Angels & Demons
discussion
Would you rather live in a world without science...or in a world without religion?
(ok off the topic but did you know that there are actually 10 dimensions maybe more and we can only see three of them. Height, depth and breadth) Is that not cool. Isn't also interesting how we are the most intelligent beings as far as we know.
Also you know how scientists are trying to look for life on planets or prove it should I say, what I never understand is why we jump to the conclusion that there maybe life more intelligent than us. I mean there could be life on other planets they just might not as intelligent as us. There might be some type of moss or something on other planets.
So yeah... thanks for listening to my crazy random rant.
Also you know how scientists are trying to look for life on planets or prove it should I say, what I never understand is why we jump to the conclusion that there maybe life more intelligent than us. I mean there could be life on other planets they just might not as intelligent as us. There might be some type of moss or something on other planets.They're looking for more or equivalent intelligence because it's like they are using technology that enables us to detect them like radio and microwaves and such. I honestl think that any scientist would be thrilled to discover extra terrestrial moss.
There's also a theory that rocks from Mars (which may have had life a some point, there is geological evidence of water a prerequisite for life as we know it) knocked loose by meteors (thus becoming meteors)containing bacteria seeded earth's "primordial soup" thus enabling life here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeJoVe...
Isabelle wrote: "(ok off the topic but did you know that there are actually 10 dimensions maybe more and we can only see three of them. Height, depth and breadth) Is that not cool. Isn't also interesting how we a..."
when you consider it statistcally, there are billions of galaxies in the universe, with billions of stars in each galaxy, and billions of those stars have planets orbitting them, and so statistically speaking, its unlikely that we're the only planet with life, and unlikely that we're the only planet with intelligent life.
Its also reasonable to assume that if there is life, then at least 50% of it of is more advanced than we are, and 50% of it is less advanced. This is just a basic rule of thumb assumption.
It has been shown that bacterial lifeforms and plant spores can survive the vacuum of space and still produce life.
"Hazel wrote: It has been shown that bacterial lifeforms and plant spores can survive the vacuum of space and still produce life. "That's so cool. =)
this guy has survived the vacuum of space too, and is the cutest microscopic critter to boot:
Isabelle wrote: " "Hazel wrote: It has been shown that bacterial lifeforms and plant spores can survive the vacuum of space and still produce life. "That's so cool. =)"
Life also appears to have emerged on Earth very quickly after conditions settled down, which may be an indication that life occurs easily. This would mean that life may occur wherever conditions are right, so the universe is probably filled with life and some of the planets we have detected with the right temperature may have life.
Unfortunately it's not all good news, it seems to have taken life nearly 3 billion years before complex multicellular life evolved.
So at the moment there may be trillions of planets with life on them in the universe, but perhaps only a few of them have anything bigger than their equivalent of bacterial colonies and algae drifts.
So for all you want-to-be space explorers who have mysophobia, the universe may be mainly inhabited by germs. :-)
Alexis wrote: "When you think about science is very similar to religion. Both are:-trying to find answers about life
-trying to persuade us to believe in them
-attempting to get the most responses in their favor for questions such as these
In a way the two we believe to be opposites are very similar. "
If they have any connection it is that both are attempts to explain phenomena. One 'method' is to guess an answer based on our own ego and prejudices and then teach it to others as truth, thereby ending enquiry. The other method is to try to set aside ones own ego and prejudices and try to find the true answer, at the same point recognising that seeking that answer is the start of enquiry, not the end.
Hazel wrote: "this guy has survived the vacuum of space too, and is the cutest microscopic critter to boot:"
It looks like a Dr Who "critter"
Oh My Gosh i totally see that now. When i first looked at it i thought it was a vacuum sucking up moss or something.
Yeah I saw "the vacuum attachment" orifice too...What is it called Hazel?
Shanna wrote: "Hazel wrote: "this guy has survived the vacuum of space too, and is the cutest microscopic critter to boot:"
It looks like a Dr Who "critter""
so true =)
Isabelle wrote: "(ok off the topic but did you know that there are actually 10 dimensions maybe more and we can only see three of them. Height, depth and breadth) Is that not cool.Actually that's one of several competing hypothesise, not a proven theory. It is really hard to do experiments to try to distinguish which theory is right.
Isabelle wrote: "Isn't also interesting how we are the most intelligent beings as far as we know."
Actually defining "intelligence" is almost as hard as defining what "life" is. Are cetaceans more or less intelligent than us? They often have larger and more complex brains? What we define as "intelligence" tends to actually mean our speed and ability to think within our cultural contexts. Hence the paradox of the autistic who may appear to be less intelligent socially but able to perform dazzling feats of intelligence in other areas.
