Would you rather live in a world without science...or in a world without religion? Showing 11,651-11,700 of 12,463

[Travis]

Tangina wrote: "Jean wrote: "I think we definitely need both. As a religious girl, I have a strong faith in Deity and in His creations...science exists to prove His existence, for all things in this world and out..."

People keep saying that all things point to god, and yet there's no actual proof of god.

and if anything, science disproves god, or at best proves he doesn't like us, as most of the world he designed is set up to kill us.

There seems to be a disconnect here.

[Mickey]

Tangina wrote: "I wonder when some one says religious people should be open minded. I think that street goes two ways. How ever Religion gives us structure, boundary's, something bigger then our selves to love. I know God/Jesus Loves me. That means more to me the anyone opinion."

@WENDY!
Remember your response to my statement (Mickey)?
They feel secure that a kind loving God looks over them. 
At the risk of restarting a Holy War [pun intended], the Old Testament is all about God, but a kind and loving God?


My restatement of a past post.
"I believe the reason religion hangs on is because people want to feel secure. They feel secure that a kind loving God looks over them. They do not have to fear death as much. Those same people feel secure in that they want their guns for protection. They feel more secure in have more money and wanting lower taxes. They feel secure in having a strong family. Do you not see a patern here that religion is the backbone of feeling secure. Take away religion and their world will be shaken badly.

It does not matter what one says against the existence of a God, many will refuse to accept it because of fear that their world will fall apart. "

I rest my case :)

[Maria]

Totally agree, Mickey. How else can they justify the fact that their loved ones are gone forever, babies, fathers, grandmas etc. and they won't all meet up for a big family reunion in heaven one day?

[Gordon]

Tangina wrote: "I wonder when some one says religious people should be open minded. I think that street goes two ways. How ever Religion gives us structure, boundary's, something bigger then our selves to love. ..."

I agree with u but I don't think the street from the religious side has been historically, extremely one-way. Science by definition IS open minded, I believe that's why Wendy had some long discussions with others about 'elitism', that's not a fair 'generalization'(as most aren't), because u are participating in the point of a scientific method of thought, like it or not, reproducing the same results again & again under the same circumstances no matter who does it. I don't know what u do Wendy or anyone else or what peeps have written 'officially' but the majority participate in science in about all professions, like it or not: it can be social science & the reaction of children & adults to stimuli like PTSD, economic science regarding the difference between liquid equity or gross/net economy of worth vs. the illusion of $$ on stock predictions, prospectus, & estimations on hedge funds or just bad luck working in a shady ponzi(I'll go to Vegas to gamble), or the science I use every time I read blood tests &/or perform procedures, so many more, u get the point.

There are so many 'armchair science experts' because that makes science reliable & progressive (in a + or - way is debatable in area's). Joe Shmoe can do ABC & get XYZ every time, religion is based on 'FAITH', an entirely diff. mind process to even grasp for some. Religion is also NOT a two way street, X religion says follow this or suffer the consequences. There are still cultures TODAY burning people at the stake or killing them for non-belief or belonging to a sect, think Shia vs. Sunni? Now, not 1,000 years ago, we got serious problems with religion, I know u love Jesus but keep it to urself if ur in the middle east if u want to see the next sunrise, that's no joke, my sis did reporting in the 'nice areas'

Love the 'security' analogy Mickey, & as many said, U don't need verbalization of spiritual beliefs to ensure acceptance or belief there is a greater power out there, I think it/he/she (surprised everyone openly just said 'he' lol) may just want us to live life, on that note, I'll go play video games, JK

Someone start a thread on the subconscious need for most Americans to always work to bring meaning to their life?! As taboo as religion can get as a discussion subject, I enjoy this thread & viewpoints

[Elaine]

I have very much enjoyed reading the comments in this thread. It appears to me, however, that several non-atheists make a blanket statement (e.g. the Bible is 100% true) and then we never hear back from them. Tangina wrote about being open-minded. I believe she was implying that atheists are not open-minded. If so, please comment on some of the points made.

