Would you rather live in a world without science...or in a world without religion? Showing 11,051-11,100 of 12,463

[Margaret]

Travis wrote: "Rachel wrote: "I think some atheists cherry pick reasons to deny that there is a God...maybe God wanted atheist to exist, to help believers determine if their faith is worth holding on to? ;)"

We ..."

well if women weren't allowed to vote this country (UK) Would never have been blessed with one of it's most powerful Prime Ministers of all time. Margaret Thatcher.

[Mary]

Margaret, Travis is being ironic. He's trying to point out the ridiculousness of Chris' argument.

[Margaret]

I believe in freedom of speech and unfortunately all too many religions don't allow women the right to that value. I don't disagree with religion I just don't follow any myself. Born a Catholic and as an adult decided for myself it was the wrong choice for me. If a person/s has a need for religion in their life then so be it. Some people need to have a faith to follow, I'm fortunate that my own sense of belief is my faith.

[Travis]

Margaret wrote: "Travis wrote: "Rachel wrote: "I think some atheists cherry pick reasons to deny that there is a God...maybe God wanted atheist to exist, to help believers determine if their faith is worth holding ..."

Well, two things:

1) my comment about women was made to showcase that chris' argument of giving people rights as a bad, scary, changey thing hits a stumble when it comes up against reality.

b) Margret Thatcher is your an example of a good thing that came out of giving women the vote...?

[Travis]

Margaret wrote: "I believe in freedom of speech and unfortunately all too many religions don't allow women the right to that value. I don't disagree with religion I just don't follow any myself. Born a Catholic and..."



it's okay that you decided the catholic church wasn't for you anymore.
Apparently, the last pope had that same feeling...

[Margaret]

Margaret Thatcher was hated by most in this country, the changes she made weren't all good but she changed attitudes and paved the way for other women to empower themselves in a seriously male dominated society and that was a good thing.
From a very young age the existence of God was a question in my mind and I "personally" didn't want to follow that belief. I don't push my beliefs on my children or anyone elses and believe it's up to the individual to determine for themselves whee their beliefs lay.

[Maria]

Shannon, I've been in this thread as long or longer than you - and I must say that Mary has got your number - spot on. I agree with everything she has said about your attitude. You're fine until challenged then the accusations fly - and no one understands you.

[Margaret]

Rachel we're surrounded by irony. But throughout my 48 yrs of life the one statement I've always stood by is "Show me the proof and I might reconsider". that also goes for Ghosts and Spirits too!

[Margaret]

Probably going to cause an outcry here! I believe in the sanctity of Life and Marriage and believe that we're meant to procreate and can't do that in a same sex marriage.

[Mary]

Okay Margaret. But then what about when a heterosexual couple decides not to procreate? Or what if they can't have children? Or what if they have a child and it dies? Does that invalidate the marriage?
Is it okay if they adopt? If it is okay for heteros to adopt, then is it not okay for same sex couples?

Or is it only the potential to procreate that is sacred?

[Margaret]

Sorry Said Rachel instead of Mary. Parental choice of religion is all too commonplace. Educate then allow for choice. that was the point in saying I was Catholic from Birth. Maria it's all too commonplace that people who have a belief feel challenged when opinions differ from theirs.
this thread is confusing who's Shannon?

[Mary]

The person posting's name appears at the bottom of the post. If you reply to a post it will include that person's post at the top saying "Mary said" If there are many replies it'll say "Mary said, Tracy said, Rachel said...." It can be very confusing....
I'm not touching the question about Shannon.....

[Margaret]

The comment about the last pope! Unfortunately I believe that he was unable to continue his duty due to the hypocrisy and controversy that is faced by the Catholic Church of it's advocates being prosecuted with Historic Crimes of Sexual deviance and Paedophilia and he personally couldn't live with or defend without prejudice.

[Margaret]

Mary wrote: "Okay Margaret. But then what about when a heterosexual couple decides not to procreate? Or what if they can't have children? Or what if they have a child and it dies? Does that invalidate the marri..."
we're talking about the sanctity of life not the tragedies of life. I did say it was a personal opinion. My favourite programme on TV at the moment is The New Normal it's so topical of today's lifestyle and culture. Whatever floats YOUR boat. Thank Science for IV and Adoption agencies for the Childless couples. Also as a consideration of mine to a family member,but thankfully in the end not necessary, Surrogacy.
As I stated from the outset. We are all allowed to have an opinion whether believed by another or not.

