Would you rather live in a world without science...or in a world without religion? Showing 4,601-4,650 of 12,463

[cerebus]

cs wrote: "You will have to get use to this word, you will be called it lot when you start to disagree with some folks here...."
Disagree, no; it's entirely due to your obstinate refusal to answer any questions, something that many have commented on, and none have disputed (from either side of the discussion).

[cerebus]

Travis wrote: "Even if you are an atheist you are 'forcing' that upon a kid...."
I wouldn't entirely agree with that, as an atheist what I 'force' upon my kids is the importance of critical thinking, of digging deeper and not deferring to others when it comes to making your mind up about something. And yes, it frequently comes back to bite me on the arse....

[Tim]

Travis wrote:
"I just thought your use of belief bullying and tone smacked of never having had kids and preaching ( to use an ironic phrase) "."

I don't have kids but I was once a kid myself.

[Gary]

Maria wrote: "I will say that by "stir up" I meant prompt people to express themselves. Not make them mad, not antagonize or criticise. If everyone is honest, they will also admit that when they make a comment, it is meant to elicit a response, good or bad, from others in the discussion."

Well said.

[Gary]

Amani wrote: "darling, what is the use of science and medicine if man is going to die anyway!
science is necessary and essential in our life, but religion is more important, , , , science won't make human stronger than god, and he will be weak forever seeking strength from his religion and creator. "

Assuming there is a god, and which one.

If man is going to die anyway and has been created so weak that he needs strength from religion and creator then he has been created as a slave. A slave bound by manufactured need. A slave forever subservient to an entity so powerful it doesn't even require his help. What a pointless, miserable concept of existence.

Better to die, as long as you don't then end up as a slave in the afterlife too.

[Gary]

Maria wrote: "I don't think I'm doing that. If anyone does, please let me know and I'll leave the group. It was not my intent. "

No there is a difference between being thought provoking and just provoking. As long as you actually read as well as write :-D

[Gary]

Lila wrote: "I'm getting to write a longer answer tI your questions you asked me, Gary, but this one is easy. My oldest daughter is going into eight grade this year and not once so far has she had even one period dedicated to ethics. I love my child, I swear ;), but she and her friends wouldn't even know what a simple definition if that word is."

Thanks for that information, I doubt it is particularly better anywhere else as religion has its talons around ethics, despite most people not even knowing what the basis of their own religion says about morality.

I am lucky I guess. My daughter has grown up without undue religious influence except that which was unavoidable in school and culture, but I have always encouraged her to think and question. She's never been in serious trouble and is popular amongst her friends, my friends and her teachers. As of the moment she has chosen to follow a form of Paganism and I have no problem with that. Her critical facilities are excellent and she actually joined me debating a Muslim apologist last month, and did it well.

Lila wrote: "I sometimes don't wonder why so many kids are homeschooled. "

Homeschooling is truly a scary concept. It is small wonder that critical thinking and general scientific knowledge is slipping in the US. It's advocates love it because it allows unchecked religious and political indoctrination that rivals soviet Russia in its completeness. What a terrifying world that child must grow up in, with a 'loving' but yet still stern and implacable god above who leaves a terrifyingly unchecked satan below who is free to arm legions of homosexuals and liberals with freedom to think, and a world filled with demoniacally possessed people all around. Taught that in "the land of the Free and the Home of the Brave" they are to unthinkingly obey and fear God, and fear Satan.

You know if I wrote about a country so absurd, no one would be able to suspend disbelief!

[Gary]

Hazel wrote: "I think one of the most astounding things I ever heard was the story told to me by a teacher who had just had a parent/teacher evening. She was a infant school teacher, and was discussing a little boy with his mother, and said "he's having trouble with some of the reading activities, do you find he struggles at home when you read together?" And the mother responded "at home? Isn't it your job to do that stuff?" "

I got that beat I think, for a 21st century school anyway. Two teachers discussing a problem child;

Teacher 1: "That kid is so deranged I am really wondering whether that kid needs therapy, or even drugs."

Teacher 2: "Apparently his parents have said that he may be possessed by a demon."

Teacher 1: "Really? They honestly think that?!"

Teacher 2: "Well obviously that isn't it... I know the symptoms of demonic possession and he hasn't got any of them..."

[Gary]

cs wrote: "You will have to get use to this word, you will be called it lot when you start to disagree with some folks here."