[Carol]

I believe the Bible is 100% true and that it tells me to love all people no matter what they believe or do not believe. Some of the "religious" people you have been talking about are bad examples of what a true Christian should be and how they should act. Please don't judge all people on the actions of the few. True religion is really a relationship with Jesus and we must treat others how Jesus treats us and that is to love everyone. We are taught in Micah 6:8 to act justly, love mercy and walk humbly with our God. If we are not doing this then we are not being imitators of Christ. If this is the way we are acting then we are being open-minded.

[Maria]

Hi Carol. Do you believe, as a Christian, that the entire Bible is inspired of God and should be used as the basis for our daily lives in our time?

[Ken]

I'm happy for you Carol that you believe, but how can you state "true religion is really a relationship with Jesus" when other religions don't have Jesus as the central character? Are they not true?

[Travis]

Carol wrote: "I believe the Bible is 100% true and that it tells me to love all people no matter what they believe or do not believe. Some of the "religious" people you have been talking about are bad examples o..."


But there are other passages in the bible that are not advising christians to be loving or open-minded, rather the opposite.
So, then we get into the whole idea of cherry-picking the word of god and if believers can ignore the parts they don't like, where is the authority to tell other people anything?

Atheists just choose to ignore a few more parts of the bible than the actual christians do.

[Elaine]

Maria, thank you for responding. How do you view other monotheistic religions such as Islam and Judaism and their adherents? If acting with respect, tolerance and love towards is open-mined then atheists and people of all religions could be deemed to be open-minded even if they don't have a "relationship with Jesus".

[Carol]

Travis wrote: "Carol wrote: "I believe the Bible is 100% true and that it tells me to love all people no matter what they believe or do not believe. Some of the "religious" people you have been talking about are ..."

You are right in that most Christians choose what part of the Bible they want to follow and what "does not apply to them". Well, it all applies to us and we should not be choosing what to believe and what not to believe. I guess if I were to be honest I have probably done this myself on occasion although I do try to live in the reality that all of it is true and applies to me today.

[Carol]

Maria wrote: "Hi Carol. Do you believe, as a Christian, that the entire Bible is inspired of God and should be used as the basis for our daily lives in our time?"

Maria, I absolutely believe this! At times it is hard to understand because of the wording or the translation. But I have been trying to study the Bible as closely to the original writings as I can and this has made some things much clearer to me and easier to understand.

[Carol]

Elaine wrote: "Maria, thank you for responding. How do you view other monotheistic religions such as Islam and Judaism and their adherents? If acting with respect, tolerance and love towards is open-mined then ..."

Elaine, I am not saying that you have to have a relationship with Jesus to be open-minded. I am saying that if you have a relationship with Jesus you should be open minded.

[Gordon]

Carol, Like I mentioned in the past, if ur religion, beliefs, spirituality, etc... make u a better person & don't force ur beliefs on me than that's all that I personally look at.

U are right not generalizing one off actions of a few, its sad but ur in the minority as a person using religion personally to become a better person. I can't say with certainty the # of people with ur attitude, but regarding organized religious power- i.e. Vatican. History shows power at levels people receive in many religions tend to corrupt & make the whole look much worse. They might not burn u at the stake in the US anymore, but Christian fanaticism is not far away, Interacting in 'bible belt', super churches, $$'s given, WHOA. Not fair to ask u to answer for powerful institutions, but they do represent ur faith. Google Christian fanatics, USA?

Sliding a bit off topic, I'm curious about Muslim's; why do tru Muslims who believe that fanatics are ruining the faith & falsely represent the Koran don't make larger efforts publically showing disgust with perversion of the religion? Is it out of fear? Is it because it seems us Americans are again in another country?(the wrong one IMO, Iran, our 'ally' Saudi's are a much larger concern)We should worry about the problems in OUR country, the poverty, violence, school system, etc... I know this was awhile ago & I went thru hurricane 'Sandi', but during Katrina we couldn't even get water into area's in need, c'mon really? drop a palate, we can insert troops into 'unreachable' regions but FEMA stymied by dirty water, a bit depressing, sry, ranting again

[HT]

