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Patreon - Do You Support Any Authors?
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I've been supporting Jemisin on Patreon. She created her Patreon before she won her Hugo award for The Fifth Season, and while she was certainly known and respected at the time, she wasn't that successful: she still had a "day job" that was unrelated to her writing career. She created her Patreon at the time she quit her day job.My rationale was basically what she promised explicitly: it would allow her to be a full-time writer. I enjoyed her writing both in novels and elsewhere, so that seemed worth a few bucks.
I might remove her from my Patreon list eventually. She certainly seems to be getting more recognition over the past year.
Most people realize that becoming a fiction writer is not a great plan if you want to get rich, but I've been surprised at how little money even some "successful" writers make. There are known and well-liked writers with lots of published novels and fanbases who still live on a less-than-middle-class income.
By the time The Fifth Season came out she'd already published 5 full length books, won a Locus award, and been nominated for 12 other major awards. I'd call that pretty successful.
"Successful" in terms of recognition, sure.
I support Tim Pratt (also known as T.A. Pratt) I have been following his writing for years and I follow him on social media. He's self-published several works through crowd funding which I have supported. He started a Patreon, and I supported because I enjoy his writing and want to see him do more. Plus, I know through following him on social media, that he still has a day job and that he can't yet afford to just write full time. He puts out a short story every month, but I've only ever read one of them. Not because I don't like his short stories, I've just not sat down to read them yet. Honestly though, I pretty much support everything he does because I not only like his writing, but I think he's a great person who deserves more recognition.
I support Annelie Wendeberg on Patreon. And I'd do it with my favorite author Laurie R. King if she started one, or any other author I wanted to keep writing.As an author myself, I know it's tough. Luckily, I'm not trying to support my family on what I earn. But some months I could make more working five hours a week at McDonalds. And I've had books make it as high as #15 in Amazon's online bookstore. I often work 7 days a week to get a book finished, so earnings can be depressing.
It's competitive and tough to be an artist. So if you love an author, support them! And if you are short on cash, at least leave a review. They help so much. Publishers have dropped authors due to a low amount of reviews.
I've never supported an author on Patreon, but I have supported a half dozen youtubers and I'd be open to supporting authors for similar reasons: letting them know that I like their content and appreciate it/them, and also to make clear my hope that they continue to make stuff.
I support a couple of authors on Patreon, as I enjoy getting their work in chapters in rough format. I didn't think of that when I created mine, which is focused less on my writing and more on my blog and social media, all geared around my love for books and sharing that love to readers. I was surprised to see only a few other booktubers over there and several are targeting authors only. That seems crazy to me. My goal is to build a relationship with readers and create for them, not for authors.
I support Kameron Hurley because I love her and she gives a short story per every contribution (even a Patreon collection) and very active with updates including sneak peeks and so on.I used to support NK Jemisin but stopped because she did not provide many content for the lowest contribution. Basically just cat pictures.
I used to support Brian McClellan to pay for some of his books who I had to obtain from some other er....sources because it is not available via Kindle store. Now, apparently his stuff is purchase-able so I just buy his book directly.
My Patreon support are mostly for podcasts, actually.
I've never supported an author except by purchasing their book(s).I do follow a handful of author blogs (very, very few) and with only 1 exception, they all appear to be far from rich (or well off).
They remind me of an Entertainer friend of mine. She tours the world and does gigs with some of the hottest names in R&B. She's been in videos and even on stage with Prince. When you see her, she's almost always glamorous.
She's just as broke as me - more so because her money is sporadic. She has the same bills but doesn't get the benefit of the security I get.
It's like OutKast said:
"I replied that I had been going through
the same things that he had
True, I've got more fans
than the average man
but not enough loot to last me
To the end of the week
I live by the beat
like you live check to check
If you don't move your feet
then I don't eat
so we're like neck and neck"
I think the difference is that these people are living out their dreams. That's what I tell my friend when she feels down. Would you want to trade that in and take a desk job? If no, suck it up and get back on your grind. But I realize she's not raking in the dollars, lol. There's only a few that become JK Rowling. Or Beyonce.
Mod
I do follow a handful of author blogs (very, very few) and with only 1 exception, they all appear to be far from rich (or well of..."
I just came here to say that this post is probably the best thing I've seen on the internet this week.
Same here. I support a couple of Youtube channels and a podcast. It is the only way I know how, as these folks do not sell products or merchandise. Writers, on the other hand, sell books. If a writer has written a book I want to read, I can support them by purchasing their book. I would never support an author on Patreon; they are similar to commission-based sales people as far as I'm concerned. I am a consumer, not a volunteer paying other people's bills. If a writer is holding out one hand, I expect them go give me a book with the other one.