[Travis]

Margaret wrote: "Probably going to cause an outcry here! I believe in the sanctity of Life and Marriage and believe that we're meant to procreate and can't do that in a same sex marriage."

Actually, you can procreate without any marriage at all.

back to irony, I do love that christians are all gung ho about traditional marriage, when you consider Jesus.
No procreation and his actual birth parents were never married.

[Mary]

Margaret, you lost me. You said you believe marriage is sacred and you can't procreate in same sex marriage. So I asked, well, what if you can't procreate in a heterosexual marriage? Does that invalidate it?

Or are you saying you just feel the potential to procreate is sacred, not the actuality?

It seems a double standard.

[[deleted user]]

Maria wrote: "Shannon, I've been in this thread as long or longer than you - and I must say that Mary has got your number - spot on. I agree with everything she has said about your attitude. You're fine until ch..."

Ahhh, ....

And, ... I thought you said, "Truce," just 24 hours ago.

Another chuckle, all in one evening.

[Margaret]

Travis wrote: "Margaret wrote: "Probably going to cause an outcry here! I believe in the sanctity of Life and Marriage and believe that we're meant to procreate and can't do that in a same sex marriage."

Actuall..."

Maybe it was just a phantom pregnancy and they acquired a child from the then adoption agency. Or maybe Mary was in actual fact Mark.

[Mary]

Margaret...
I understand your stance, you want every child to have one mom and one dad and be raised in a happy, loving home.
But let me tell you in my many years of teaching I can tell you that marriage and heterosexuality are no guarantee that a child's life will be free of abuse, addiction, neglect or any other of the problems I see.
If hetero marriage could guarantee no child would suffer bad parents then I would say you were right.

[Travis]

Margaret wrote: "Travis wrote: "Margaret wrote: "Probably going to cause an outcry here! I believe in the sanctity of Life and Marriage and believe that we're meant to procreate and can't do that in a same sex marr..."

again, I appreciate the bible as a huge source of unintentional irony.
If nothing else, it's an entertaining book.

[Mary]

Amen Travis... Irony intended

[Travis]

Mary wrote: "Margaret...
I understand your stance, you want every child to have one mom and one dad and be raised in a happy, loving home.
But let me tell you in my many years of teaching I can tell you that ma..."

I'm always asking people how could gay couples screw up marriage any worse then straight people have?

Single parenting is hard, if a kid has two loving parents taking care of them, I'm not going to be that fussy over the minor details like them both being guys.

If god was such a big proponent of traditional families then he should have set a better example.

[Margaret]

Mary you don't get me at all I don't disagree with what any other person choses as a life choice I have to reiterate that my personal opinion is I am heterosexual and that is what "I" see as the norm. I don't disrespect others opinions or choices in life and try and push my opinion on anyone else. Your totally right it's all about the welfare and well being of the child. Freedom of Speech and Choice was the main issue here. I never once in both my son's lives dictated that they should be GAY or STRAIGHT. I let them make their own minds up as to what religion or sexual orientation they Chose for themselves..

[Margaret]

Personal Opinion is this not what we're trying to enhance here.

[Margaret]

dictators whether right or wrong will always have followers and opponents. I believe the BIBLE was written as a set of guidelines for morality and misrepresented by tyrants who wanted to ensure their own dictatorship. Has it not also been claimed that Jesus was Bi-sexual.

[Margaret]

Shannon wrote: "Margaret wrote: "Look at all the conflicts in the world today and 99% of them are religion orientated. Common sense, respect and love for, as the Dalai Lama would say all sentient beings is all it ..."
OMG I'm sorry I even posted on this now I should've looked at previous posts I was making a generalisation not a stated fact. I'll know better in future to jump in to an ongoing debate. It seems that respecting peoples opinions isn't an actual fact though.

[Margaret]

Sai Thein Than wrote: "Actually, this is a question on the reading group guides. I like the topic so I bring it up here.
I'm an atheist myself so I'd rather live in a world without religion. But, I'm not implying that re..."