I have read numerous comments about Muslims and Islam and one thing to be said here:
Arguably, today's Muslims do not represent what Islam truly is. Devotion and faith have decreased much since the death of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and that's expected. But the unexpected,is that Muslims do not even try to accomplish the basic teachings of Islam. They've just locked it into the mosques, it's just a "tradition" for the majority I believe, whereas it is there to be a lifestyle. Today's Muslims never agree on one thing about Islam, except the phrase "No God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet". It is very sad to see the Islamic nation "doing poor" when compared to the "Dark ages" of Europe(which was the golden age of Muslims, an empire ranging from China in east to Portugal in west, accomplishments in most of( if not all) fields in life). And I am telling you, corruption is the problem of Muslims nowadays.
Regarding "Islam is a bomb.They are terrorists. They deserve to die. They want to kill everybody. They force their religion on everyone, and guess what! who refuses to convert to Islam, BOOOM! a headshot!".
Absolute nonsense. Islam does not urge to kill or bomb buildings. Apart from the doctrine in Islam which deals with the existence of Allah(God) and devotion, Islam is logic. Islam is a science itself. It is deep, so much deep that there are a huge number of Muslims do not realize. If people read the biography of the Prophet of Islam (Peace be upon him), they will understand what kind of person he is. I would not mention any further information about his life, hoping that you read his biography and meet the purest heart ever existed in the long history of mankind. That man I mentioned before, is what Islam is all about.
So I urge everyone who seeks answers about Islam, and seeks information about what *JIHAD* is and hopefully compare between the true Jihad and bombing a building or beheading a man\woman. The truth will reveal itself.
And remember, guys, before criticizing Islam, Islam is the product, and Muslims are the salesmen, and unfortunately, they are bad salesmen.

Thank you for reading this,
a Muslim

* Please note that I do not claim that I am a perfect Muslim, I am a guy who have been exploring the truth the past 2 years. I do not consider myself as a "good salesman". Environment has its own effects, and it had its effects on me. Imitating was the only thing I learned the past 18 years in my life, until I decided to change.
Using the form of third person is just to represent my thoughts and ideas from a perspective of a non-Muslim who knows something about Islam.But at the end of the day, I am a Muslim!

[Gordon]

Tarik wrote: "I have read numerous comments about Muslims and Islam and one thing to be said here:
Arguably, today's Muslims do not represent what Islam truly is. Devotion and faith have decreased much since the..."

That was seriously enlightening T or a Muslim, I can see why u would be frustrated because I have read the Koran in bits & I know it doesn't talk about jihad in the bs terms the brainwashing fanatics use nowadays... u answered the question I was seriously interested in having a 'devout' Muslim answer, thanks man

Another way religion which is words written by men can be twisted & used against its real purpose, most old testament stuff has 'God' dealing out serious pain for a loving guy lol, the ark, the problems Egypt had with Jesuits, my wife happens to be Jewish & we celebrate all the major holidays but I'm an Asian guy who believes in personal spirituality that revolves a lot around karma & Buddhist teachings, I forgot who mentioned it but hardcore Buddhism is so similar to deep physics & abstract math, specifically quantum mechanics. That's the main reason if humans could use religion as a whole positively (i.e Vatican, Corrupt Muslim officials mentioned above, etc..), no reason why science & religion can't co-exist

[Travis]

Carol wrote: "Travis wrote: "Carol wrote: "I believe the Bible is 100% true and that it tells me to love all people no matter what they believe or do not believe. Some of the "religious" people you have been tal..."

Then, I wish you luck, as the bible is such a mass of contradictions that your brain may explode.

Personally, if people are looking to the bible as a personal philosophy, that's fine and to be honest, you have to cherry pick.

My gripe is, if you're going to do that, stop talking about how it is the one true word of god, the bedrock of morality etc...and make the rest of us follow a set of rules that you guys really just kind of picked at random from a big list.
If christians can cherry pick the bible, then we should all get to do it.

I personally only follow the bit about not eating figs.

[Carol]

Ken, I must admit that I am one of those people that believes the only way to heaven is through faith in Jesus Christ. He lived and died and rose again so that one day I can spend eternity with Him. Any other "religion" that does not believe that is a false religion. Have said that, that doesn't give me license to "hate" anyone that does not believe the way I do. Or treat them badly in anyway. I am called to love all people the way Jesus loves.

