Mystery Lovers! discussion
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Who needs to hang it up?
I have to agree about Patricia Cornwell and Evanovich. Though i have stopped reading Cornwell completely and still struggle on with Stephanie Plum - though i have stopped buying the hardcovers and have moved to either paperback or library books. I also think some of the latest Kathy Reichs novels have been a little light on plot and character development and have started to pull back on reading those as well.
Also, after 20 something books, i think the JD Robb series needs to be put to bed.
Shomeret wrote: "Re Hillerman-- Has nobody noticed that he died last year? It's almost a year ago now. Shomeret"
Hi, Yes, I was going to respond the same way. That Tony Hillerman passed away. I think he did manage to keep his Joe Leaphorn/Jim Chee series fresh. I enjoyed all of his books.
It would explain why he hasn't put out a book in some time.
I agree, Kari. They are under pressure from publishers and fans, yet, an author should have the right to kill a main character. Andrea Camilleri has already written the final novel of his series, sent it to his publisher with the instruction to publish it after he dies. In that novel he kills his main character.
Kari wrote: "I agree an author has the right to kill the series but money and fan pressure is probably pretty strong.I would think killing the main character is to insure that their agent does not hire a ghost writer to continue the series after their death like Ludlum and Sanders. ..."
That's exactly what happened with Doyle and Sherlock Holmes. Doyle wanted to stop and did kill off Holmes so no one else would continue his work, but unfortunately for him and good for the readers this time, neither plan worked.
Ok, let's look again at Ian Rankin. Rebus and Big Ger should die together. They are two sides of the same coin. Rebus is law and order, almost to the limit. Big Ger is lawlessness but will not allow anyone to kill Rebus except himself!The best thing Rankin could do is trap the two together and have them die together. Mutual hatred is also mutual love. Damn, mysteries are so complex when we think they are the simplest of all.
Stephen wrote: "Ok, let's look again at Ian Rankin. Rebus and Big Ger should die together. They are two sides of the same coin. Rebus is law and order, almost to the limit. Big Ger is lawlessness but will not ..."Should Rankin have them both fall over the side of a waterfall? ;-)
Haha, that would be great. You know, in the last book Rebus was the one that hopped on the hospital bed when Big Ger nearly died, saying, "don't you die on me you big bastard!"
Or Dorothy L. Sayers, who grew bored with Lord Peter Wimsey long before her fans did, and married him off.
Susanna wrote: "Or Dorothy L. Sayers, who grew bored with Lord Peter Wimsey long before her fans did, and married him off."Different world then.
Stephen wrote: "Susanna wrote: "Or Dorothy L. Sayers, who grew bored with Lord Peter Wimsey long before her fans did, and married him off."Different world then. "
I'm not sure I understand you, Stephen.
Marrying off a character now would hardly end a series. They would just fight together, or end up divorced. Marriage is no longer a dependable series end.
Ah. At the time, however, it had the same effect.
As she refused to write any more mystery novels.
Haha, she was busy translating Dante in what I think is the finest English translation to date.
That's a very interesting idea, Kari. W is for Wedding!
I think Busman's Honeymoon followed after Sayers married Wimsey off to Harriet. And I believe she left a couple of fragments which were finished (a many-sided word) by Jill someone years later and published to a tiny bit of success.
Stephen, I'm not sure I agree with you about Hill. What I find interesting about him is that over the years, my allegiences have shifted. At first, I sided more with Pascoe and found Dalziel a bit of a buffoon. Now, I find as Pascoe has aged, I find him a bit of a prig and a bore, while Dalziel is still surprising me. Also, Hill has other concerns that play into his writing,often playful, that I find keeps him interesting, such as Butcher's Meat playing off an unfinished Jane Austen novel. With Hill, it's more the writing that keeps me interested than the characters.
Bill wrote: "Butcher's Meat playing off an unfinished Jane Austen novel"That's exactly what made me mad. I don't think he's ever read a word of Austen.
Kari wrote: "Stephen wrote: "That's a very interesting idea, Kari. W is for Wedding!"Shhh. do not give her any ideas. I do not think I would like it if she married Kinsey."
So it will go on to AA is for Alcoholic Anonymous for Murder? LOL JK
Kari wrote: "I think having Kinsey Millhone marry might end Grafton's Series. Does anyone know if she plans on ending with Z? "
I'm pretty sure I read that she plans on ending the series with Z. I sort of doubt that she'll have Kinsey get married.
Z is for what then? Z is for Zebra with an Axe? hehehe
Z is for Ze End?
Susanna wrote: "Z is for Ze End?"lolol Very good.
Kinsey will never marry. She's much too independent. Look what happened when Nevada Barr married off Anna Pigeon. She took off across the country -- alone -- and I think they have been together since. Same with Dana Stabenow's Kate Shugack. Independent women don't need to marry. Look at Oprah. It's more acceptable for women not to marry now. Doesn't mean they can't have a healthy relationship, but after a certain age, there's just no need to marry. Stephanie will never marry Joe. These strong women characters would have to completely change in order to become wives, and frankly, I think the stories wouldn't survive.
Kate Shugack wreaked an awful vengeance on those who killed Jack. I was fine until you brought Oprah into the discussion. lol
I think that's why we were thinking the series might end with a marriage, Sandra.
I'm enjoying this discussion so much that I made it the topic for my post today on Criminal Minds (http://7criminalminds.blogspot.com/) I've decided that the length of the series may depend upon the type of main character and how/why they change over time.Probably spending waaaay too much time thinking about this when I should be reading or writing, but the discussion really made me think about my own characters, so thank you all for the great insights!