Well YouTubers and podcasters also have advertising and sponsorship as revenue sources, unlike authors. So both have avenues of funding, why would authors be different to those other media?
A lot of those authors are asking for support for the same reason, to provide better content. Many authors on Patreon are doing it to pay for cover design, editing, advertising, etc. I don't think most readers realize how expensive it is to produce a book. And even if it's the best written book in the world, if the author Doesn't have the means to advertise and promote it, it will never get read.
But why should readers have to pay the upfront costs?
Kim wrote: "But why should readers have to pay the upfront costs?"^this
Kim wrote: "But why should readers have to pay the upfront costs?"Agreed.
Kim wrote: "But why should readers have to pay the upfront costs?"I don't mind supporting an author I know I already like. I wouldn't sponsor a new author I've never read. But, if an author I love is trying to put out new material but doesn't have publisher backing, like Tim Pratt, I'm happy to help. And in the case of Patreon, I get short stories in return. Or, if it's a Kickstarter for a new book, I get the book first and sometimes exclusive content. Of course, he's the only author I've backed, and I've always been happy with it.
Mod
Most of the ones I'm following release chapters in advance, which is cool seeing it in advance, or they release exclusive short stories, like Allison said.But they are putting the money they make towards their author business to make better quality work.
Do readers HAVE to pay for that? No, of course not, but some like the extras and the bonuses, and being a part of the creative process. That's who support on Patreon. It isn't for everyone, and I don't know any authors who resent readers who DON'T support them on Patreon. It's just another avenue for authors to be able to support their projects.
Ilona Andrews does a free serial called the Innkeeper Chronicles. She's written 3 so far. Each entry is written on a chapter or less basis and offered free on her site as she writes them. She does not request donations for this. Once the story is 100% finish, she leaves it on the site for a few weeks or so. Then she pulls it, has it professionally edited, illustrated and formatted for printing. She then sales the books in both ebook and POD for readers who want to own it and those who dislike reading serial format.
It's been such a successful venture for her that she sold the omnibus with Subterranean Press. It's a huge and beautiful book with full color illustrations and BOTH author signatures.
I'm always like, "SHUT UP and take my money." I have the POD of the 1st book, ebook of the 2nd & 3rd books and the omnibus.
I love the extras that Ilona Andrews provides and she doesn't push it through patreon.
Kim wrote: "But why should readers have to pay the upfront costs?"Readers don't have to donate. It's not a requirement.
Patreon is for fans who want to help their favorite artist out beyond buying a book. Some authors can only manage one book a year. Traditional authors typically get 10 percent royalty after everything goes to publishers, retailers, and agent. So a reader who buys a $20 book once a year is supporting their favorite author with $2 per year (and then take another 30% off that for end of year taxes). On the other hand, Patreon donations go directly to author.
If your all time favorite author said, 'Look, I'm sorry, I can't do this anymore due to financial difficulties. No more new books.' What would you do? Some readers would shrug, and others would really want to help the author keep writing.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Ilona Andrews does a free serial called the Innkeeper Chronicles. She's written 3 so far. Each entry is written on a chapter or less basis and offered free on her site as she writes them. She does ..."I just started the Kate Daniels series. Loving them! I'll have to check out her website and the Innkeeper Chronicles.
One thing to keep in mind though… she's a NYT bestselling author, so she has a bit more breathing room than your average mid-list author who hasn't been discovered yet.
I was reading a NYT mystery author article. I want to say Val McDermid or Dana Stabebow… I can't remember, but she was saying that if she had been published in today's market, her publisher would have dropped her after the first book. Publishers expect instant success nowadays (i.e. Harry Potter, Hunger Games, etc). This author's books didn't take off until the 7th or 8th book. It used to be that publishers realized that every author takes time to develop a fan base. That's no longer the case. So a lot of authors are turning to Patreon, and other creative ways to keep writing.
Sabrina wrote: "One thing to keep in mind though… she's a NYT bestselling author, so she has a bit more breathing room than your average mid-list author who hasn't been discovered yet.This may be true, but this doesn't mean she has money. She put in her dues and stayed on her grind. I follow her blog and she's just like everyone else. She's managed to get to the point where this is her full-time but my friend is a full-time entertainer...
...people who follow their dreams - especially artists - generally have to sacrifice for said dream.
And while I may have no problem supporting your dream (buy buying items/services/products), I think it gets to be a bit much sometimes when people want you to fund their dream. If you are a writer, you are going to write - even if you have a full time that isn't writing. If you are a singer, a dancer, a painter - all of these things happen with or without additional support. Even if it never sees the light of day.
