Would you rather live in a world without science...or in a world without religion? Showing 2,801-2,850 of 12,463

[Hazel]

we've covered that cs.

[Hazel]

Indeed Day-Z, we all make mistakes :) I think you'd have got on with Marcus Aurelius

[Shanna]

Who is Day-Z?

[[deleted user]]

She had posted ... but it seems she's deleted her posts.

[Hazel]

I always find that odd...

[Shanna]

Hazel wrote: "I always find that odd..."

Me too...

[Mohamed]

I personally think its not possible to have a world without either of them.

[Hazel]

you're probably right, at least for the forseeable, Mohamed.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

American Native Americans sometimes did war for fun! Sometime they played a war game thing called 'counting coup'. If they touched an enemy with their weapon, they won, and everybody went home. When they encountered white people, some natives lost their lives because the white people didn't understand it was a coup game.

Otherwise, I think war was over stealing women and children and hunting without asking permission. They weren't exactly property owners, but they were territorial.

I'm probably stating the obvious, but I felt like filling in the blank, as far as I remember from books on the subject.

They were religious, but I can't recall reading about a single religious war. I think because mostly they believed they each had a personal helping spirit who could be capricious, and each spirit had the choice of who they wanted, not the person.

[Epic]

Until a few centuries ago, we lived in a world without science and it was hell.

[Jennifer]

world without science..there is no world without God..this is coming from a science lover and major.....

[Hazel]

the world already exists without god, as far as the evidence shows.

[Xdyj]

Shannon wrote: "I feel the same way, Hazel, regarding cognitive dissonance. My mind went there as I typed the post. I also thought about all of the "isms" ... racism, sexism, etc.... However, much as I can't st..."

I think on one hand we should have a state that stays clean of people's religion or beliefs so that one would not suffer legal consequence only for being a bigot or thinking or saying hateful stuff, while on the other hand in civil society we can actively argue against bigotry and refuse to tolerate intolerance, just like how we're dealing with new Nazis today.

[Jennifer]

Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.

Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."

Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."

The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter....atheist, Marilyn Adamson

[Hazel]

I'll allow a physicist address that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS...

[Deepak]

I pray everyday that religion vanishes from this world ;)

[Paul]

Deepak wrote: "I pray everyday that religion vanishes from this world ;)"
More and more people do. It's a rapidly growing club.

[Travis]

To quote Ricky Gervais:

"I'd like to thank God for making me an atheist."

[[deleted user]]

Paul wrote: "Deepak wrote: "I pray everyday that religion vanishes from this world ;)"
More and more people do. It's a rapidly growing club."

These statements are a bit ironic. Right? You pray that religion vanishes .... More and more people do each day .... To whom do you and they pray?

Sigh ...

[Deepak]

Shannon wrote: "Paul wrote: "Deepak wrote: "I pray everyday that religion vanishes from this world ;)"
More and more people do. It's a rapidly growing club."

These statements are a bit ironic. Right? You pray t..."

Punk Intended !!

[Paul]

Shannon wrote: "These statements are a bit ironic. Right? You pray that religion vanishes .... More and more people do each day .... To whom do you and they pray?

Sigh ... "

:)

I can't remember who said this originally, "Surely only an evil entity would like or even tolerate people worshipping it".

[Hazel]

Shannon wrote: "Paul wrote: "Deepak wrote: "I pray everyday that religion vanishes from this world ;)"
More and more people do. It's a rapidly growing club."

These statements are a bit ironic. Right? You pray t..."

the irony is surely the point, Shannon.

Like from Douglas Adams in Life, The Universe and Everything: "He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

: D

[[deleted user]]

Mmmm....

I wonder ...

For those who would love for religion to be eradicated, or, at the very least, for religion to go poof and never be heard from again ....

How will the world be so different, do you think? How is it that the world would be so much better?

Oh, do me a favor and hold the knee-jerk reactions, please. Let's truly think this through.

