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The Unknown Ajax Group Read May 2017 Spoilers thread
Abigail wrote: "I feel an obligation to speak up for common smugglers, perhaps because I’m currently writing a novel about a real-life smuggler from the late eighteenth/early nineteenth centuries. This was an illi..."Thank you Abigail, for sharing this info!
Very interesting!
When Abigail weighs in, expect to learn something!
Susan in NC wrote: "Emma wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Just finished, and I must say I enjoyed the book so much more thanks to you all! That final loooooong climactic scene always leaves me drained, it would make a heck..."Thanks for the recs. I will definitely try them. I was only vaguely aware that Heyer wrote mystery/ historical romance too. At least The Unknown Ajax is the first I've come across. To start with I railed against it a bit because I wanted another pure Romance. So I'm pleased that Heyer has a wider range.
My smugglers are a lot tamer than the notorious Hawkhurst gang, Nick! And thanks for your interest in my story, which is set not too far away—in southern Surrey—and some time later (in 1800). It’s the first of a series of stories connected only by location and date, not characters. I’ve just finished the first draft and will be seeking a British agent over the course of the summer, so publication is still a good distance away!
Abigail wrote: "My smugglers are a lot tamer than the notorious Hawkhurst gang, Nick! And thanks for your interest in my story, which is set not too far away—in southern Surrey—and some time later (in 1800). It’s ..."Please keep us posted!
So--Hugo is going to purchase an Army commission for Richmond. Now consider this--young Richmond has a very naive view of what it is like to be in the Army; he foresees battles, action, adventure, glory. This story takes place around 1817. England's wars with France and the US are over. England's Army (and Navy) downsized in a major way after Waterloo. Where is Richmond going to get his action and adventure? India? He is equally likely to be stuck in a peacetime billet in England (as was Hugo's father and Wickham from 'Pride & Prejudice')--where's the adventure in that?
Barb in Maryland wrote: "So--Hugo is going to purchase an Army commission for Richmond. Now consider this--young Richmond has a very naive view of what it is like to be in the Army; he foresees battles, action, adventure, ..."Very good point! I guess India could be hopping.
Louise Sparrow wrote: "I feel the need to stand up for Richmond and Hugo.The fault was with Lord Daracott. Richmond had grown up believing that there was nothing really wrong with smuggling and because everyone else ha..."
I agree. I think it went against the grain with Hugo somewhat to help a guilty person evade arrest, but I think he felt that Richmond's upbringing was a huge mitigating factor. I found Richmond to be an annoying brat, but I think Hugo felt that to punish him for his skewed perspective on smuggling would be unfair. It was Lord Darracott who should be taking the heat! I believe he also felt that Richmond was not beyond redemption, and that to ruin his life for his grandfather's negligence and wrong-headedness was pointless.
and South Africa was about to take off as well after all Major Smith (The Spanish Bride) ended up there (hence Ladysmith!)
Susan in NC wrote: "That's great - do any of your elderly relatives/neighbors know any local lore about smugglers?"Sadly no, most of my family moved here from elsewhere (Mum is Scottish). I don't think there's much local memory about it at all. Hawkhurst is a large village, but not quite large enough to support a local history society or smuggling-based tourism. If you go further south, Hastings has a great 'Smugglers Caves'. You get a tour through some dramatically lit cliffside caves and some ghoulish waxworks of men being whipped or looking furtive with barrels.
Barb in Maryland wrote: "Where is Richmond going to get his action and adventure? India?He is equally likely to be stuck in a peacetime billet in England (as was Hugo's father and Wickham from 'Pride & Prejudice')--where's the adventure in that?"
I kind of hope that Richmond does get a peacetime billet. Pretty much all the rest of the British wars in the 19th Century were colonial adventures - and I don't really like the idea of Richmond being part of the Opium Wars, or putting down tribal insurrections. :(
I think it would do Richmond a world of good being in the Army, away from his Grandfather's watchful eye, and surrounded by military men. He might learn (and mature) from some of the veterans the realities of war and he certainly will have men his own age to befriend. For the first time in his life!