Maybe I should get on Pateron and have someone fund my dreams. I've always thought it as something that i was personally responsible for but today...I guess it's not.
As I said in a previous post: Readers do not have to donate. There is no requirement. So don't fund your favorite artist's dream, but some fans want to.I don't see what the issue is with some fans wanting to give and others not doing so. The author isn't the IRS demanding that you pay taxes.
Edited to add: Maybe it's a matter of perspective. I don't view my donation to Patreon artists as funding someones fluffy dream. I view it as showing my appreciation and support for an artist's hard work.
Sabrina wrote: "As I said in a previous post: Readers do not have to donate. There is no requirement. So don't fund your favorite artist's dream, but some fans want to.I don't see what the issue is with some fan..."
This thread is for discussing whether we want to or not and what our opinions of the option are. There will be opinions on both sides and both are welcome.
Sarah Anne wrote: "Sabrina wrote: "As I said in a previous post: Readers do not have to donate. There is no requirement. So don't fund your favorite artist's dream, but some fans want to.I don't see what the issue ..."
Opinions and discussions are always welcome, Sarah Anne. But I thought the main thread was asking these questions: So this thread is not to ask why authors use Patreon. Instead I'm curious as to why readers do. Is it just to help get that next book out? Or do you want something more out of it? How many of you do support an author? Have you found any author "better" than others on the platform?
Mod
"Where do you teach?" one of the panelists asked, trying to be polite.
"I...I don't. I'm an author."
"Of course, but I mean what is your primary work?" the professor said. Because of course you can't make enough money to support yourself writing. Of course you can't do the research necessary to write compelling works unless that research is worth something on it's own. And this brilliant, successful, full-time author suddenly got embarrassed, because in the crowd he found himself in, he was basically a fraud. A poor, romantic fool with delusions of worth.
I think it is a very different world people have found themselves in, recently. One where gigs are the most consistent way to get work, and where artists no longer work for "exposure" and a good cause. We need tradespeople more than we need lawyers right now (joke's on me!) and with the internet, people who make cat armor can reach a broad enough market to make a living at it, if you can stay ahead of the noise of millions of people all suddenly self-proclaimed professional whatever-they-do.
So, I think people who sponsor authors (usually for something else they value) are just part of a new wave, like that time we started paying authors well enough they didn't have to have another job.
I don't understand - and currently dislike - the system and/or the process. But since dissenting opinions aren't really welcome, I'll bow out of this one.
Mod
Mrs J, I really liked your thoughts! I wasn't trying to attack you, I don't do patreon either, though I think it's an interesting change.
MrsJoseph wrote: "I don't understand - and currently dislike - the system and/or the process. But since dissenting opinions aren't really welcome, I'll bow out of this one."Seriously? I've taken the opposite side from you on so many discussions over the years. And I have immensely enjoyed our debates. I apologize. It was not my intention to make you feel unwelcome.
I'm trying to understand your viewpoint. Your posts (please correct me if I read them wrong) came across as demeaning towards artists who use Patreon. As if they don't work as hard as other artists. I personally don't find that true at all. It's simply, as you say, a different system and/or process.
Like how some people get into college on scholarships (strangers' generosity), and others pay (or their parents) for college. It doesn’t mean one necessarily works less than the other, or one is more deserving of a degree.
I've never done a patreon or other support of a book other than the Young Explorer's Adventure Guide which is scifi for kids. I support that because I know the authors involved and I think it's a good project.Generally, I'm old school. I don't want a book on commission.
The concept of paying someone for a book before it is done is alien for me. Just write the book! But if it works, go for it. I just don't support it.
Vanessa, I totally get that. I think most authors using it offer more than just the book on commission concept (At least, the ones I've seen), especially for higher investors. Several I follow give their followers behind the scenes access, voting on covers, voting on character names, naming a character after fans, etc.
I give books that I'm reading away on mine (But it's more geared around my reading blog.) and all of the above-mentioned things as well. For readers who support a book through publication (I give weekly sample chapters) they will also receive a signed special-edition copy of the book when it releases.
And I think most authors don't expect most of their readers to want to do Patreon. It's kind of like HP Fans. A lot of them have read the books and bought the movies, but have no interest in Pottermore, the theme park, or other things. That doesn't make them any less likely to buy the new editions, or the next book. But there are some super hard-core fans who are willing to pay a monthly subscription for Pottermore. That's cool too.
David wrote: "Most people realize that becoming a fiction writer is not a great plan if you want to get rich, but I've been surprised at how little money even some "successful" writers make. There are known and well-liked writers with lots of published novels and fanbases who still live on a less-than-middle-class income. "Yeah, it's the rare author who becomes wealthy from writing.
