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Sylvester or The Wicked Uncle
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Sylvester Group Read April 2017 Chapters 1-14
Good morning!Please check in if you are reading along this time. Any first time readers? What format (kindle? Audio? Old paperback that was your mother's? Etc.) are you reading?
I'm reading an e-book.The line that I remembered best from my first read was Sylvester treating servants and employees well, as that made things easier and more proper. It shows that he's not nearly a bad guy - but he's missing something important. (Actually, there's another line I remember just as well - near the end of the book)
Hi Amy!I'm reading the Sourcebooks trade-size paperback. It has the most insipid young woman on the cover. My very first read was back in 1969--the Ace pb with a very Doris Day-ish rendering of Phoebe wearing a very bad hat! I've re-read it a number of times over the years. However, it has been 5 or so years since my last re-read, so I am really looking forward to this group read.
This is one of my most infrequently read GH books. I will be listening to the audiobook and this will be my third time reading it. I'm really excited though. There's really some outstanding characters in it.
I have an embarrassing pink Harlequin paperback—really must think about replacing it!I agree with you, Howard, about Sylvester’s character missing something important. He does remind me a bit of Darcy (given good principles, but left to follow them in pride and conceit, or however the confession goes at the end of Pride and Prejudice).
I have the 1970 Pan paperback - the one with the embarrassing misprints - several in the book, and in the list of other titles, the rather prophetic Spring Muslim! But I'll probably listen to it as an audio book.
My edition annoyed me by not using the book’s subtitle! It is supposed to be Sylvester; or, The Wicked Uncle.
I have the 2004 Harlequin edition (luckily not the pink cover Abigail mentioned), but it does still only have Sylvester as the title, no Wicked Uncle subtitle. I also have the Kindle edition and might dip into that if my eyes get tired and I want to blow up the font!I've only read it once before, several years ago, so I can't wait to dive in with the group. Thanks for leading the discussion, Amy!
This is one of my favourite books. I have a 1st edition Heinemann with a slightly tatty Barbossa cover. I also have two audiobooks. My favourite is the full version by Nicholas Rowe. I also have an abridged version by Richard Armitage. While I am a big RA fan from North and South, I'm less enthused about his rendition of women's voices. Also the abridged version has all the funny bits taken out :(
What a crime! Why abridge the funny bits out?! I first saw Richard Armitage in North and South on PBS as well and thought, oh my, he certainly heats up a costume drama, doesn't he?I'm only in chapter 4 so far and I can see where an audiobook performed by an actor who isn't wonderful with female voices would be missing a lot of the fun and humor. The scenes with Ianthe and 'Mama Duchess' (give me strength), Phoebe and her sisters and Miss Battery, Phoebe and Lady Marlow dominate the first few chapters, delightfully! Help me, group, I can't remember a Heyer that starts with such a female presence?! I felt we really see the POVs of both Sylvester and Phoebe, right from the beginning.
I would say that Arabella has a somewhat similar opening, with the good reverend’s family.
Thank you Abigail, I feel at a distinct disadvantage since I've only read most Heyer novels once or twice, and kind of in a binge- once I started about 10 years ago, I couldn't stop and plowed through everything my library had within a short period, so many of the plots run together in my mind!
I'm through the first few chapters, which are my least favorite. GH's books really follow the three act system and I always love getting into the second act - when the action starts. I'm amazed at how thoroughly we feel we know the characters after just a few chapters.
I'm reading Sylvester for the first time and very happy to be reading along with you ladies (and gentlemen, if there are any). I am reading the Sourcebooks trade paperback - I love the larger size and the period-appropriate covers.
My apologies to Howard - we do indeed have a gentleman reading along. I'm always pleasantly surprised to find a man who reads romances, although GH is more than "just" a romance author.
Pamela wrote: "My apologies to Howard - we do indeed have a gentleman reading along. I'm always pleasantly surprised to find a man who reads romances, although GH is more than "just" a romance author."I do have some male stereotypes - such as finding Heyer's talking about fancy clothing more amusing than interesting. Her humor is what I like the best though. And I didn't start reading romances until 1. My wife almost died in a car accident. 2. Some of my favorite SF authors mentioned how much they like Heyer.
I've read a couple of my favorite romances to my husband, although I have as yet to convince him to read any on his own. He has also watched some film adaptations with me. He quite enjoyed Jane Eyre (the old BBC version with Timothy Dalton) and Pride and Prejudice (again, the BBC version). Westerns are his favorite genre - he has read every Louis L'Amour ever published, I think.
Louis L’Amour is pretty romantic, in my view! Taking a broader view of “romance.”
Pamela wrote: "My apologies to Howard - we do indeed have a gentleman reading along. I'm always pleasantly surprised to find a man who reads romances, although GH is more than "just" a romance author."My DH likes to listen to her audiobooks. He, like our own dear Howard, enjoys the humor. He's a very diverse reader but tends towards the classics and likes how well the GH books are written.
His favorites have been The Grand Sophia and The Foundling.
He has great taste!