[Carol]

Travis, God made us all with the free will to choose to follow him or not. I would not make you choose to follow what I believe, but I hope you would allow me to choose what is right for me.

[Travis]

Carol wrote: "Travis, God made us all with the free will to choose to follow him or not. I would not make you choose to follow what I believe, but I hope you would allow me to choose what is right for me."

Oh that's fine, I have no problem with people choosing whatever they want to believe.
Don't feel I'm zeroing in on you personally, you just said some things that have been talked about before on the thread and my responses were meant to be more general to the crowd.

You just tipped the first domino in my line of thought

You can be in whatever religion you want, it's a big, strange world and we all need something.
I just wish religious folk would leave the rest of us alone.

[Carol]

What do you mean about religious folks leaving the rest of us alone? Can you be more specific?

[Mickey]

Carol wrote: "Travis, God made us all with the free will to choose to follow him or not. I would not make you choose to follow what I believe, but I hope you would allow me to choose what is right for me."

What "Free Will" are we talking about here?
If someone puts a gun to ones head and says "Ether love me with all your heart and soul OR I will shoot you dead"? That person would be classified as a criminal of a high magnitude and locked up with the key thrown away.

But if a "GOD" says "Ether love me with all your heart and soul OR you will be suffering for an eternity in hell!". Is that a choice of a kind and loving God?
Is that your example of free will? Or is it part of a sick religion that is harmful to a society?

It is delusional one your part thinking your religion actually provides a choice!
Free Will is pure nonscence when it comes to religion.

[Travis]

Carol wrote: "What do you mean about religious folks leaving the rest of us alone? Can you be more specific?"

How religion is used to enact laws or justify actions and behavior in the rest of the world.
The USA being described/categorized as a 'Christian Nation'.

Religion being used as the justification for denying rights to people.

Religion as a personal thing, I can understand and if not respect, then at least agree to disagree, but it is not a way to govern and is not the equal of science.

[Carol]

God is also a just God and yes we are free to choose heaven or hell. When my daughter was little and I offered her the choice of a good ending to a bad situation or a spanking, what do you think she chose? Most often it was the good ending but on occasion she took the spanking.

[Mickey]

Carol wrote: "God is also a just God and yes we are free to choose heaven or hell. When my daughter was little and I offered her the choice of a good ending to a bad situation or a spanking, what do you think sh..."

Bad example, A spanking is nothing compared to hell. Do you torture your child for being disobedient? Big difference between a spanking and hell.

A spanking is correction in behavior. Hell is like a death penalty for just not accepting your kind and loving god. A see a big contradiction here.

[Mickey]

Carol wrote: "God is also a just God and yes we are free to choose heaven or hell. When my daughter was little and I offered her the choice of a good ending to a bad situation or a spanking, what do you think sh..."

Carol since this a book forum may I suggest a good book that discusses such things. About free will and predestination and such. The book is Lsc Theories of Knowledge and Reality

[Carol]

Religion is a very personal thing and I agree with your statement to agree to disagree. but when in an open forum like this or as neighbors across the back fence I think we should be able to speak freely. I would also say that religion and science are not equal. When the USA was founded most people believed in God but there were many different religions and that gave us the Christian Nation title. I don't think our nation is as "Christian" as it used to be.

[Carol]

Mickey I will try and a hold of that book at my library or on amazon. Thanks.

[Mickey]

Carol wrote: "Mickey I will try and a hold of that book at my library or on amazon. Thanks."

Buy used. New cost around $70 for 400 page paperback. It was one my textbooks in college for a philosophy class.

[Mary]

Religious beliefs always seem to have a convoluted explanation. God is all knowing, but he allows you to choose, all the while already knowing what you will do? How is that free will? God created us in his image, but sits back like a grandpa on a park bench as we kill each other in his name? Loves us, but doesn't stop pain and suffering? None of it makes any sense to me. I guess that's why they call it " faith" and not "fact".

[Mickey]

Mary wrote: "Religious beliefs always seem to have a convoluted explanation. God is all knowing, but he allows you to choose, all the while already knowing what you will do? How is that free will? God created u..."

Agreed, that is why I am an Athiest.