Isabelle wrote: "Also you know how scientists are trying to look for life on planets or prove it should I say, what I never understand is why we jump to the conclusion that there maybe life more intelligent than us. I mean there could be life on other planets they just might not as intelligent as us. There might be some type of moss or something on other planets."
Obviously with only one example of a life bearing planet it's hard to draw conclusions, but as I said elsewhere it's likely that many life-bearing planets have nothing but microbial soup. We also need to remember though that ours is a relatively young star compared to most, there are stars far older and even if it took them 4 billion years to get to our stage of development too then what if they did that 4 billion years ago? (The oldest star in our galaxy is estimates to be 13.2 Billion years old, but being so old it would be unlikely to have much heavy elements including carbon and oxygen in the solar system.)
I find it interesting the quotes you gave from al-Qu'ran, the first refers to the Earth and Heavens being seperated from each other, which is a concept found in Ancient Greek and Persian mythology. It's also completely unscientific as the Earth is in "the Heavens" and therefore not sundered from it. The quote shows the belief in a Geocentric universe. There is plenty of evidence that the fact the Sun, Moon and planets followed orbits (i.e. paths following the orb of the heavens) has been known from neolithic times (with no TV and no light pollution, people looked at the sky a lot!) In fact the text about the Sun and Moon following orbits and causing night and day demonstrates again the Geocentric concept of Earth. The last one about expanding the heavens seems impressive, but is so vague as to not really tell us anything.
Islam, like Christianity, did do its part in reforming the religions of its day, but then the rebel became "the man". Baghdad used to be the centre of enlightenment allowing those of all religions and none to work together and discuss, leading to a golden age of knowledge and enlightenment.
Great talk here about why "x" means an unknown quantity thanks to the Arabs.
http://www.ted.com/talks/terry_moore_...
And here is a short talk by Neil DeGrasse Tyson which really shows the impact of faith on science, and the potential for it happening again in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDAT98...
Shanna wrote: "Hazel wrote: "this guy has survived the vacuum of space too, and is the cutest microscopic critter to boot:"
It looks like a Dr Who "critter""
Actually I think he got a role in "Starship Troopers" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120201/
Shanna wrote: "Yeah I saw "the vacuum attachment" orifice too...What is it called Hazel?"
Its a tardigrade, also known as a water bear. And I love that people think it looks like a dr who critter, because:
http://tardigradesinspace.blogspot.co...
I'd heard of water bears...
Gary wrote: "Actually I think he got a role in "Starship Troopers"Is it just me, or did that creature in Starship Troopers remind you of.....something else?
not just you.. I wonder if that was deliberate?
Shanna wrote: "not just you.. I wonder if that was deliberate?"I hope so :)
Isabelle wrote: "Cerebus wrote: "Isabelle wrote: "(Very sorry I can't find the actual actual passages from the Qu'ran. You could try and look them up yourselves if you want) "Sorry, doesn't work that way. You make..."
This is basic creation myth stuff. Nothing radical. There are versions of this in the Greek and Egyptian myths.
Cerebus wrote: "Shanna wrote: "not just you.. I wonder if that was deliberate?"I hope so :)"
Here I thought we were going to digress into a nice chat about Dr. Who and now you guys have to sully it.
Bad enough I'll probably burn in hell for hanging out with heretics, but now things have to get pervy.
Cerebus, its not the only alien life form with that similarity...http://cdn1.iofferphoto.com/img/item/...
Isabelle wrote: but what if there was no prescence of gravity..."As in......A person or thing that exists or is present in a place but is not seen....
There was a time when there was no prescence of gravity but we still remained stuck to this planet.
....... and just because science is not able to prove the existence of a god, it does not mean that there is not a God.
"Would you rather live in a world without science...or in a world without religion?"
The question is not complete. We could not remove science now, but we could have existed without it, but then mans quest to better our lives would only have been called something else.
Science spends most of its time looking for ways to correct it wrong doings.
Give us a car and we get free polution.
I could go on but you know what I mean.
cHriS wrote: "Isabelle wrote: but what if there was no prescence of gravity..."As in......A person or thing that exists or is present in a place but is not seen....
There was a time when there was no prescenc..."
how could we have existed without the prescence of science. Science is like the world. The animals of part of science. The Plants of part of science. Oxygen is related to science.
Hazel wrote: "Cerebus, its not the only alien life form with that similarity...http://cdn1.iofferphoto.com/img/item/..."
Larval Alien my brother bought a plush one for my oldest son when he was born.
http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/c534/
My youngest son got the one that bursts out of the chest
http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/e56e/
Personally I think my brother got them the wrong way round...
cHriS wrote: "There was a time when there was no prescence of grvity but we still remained stuck to this planet."Seriously cs?
