Angels & Demons
discussion
Would you rather live in a world without science...or in a world without religion?
Mickey wrote: "Kieran wrote: "Those are just a couple of basic points as well, religion makes many feel at home and comfortable, it gives them something to believe in, when they feel hopeless and helpless. Scienc..."
Haha, definitely too much science fiction! (if there is such a thing..) but I get where you're coming from, mine was just a basic point which I know many religious people feel, and is a main factor in drawing people to religion.
Also, though it is possible that science could inspire what religion has done, its almost impossible to prove if that's true, and religion has inspired a lot, even in the field of science. I mean, look at Darwin, and Galileo, they both tried finding God, or at least evidence of God (admittedly in two different fields), and got two of the greatest scientific discoveries of all time.
This question is a lot more complex when you really start to look into the finer details.
Haha, definitely too much science fiction! (if there is such a thing..) but I get where you're coming from, mine was just a basic point which I know many religious people feel, and is a main factor in drawing people to religion.
Also, though it is possible that science could inspire what religion has done, its almost impossible to prove if that's true, and religion has inspired a lot, even in the field of science. I mean, look at Darwin, and Galileo, they both tried finding God, or at least evidence of God (admittedly in two different fields), and got two of the greatest scientific discoveries of all time.
This question is a lot more complex when you really start to look into the finer details.
I'm an atheist, so everything in the whole wide world is enough. We've won the cosmic lottery. To want more than that seems kind of greedy and ungrateful.For me, religion was mankind's security blanket, something to get us through the scary parts until we were ready to grow up and start dealing with the world.
and I think it's time we put the blanket down. It's time to be grown ups.
I know that the world is a tough place and people need something to get them through, and if it stopped there, I'd be fine.
It's the making the rest of us follow their rules that bothers me.
Travis wrote: "I'm an atheist, so everything in the whole wide world is enough. We've won the cosmic lottery. To want more than that seems kind of greedy and ungrateful.For me, religion was mankind's security b..."
How believing in Santa Claus can help someone to live better? It's just deceiving oneself.
It's the making the rest of us follow their rules that bothers me. This is what bugs me too. If you want to be religious, fine. But keep it at home and stop trying to force other people to follow your beliefs (regardless of what they are or how right you think you are).
Elentarri wrote: "It's the making the rest of us follow their rules that bothers me. This is what bugs me too. If you want to be religious, fine. But keep it at home and stop trying to force other people to foll..."
Especially as the bible has been so edited and cherry picked it's almost absurd when I'm told we must do what it says, it's the word of god.
They don't follow half their holy manual, but I'm supposed to...?
Danny wrote: "Travis wrote: "I'm an atheist, so everything in the whole wide world is enough. We've won the cosmic lottery. To want more than that seems kind of greedy and ungrateful.For me, religion was manki..."
If they were following Santa, I wouldn't mind.
He's a nice guy. Gave me some cool action figures when I was 11.
But, that god fellow...nothing but trouble.
Being a Buddhist my belief in religion do not clash with my science education. I live a life of non contradictions and do not have to choose.
Travis wrote: "If they were following Santa, I wouldn't mind. He's a nice guy...."lollll But what if they were knocking at your door with Santa Watchtower mag in their hands and told you to become one of Santa's reindeers? :p
I'm joking, but all their beliefs seem as much ridiculous to me. And that they say publicly that my non-belief will destroy the country, that's too much.
As someone said in another thread, "One person who claims he saw a ghost is deranged, but millions who claim they believe in angels? That's a legitimate religious movement."
The more they are, the more they feel strong and entitled to tell us to follow Santa's path.
a world without the relgion... a one world order..
Which is worse, someone who believes in something or someone who believes in nothing.........
Danny wrote: "Travis wrote: "If they were following Santa, I wouldn't mind. He's a nice guy...."lollll But what if they were knocking at your door with Santa Watchtower mag in their hands and told you to becom..."
I don't mind beliefs. It's forcing those beliefs on others that causes all the trouble.
If you keep it to yourself, you're just a mild kook.
I don't go after alot of odd beliefs because the followers of Santa, aliens and Bigfoot etc aren't using those beliefs to change the law or as an excuse to deny people rights.
If Santa comes out as being against gay marriage, then we can talk.
cHriS wrote: "Which is worse, someone who believes in something or someone who believes in nothing........."Are we equating not believing in god as the same as believing in nothing...?
Sonu wrote: "a world without the relgion... a one world order.."Who said that we believe in nothing? I believe in myself, in the world, in love, in my lover,...
But I don't need a Big Daddy sitting on a cloud and watching down if I'm a good boy.
Travis wrote: "cHriS wrote: "Which is worse, someone who believes in something or someone who believes in nothing........."Are we equating not believing in god as the same as believing in nothing...?"
just believing..........