CJ
CJ Lyons
http://www.cjlyons.net
URGENT CARE, coming October 27, 2009
WARNING SIGNS, "Lyons is a master within the genre." ~Pittsburgh Magazine
LIFELINES, "A breathtakingly fast-paced medical thriller."~Publishers Weekly
CJ, I don't recall anyone mentioning that you should hang it up.
Stephen wrote: "CJ, I don't recall anyone mentioning that you should hang it up." LOL! I hope not, I only have my third book coming out in a month! One of the questions that began this thread was how much should/could series characters change over time and how that impacted the longevity of the series and that inspired me to think about the different types of successful long-running series characters.Sorry for any confusion!
CJ
CJ Lyons
http://www.cjlyons.net
URGENT CARE, coming October 27, 2009
WARNING SIGNS, "Lyons is a master within the genre." ~Pittsburgh Magazine
LIFELINES, "A breathtakingly fast-paced medical thriller."~Publishers Weekly
Yeah, I went to your site and almost mentioned you've only just begun (think Carpenters song) but I thought it might be rude to say. I will hunt down your books though.
Stephen wrote: "Yeah, I went to your site and almost mentioned you've only just begun (think Carpenters song) but I thought it might be rude to say. I will hunt down your books though." Not rude at all--it's the truth! And the nice thing about my Angels of Mercy series is that it revolves around an ensemble cast, so it has the potential to be long running (fingers crossed!)
But I'm starting a new series with a single main character was wrestling with the question of how to keep things from getting stale and how much change a character can experience--or if they shouldn't change but rather the world around them change.....anyway, great food for thought from everyone's comments here!!!
Thanks again,
CJ
CJ Lyons
http://www.cjlyons.net
URGENT CARE, coming October 27, 2009
WARNING SIGNS, "Lyons is a master within the genre." ~Pittsburgh Magazine
LIFELINES, "A breathtakingly fast-paced medical thriller."~Publishers Weekly
I think Jeffrey Deaver is at his endloved his stuff early on but I just don't get excited about his books any more like i do about Michael Connelly, Peter Robinson, Val McDermid
Peter Robinson has been at it a long time too. I was disappointed in his last outing, but that won't stop me reading his next.Val McDermid just got too brutal for me.
Uh-huh. And I hope I won't be publicly stoned, but Elizabeth George really needs to change gears. About the only thing left to her is to kill the detectives, brutally and without any rationale.
I agree with you. Elizabeth George has become an echo of her former self. Killing Lady Helen was a stupid and pointless thing for her to do. I agree, kill Lynley.
I have gotten very bored with Patterson's books. I used to love them but now they just seem light.
Stephen wrote: "I agree with you. Elizabeth George has become an echo of her former self. Killing Lady Helen was a stupid and pointless thing for her to do. I agree, kill Lynley."It would be a shame to kill Lynley...good looking, smart guy! I will admit though I was pretty fed up with him in the last book where he wandered around like a tramp in his terrible grief after losing his wife and then - pretty quickly- sort of looked ready to hook up with the doctor lady.
Well Lynley was something of a naughty boy pre Lady Helen.
Stephen wrote: "Well Lynley was something of a naughty boy pre Lady Helen."yeah, that's true :)
In so many ways it was Lady Helen who made him bearable.
Renee wrote: "I have gotten very bored with Patterson's books. I used to love them but now they just seem light."
I hate that I have to read a James Patterson (Maxine Paetro) book to find out what's going on with The Murder Club. I detest these short little chapters with no real plot development, but I like these characters. Does Maxine Paetro write solo?
I hate that I have to read a James Patterson (Maxine Paetro) book to find out what's going on with The Murder Club. I detest these short little chapters with no real plot development, but I like these characters. Does Maxine Paetro write solo?
Sandra - you said just what I have been feeling about Patterson's books lately! They are.....just to predictable, too action figures, just too MUCH! I started out loving The Murder Club books - now I put off reading them until I have nothing else available. :(
Matthew Pearl should give it up. I keep reading his books hoping they will get better but I just can't seem to finish the Poe one. Great premise for the books, but boooooring.I have no intention at all of reading the Agatha Raisin series. yuck.
Agatha Raisin is funny, and there are some precarious situations she gets herself into. The thing about men is strictly a sideline. And ALWAYS gets her into trouble.
Bluedaizy wrote: "Matthew Pearl should give it up. I keep reading his books hoping they will get better but I just can't seem to finish the Poe one. Great premise for the books, but boooooring.I have no intent..."
Bluedaizy, you might want to give Pearl another chance. I agree, his second book, The Poe Shadow, was not as good as his first, The Dante Club, but his third one, The Last Dickens, was pretty good. Not as good as his first, but much better than his second, IMO.
I vote for Tamar Myers - both of her series have jumped their sharks for me.
Ahhh Bluedazy I loved the Poe one it was wonderful. And Agatha is my go to lady for a fun light make me laugh break. Thats why there are diferent books out there
I had thought so about Agatha a couple of books back, but kept going and she seems to have a bit of life left in her (series) yet.
I've been trying to read the Poe book for about 3 months now. I'm giving it up. I love Edgar Allen Poe and can't help thinking he would be turning over in his grave (after trying to claw himself out). I think the premises for Pearl's books are really clever, but the books don't deliver in characterization for me. I really want to like it, but have decided life is too short to waste any more time on it.
Mystery Lovers!
Books mentioned in this topic
The Cat Who Dropped a Bombshell (other topics)The Cat Who Brought Down the House (other topics)
The Last Dickens (other topics)
The Poe Shadow (other topics)
The Dante Club (other topics)
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It's possible that if we as reader were more willing to read mystery short stories they would feel more like less the need to pump out novels.
Who is to say? What do the publishers demand of them?