Disagreement is not a problem, there are many people who disagree here who also discuss and debate openly.

People get frustrated when you refuse to answer direct questions, then accuse other people of being evasive, then use flippant comments that have nothing to do with the other persons point and then claim they are being "flip", and of course making the same flawed arguments over and over again and becoming insulting and offensive when people see through them.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

[Gary]

Shannon wrote: "Now, regarding the rest of your post ... lots of stuff to think about. Truly. The great thing, I think, is that we get to think ... we can choose to think it through and talk it out and bounce things off one another ... if we choose. :) "

Aye. The truth of honest debate is that it is impossible to change someone else's mind, however you can show them your own and allow them to choose the bits they like so they can, if they want, change their own mind.

Is it too late to get DRM on my thoughts?? :-)

[Gary]

Shannon wrote: "But, I don't think the root cause is religion. It's something else. Until we admit that and work on that, women will still be treated as chattel by some.

You are quite correct. The root cause is going to be a lot of complicity interacting causal pathways, including tradition, the cultural perception of gender difference and the insecurities of the male which stem from a genetic imperative to ensure ones own DNA is perpetuated, not accidentally nurturing the "Cuckoo" in the nest.

Shannon wrote: "Beliefs can and do lead to actions. Patriarchal religions have sponsored these beliefs, at the very least. If those religions disappear, maybe the beliefs regarding treating women as property will also die out."

If you turn that concept on its head, beliefs not only lead to actions, but beliefs also resist change. Look at this thread at how many people have proudly proclaimed that "they will never change their belief". Religion makes people proud of the fact they have shut their minds to change. That is the main reason I dislike faith.

How do you change people's ingrained attitudes to women (or sexuality, or race)? Education. Discussion. Acceptance. Historical evidence would show that none of these attitudes are universal, though they are sadly common.

Faith though is ball and chain, dragging our cultural morality behind us. We can educate people that women are just as capable as men, we can even write a constitution where we say "All people should be treated equally and fairly." Yet as soon as you run into someone with faith they can say "women were created to be subservient to men" and stamp there chained foot and claim the right to never change their mind because it is their "religious right" to be intolerant.

Religion has "placed it's flag" at the summit of morality, claiming it as its own territory, yet a quick examination of the Bible (or Qu'ran) disavows most people of this idea. Even cs has ceded that ones conscience is needed.

However, the general assumption is that religion is morality, Mr Gove (the UK secretary of state) send Bibles to schools for the stated reason of morality, and the certain knowledge that millions of voters around the country also assume the Bible is "good and holy".

Only when belief loses its protected status in general discourse will we be able to turn to somebody pointing at Eve in the bible and say "well, it's an interesting tale, but in the real world women still deserve as much consideration as men".

Shannon wrote: "It was after we started farming, I think, and settling in cities that the male centered gods came into being ...

It does seem to be that way to a certain extent. What we can tell with theological archaeological is that in general the Patriarchal misogynistic religions developed mainly in the deserts of the south east. The first Monotheistic god on record being the Egyptian Aten. It is possible that the source was the "cradle of civilisation" of the Tigris and Euphrates, meaning that the "Father-God" concept was linked to cities, however others have suggested that the harshness of desert life had the influence. (Without being too crude, the "Father" would be the Sun, stern and unforgiving, while the earth bringing life out of her wetness would be the "Mother" below, receiving the power of the sun in a passive pose. It is little wonder that Jesus shares many traits with ancient solar deities.

In the North and west, cities were a long time coming, but that was partially because agriculture and community was a lot less important as food was more plentiful and the need for dominion and organisation was generally replaced with the need for personal space and mutual respect. In such cultures the woman was seen as powerful, from the weavers of fate to war goddesses and the goddesses of fertility and harvest.

It was perhaps inevitable that after the Roman Republic, which had an inclusive polytheistic religion often with specific roles for women, yet who's cities culture reflected the Patriarchal dominance of the cities of Greece and Persia, became the Empire that the idea of a Patriarchal supreme god would eventually take over.

Shannon wrote: "If we're not on the same page on this issue, I'd say we're at least on the same chapter ... or book. I think we're just looking at different ways of stopping some of the bad things that happen. "

Agreed :-)

[Hazel]

Shannon wrote: "Yes. But, she didn't want to teach her girls to fear bugs."

My mam did the same thing with spiders, she is terrified of them, (and so is her mam), but she made every effort to not show this in front of us. She even got to the point that she was able to put a cup over one and put it outside.