There will still be wars ... and lots of them.

There will still be "isms" ... racism, sexism, ageism ....

There will still be bullying and harassment.

There will still be fights in the school yard.

There will still be disease.

Drug abuse.

Alcoholism.

Rape.

Murder.

There will still be economic woes. Greece will still be Greece. Americans will still be broken by debt. Etc....

There will still be a ridiculous amount of pollution and waste and the extinction of certain species.

What, truly, will be so different? No honor killings? Hmmm.... Maybe. Maybe not. People have assaulted and murdered others over sex since the beginning of time. Here's a word ... cockold ... but, of course, that's a bit different ... it has nothing to do with religion, but it is somewhat different (in some cases) from today's honor killings. Ultimately, I suppose many honor killings would be averted.

Will there still be sexual mutilation? Yeah, I'm pretty sure that will still happen.

Will the Israeli/Palestinian conflict come to an end? Oops! Just had to pick myself up off the floor. I was laughing so hard I fell off the sofa. No, that conflict will continue. Take the religion away and you still have the land ... and the insult.

Now, there are some wars and hostilities (see Shana's list) that would end as a result. Right? I mean, yes, some would. Some, well, there's still the land and there's still the fight for power. So, ultimately, I can't say that all of those conflicts would resolve themselves.

Hmmmm.... Will hypocrisy end? Hypocrisy was brought up in former posts. Well, will there still be politicians? Will there still be people who say, for example, that honesty means everything to them but who will lie through their teeth if given a chance? Now, granted, you wouldn't have religious hypocrites, but I'm fairly certain that hypocrisy won't go poof.

Ahh.... The delusional. All of those poor people who believe in something that isn't real. I mean, really, if people stopped believing in, how has God been referred to on this thread ... an imaginary friend ... the big guy in the sky ... people would no longer believe in things that aren't true. Right? No one will believe ... it's just one drink. Right? He hasn't called for five days, but I'm sure he really loves me. Right? I know the chances are a billion to one, but I bet I'll win the lottery. (Guilty.) Right?

I wonder ....

I mean, it's one thing to say, man, the world would be so much better without religion ... I so hope there will be a day when no one believes. It's another thing to answer ... why .... How exactly will the world be better?

You'll still have a woman who is diagnosed with cancer. You'll still have a man who is left by his wife ... and has three children to raise on his own. You'll still have those with a ton of money and those who are starving. You'll still have ... everything we have today.

Perhaps ... perhaps, you'd have less of it. But, it would all be there, in force. One thing that would be lacking ... comfort that faith has been known to give people.

And, whether or not we agree with that faith, is it really for us to turn to the woman or man who had their lives turned upside down and say ... oh, but ... don't pray ... don't have any faith ... because ... it's based in a lie, don't you know ... poor delusional thing ... Really, sir ... really, miss ... your life will be SO much better if you face this on your own ... knowing there is no God ... no Great Spirit ... no meaning to life other than life itself ....

Why would we want to do that exactly?

And, let's not kid ourselves. That's exactly what would happen.

There's the big idea ... wouldn't life be grand if only people stopped being religious. But, the ultimate reality is ... we need to take it down to one person ... one .... That's what happens when an idea moves from idea to practice. You need to make it practical. Right? Take it down to the woman whose husband was just shot and killed by a drug dealer (a week before he retired) ... true story in my state ... and tell her ... life would be so much better if you didn't turn to faith and God ... Or, better yet, my life would be so much better if you didn't pray or believe. Oh, ouch! Really?

Exactly how is it ... exactly why is it ... that our lives would be so much better if people didn't believe?

Huh? I wonder ....

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Civil rights for women and homosexuals might have occurred a hundred years sooner.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Child abuse might have been recognized legally sooner.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

No Spanish inquisition, meaning Jews and women could stop worrying about being burned at the stake. And cats, too.