Shanna wrote: "cHriS wrote: "There was a time when there was no prescence of grvity but we still remained stuck to this planet."As if. If there ever was such a time then we would all be floating around in the air and the earth would not be orbiting the sun.
cHriS Wrote :"Science spends most of its time looking for ways to correct it wrong doings."And if religion spent equal time, to the time you assert science does, to correcting it's wrong doings rather than covering up and diversions it'd be wonderful
Isabelle wrote: "Shanna wrote: "cHriS wrote: "There was a time when there was no prescence of grvity but we still remained stuck to this planet."As if. If there ever was such a time then we would all be floating..."
I was being sarcastic to cHriS/cs for the ridiculous idea that gravity didn't exist prior to it's scientific explanation/naming...
'Seriously cs?' Yes.
read it again :)
I did not say, gravity did not exist, I said we (as in mankind) did not know about. As we don't yet know about lots of other things that may exist already.
As it is not possible to live in a world without a science the choice is whether or not to include religion. All they denying or choosing in the world/universe will not get rid of science. Just butting in as I saw the subject and there are 6276 commetns before this from me.
Shanna wrote: " cHriS Wrote :"Science spends most of its time looking for ways to correct it wrong doings."And if religion spent equal time, to the time you assert science does, to correcting it's wrong doings ..."
Is this you agreeing with me about science?
In my opinion, science and magic both exist whether we "believe" in them or not. We can do without either or both but they are still there. Adherence to an organized religion and actions to prove yourself more holy than some other person or group have caused untold misery in the word and I would prefer to be without them. That is why I go to church at the Unitarian Universalist Church where all beliefs and no belief is sacred.
Thing is that a world without knowledge of science would mean a world without development.No light
No electricity
No guns etc.
Yes, development is hard to admire and would be difficult to do without.
Isabelle wrote: "Thing is that a world without knowledge of science would mean a world without development.No light
No electricity
No guns etc."
I don't think I could live in a world without guns. How would we fight our wars?
cHriS wrote: "'Seriously cs?' Yes.
read it again :)
I did not say, gravity did not exist, I said we (as in mankind) did not know about. As we don't yet know about lots of other things that may exist already."
Again utter semantic bullshit
"Is this you agreeing with me about science? "I doubt it
Shanna wrote: Again utter semantic bullshit "
Again, you misread a reply and when this is pointed out to you, with a smiley face, the best you can come up with is 'utter semantic bullshit'.
I was being sarcastic to cHriS/cs for the ridiculous idea that gravity didn't exist prior to it's scientific explanation/naming...
I think your sarcasm had backfired. Never mind it's not the first time.
I misread nothing, take your smiley face and tattoo it where the sun don't shine.Whatever you say cs...
Shanna wrote: "I misread nothing, .."Ok so you deliberately chose misinterpret what I said. Either way its rather petty.
cHriS wrote: "Shanna wrote: "I misread nothing, .."Ok so you deliberately chose to misinterpret what I said. Either way its rather petty."
cHriS wrote: "Isabelle wrote: but what if there was no prescence of gravity..."As in......A person or thing that exists or is present in a place but is not seen....
There was a time when there was no prescenc..."
and yet when we didn't understand gravity it still was there.
So, can you give me an example of 'god' that is there wether we understand/ have proof of it or not?
That reminds me: did we ever get an answer about an example that proves the quaraan having knowledge that pre-dates man that didn't use the quaraan as it's sole piece of evidence?
I got distracted by the Doctor Who monster from up page.
cHriS wrote: "Isabelle wrote: "Thing is that a world without knowledge of science would mean a world without development.No light
No electricity
No guns etc."
I don't think I could live in a world without gun..."
The Crusaders didn't have guns and they fought a bunch of wars.
Hazel wrote: "oh the irony."Delicious irony soup mmmmmmm.
Travis wrote: The Crusaders didn't have guns and they fought a bunch of wars. ..."
True
Travis wrote: So, can you give me an example of 'god' that is there wether we understand/ have proof of it or not?..."
I don't think I used the word god, did I?
Shanna wrote: "Hazel wrote: "oh the irony."Delicious irony soup mmmmmmm."
Once again Hazel to the rescue, with a slight of hand and a hearty Hi Ho silver and a cloud of dust and Shanna is saved from embarrassment.
cHriS wrote: "cHriS wrote: "Shanna wrote: "I misread nothing, .."Ok so you deliberately chose to misinterpret what I said. Either way its rather petty.""
My mother used to say to me "Shanna, don't argue with stupid, it drags you down to their level and then beats you with experience"....
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Sorry, doesn't work t..."
There was still scientific how should I say language in the book. (not the best way I could put it)
Even though the book is a religious book it still notes many things of which science notes.