[[deleted user]]

Gary wrote: "Homeschooling is truly a scary concept. It is small wonder that critical thinking and general scientific knowledge is slipping in the US. It's advocates love it because it allows unchecked religious and political indoctrination that rivals soviet Russia in its completeness. What a terrifying world that child must grow up in, with a 'loving' but yet still stern and implacable god above who leaves a terrifyingly unchecked satan below who is free to arm legions of homosexuals and liberals with freedom to think, and a world filled with demoniacally possessed people all around. Taught that in "the land of the Free and the Home of the Brave" they are to unthinkingly obey and fear God, and fear Satan.

You know if I wrote about a country so absurd, no one would be able to suspend disbelief! "

And, that's the extreme ....

There are people in the US who homeschool for other reasons and who don't teach their children the above.

I sometimes wonder about going to such extremes ....

A lot of people in the military homeschool ... and, no, not all people in America's military are religious extremists. My friends are currently homeschooling. They're not religious and don't go to church. They've been stationed in a very non-desireable place, in the middle of nowhere, with a lot of gang activity, believe it or not. They have no choice in what school their children will attend. There's just one school system there ... elementary, middle and high school. There's a lot of violence in the schools, aside from all of the bullying and harassment. They started their children in the schools, but, due to all of the violence and drugs, they're currently homeschooling.

That's a real-life example that isn't an extreme.

Then, there are other examples I know of that have nothing to do with religious extremism. Here are a few from real-life. Pregnant girls who are homeschool for a certain amount of time ... late in pregnancy and when their babies are born ... for a few months. Children who have cancer and other horrid diseases are sometimes homeschooled in order to cut risk of infection and because they're too exhausted to be able to go to school and deal with school, busses, changing classes, walking up and down all the stairs .... A rape victim, whose rapist was also at the school, convicted, I might add ... but the judge didn't jail him immediately. He didn't want to ruin his senior year, don't you know. Yeah.

Those are actual examples of students who have been homeschooled and why their families picked that form of education for their children.

[Hazel]

Gary wrote: "Teacher 2: "Well obviously that isn't it... I know the symptoms of demonic possession and he hasn't got any of them..." "

wow... just wow...

[[deleted user]]

Gary wrote: "Teacher 1: "That kid is so deranged I am really wondering whether that kid needs therapy, or even drugs."

Teacher 2: "Apparently his parents have said that he may be possessed by a demon."

Teacher 1: "Really? They honestly think that?!"

Teacher 2: "Well obviously that isn't it... I know the symptoms of demonic possession and he hasn't got any of them..." "

Wow, Gary. You actually heard that conversation in a school? Really?! It makes me wonder about the educational system in the UK.

I've taught for the past 15 years and have never heard a teacher discuss demonic possession.

Fascinating ....

[Gary]

Shannon wrote: "What would happen to them, I wonder, if they didn't carry out these mutilations?"

Interesting point.

I guess the immediate consequences may be social ostracisation, immense peer pressure and perhaps social sanctions or even violence. The parents may experience this, the child or both. Perhaps no one would ever allow the child to be married? Perhaps a "caring" relative would murder the child in an honour killing to save them from sin?

All of the above could be stopped if enough people went "hey, I love my child and I am not going to do that". This is why to the modern secular west people are shocked and appalled at the barbarism of it.

Yet despite most of the west still holding onto beliefs themselves they seem to forget what it is like to truly and honestly believe something.

So to a truly believing parent, the true penalty for failing to perform the mutilation is to potentially lose their child to sin, to not just lose their lives but their very souls, and perhaps condemn them to eternal suffering. If you really believe that, then what is the small cost of a bit of blood, excruciating but comparatively brief pain and then a crippled life of appropriate humility?

[Gary]

cs wrote: "You did troll and offend, twice."

Wasn't I the one who was meant to be hanging around on forums victimising Christians not you?

[[deleted user]]

Gary wrote: "Is it too late to get DRM on my thoughts?? :-) "

What is DRM?

[Hazel]

It is little wonder that Jesus shares many traits with ancient solar deities

or that he was absorbed into the cult of Sol Invictus, as one of the suns many aspects, which incidentally, is the cult Constantine was part of until he converted on his death bed.

[Remy]

In all honesty, I'd rather live without Religion. Science would be so much more advanced than it is now, as at first the Religious believers shunned Scientists and they were left for a couple hundred years before they decided to make another appearance.