Mathew 6:8 "for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."
If God knows your prayer before you ask. Then God knows if you are going to Heaven or Hell before you are born. Creating billions of people that he knows will burn in hell in pain and mashing of teeth for eternity. That is a kind and loving God? No such thing as Free Will in the context of a religion.

So many contradictions of the Bible filled with Fairy Tales, it is right up there with Grims Fairy Tales.

However, the real question is:
Is it better to live in a world of Fantasy and be happy or know the Truth and be sad? For many the answer is yes.

(Religion can socially inflict punishment for those that go against them).

[Carol]

Mary wrote: "Religious beliefs always seem to have a convoluted explanation. God is all knowing, but he allows you to choose, all the while already knowing what you will do? How is that free will? God created u..."

Pain and suffering are in the world because of sin. God did not create us to go to heaven or hell, He created us with the free will to choose heaven or hell and He knows what we will choose. He is not willing that any should perish! The reason He has come again is to give everyone the chance to choose life.

If you want to learn more about why people are subjected to pain and suffering in today's world, there will be a showing in the movie theaters on September 24 only of the movie "Unstoppable" which will seek to explain this.

God does not just sit back and watch. He wants to be involved in our lives, but we must ask Him to be involved. He wants a relationship with us, but as with all human relationships both participants must play an active roll. God will not force Himself on you but you do have to ask Him and do your part to keep the relationship alive.

[Travis]

Carol wrote: "Religion is a very personal thing and I agree with your statement to agree to disagree. but when in an open forum like this or as neighbors across the back fence I think we should be able to speak ..."

I have no problem with people speaking freely and won't do anything to stop it, but will use my right to speak freely to question ideas put out here and put out my ideas.
That's when the fun starts.

I think america calls itself a christian nation, but it's either in name only, or it's really acting like a true christian nation and is a fine example of why atheism is on the rise.

The other countries not there where religion has taken control, are the countries we consider to be the bad guys.
So, I prefer not to test the theory that we would get it right and not end up like those other places.Those are not good Vegas odds, so I prefer that the separation of church and state stay that way.

[Elaine]

I am always intrigued by religious people seeming to know what God thinks. Where do they come up with this stuff? The pat answer is usually the Bible, a book with innumerable contradictions (notice how the character of God changed over the books) and with events about the star character, Jesus, written over 4 decades after his death. (If the argument is that the writers of the gospels were inspired by God, then why are there inconsistencies with the recounting of the same events?) Why don't Christians follow all the laws outlined in the Old Testament?

[Elaine]

In my opinion, an atheist has more free will and is more open-minded than a person belonging to a religion. An atheist can freely read the religious texts of other religions and books about the history of religion, question and debate the existence or non-existence of God without worrying about eternal damnation, marvel at natural world while attempting to decipher the laws of physics that lead to the origin of the universe and all living things upon it, accept and tolerate people of all races, religions, etc. (Christians may claim they love everyone but they certainly don't accept and tolerate everyone.)
Sorry for the rambling post: I must get some housework done -- maybe I don't have the all the free will I thought I had!

[Carol]

I believe open mindedness is a character trait and does not solely depend on whether you have religious beliefs or not.

[Mary]

See Carol, that makes no sense to me. I doubt anything you can say will change my mind. I've studied many religions. Attended synagogue, catholic and Protestant churches, and I lived in Saudi Arabia where I learned about Islam. The mere presence of so many different religions tells me logically that there is no one truth, people just pick the one that makes them feel the best about themselves or gives them the most comfort.

[Elaine]

My dictionary's definition of open-minded: receptive to arguments or ideas; impartial. In my experience, religious people don't seem open to the idea that their religion may not be the "true" one or refuse to consider information that go against their religious beliefs. For example, how often does a theist actively seek to learn and understand the science behind evolution (which is a fact, not a theory). How many theists will willingly read about the history of the evolution of monotheism? Sorry, but open-minded is not a word that I would use to describe the religious people I have met. I would, however, describe many of them as loving, kind and warm-hearted people who would be bereft without their religious beliefs. I love and respect them (many of my family and friends are religious) but it is impossible for me to refute all of the evidence that points to God as a man-made concept.

