I find it hard to comprehend the CIAs continuing incompetence from failing to recognise emerging events - to name a few - Soviet missiles in Cuba, Russia invasion of Afghanistan,TET offensive etc etc. During the Cold war the CIA continually over estimated the number of Russian nuclear weapons and did not appreciate its failing state in late 1980s. Problem that failed to embed spies at a high level within Russia for any continuing time. Their poor analysis in turn impacted severely quality to of advice to presidents etc such that always struggled for relevance given poor reputation. Number of presidents virtually ignored the CIA particularly Clinton.
Highlights that because of isolationists approach pre WW2 the US had a poor understanding of the world post the war and in evolving from the OSS to the CIA major challenge in direction and recruiting staff in contrast to say the Uk that been involved in espionage for decades. Problems relate to difficulties in attracting and retaining suitably skilled staff particularly those with some knowledge of other countries eg few muslim speakers plus strong willed and misguided Directors (eg Allan Dulles). From Weiner’s account alcoholism was widespread across the CIA with a number of key overseas posts led by alcoholics at critical times.
In reading the book I found it hard to believe that the CIA could continue to make so many bad calls, successfully hide its failings (and damming external reviews) and essentially fail at its core task - keeping US safe from foreign interference as highlighted in the lead up to sept 11. But Weiner has excellent access to many past Directors of the CIA and senior staff who have been very open in their comments on their experiences whilst with the CIA . Obviously many of his accounts of failed covert operations are based on insiders testimony.
Alex wrote: "Speaking of Post WW2 conflicts I have just finished a book on the CIA who has had more than its fair share in involvement in many post world war two conflicts. Yet another Lifeline special - for $8..."Hey, Alex! I'm familiar with the book, read it a couple years ago. I recall that a big theme of it is that the CIA's failure in its intelligence-gathering missions, and the blowback from its covert operations. I also recall that there was very little coverage of CIA's intel successes, or even the CIA's record in technical intel, HUMINT, analysis, or counterintelligence. The U-2 program was quite a success, but I recall that Weiner doesn't devote a lot of space to it, or to other reconnaissance platforms like the SR-71 or spy satellites.
The impression I had from reading the book was that Weiner seems to think that an intelligence service's job is to predict the future. Is that really the case, or should it analyze the capabilities, intentions, strengths, weaknesses, etc. of foreign countries, and help policymakers understand the world we live in?
You mentioned CIA's failure to collect accurate intelligence on the state of the Soviet empire. I don't recall how exactly Weiner treats these episodes (probably critically, I assume), but CIA was warning about the Soviets' economic troubles from the 1970s on (some of these NIEs have been declassified, but I don't know if Weiner cites them). The world has always had dysfunctional regimes that retain their grips on power for decades; predicting their demise is no easy task. Also, the CIA's estimates of Soviet ICBMs actually went down over time, over the course of the U-2 flights and the introduction of the CORONA satellites.
In any case, there isn't anything easy about the intel business, especially one with such a broad mission as CIA's, an agency run by mortal humans, after all. Ideally, yes, CIA should have penetrated the higher levels of the Soviet government, but that's easier said than done in ruthlessly controlled communist police states. The CIA did have some HUMINT successes in the Soviet bloc, such as Kuklinski and Tolkachev (I think Weiner mentions these in the book, but I don't recall in how much detail) I also recall that most of Weiner's assessment of CIA intel ops deals with the Soviet Union, with little coverage of other targets.
Intelligence is a tough business, as is writing intelligence history. I have read Weiner's book, but I'd recommend further reading, to be honest.
(Didn't to mean to rant, if that's what this comes off as, but I don't think Weiner's book is the best starting place for a history of the Agency, or a look at the craft of intelligence)
Great comments Jerome and good to get another perspective. It was a really interesting book but relentless in its negativity which always makes me have a question mark. But given his internal sources were highly critical of CIA did give some credibility to some of his remarks. But as you said it did have its successes and military intelligence not easy ( look at Germany’s underestimation of USSR strength in 1941)Max Hastings book on espionage in WW2 seemed to me the kind of balanced book one hopes for. Highlighted successes and weaknesses of major players but concluded careful not to overplay influence of intell ( even with Ultra for example)
Alex wrote: "Great comments Jerome and good to get another perspective. It was a really interesting book but relentless in its negativity which always makes me have a question mark. But given his internal sourc..."Thanks, Alex! Yeah, I did like the balance in Hastings' book as well; doesn't glamorize the business much, and acknowledges the difficulties of the work (especially HUMINT)
Btw Jerome. I also thought the criticism of the CIA for not taking out Bin laden in the late 1990s was a bit wise after the event. Especially as in some cases woukd have been collateral damage to innocent bystandersHis chapters on Kennedy assasination and possible Cuban involvement very interesting !!