Mickey wrote: "Kieran wrote: "Those are just a couple of basic points as well, religion makes many feel at home and comfortable, it gives them something to believe in, when they feel hopeless and helpless. Scienc..."According to Kurzweil (
Ray Kurzweil, what you think is S-F now will be reality soon. So if your "soul" is in an eternal machine will you still be human? And would the world "faith" mean something then?
Danielle wrote: "So if your "soul" is in an eternal machine will you still be human? And would the world "faith" mean something then? ."An interesting question or questions. One thing seems to lead to another, from not needing hope from religion to machines. I am also not familure with Ray Kurtzweil's writings, in future perhaps someday.
I would not consider myself as human. I would define human as a biologic being with a certain DNA pattern. I would consider myself as a machine with a soul.
I define a soul as the electrical/biological patterens that make up the human mind. In hopes that such patterns can be duplicated/downloaded in a machine. As for the sensory inputs of hearing, touching, speaking, tasting, smelling and seeing could be duplicated as well. As for shaving and taking a morning dump, I could do without :) Welcome to the Matrix.
I have faith in nothing, disappointments would be kept to a minimum.
Belief is believing in something in which all the facts are not there.
I am still hoping in the crackpot scientist for a cure to aging....
Wait... Does hope and faith have some connections? Ok, I have a slim hope that some crackpot scientist comes up for a cure for aging :)
Mickey wrote: "Does hope and faith have some connections?..."People who hope that something happens are not sure that it will happen. Those who have faith in the happening of something have hope against all hopes; they are convinced that it will happen.
Danny wrote: "Mickey wrote: "Does hope and faith have some connections?..."People who hope that something happens are not sure that it will happen. Those who have faith in the happening of something have hope ..."
I Like this part,
"People who hope that something happens are not sure that it will happen."
Now my brain has to think about this part, my brain is already hurting :)
"Those who have faith in the happening of something have hope against all hopes; they are convinced that it will happen."
So I have "hope" that some crackpot will come up for a cure for aging :)
Thanks!
Mickey wrote: "Danny wrote: "Mickey wrote: "Does hope and faith have some connections?..."People who hope that something happens are not sure that it will happen. Those who have faith in the happening of someth..."
Would you really want an anti-aging process thought up by a crackpot?
Maybe you should hold out for the one created by a competent scientist or someone who went to medical school.
Less chance of mutating into a monster or ending up as a brain in a jar that way.
Travis "Would you really want an anti-aging process thought up by a crackpot?Maybe you should hold out for the one created by a competent scientist or someone who went to medical school.
Less chance of mutating into a monster or ending up as a brain in a jar that way. "
As one gets older, beggars cannot be choosy. Does remind me of that comedic Steve Martin movie, Man with two brains or some thing like that.
Is it better to be a living monster OR dead? Hmmm...
I wish no harm to anyone, so death might be better. However, I might choose a lesser quality of life and be alive over death.
But again, I am having some real hope, like in twenty years I will probably need one of those driverless google cars.
Danny wrote: "Those who have faith in the happening of something have hope against all hopes; they are convinced that it will happen. "Ok, I think I can see it now, like the Christian Belief in the Rapture Or second coming.
One thing leads to another.
When I use to be Christian in my youth, now an Athiest. I had this odd little book. The New Money System: When Your Money Fails. I still have it.
It was about 666 the beast and the new money. Almost every thing one buys today has the mark of the Beast - 666. It is embedded into the UPC bar code. Thoose end and middle bars represents the number 6.
It took a long time to shake off that nonscence.
Christianity and science are not mutually exclusive. To live in a world with only one or the other, would be to live in an incomplete world with only half-truths. Angels and Demons does not contradict this.
Mickey wrote: "Danny wrote: "Mickey wrote: "Does hope and faith have some connections?..."People who hope that something happens are not sure that it will happen. Those who have faith in the happening of someth..."
Sure! We'll live longer and longer. Maybe this will not be waters of youth or a magic sort of remedy that you drink to live eternally, but we are about to find a vaccine against cancer. And there will be other big discoveries of that sort more often and fast than in the past because scientists are better equipped than they have ever been.
You are right to hope. :)
In my opinion religion is really another explanation of Science. If you think about it all religion takes on questions we try to answer in science.
Marc wrote: "In my opinion religion is really another explanation of Science. If you think about it all religion takes on questions we try to answer in science."Yes, but it answers those questions with 'god did it', 'Because' and 'Mysterious ways', while science tries for actual answers.
Mickey wrote: "Danny wrote: "Those who have faith in the happening of something have hope against all hopes; they are convinced that it will happen. "Ok, I think I can see it now, like the Christian Belief in t..."
Hadn't heard that one before. How'd the Satanists sneak that past the Illuminati?
While not a believer, I do enjoy a good, weird conspiracy theory.
Mickey wrote: "Travis "Would you really want an anti-aging process thought up by a crackpot?Maybe you should hold out for the one created by a competent scientist or someone who went to medical school.