Most of you know this, but my late father was a huge fan. He started reading them as a young boy in the 1930s. I think until GH started writing the Regencys it was more acceptable to like her book. Simon the Coldheart was his favourite as a boy, These Old Shades as an adult. But I think he liked all the romances other than Cousin Kate.
I think I like all of the romances other than Cousin Kate.
Susan in NC wrote: "What a crime! Why abridge the funny bits out?! I first saw Richard Armitage in North and South on PBS as well and thought, oh my, he certainly heats up a costume drama, doesn't he?I'm only in cha..."
the Convenient Marriage starts with Horatia and her sisters discussing their matrimonial prospects.
Ah, just started and already we have one of GH's standard characters--the babbling companion. Hello, Cousin Augusta! The conversation between Sylvester and his mother re: Augusta is quite illuminating. Let us just say that Sylvester does not show to advantage.
I am up to chapter seven. so far I am quite enjoying it, though i have a distinct memory of not liking it the first time i read it many years ago. So don't know if I will go on liking it. Tom Orde is the best character, I like him very much. None of the other characters are particularly interesting so far.
Louise wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "What a crime! Why abridge the funny bits out?! I first saw Richard Armitage in North and South on PBS as well and thought, oh my, he certainly heats up a costume drama, doesn't ..."Howard wrote: "I think I like all of the romances other than Cousin Kate."
Thank you,Louise, you all are like Heyer encyclopedias, I look to you for ideas of what I might want to reread again, it's been so long for many of these titles.
Barb in Maryland wrote: "Ah, just started and already we have one of GH's standard characters--the babbling companion. Hello, Cousin Augusta! The conversation between Sylvester and his mother re: Augusta is quite illuminat..."I felt for Sylvester's mother - she clearly adores him and loved her husband and lost one beloved son already; I can't help thinking seeing such a character flaw revealed in her one remaining son would be emotionally devastating for her. Can't do anything once they are grown up, they aren't as likely to grow out of it!
Susan in NC wrote: "I felt for Sylvester's mother...Oh yes, her reaction just about broke my heart. For all that she doesn't have that many scenes in the book, she is my favorite character, by far.
The dowager duchess really shines at the end, too!I’m quite fond of Sibylla Battery. She’s such a sweetie, and really has the young people’s backs! Which they need, in that household.
I agree on both, so nice to see a loving, involved parent in a Regency-era book, especially among the highest ranks of the aristocracy. Miss Battery rocks, I love how blunt and down to earth she is - and she sees what a little sneak Eliza is, and isn't afraid to call it out while still staying on Lady Marlow's good side- no easy task, I would think.
Yes, she definitely walks a tightrope in that house! She’s kind of a hero for Phoebe and Susan.
the best bit so far is Mrs orde arriving to give Phoebe's father and stepmother an earful.
Sylvester is one of my all-time favorites, so I am looking forward to this group read and hearing y'all's reactions. Sylvester as a character is immediately revealed to us as a man who does the right things, for the wrong reasons. He is kind and courteous to his mother because he loves her. He is kind and courteous to everyone else because he knows it is in his best interests to do so.
In the same way, his self-centeredness is revealed in his decision to marry. Why? So that his mother will have a more congenial companion than Iante (where do these names come from! Heavens!). So that it will be socially acceptable and less confrontational for Ianthe to leave Edmund in his care.
He has no thought or intention of falling in love. He just wants someone who is well-bred and intelligent, who will not bore him. Sylvester is the original jaded hero, as his abhorrence of boredom is repeatedly emphasized in the opening chapter.
And, most maddening, he is absolutely confident that he can have his pick. The fact that this is very probably true makes it even more aggravating. As his Aunt Louisa says, "He knows his worth too well!"
Louise wrote: "the best bit so far is Mrs orde arriving to give Phoebe's father and stepmother an earful."That was very satisfying for us readers and for Sylvester, apparently!
Elza wrote: "Sylvester is one of my all-time favorites, so I am looking forward to this group read and hearing y'all's reactions. Sylvester as a character is immediately revealed to us as a man who does the r..."
And I couldn't help feeling in the first few chapters that he was being set up for an almighty comeuppance - and I'm enjoying it immensely! Just beginning chapter 13.
Also, having to switch between kindle and Harlequin paperback (love a 'real' book, but the tiny print is tiresome!)
Howard wrote: "Some of my favorite SF authors mentioned how much they like Heyer. "Which ones? I'm wondering now whether I could get into SF (taking the opposite route as it were). I suppose that the creation of an internally consistent world is something that Heyer and SF authors share (as does Wodehouse).
This is my fourth or possibly fifth reading of the book, and my second-hand Pan copy has finally fallen to pieces, with more than half the pages now flying loose. It's not in my top favourites, but I do like the idea of the heroine-as-author, though it's disappointing that Phoebe is probably not going to continue after her first foray into publishing. OTOH, I hadn't realised until I re-read it this time that Sylvester's mother writes poetry: so maybe she and Phoebe will support each other in their literary endeavours and Phoebe will publish more in the future.