Casually hopping into the discussion~

[Shanna]

Shannon wrote: "Gary wrote: "Is it too late to get DRM on my thoughts?? :-) "

What is DRM?"

I can't remember the anacronym but it's a electronic security device program on ebooks to stop purchasers changing the format ie PDF to EPUB and to track piracy.

[Hazel]

Gary wrote: "Shannon wrote: "What would happen to them, I wonder, if they didn't carry out these mutilations?"

Interesting point.

I guess the immediate consequences may be social ostracisation, immense peer p..."

IN Infidel, Ayaan Hirsi Ali,she and her sister are bullied when their schoolmates discover they haven't been cut, the book then goes on to describe when they were cut, and covers the subject quite honestly.

[Hazel]

Shana wrote: "In all honesty, I'd rather live without Religion. Science would be so much more advanced than it is now, as at first the Religious believers shunned Scientists and they were left for a couple hundr..."

welcome, casual is good, we could do with more casual :D

[[deleted user]]

Definitely a world without religion, hands down!

[Gary]

cs wrote: "…not to, about Hawking. While at the same time dropping a hint about how well qualified you were.

I still don't see where or how, perhaps you misunderstood.

Oh and it wasn't "dropping a hint". You attempted an "appeal to authority" by invoking Professor Hawking, I just warned you that perhaps it was a bad idea to do that to somebody who had actually studied cosmology and therefore knew your reference to him was completely erroneous.
cs wrote: "It was not a quote. It was the essence of the book and the conclusion of what the Grand Design was about."

That's your opinion, however you still have not quoted anywhere were Hawking claimed there was infinite time.

cs wrote: "No I was not. I suggested that Hawking’s conclusion about there never was ‘nothing’ before the big bang, because there was always ‘something’, still left room for something or someone to have created the ‘something’; which I suggested could be god."

Well I have already explained why that doesn't work. There was never nothing before the big bang as there was no "before". Time began at the big bang, so you cannot have a time before when time does not exist.

It is possible that you are thinking of some of the potential models of M-Theory which are confusing you, that is not a thing to be ashamed of, M-Theory is substantially difficult to comprehend at this point.

Also, by your very point even if you were not completely misquoting Hawking, the idea that there was "always something" would then mean that there is no point of creation and therefore no need for a creator.

cs wrote: "It reminded me of the Jack the Ripper books. The blurb suggests that the Ripper will be named and the case closed, but by the end of the book we are none the wiser."

Sorry, this is a bit of a jump. Do you mean "The Grand Design"?

Unless I am mistaken, you are saying that his book didn't end with the answer to where the Universe came from? To be honest, I am not surprised. I am sure a successful theory of everything would be big news. The Grand Design was hypothesis and discussion about ideas to explain the universe, but the search isn't nearly over yet. It was also a popular science book rather than a scientific paper which would actually present more technical explanations.

cs wrote: "Do you not think that it could be arrogant to assume that I should not understand Hawking at least the same as you."

Nope. I have studied Hawkings theories in formal education. I responded with a technical rationale why your assertion of his ideas was wrong, including direct quotation which drew the exact opposite conclusion to the one you made. You then responded with a condescending reply that claimed I hadn't understood him without even bothering to explain why.

cs wrote: "I read a lot, like I guess most folks here."

So no scientific qualification at all?

cs wrote: "But, is this yet another hint for us to ask how qualified are you? I did ask you to tell us if you want to but you said no."

No you asked me my job, not my qualification. I have already stated my qualification in response to your flippant comment about "atheists and their philosophy degrees".

cs wrote: "Qualified to some, means trained to others, trained to have only one thought process on a particular subject and because of that, finds it hard sometimes to be objective."

So now you are trying to claim that if someone is more educated on a subject than you they are therefore close-minded? Nice try. That of course would then invalidate your appeal to the authority of Professor Hawking as he is no doubt far more educated than either of us and therefore by your reasoning completely incapable of thinking for himself.

cs wrote: "Yes you are correct. But you have missed the point, most people will feel some sort of guilt if they know what they are doing is wrong."

Nope that is my exact point. You have claimed that you believe that religion influences society with good morals, yet here you clearly claim that our own conscience and sense of guilt is all we need. Hence invalidating your entire point.