Less chan..."
And we can use the driverless cars to escape the 'Damned dirty apes' that will be ruling the Earth by then.
Or possibly the Robots.
I get a lot of my info on the future from netflix, so it's not an exact science.
This is the theme of the amazing book, "A Canticle for Leibowitz" by Walter Miller. If you want to see what a terrific writer can do with this theme, take a look.
Henderson wrote: "This is the theme of the amazing book, "A Canticle for Leibowitz" by Walter Miller. If you want to see what a terrific writer can do with this theme, take a look."I had it on my "To-Read" shelf for a long time. And I even have it in ebook. I should read it soon.
Henderson wrote: "This is the theme of the amazing book, "A Canticle for Leibowitz" by Walter Miller. If you want to see what a terrific writer can do with this theme, take a look."Good book. I second the recomendation.
Maybe this could interest you since it's about the interaction between science and religion:http://brighterbrains.org/articles/en...
Travis wrote: "Hadn't heard that one before. How'd the Satanists sneak that past the Illuminati?While not a believer, I do enjoy a good, weird conspiracy theory. "
It is indeed a weird one :)
The way I would put it is that religion and ethics are mutually exclusive, you don't need one to practice the other, and if you posit that science is a religion(by definition 'A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe') you are merely choosing your religion as science. I think there are two many spear-headed facts in most popularized religions that directly oppose what we know to be true in science to accept both as factual. The only way that is reasonable is if you are looking for solace in the unknown, in which case some faith might be useful.
That being said, I don't think you could get rid of one without the other.
Nick wrote: "The way I would put it is that religion and ethics are mutually exclusive, you don't need one to practice the other, and if you posit that science is a religion(by definition 'A set of beliefs conc..."Travis wrote: "Marc wrote: "In my opinion religion is really another explanation of Science. If you think about it all religion takes on questions we try to answer in science."
Yes, but it answers those question..."
True but isn't "god did it" etc. just a hypothesis in the scientific method. You bring up good points Nick.
Marc wrote: "Nick wrote: "The way I would put it is that religion and ethics are mutually exclusive, you don't need one to practice the other, and if you posit that science is a religion(by definition 'A set of..."No 'god did it' is not a scientific hypothesis.
A world without religion would be a better world.A world without Science would be a dark, scary place...
A world without frothing at the mouth fanatics of any variety would be nice.
Elentarri wrote: "A world without frothing at the mouth fanatics of any variety would be nice."lolll I agree.
Science is inevitable, religion is faith and government. I could live without religion.
Religion is all about following rules........ much like science.
cHriS wrote: "Religion is all about following rules........ much like science."Which scientific rules are you speaking about?
cHriS wrote: "Religion is all about following rules........ much like science."Which is why we still practice slavery, stone gays, have outlawed figs and working on the sabbath is a death penalty offense.
religion is all about the rules....
Wow......religion is not the only thing that has rules...society has a set of rules...and on and on!
Travis wrote: "cHriS wrote: "much like sciences..."My question was about what you call science rules? You said "much like sciences".
Personally I am also an atheist as many who commented are. I really think that religion has no place in today's world, as science can explain and help us to understand our universe. Religion was relevant when we didn't have science to explain things like solar eclipses, for example, and people needed to assuage their fears, therefore the church stepped in to help people to not be afraid. Unfortunately, religion has a long history of being used against people, and a long history of being the cause of so many war-related issues. If religion was gone, we would have a better world.
Lauraine wrote: "Personally I am also an atheist as many who commented are. I really think that religion has no place in today's world, as science can explain and help us to understand our universe. Religion was re..."I completely agree with your comment. :)
religion was created to divide people. to scare them from doing a lot of things. it would be preferable to live in a world without religion.
I have no words for either of you.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
The Devil's Collection: A Cynic's Dictionary (other topics)
Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties (other topics)
God Hates You, Hate Him Back: Making Sense of the Bible (other topics)
The New Money System: When Your Money Fails (other topics)
More...
Wendy Joyce (other topics)
Stephen King (other topics)
Wendy Joyce (other topics)
Wendy Joyce (other topics)
More...
Books mentioned in this topic
Vector Calculus (other topics)The Devil's Collection: A Cynic's Dictionary (other topics)
Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties (other topics)
God Hates You, Hate Him Back: Making Sense of the Bible (other topics)
The New Money System: When Your Money Fails (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Ray Kurzweil (other topics)Wendy Joyce (other topics)
Stephen King (other topics)
Wendy Joyce (other topics)
Wendy Joyce (other topics)
More...
As an athiest also, Science can also provide hope for the hopeless and helpless. This helpless person is hoping some scientist will come up with a cure for aging :)
One does not need religion to have hope. Perhaps someday just before passing away, my soul will be download into the master mainframe where I can live forever (at least as long the mainframe is plugged in).
I know, I have been reading too much science fiction... Way too much science fiction.