Since Howard is a member of the same mailing list I am, dedicated to the works of Lois McMaster Bujold, I'm pretty sure she is at least one of the Heyer-loving SF writers he meant. Seeing that one of her books (A Civil Campaign) bore the dedication "For Jane, Charlotte, Georgette, and Dorothy--long may they rule" ... yes, I think members of this group might enjoy her books. :)
Margaret wrote: "Since Howard is a member of the same mailing list I am, dedicated to the works of Lois McMaster Bujold, I'm pretty sure she is at least one of the Heyer-loving SF writers he meant. S..."She is the first one I came across (and she is my favorite author). Another one is Connie Willis (who also has written romance in SF - as in her 2016 novel "Crosstalk")
Thank you Margaret and Howard! I shall look out for them :-)
Sylvester's mother is one of the better mothers GH has given us and Phoebe's stepmother is one of the worst. Rather like fairy tales of times gone by we see the wicked stepmother alive and well in this story.
The mother in The Grand Sophy was kind but scattered.
Arabella's mother was wonderful and kind but off stage for the book.
We never met Ancilla's or Waldo's mothers but based on description they were wonderful.
Mary's mother (The Devil's Cub) was awful but Dominic's was okay. (Opinions vary on Leonie!)
Pen's aunt was horrid.
Annis - can't remember? Was she okay?
Looks like mother's were a mixed bag. Am I forgetting any good ones?
Lots were dead - Abby, Sophy, Frederika, Kitty, Hero, Eustacie, Sally, and Annis.
The worst was a mother who never became a step-mother of Cousin Kate. And by the time she Freddy was married, his mother didn't matter in Cotillion.
This is my second time reading the book. The first time I read the Harlequin paperback and the cover was misleading. This time I am reading the second American edition hardcover from the library. I haven't read too much yet. I don't have a lot to add but I will agree that Sylvester is a very Darcyish character. He had a lot of responsibility thrust on him at a young age. His desires war with duty and duty wins. He seems wistful in the opening scene and admires his young nephew's freedom. He's very good to the servants because he knows he has to be in order to get them to do what he needs them to do; he's good to his mother but he seems unemotional. I know why because I read the book before but just from the opening chapter you get a sense of a very repressed, upright British gentleman. I do like the Duchess. She seems kind and warm hearted. She has lost everyone she loved except her eldest son and now grandson and her health. She wants her son to experience the same happiness she had in her own marriage. Her companion is a stock Heyer character much like the annoying Maria in LoQ.
Poor Phoebe. I remembered she was neglected but not abused. The descriptions of what her Mama does to her when she doesn't obey are just hair raising. Her middle sister, Eliza (?), sounds a bit like Mary Bennet so far. I like Phoebe. She seems smart and is an independent thinker.
(view spoiler)
Not a farourite, mainly because I think Heyer overdoes the wounded Heyero in Sylvester. There are other books, where we are meant to be sympathetic, because of their enormous wealth, influence and exalted position (see Alverstoke in Frederica, and possibly Sir Waldo in The Nonesuch). Sylvester is rude because he can get away with it, not because he's suffering from PTSD. Now Phoebe, whipped, confined to a fireless room and probably fed on bread and water was treated abominably, and she seems to have come through with humanity undamaged. If Tom had had a dead twin, I'm sure he would not be allowed to take it out on encroaching females, by setting out to make them fall in lave and then abandon them, their reputation ruined.
And that's as far as I can go withoutout spoilers.
I am rather pleased that the narrator Nicholas Rowe gives the Ordes country style accents - not uniform BBC English. Educated, but not stripped of local origins.
Sylvester doesn't think he's rude, normally. I like him as a character, as he isn't anything but what he is, with no excuses. He's not at all evil, but just incomplete. I don't want another Alverstoke, that has already been done.One of Heyer's strengths is that she is able to make very similar characters in similar plots different from each other.
Sylvester is easily my most read, and a firm favourite, I'm looking forward to reading through all the comments here.I have a very busy month and a couple of books I need to finish though so I probably won't start my own re-read until Easter.
Howard wrote: "Sylvester doesn't think he's rude, normally. I like him as a character, as he isn't anything but what he is, with no excuses. He's not at all evil, but just incomplete. I don't want another Alverst..."Very good points, Howard, you sum up Sylvester very well!
Rosina wrote: "Not a farourite, mainly because I think Heyer overdoes the wounded Heyero in Sylvester. There are other books, where we are meant to be sympathetic, because of their enormous wealth, influence and ..."i don't like sylvester, i think he's a pain in the neck, but i don't think he has any intention of ruining Phoebe's reputation, he wants to make her fall in love with him, but has no intention of doing anything to compromise her that i can see. phoebe's treatment as a child seems severe, but she herself says that her stepmother was never unjust, and punishments such as she received were commonplace in her day.
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Georgette Heyer Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
Sylvester, or The Wicked Uncle (other topics)Rondo Allegro (other topics)
A Civil Campaign (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Lois McMaster Bujold (other topics)Lois McMaster Bujold (other topics)
Lois McMaster Bujold (other topics)
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