Also, 'looking furtive with barrels' just makes me giggle!
Susan in NC wrote: "And speaking of that scene, anyone else kind of appalled that an aristocrat pitching a fit was enough to get rid of an officer of the law back then? Does set my back up a bit, I couldn't help think..."Oh, I think it still happens - kid from a good home, probably just made a mistake, we'll back off. The kid doesn't have to be from a famous or very rich family.
The reverse happens, too - kid from a good home? Hasn't even got the excuse of poverty or neglect! Let's come down on him twice as hard!
Sometimes, though, I think the old method of sometimes letting things slide so long as the family gets the kid into the armed forces or someplace else he can use all his excess energy had something to be said for it. It isn't strict and even-handed justice, though.
Susan in NC wrote: "And speaking of that scene, anyone else kind of appalled that an aristocrat pitching a fit was enough to get rid of an officer of the law back then? Does set my back up a bit, I couldn't help think..."That actually did happen with the Bush twins who were caught buying booze while still under the legal age. Malia Obama was photographed smoking a joint and twerking at a bash. It all got hushed up pretty fast. And of course in ancient times there was Ted Kennedy and the deadly car accident at Chappaquiddick. There is still one law for the hoi polloi and another for the aristocracy!
It definitely still happens. We like to think that the law is even-handed and always fair, but Justice is depicted blind-folded for more reason than just her impartiality. She's also been known to be blind at times.I'm of the school of thought which says that any time a law is broken, society breaks down. But, on the other hand, it's pretty hard to imagine turning your own child over to the law, especially if it happened to be an offense that rested in your own culpability, and if no one "was hurt" specifically.
I remember years ago reading about a mother who hid her son in her trunk in order for him to escape a man-hunt. He was running from a double murder. And I thought that no matter how much I loved him, I couldn't have done what she did - because it was a heinous crime, and he wasn't safe to be left at-large in society. But, I wonder just where the line would be drawn for most people...
I’d be of a mind to make distinctions based on the severity of the offense. Buying booze or smoking a joint while underage? Neither of those seems to deserve a permanent criminal record. But when it comes to that boy from a rich family in Texas who drove drunk and killed some people and his mother spirited him off to Mexico, where she paid for further partying? I’d dump them both in the slammer.Smuggling was highly tolerated at all levels of British society because the import duties were viewed as unjust laws. The government was taxing everything in sight in order to pay for its wars (and for its ridiculously profligate prince and royal family in general). Many of the people felt that while defending against invasion by Napoleon was worthwhile, the majority of Britain’s military expenditures were devoted to supporting its colonialist efforts around the globe, and people saw less value in that. The import duties, along with the seizure of food and materials to support the army and navy, badly skewed the economy, leading to scarcity and ridiculously high prices for necessities. Many in the laboring class ate only cold food because they couldn’t even afford coals to light a fire. In that context, the smugglers were doing a service, making it possible for average people to buy basics at an affordable price.
BTW, I’m not sure Richmond would be sent to India. My grasp of Anglo-Indian history is not good, but didn’t the East India Company have its own private army?
I wouldn't consider brandy to be included in "basics," but then I don't drink. :) Seriously, I was under the impression that smuggled goods tended to be luxury goods.
Brandy was big during the war, when trade with France was embargoed, but there were also killer duties and import controls on everything from tea to cotton (and all fabrics except wool, but most wool was sold to the military) to soap, and all of these items were smuggled as well. Basically everything that came into the country was heavily taxed through import duties, and everything produced inside the country was scarce because the military gobbled it all up. As a result, around 1800 the underground economy, primarily smuggling, represented 25% of the entire British economy.East India Company ships would sail up to smuggling hot spots, offload about a quarter of their goods to the smugglers, and then pull in to port to report legally the rest of their cargo.
Flour was one of the most heavily manipulated items: there were controls on what could be imported even in years when the British harvest failed; requirements to sell higher-quality flour only to specific vendors (who sold to the military at lower prices, while lower-quality flour cost more for the people); price fixing; manipulation of supply; limits on where and how far you could transport your crop, etc. etc.