Here Here. Well said and many posts after you have taken it a bit too seriously I think... Radical Fanaticism is all too common now eh?

[Mary]

Margaret wrote: "Mary you don't get me at all I don't disagree with what any other person choses as a life choice I have to reiterate that my personal opinion is I am heterosexual and that is what "I" see as the no..."

I get what you are saying. You do not approve of same sex marriage, but you do not want to do anything to stop it? Are you from England? I know that you have civil unions with all the same rights. We do not here, it differs state to state. That's why it's such an issue here.

[Margaret]

I'm from Scotland and we've just passed laws in Scottish Parliament on same sex Marriage. Our First Minister is trying to ensure total equality among citizens regardless of Religion or Sex. I'm all for that too. I'm sorry for not understanding how serious a topic it is for all of you who have been on this topic for a while I thought it was a just a bit of a fun chat. I don't and didn't mean to disrespect anyones point of view or in any way make fun of aspects that are not that critical to our laws.

[Margaret]

Mary wrote: "Margaret wrote: "Shannon wrote: "Margaret wrote: "Look at all the conflicts in the world today and 99% of them are religion orientated. Common sense, respect and love for, as the Dalai Lama would s..."

ok

[Mary]

We have good friends from Scotland. Well, he's English ( a sin for which he cannot be totally absolved) and she is Scottish. I learned some very useful phrases from her. Such as "My house is a tip."

[Margaret]

Mary wrote: "We have good friends from Scotland. Well, he's English ( a sin for which he cannot be totally absolved) and she is Scottish. I learned some very useful phrases from her. Such as "My house is a tip.""

My house is a tip sometimes too. Quite minging at times. Minging/Manky means Dirty. Unkempt. we can be quite liberal in Scotland and Generally quite easy going. We do have serious issues too though. But never radical. Well not that I know of.

[Mary]

I originally thought she meant her house was tipped over, upside down. But a tip is a garbage heap right?

[Margaret]

Or we sometimes say a Dump
a dumping ground for everything. You come in and dump your shopping,shoes,coats etc.

[Margaret]

Mary wrote: "I originally thought she meant her house was tipped over, upside down. But a tip is a garbage heap right?"

Rubbish/Garbage Tip is where trash is collected from household bins and piled onto a place called landfill. Specific sites all over the country. Recycle plants are popping up now for recycled trash such as glass,paper, furniture old household goods etc. UK is so far behind other countries when it comes to recycling we're only just getting to grip with it now. 20/30 years behind everyone else. Therefore our country is a tip.

[Joanne]

Arguing about either thing would never change my mind. All it ever does or has done is tick people off. Mainly because political and religious beliefs really matter to us a lot. Most of us are just stymied by the other person's inability to see things our way. So, as I said, it is a useless expenditure of energy. All it does is raise blood pressure.

[[deleted user]]

An amendment for "atheist chaplains" ....

Confused.

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/...

[[deleted user]]

So, I was on the phone with my mother this morning, who was distraught that President Obama was insisting that the military have atheist chaplains. I told her that didn't make sense and Googled it and cleared up her misconception. It's an amendment by a congressman.

Even that didn't make sense to me. Especially given the dialogue I've seen here. Did more looking and found this....

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segm...

Long but informative.

I don't know.... I don't think it's an issue of semantics. You know how non-believers fight the misconception that they've made their own gods and have made atheism a religion. I can't help but feel this plays into that. Why in the world would they use the term "chaplain" in this way? I told my mother ... why not have atheist groups on military bases, where they can meet and talk about things, etc.... But, to have chaplains...?!

I'm pretty hung up on the word myself, though supportive of having a leader who moderates discussion, etc....

A weird thing, in my mind. Didn't know atheist chaplains existed and that this was debated amongst non-believers.

[Mary]

Atheist chaplains do not exist.
The bill was defeated.
Tell your mom the world is not falling apart and Obama did not author this bill, a Democrat senator from NJ. did.
I appears to be an attempt to have some sort of counseling that is not medical for non-believers, or non theists. Apparently the only way they can do that is through chaplains.