[Mary]

Elaine wrote: "My dictionary's definition of open-minded: receptive to arguments or ideas; impartial. In my experience, religious people don't seem open to the idea that their religion may not be the "true" one ..."

Well said. I completely agree.

[Mary]

Elaine wrote: "I am always intrigued by religious people seeming to know what God thinks. Where do they come up with this stuff? The pat answer is usually the Bible, a book with innumerable contradictions (noti..."

Also, why did they need to convene a council 325 years after Jesus died, to decide how and what Christians believed. That sounds completely arbitrary and self serving to me. Not one of those men was alive to witness Jesus and his so called miracles or work, nor did they know anyone who had been alive. Just like an accident scene where three witnesses can tell 3 different accounts of the accident, I can only imagine how the original stories changed based on the teller's biases and desires.

[Tim]

For sure. There's a man here in South Africa called Ben Decker. He's like, 73 and lives in a cave in Port St Johns, a wild truly African settlement on the South East coast. He's 6 foot 8 and has lived life large. He's done many things that have gone down in folklore. What he's done has been amplified fifty-fold, and he's not even dead yet. Imagine what they will be saying about Uncle Ben in 50 years time.

[[deleted user]]

i would rather like to live in a world without this question. this is because my religion(islam) is a science in itself and built on scientific thinking..

that is what I know and what i believe in.

[Mickey]

Haitham wrote: "i would rather like to live in a world without this question. this is because my religion(islam) is a science in itself and built on scientific thinking..

that is what I know and what i believe in."

Of course you do not want this question asked, because most religions teach followers not to ask questions about their faith and just obey ones elders thinking that they are wiser. This is a path to misery for the earth and everyone on it... blind leadership.

Science on the other teaches people to ask Questions and learn by reasoning. Religion is based on faith not on science. If one questions their own religion they may not like the answers that science provides.

[Travis]

Haitham wrote: "i would rather like to live in a world without this question. this is because my religion(islam) is a science in itself and built on scientific thinking..

that is what I know and what i believe in."

If your religion includes a deity, then your claim to being built on science is on shaky ground.

[Asmaa]

Mickey

you cant control what should we think or what should we believe we all have brains and we all free to believe or not to
you can`t force all of us to be what do you want us to be and so are you free to think
the question was Would you rather live in a world without science or in a world without religion?
so everyone can say his Opinion

so PLEASE stop complaining that not all the world think the way you do
stop complaining that you can`t control the world

[Mickey]

Asmaa wrote: "Mickey

you can`t force all of us to be what do you want us to be."

Bummer.

[Utiya]

i will never find a word to choose one of them. science and religion are definitely important in their own part to regulate life. soul and material. besides, in my religion, science is the thing must be learn that we are told to study and think about The God's creatures....

[Gordon]

So funny thing happened that made me think of this thread, I was talking to a family friend who happens to be a Rabbi/Theologist & a term I used earlier 'Eye for an Eye' I apparently took out of context, in the old testament this saying was directed towards value of financial goods, that the amount of value should be equal. I then started talking about all the old testament wrath of god stuff & he def agreed God was not a happy camper to many groups/individuals

The point? The simple mix up that I made was not brought to light by anyone Christian or Catholic which I thought if they were to claim about cherry picking that would be a good ace in the hole because everyone uses that line, but it also shows how a simple line twisted by religion can kill millions over the years... anyway, I thought it was ironic & decided to share it. My opinions still don't change

[Pete]

Carol wrote: "I believe open mindedness is a character trait and does not solely depend on whether you have religious beliefs or not."

Carol, I agree with this statement. But on Aug 16, your post said this :

"....True religion is really a relationship with Jesus and we must treat others how Jesus treats us and that is to love everyone. We are taught in Micah 6:8 to act justly, love mercy and walk humbly with our God. If we are not doing this then we are not being imitators of Christ. If this is the way we are acting then we are being open-minded."

It seems to me you were then linking open-mindedness with proper Christian behaviour.

[Pete]

Travis wrote: "Haitham wrote: "i would rather like to live in a world without this question. this is because my religion(islam) is a science in itself and built on scientific thinking..

that is what I know and w..."

I can't agree with you more.