It was also a matter of income. A person carrying a load for smugglers could earn as much in one night as he could earn in an entire week as a farm laborer. So people could afford to feed their families if they participated in smuggling.
And I should get off my soapbox already!
Abigail wrote: "And I should get off my soapbox already! "No soap box, but a very concise look at the economic realities of the era. I am a little more familiar with the early post-Waterloo economy, with the vast unemployment due to the reduction in the military forces. Add to that the massive crop failures in 1816 (the year with no summer), and the country was in a world of hurts. The Luddite movement was spawned by the power loom technology that made Hugo's grandfather rich, but put many out of work. The enclosure movement was also picking up speed, displacing tenant farmers on those properties affected.
GH very rarely showed the gritty side--for that you need to read Carla Kelly.
Thanks to both of you for fascinating information! That's why I love well-researched historical fiction and mysteries, I always learn so much.
Abigail, this is fascinating! Stay on that soap box ;) You are right about the British East India Company's private militia: they were in charge until 1858, the year after the Sepoy Uprising. Have you read Shadow of the Moon and The Far Pavilions by M.M. Kaye?
Barb in Maryland wrote: "GH very rarely showed the gritty side--for that you need to read Carla Kelly." A new author to discover! How fun. Any favorites, Barb?
Hana wrote: "Barb in Maryland wrote: "GH very rarely showed the gritty side--for that you need to read Carla Kelly." A new author to discover! How fun. Any favorites, Barb?"Oh, I love them almost all of them. However, 'Mrs. Drew Plays Her Hand' is a top favorite as well as the connected stories --'Libbie's London Merchant' and 'One Good Turn'. Also 'The Wedding Journey'.
I have not read the M. M. Kaye books, Hana, more’s the pity! But I have read a couple of interesting (partially) India-based books from the mid-century: a lovely novel, The Kashmiri Shawl, by Joanne Dobson; and For All the Tea in China: Espionage, Empire and the Secret Formula for the World's Favourite Drink, a lively look at how tea plants and tea culture were stolen from China and used to create a tea industry in India.
thanks for the suggestions, I love finding new authors to try.
Getting back to the book, my biggest complaint about it was the excessive use of 'broad Yorkshire'. I really disliked the long passage from John Joseph, and although I could guess at the context from Hugo's responses, and some phrases seemed pretty clear, overall I was really lost!
I usually detest dialect, but for some reason Heyer's rarely bothers me.
Whereas I'm a language buff, so any unusual dialect (especially when well done and well researched--and you can always count on Heyer for that) is a particular delight. Different strokes...
I remember starting Lorna Doone years ago and getting so annoyed with the dialect I never finished it. Have you ever read any of James Whitcomb Riley's poetry? Not my cuppa, either, just because it sounds so contrived and artificial -to my ear, anyway!
Hana wrote: "Have you read Shadow of the Moon and The Far Pavilions by M.M. Kaye? ..."If you have not read these books, you don't know what you're missing! They immerse you in the culture while keeping you on the edge of your seat. Size-wise, they're pretty major door-stoppers, but worth the time investment. They have a permanent spot at the top of my favorites list. I was going to name my son after the main character in Pavilions, but Ashton didn't sound good with our last name, so I named him Alex after the main character in Shadow of the Moon instead!
Abigail wrote: "Critterbee is right about the laws. Richmond was not caught red-handed, so it would have been very difficult to prosecute him. Discovering that he was the one who was shot would qualify, I believe,..."Peers had a right to be tried by a jury of their peers - that is members of the House of lords. there is a scene in the film Kind hearts and Coronets where Dennis price is on trial and you see the lords saying one after another 'guilty, upon mine honour.'
Abigail wrote: "I feel an obligation to speak up for common smugglers, perhaps because I’m currently writing a novel about a real-life smuggler from the late eighteenth/early nineteenth centuries. This was an illi..."That is very interesting. In The Talisman Ring we see how smuggling could be a lucrative local industry, with the gentry often sympathetic towards them.