Here's a nice sound bite by the religious right about this.


"They don't believe anything," said Rep. Mike Conaway (R-Texas) "I can't imagine an atheist accompanying a notification team as they go into some family's home to let them have the worst news of their life and this guy says, 'You know, that's it -- your son's just worms, I mean, worm food.'"

[Joanne]

That sound bite is just stupid.

[Travis]

Mary wrote: "Atheist chaplains do not exist.
The bill was defeated.
Tell your mom the world is not falling apart and Obama did not author this bill, a Democrat senator from NJ. did.
I appears to be an attempt t..."

Besides, if it was Obama, he would have been recommending socialist muslim chaplains that want to take our guns away.

[Mary]

Very true Travis. Very true.

[Maria]

Shannon said: "And, ... I thought you said, "Truce," just 24 hours ago."

I did, and you pretty much blew me off saying that you might consider replying to my posts, if I asked you a direct question, etc, etc. Sorry, not worth the time and energy to argue with you.

[[deleted user]]

Mary wrote: "Tell your mom the world is not falling apart and Obama did not author this bill, a Democrat senator from NJ. did."


I'm guessing you didn't actually read my entire post, Mary. Else you'd have seen that I told my mother that didn't make sense, Googled it, found it was an amendment by a congressman, and cleared up her misconception.

If you pick and choose which sentences to read, how can you make accurate assumptions and conclusions ... assumptions and conclusions that you treat as fact.

??

Regarding atheist chaplains ....

It seems, from the video I posted, the term is humanist chaplains. One of the men who began the interview is personally an atheist but calls himself a humanist chaplain. Another man in the video discussed the division within the community of non-believers on this point. Some don't think the term "chaplain" should be used at all due to the religious connotations. It seems there are humanist chaplains on some college campuses.

Given the dialogue I've seen here and the misconceptions of believers, I'd say I'd be on the side of non-believers who say that word shouldn't be used. Atheist groups and leaders? Fine. Humanist groups and leaders? Fine. Chaplains? Whether they're atheists who call themselves humanist chaplains or not ...? It seems confusing to me. Agnostics who call themselves humanist chaplains.... Humanists.... There's a disconnect for me. Why use religious words with religious definitions? And, from the video clip, it seems they, humanist chaplains who are atheists, do indeed exist ... as does the controversy within the community.

[Mary]

How did I contradict you? Just sharing my feelings on it. Non issue, in my opinion.

[Maria]

See what I mean? So what if she contradicted you. It's a discussion, a debate, that is what is expected. No personal affront. My goodness!

[[deleted user]]

Mary wrote: "How did I contradict you? Just sharing my feelings on it. Non issue, in my opinion."


You didn't contradict me.

You told me to tell my mother Obama didn't demand this and that it was the idea of a NJ congressman.

Yes, I'm aware ... as I said in the original post. I did as you said. Without your having to tell me to do it.

No personal affront.

Just can't figure out how you decide which of my sentences to read and which you decide to ignore.

Or, did you mean to say, "Good for you for telling your mom it wasn't Obama but a congressman from NJ" ... leaving out the good for you that you told your mom part ...?

[Mary]

Nope. I wrote exactly what I meant. I read all your sentences. Maybe you can mark all the ones you want me to specifically respond to?

[[deleted user]]

Mary wrote: "Nope. I wrote exactly what I meant. I read all your sentences. Maybe you can mark all the ones you want me to specifically respond to?"


See.... That's what I thought.

So, out of curiosity and not affront ....

Why, if I said I told my mother it didn't make sense, researched it, found it was an amendment from a congressman, and cleared up her misconception ....

...would you tell me to do that very thing?

The very thing I'd already done.

Doesn't make much sense to me. The only thing that would make sense is if you read the first sentence and didn't follow with the next.

Or, perhaps, there's another reason ... you'd tell me to do the very thing I'd already done. As if I'd not already done it....

[Mary]

Again, I did not know you posted that in order for me to pat you on the back and say, " good job, Shannon".
I thought I was responding to your post with my own reactions.
Please put a disclaimer in front of your posts on how you would like me to respond, otherwise I might just use my own thoughts....(This is a non issue. Move on)