Alex wrote: "Btw Jerome. I also thought the criticism of the CIA for not taking out Bin laden in the late 1990s was a bit wise after the event. Especially as in some cases woukd have been collateral damage to i..."For sure, the late 1990s were quite a different environment, legally and operationally, when it came to blowing up terrorists with armed flying robots on the soil of countries we're not at war with!
I have just finished War By Sebastian Junger. I rate it very highly and if any of you who have a military background have an opinion on it, I would be very interested. My review. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
fourtriplezed wrote: "I have just finished War By Sebastian Junger. I rate it very highly and if any of you who have a military background have an opinion on it, I would be very interested. My review. https://www.good..."
Excellent review 4ZZZ!
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Excellent review 4ZZZ! "Thanks, Rick. Not sure if I have read much like this, so interested in others thoughts.
I have a copy that I purchased when it was first published but have not gotten around to reading it yet.
Forgotten History on Palestine by our own Colin Heaton, 21 minute review:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOhKH...
Thanks for that link, Mike!
Mike wrote: "Forgotten History on Palestine by our own Colin Heaton, 21 minute review:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOhKH..."
Along similar lines, I’m brushing up on my (very basic) knowledge of the middle-east with Jeremy Bowen’s The Making of the Modern Middle East: A Personal History. It’s in no way a military history, and isn’t especially in-depth, but it’s pretty interesting and enlivened by the author’s experiences as a BBC journalist in the region.
An excellent book by Mark Galleotti on Russia's war leading up to the invasion in Ukraïne. Review here for anyone interested.
Boudewijn wrote: "An excellent book by Mark Galleotti on Russia's war leading up to the invasion in Ukraïne. Review here for anyone interested."Luckily, I have an unread copy in my library. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the book.
Doubledf99.99 wrote: "Started on Across the Fence.
John Stryker Meyer"
Right on! Great book, excellent choice! This one is nearly as good also:
Not to mention his friend Lynne M. Black Jr.'s book, Whisky Tango Foxtrot, which is also extremely good...
Also an exceptionally good book! I hope you enjoy them as much as I did.If you have never read them, I would also highly recommend the work of another of Mr. Meyer's friends, Jim Morris. His memoir, 'War Story', is undoubtedly one of the literary masterpieces to come out of the war. His later book 'The Devil's Secret Name' (which to some degree functions as a sequel to 'War Story') is also extremely good, and the much later 'Fighting Men' is worth reading as well...
I have finally gotten around to start reading Adam Makos's book; "Devotion". After watching the movie for the second time I decided I better grab the book and give it a go. Not disappointed so far!
Devotion by Adam Makos
I’m reading Max Hastings’ Abyss which is very good so far. Nuclear attack protocol, 1960’s British style.“In that pre-cellphone era, a bizarre communications machinery was created, which remained in existence until 1970, whereby in the event of warning being received of an incoming [nuclear] strike while the prime minister was in his car, the Automobile Association's radio rescue system for motorists would be co-opted to alert the PM's driver, who would then stop at the nearest public telephone box, for Britain's leader to telephone Downing Street. In a final touch of satire, it was suggested that every Downing Street driver should be issued with the four pennies then necessary to operate a public callbox in this eventuality.”
The Abyss: Nuclear Crisis Cuba 1962
THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP
Books mentioned in this topic
The Angel of Dien Bien Phu: The Lone French Woman at the Decisive Battle for Vietnam (other topics)The Korean War: 1945-1954 (other topics)
Korea: War Without End (other topics)
The Vietnam War: A Military History (other topics)
The Angel of Dien Bien Phu: The Lone French Woman at the Decisive Battle for Vietnam (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Allan Reed Millett (other topics)Allan Reed Millett (other topics)
Richard Dannatt (other topics)
Geoffrey Wawro (other topics)
David W. Cameron (other topics)
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van der Bijl, Nicholas. Confrontation: The War with Indonesia, 1962–1966 (pp. 76-77). Pen & Sword Books. Kindle Edition.