I completely agree with you. It explains why modern Christians ignore a lot of the Bible. Unfortunately, some still pay attention to other bigoted parts of the Bible that need to be discarded.

cs wrote: "My father is the Pope. "

So no qualification in Theology either, and I am assuming that you mean metaphorical father or that is a confession I would have liked to listen in on.

Well assuming that religious knowledge is not passed on by DNA (metaphorical or not) then your claim that by being a Catholic you know more about Catholicism than others has no backing.

Many atheists on average know more about religion for the simple fact most of them were brought up as religious and they studied their faith (and others) before abandoning it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/relig...

The survey, by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, found that non-believers and agnostics scored an average of 20.9 out of 32, Jews and Mormons did best among the faithful, averaging 20.5 and 20.3 respectively. Hispanic Catholics scored just 11.6 on average. The faithful overall scored on average 16.5"

"Almost half of Catholics surveyed did not know that their church teaches that the bread and wine used in Communion actually physically becomes the body and blood of Christ.

Now I am not claiming that atheists here or even myself is more knowledgeable on Catholicism, but I without demonstration or qualification I reject your claim that you know more about Catholicism just because you are one.

[Gary]

Travis wrote: "Not really, you, just by being around your child, force a belief system on them.

Even if you are an atheist you are 'forcing' that upon a kid.."

I worried about this too. My solution was (hopefully) to instil the idea of teaching my child to feel confident to question anything told her, by others or by me, and to treat the answer "it just is" with due scepticism. Then I endeavoured to answer anything she asked with reasons, rationale and evidence and then let her make her own mind up.

As it is, it may have worked. She is not an atheist or agnostic, she has chosen neo-paganism and I have not tried to force her to choose different.

[[deleted user]]

Hazel wrote: "Gary wrote: "Shannon wrote: "What would happen to them, I wonder, if they didn't carry out these mutilations?"

Interesting point.

I guess the immediate consequences may be social ostracisation, i..."

I love that book, Hazel. And what a woman! I wish I had even half if the courage she does.

[Gary]

Shannon wrote: "What is DRM?"

Digital Rights Management. Codes that they put into MP3s, Videos and Ebooks to stop them being duplicated.

[Gary]

Lila wrote: "I love that book, Hazel. And what a woman! I wish I had even half if the courage she does."

Argh. Another volume to add to my reading list! I think I am (if you'll excuse the pun) booked up to 2055 now!

[Hazel]

Gary, the Pew forum have an online religious quiz too, its only 15 questions, not 32:

http://features.pewforum.org/quiz/us-...?

I got 93%, after making the wrong choice in one question that I couldn't recall exactly and so had to choose between 2 of the answers.

[[deleted user]]

Travis wrote: "Lila wrote: "Maria wrote: "Lila said:

"And honestly, I'm not so sure you weren't trying to be offensive."

I was not trying to be offensive. It sounded like you meant that your daughter had no id..."

If only. The teenager is not so bad but the two little ones are conspiring to take away the little bit of my sanity I still have. I swear, I brace myself for battle every morning with these two.

[Gary]

Hazel wrote: "I got 93%, after making the wrong choice in one qu..."

Same here, probably the same question :-D

[cerebus]

Gary wrote: "My solution was (hopefully) to instil the idea of teaching my child to feel confident to question anything told her."
And that, in a nutshell, is the best and most important lesson you can teach a child, and at the same time the biggest threat to religion. It doesn't mean she won't choose religion, but it is anathema to the blind faith that religion requires.

[Travis]

Cerebus wrote: "Travis wrote: "Even if you are an atheist you are 'forcing' that upon a kid...."
I wouldn't entirely agree with that, as an atheist what I 'force' upon my kids is the importance of critical thinkin..."

I only used forced in response to what I felt was tim's overdramatic tone.
I don't see whatever jumbled contribution a parent makes to a kid's developing belief system as 'forcing' it upon them.

[Gary]

Shannon wrote: "A lot of people in the military homeschool ... and, no, not all people in America's military are religious extremists.

An interesting point that I hadn't considered (the schooling, not the US military being religious extremists). I am aware that the situation for serving personal and veterans is woefully inadequate, especially in the US.

Plus I can see the point in homeschooling as opposed to sending your child to a school were kids may be packing guns. That is so insane it is almost surreal.


Shannon wrote: "convicted, I might add ... but the judge didn't jail him immediately. He didn't want to ruin his senior year, don't you know. Yeah. "

That's sick.