[Xdyj]

Forced marriage & honor killing did happen in secular societies. afaik several high-profile cases of these happened in China as late as the 1930s. On the other hand, I think I've seen a poll somewhere that today ppl living in highly religious countries in Africa & west and south Asia are the most likely to see them as justifiable (often by their religion).

Imo a difference btw most secular ideologies & certain organized religious might be that the latter often claim themselves to be unchangable b/c they're divinely inspired. So, even if both are guilty of those isms, religious ones might need more time& effort to get rid of them. Without the more awful kinds of religions, individuals will still do bad things for greed or for being a psychopath, but the community will not honor them later for their service to god.

Also, there are indeed atheists in foxholes.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

THe American Natives, and indigenous people all over the world might still be in charge of their own affairs, or may have been helped more rather than eradicated in the name of saving them.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

The superiority of a lot of aristocrats who were given their superiority by being relatives of gods might have been questioned sooner, and maybe the Middle Ages might not have lasted so long.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

The superior education the ancient Greeks were exploring and beginning to promulgate might not have been buried by the Christians and instead the world might have had the science to put men on the moon by 1500 ad instead of 1968. After all, the Greeks invented the math that led to discovering the circumference of the earth, information which the Christians buried for 1500 years because of their insistence on Biblical 'science.'

[[deleted user]]

April the Cheshire Meow wrote: "Civil rights for women and homosexuals might have occurred a hundred years sooner."

I appreciate your ideas, ATCM. But, I'm talking about now. People, today, on this thread, hope for a world without religion. Okay.

So .... What would be different? How would the world be better? Today. Tomorrow.

We have no control over our past. Should we acknowledge the truth of our history. Oh, yes! But, eradicating religion now will do nothing about, for example, the Inquisition that happened hundreds and hundreds of years ago. Nothing.

So, for those who truly hope for a world in which religion and spirituality do not exist, I ask ... how would our lives be so different and so much better ...?

Let's take it out of the realm of ideas and make it practical. The lives of the people who hope to live in a world without religion will be better because ...? Telling someone who is going through tragedy and trauma that they shouldn't believe (...and that's what a world without religion would do) would make our lives better ... how?

[cHriS]

Paul wrote: "Shannon wrote: "These statements are a bit ironic. Right? You pray that religion vanishes .... More and more people do each day .... To whom do you and they pray?

Sigh ... "

:)

I can't remember ..."

.....so what would the opposite of an evil entity like or even tolerate?

[cHriS]

April the Cheshire Meow wrote: "THe American Natives, and indigenous people all over the world might still be in charge of their own affairs, or may have been helped more rather than eradicated in the name of saving them."

Shannon wrote: "Mmmm....

I wonder ...

For those who would love for religion to be eradicated, or, at the very least, for religion to go poof and never be heard from again ....

How will the world be so differen..."

(You mean Native Americans).

There would be no atheists

[Hazel]

indeed, from a certain point of view, there'd be no atheists, but there would be no theists either, as the need for either label would be gone.

[[deleted user]]

Is that all that would be different? No theists and no atheists?

Hmmm....

If some get their wish and religion goes poof, how will the world be different and how will our lives be better? In general. And, more specifically, how will, for example, telling someone who just lost a loved one not to seek comfort in faith or the belief that s/he will see that loved one again make our lives so much better.

[cHriS]

Those who believe God exists even without religion would still have their belief, and would not have atheists demanding proof, since atheists would no longer exist.

Atheists are unable to seperate religion from god and so would vanish (go poof to quote Shannon) along with religion.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

More money for science. Smarter politicians (might not be good, on second thought). Flying cars right now, that run on green fuels. Cats and dogs and etc. that think and talk. End of cancer due to stem cell research.

[cHriS]

Shannon wrote: "Is that all that would be different? No theists and no atheists?

Hmmm....

If some get their wish and religion goes poof, how will the world be different and how will our lives be better? In g..."

Religion going would make no difference because there would still be a belief in God.