Peers in England did have a right to be tried by the House of Lords, but "peers" in this context is limited to the actual title holders. In this book that would be Lord Darracott only, not any of his relatives (until he kicks off and Hugo succeeds to the title). Everybody else, legally speaking, is a commoner, though of course they belong to the aristocratic class.
Thanks for that clarification, Margaret! I’ve always wondered!
I find myself finding similarities between Hugo and Sophy in this book. I don't know exactly what it is. They both manage things very differently but they also are so self-confident and have a larger than life presence.
Amy wrote: "I find myself finding similarities between Hugo and Sophy in this book. I don't know exactly what it is. They both manage things very differently but they also are so self-confident and have a larg..."That's a great comparison! They are both very self-confident, both mischievous, and neither hesitates to shamelessly prevaricate when it suits their purposes. They are also both successful at "setting things to rights," as well.
Amy wrote: "I find myself finding similarities between Hugo and Sophy in this book. I don't know exactly what it is. They both manage things very differently but they also are so self-confident and have a larg..."Both are also physically larger than average, though it is their personalities that make most of the difference.
Amy wrote: "I find myself finding similarities between Hugo and Sophy in this book. I don't know exactly what it is. They both manage things very differently but they also are so self-confident and have a larg..."Yes, what a wonderful comparison! They both come into families that are disfunctional because the head of the family is mismanaging everyone and bringing out the worst in people, and then they both fix it!
a great comparison! they are both kind and want to help.
Nice insight! They are very calm presences as well. I’m glad Anthea isn’t like Mr. Rivenhall, though—I’ve always disliked him.
Abigail wrote: "Nice insight! They are very calm presences as well. I’m glad Anthea isn’t like Mr. Rivenhall, though—I’ve always disliked him."He's not my favorite, either!
I love Sophy, but Charles was not a favorite hero of mine, either!
Amy wrote: "I find myself finding similarities between Hugo and Sophy in this book." Perhaps because they are both used to taking responsibility.
Great comments, all! Personally I love that climactic scene, as long as it is. It's so fun to see everyone rise to the occasion, recognize Hugh for the insightful man and brilliant manager he is. and watch Lord Darracott get his comeuppance at the same time.I don't feel as badly for Ottershaw as I otherwise would because, as Hugo pointed out, he'd far overstepped his bounds and let his men shoot someone. Plus Hugo does mention to the family at the end that he'd told Ottershaw they would basically try to sweep everything under the rug, so hopefully this won't be much of a black mark on his career.
Vincent, I think, has some good qualities, but he's been warped by the family dynamics and his position. I like to think Hugo will figure out a way to set him on his own two feet and redeem himself.
Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽ wrote: "Great comments, all! Personally I love that climactic scene, as long as it is. It's so fun to see everyone rise to the occasion, recognize Hugh for the insightful man and brilliant manager he is. a..."All good points, and I do hope Hugo could help Vincent, he's such a miserable so-and-so!
I think Vincent will have to (& hopefully will want to) change.When Lord Darracott dies, he won't be able to get money out of Hugo (who is already doing something very generous for Richmond)
His mother & father could well support him into politics. A nasty tongue & quick wit could be assets there.
Incidentally is it stated how much it will cost to buy Richmond a commission? I'm thinking it was ₤10k which gives an eyewatering sum when I put it through that currency converter!
I didn't think it was that much. Remember in the Nonesuch Waldo offers to buy his cousin a commission and I think it's mentioned there but I can't remember. Guess I'll just have to re-read the book. :-)I'm only about the halfway point so I don't know if it's mentioned in this book or not.
How much did it cost to buy a pair of colours? It apparently varied "usually in line with the differing levels of social prestige of different regiments." 
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Georgette Heyer Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
The Nonesuch (other topics)Georgette Heyer's Regency World (other topics)
The Kashmiri Shawl: A Novel (other topics)
For All the Tea in China: Espionage, Empire and the Secret Formula for the World's Favourite Drink (other topics)
Shadow of the Moon (other topics)
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I'm actually from Hawkhurst, so it was weirdly fun to rea..."
That's great - do any of your elderly relatives/neighbors know any local lore about smugglers?