Shannon wrote: "Those are actual examples of students who have been homeschooled and why their families picked that form of education for their children. "

To be honest I had only heard about it as linked to religious indoctrination but I shall consider myself corrected :-)

[cerebus]

Hazel wrote: "Gary, the Pew forum have an online religious quiz too, its only 15 questions, not 32:
..."
87%, I thought it had repeated one question so didn't read it fully and answered the same as the previous which was worded similarly....my bad.

[Hazel]

Cerebus wrote: "Hazel wrote: "Gary, the Pew forum have an online religious quiz too, its only 15 questions, not 32:
..."
87%, I thought it had repeated one question so didn't read it fully and answered the same as..."

I nearly did that, but the confusion made me reread the question and realise it was a new one.

[Gary]

Shannon wrote: "Wow, Gary. You actually heard that conversation in a school? Really?! It makes me wonder about the educational system in the UK."

Yeah, scared the... the... the... (why does religion have all the best curses?) out of me. I honestly forget occasionally there are people around who believe in such stuff.

I would have reported them, but then what can you do? To be honest expressing a belief is one thing, and strange beliefs may not have any relevance to a teacher's ability. If they started trying to exorcise unruly children that would be a different matter!

[Travis]

Gary wrote: "Travis wrote: "Not really, you, just by being around your child, force a belief system on them.

Even if you are an atheist you are 'forcing' that upon a kid.."

I worried about this too. My solu..."

We've instilled the idea that questioning is okay, respect is not earned automatically and stupid people need to be treated with skepticism in our daughter and while it will help her wade through the dramatic crap of teenager-hood, it's hell when she uses it on us.

Was kind of hoping she'd just use it on the rest of the world and give her parents a break.

[Travis]

Gary wrote: "Shannon wrote: "Wow, Gary. You actually heard that conversation in a school? Really?! It makes me wonder about the educational system in the UK."

Yeah, scared the... the... the... (why does relig..."


'crap' is not a religious term, so that one is safe to use.
I checked in the atheist handbook.

and religions don't have all the best curses. The United Kingdom has that title.

[cerebus]

Travis wrote: "Was kind of hoping she'd just use it on the rest of the world and give her parents a break. ..."
Hah, I remember that thought.....a regular conversation in our house "who taught you that!?" "You did" "oh yeah."

[cerebus]

Gary wrote: "If they started trying to exorcise unruly children that would be a different matter! ..."
Think it doesn't happen?

[Travis]

Cerebus wrote: "Travis wrote: "Was kind of hoping she'd just use it on the rest of the world and give her parents a break. ..."
Hah, I remember that thought.....a regular conversation in our house "who taught you..."

Yeah, hard to lecture a child when the attitude that got her in trouble she got from me.

[Hazel]

Cerebus wrote: "Gary wrote: "If they started trying to exorcise unruly children that would be a different matter! ..."
Think it doesn't happen?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syK0WV...

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/15/wor...

[cHriS]

Shanna wrote: "cs wrote: "My father is the Pope"
At best that makes you illegitimate, not qualified in anything."

Don't tell my mum

[cerebus]

Hazel wrote: "Cerebus wrote: "Gary wrote: "If they started trying to exorcise unruly children that would be a different matter! ..."
Think it doesn't happen?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syK0WV......"
Oh ffs, if I didn't know better I'd think that first link was a hoax....it's the closest I'll ever come to questioning evolution....that such blind stupidly has survived......

[Gary]

Cerebus wrote: "87%, I thought it had repeated one question so didn't read it fully and answered the same as the previous which was worded similarly....my bad."

Bad dog! Get out of the club!

(Sorry)

Just before anyone comments, (I believe) we are posting our results for fun, not to claim how knowledgeable we are. We are well aware that we could be googling answers at the same time, but I for one am not. :-)

I will let my posts speak on my knowledge of religion (or lack thereof ).

[cerebus]

hurray for subtitles!

[Gary]

cs wrote: "Shanna wrote: "cs wrote: "My father is the Pope"
At best that makes you illegitimate, not qualified in anything."

Don't tell my mum"

You'd think she'd have noticed. :-)

[Gary]

Travis wrote: "I don't see whatever jumbled contribution a parent makes to a kid's developing belief system as 'forcing' it upon them."

Well there are examples, Sunday School, baptism, mandatory Church, (some!) home-schooling and outright violence and hatred of some parents if they feel their child is a heretic.