I forget the name of the guy or his novel because it wasn't a genre I read, but I do recall one author mentioning in passing that when a studio optioned his book, he earned more money from that than from all the royalties that book had ever made, and it was a fairly popular book.
"Optioned" is very different from "sold." It just means that a studio has a year or two to start the film. If they don't, then the rights revert back to the author and they can then resell them. Typically an option on a popular book is around $10k. Ten grand seems like a small amount of money for a best-seller.
I've never supported an author with Patreon, but on a somewhat related topic there is an individual who has been using Kickstarter to fund a series of sci-fi and fantasy short story anthologies. I've supported him but I get a direct benefit (a book) from the money I pledge. I've been happy with what he's done so far, as the money he gets helps pay for cover art and "name" authors. I see it as just a new way of doing buisness.
Heidi wrote: "Vanessa, I totally get that. I think most authors using it offer more than just the book on commission concept (At least, the ones I've seen), especially for higher investors. Several I follow gi..."
Hey Heidi!
Wow, I just gotta say, sounds like a lot of work to put out all this extra stuff for the backers, but I guess that's the way it works. You're dedicated. I like the idea of getting to vote for covers, or writing someone in as a minor character.
Vanessa wrote: "Heidi wrote: "Vanessa, I totally get that. I think most authors using it offer more than just the book on commission concept (At least, the ones I've seen), especially for higher investors. Sever..."
Thanks! I do put in a lot of work, but that's what they are "paying" me every month for. Not the book, because they could just wait for it to be published. I want them to feel like they are getting as much value from this as I am. And I think that will be the difference between success/ failure in these types of mediums to create a situation where authors can make a comfortable living while readers still get a good benefit.
I wouldn't be able to do it. I have trouble asking people for favors, nevermind money.And then there's the notion of always having to top the current offers.
Level 1 - $1/month - early access to the book
Level 2 - $3/month - ebook copy before publication
Level 3 - $5/month - signed copy at publication
...
Level 39 - $1000/month - dinner date at a romantic restaurant
Level 40 -$10,000/month - marriage
Hah! Love it, Trike. The author I support used to have something similar at the 10k a month one as sort of a joke. Going along with what others have said. The authors I've seen on Patreon do give a ton of extra to supporters. Annelie Wendeberg, who I support, gives away sketches, shares background research, posts chapter by chapter updates and loves feedback on who readers think committed the crime. She does audio recordings of the chapters, gives away computer wallpaper of book covers, and even has a writing workshop where she reads the first few chapters of a supporters manuscript and offers feedback. It's pretty time-consuming, and she definitely has to put in extra work for it.
Patronage is an ancient practice. Shakespeare and Leonardo da'vinci (and many others) had Patrons. There is a long history of artists not making enough to live off of with out support, but being appreciated enough to be supported by others who recognized its value.
I have seen a few authors with Patreon but if they published books at all I tend to just buy them if at all possible oftentimes going for the "triple dip" ebook/audible(whisper-synced)/physicalI donate to a few web-novelists that do really fine work. None of the ones I donate to or have donated too give anything extra for donating, but I really like their work and would like for them to continue to make more. The only 2 I have on Patreon right now John McCrae and Domajou Kurmaic, I know both survive off their patreon income and have both been improving at their craft. There are many more I have thrown $5 or so on paypal with.
Aaron wrote: "I have seen a few authors with Patreon but if they published books at all I tend to just buy them if at all possible oftentimes going for the "triple dip" ebook/audible(whisper-synced)/physicalI ..."
That's awesome, Aaron!
SciFi and Fantasy Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The Fifth Season (other topics)The Fifth Season (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Annelie Wendeberg (other topics)Laurie R. King (other topics)
Tim Pratt (other topics)
T.A. Pratt (other topics)
Saladin Ahmed (other topics)
More...
I did a bit of digging and found a lot of authors who've we've had as monthly picks, or other authors I consider to be successful also on Patreon. Authors like Saladin Ahmed, Seanan McGuire, Catherynne M. Valente, Kameron Hurley, and Marie Brennan, to name a few. I'm certain there are plenty more.
Now this doesn't mean these authors aren't successful. I guess it goes to show that even well published authors (Seanan Mcguire/Mira Grant has over 100 published works according to GR, yes I know not all of those are novels) still have to pursue alternate means of finance to keep writing.
So this thread is not to ask why authors use Patreon. Instead I'm curious as to why readers do. Is it just to help get that next book out? Or do you want something more out of it? How many of you do support an author? Have you found any author "better" than others on the platform?
And the big caveat to this whole thread. DO NOT POST LINKS TO YOUR OWN PATREON, AUTHOR OR NOT! This is not the Author section, there is to be no self-promotion. You have been warned.