If you ment that religion and the belief in god went then you would be left with a world where the survival of the fittest ruled.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Women free to pick anything they want to do because of test tube babies and birth control for all who want it without being terrified into keeping babies they don't want.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

High school education that is equal to a college education, because there is no catering to the lowest common denominator of religious sensibilities.

[Neha]

If you had to choose I would choose science over religion because science by its very description is verifiable fact, whereas religion is dependant entirely on the faith of an individual, and therefore its effect is spread only over those who believe, science however, has changed the world

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Neha wrote: "If you had to choose I would choose science over religion because science by its very description is verifiable fact, whereas religion is dependant entirely on the faith of an individual, and there..."

You got it right.

[Hazel]

cs wrote: "Those who believe God exists even without religion would still have their belief, and would not have atheists demanding proof, since atheists would no longer exist.

Atheists are unable to seper..."

if people declared a belief in god, there would be atheists, as they would refute that claim. You can't state there would be no atheists, so people can believe in god with no-one questioning it, if all you[ve removed is the institutions of religion not the beliefs that make religion.

I've given you the definitions of religion before cs, and the most basic is "a belief in a higher power or being". Thus belief in god is by itself religion, its not institutionalised religion, but it is religion:

religion

Pronunciation: /rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n/
noun
[mass noun]
- the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods
- [count noun] a particular system of faith and worship:
the world’s great religions
- [count noun] a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion:
consumerism is the new religion from the oxford english dictionary.

You can claim to have god exist without religion as much as you like, but the second someone believes in that god, it becomes religion. You can have the concept of god without the need for belief, but if someone believes then its religion. The existence of god doesn't need religion, but the existence of belief in god creates religion, even if its personal and your own little concept of god.

Basically, as religion includes at its very core, simply believing in god, forget the pomp and ritual and silly hats, just the belief in any sort of god, then removing religion, by default, involves the removal or the loss of belief in god, thus there would be no theists, and no atheists. But if someone believes in god, they're religious, religion still exists, so do theists, and so do atheists. Atheism isn't the refuting of religion, its the refuting of the claim that god exists. If there are people making the claim, there will be people refuting it.

[edit] and re-reading that, the 2nd to last paragraph is the same thing rephrased 3 times, but hey, why say something once when 3 times will do :P

[Hazel]

cs wrote: "survival of the fittest"

can you tell me what you think that means?

[cHriS]

Hazel wrote: "cs wrote: "survival of the fittest"

can you tell me what you think that means?"

I know what it means.

[Hazel]

cs wrote: "Hazel wrote: "cs wrote: "survival of the fittest"

can you tell me what you think that means?"

I know what it means."

wow, do you ever just answer the question being asked? Go on then, what does it mean?

[[deleted user]]

Flying cars and cats and dogs that talk??

Birth control?? Granted, I guess I'm lucky, living in America. Heck, we can get condoms for free if we want. I wonder .... If women in other countries aren't allowed to use birth control, would doing away with religion change that? Or, do they live in countries where having many offspring is favored ... in order to work the land, etc...? I suppose it depends.

Regarding ... "High school education that is equal to a college education, because there is no catering to the lowest common denominator of religious sensibilities," ... well, I have to say I'm perplexed. When you say catering to the lowest common denominator, do you mean students who are on IEP's? Who have dyslexia? Who have other learning disabilities? Who have low IQ's? If so, speaking as an educator, I'm not sure that mainstreaming in education had much to do with religion. In fact, I'm positive religion had nothing to do with it. Of course, maybe you mean something else. What do you mean by the lowest common denominator? I certainly hope you're not referring to children. No, I'm sure you're not. But, I remain baffled.

I'm still waiting .... I am curious as to how the world would be such a different and better place without people of faith. I'll continue to wait.

[cHriS]

It has a few meanings. I am using it in the context:

'survival of those who are better equipped for surviving'

Those who are the least burden on society.

[Hazel]

I really don't think I would want to live in America

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/...