"Sabriel" Finished Reading *Spoilers*

[Sarah]

So how was it? This thread will contain spoilers!

[Edwin]

Well, it didn't really work for me. Too much fantastical and silly magic, complete with bells and whistles (literally) and an ending that just seemed stupid: (view spoiler)[after all that build up, you throw an old ring on him? Geez. (hide spoiler)] 3 ambivalent stars.

[Ryan]

Some of the magic was deus ex machina, but the bells were fucking cool.

[Allison]

So, I read this the first time when I was 13 or something, which likely has impacted my impression of this book. But I do love the bells, and thought the part with Mogget really did a good job setting up later plot lines with him. I also really liked the categorization of Death, and the interesting pacing of the book which both felt unrushed and thriller-y.

[Kim]

This book definitely wasn't as good as I'd been led to believe. And maybe that build up was why I felt let down by it. I'd been pushed to read it for a few years and finally relented. It wasn't bad by any stretch of the imagination, but it wasn't that great either.

I have found book 2 was better, and book 3 the best so far. I haven't read any further yet.

[Chris]

It was fun exploring the author's world and lore. The ideas behind the magic and mythology going on were quite interesting to me. The actual story was pretty predictable, however, and it felt like it was almost just there to show off everything else. Like the world was a museum exhibit, and the story our tour guide.

I wouldn't have minded that so much--I love a good magic system--but the attempt at romance was just awful, and really took me out of it whenever it was focused on. And, as pointed out above, the ending was pretty flat.

[Allison]

Chris wrote: "Like the world was a museum exhibit, and the story our tour guide."

What a charming turn of phrase. I agree! The world-building IS this book.

Kim wrote: "This book definitely wasn't as good as I'd been led to believe. And maybe that build up was why I felt let down by it. I'd been pushed to read it for a few years and finally relented. It wasn't bad..."

Honestly I'd probably stop there. I am pretty sweet on the Abhorsen series and the last two books were a mega letdown for me.

[Ryan]

Chris wrote: "Like the world was a museum exhibit, and the story our tour guide."

I felt this way about the LotR trilogy.

[Jan]

This is a YA book and perfect for the target audience IMO. The romance is definitely understated, but it's not the main focus of the book. But for me as an adult, it's a pretty cool world and I liked the bells and the magical creatures and symbols. Although I often find YA a bit lame, I enjoyed this one. I have read the others in the series too and I liked the second book best - Lirael and her wonderful Disreputable Dog. The magical library of the Clayr where Lirael works is so cool, and the story unfolds beautifully in that book.

Allison, I agree on the last book - Clariel was pretty weak IMO too. I had to force myself to finish it :/

[Allison]

Jan130 wrote: "Allison, I agree on the last book - Clariel was pretty weak IMO too. I had to force myself to finish it :/ "

Yeah. That book never really took off. Goldenhand was better but...well. If you read it, let's meet over in the Goldenhand series read chat. :-)

[Simon]

Kim wrote: "This book definitely wasn't as good as I'd been led to believe. And maybe that build up was why I felt let down by it. I'd been pushed to read it for a few years and finally relented. It wasn't bad..."

This is good to know as I bought all three years ago, (when it was only the the three) forgot about them, left them in storage and dug out to read now for this.
I feel the same about the first book, though while reading I kept telling myself that it really is aimed at a teen/ YA and perservered. Not great but a decent read, and I have the next two to read too.

[Sarah]

I enjoyed this. I loved the bells but my favorite things about it were the more horror-y elements. I'm really curious about what Moggat is because the end makes it look like he was like... the bad guy. This was difficult for audio because of spelling. Anyway, it makes me wonder if he was an equally malevolent spirit.

I doubt I'll listen to the others but I'm glad I listened to this one. Tim Curry was amazing, also.

[Sarah]

I was thrown towards the end of this when she said that "Touchstone parted the grass like a ship through the Sargasso Sea." They have a Sargasso Sea, too? That was such an odd thing to put in there.

[Jan]

Sarah Anne wrote: "I was thrown towards the end of this when she said that "Touchstone parted the grass like a ship through the Sargasso Sea." They have a Sargasso Sea, too? That was such an odd thing to put in there."

LOL Sarah Anne. I don't recall that sentence. Seems like a bit of a clanger. Unless the Old Kingdom is supposed to be somehow connected to *our* world?

If you are intrigued by Moggett, I recommend bk 2, Lirael. You would love the Disreputable Dog (who also interacts with Moggett).

[David]

I just finished it. I enjoyed it, but that's about it. I don't read much YA at all, but this is pretty much what I expect YA to be.

Sarah Anne wrote: "I enjoyed this. I loved the bells but my favorite things about it were the more horror-y elements. I'm really curious about what Moggat is because the end makes it look like he was like... the bad guy. This was difficult for audio because of spelling. Anyway, it makes me wonder if he was an equally malevolent spirit. "

That's how I interpreted it. After all, you'd have to be pretty bad to be sentenced to an eternity of enslavement. Somewhere else in the book it mentioned that dead spirits could be used to bring things to life without that spirit itself having any consciousness, so I interpreted "Mogget the cat" as being a different "person" than the "Mogget the horrible demon" that animates it. Maybe Kerrigor-cat will similarly be distinct from Kerrigor.

[Chris]

David wrote: "Somewhere else in the book it mentioned that dead spirits could be used to bring things to life without that spirit itself having any consciousness, so I interpreted "Mogget the cat" as being a different "person" than the "Mogget the horrible demon" that animates it."

I thought of the early distinction between those who were bound (by the Charter) and those who were not. It's the binding that makes the difference between a decent person (or cat) and a monster.

[Ilona]

I am quite used to read YA but this one didn't work for me, I read it a while ago; so I am not that sure but I think I found the MC too cold or perhaps I expected more a sense of wonder and a more exciting book.

[J]

I also loved the world/magic system, but found the writing just adequate (and I read a LOT of YA). I'd give it 3.5 stars if possible on GR, but will probably round up to 4.

The edition I got from the library was an omnibus with the 1st 3 volumes. And while I typically find my enjoyment diminishes if I read multiple books in the same series in a row without interruption, I decided to just continue on to Lirael. I would definitely recommend making sure you have access to Abhorsen (the 3rd in the trilogy) before starting Lirael because the two almost seem to be parts of the same whole separated by a cliff-hanger and arbitrary volume length constraints.

[Valerie]

I would have loved this book had I read it at age 9 or 10. Alas, it was not written yet when I was that age. As an adult, it felt very much like reading a children's book.

The best part of the book for me was Tim Curry's narration. Everything else just felt kind of hollow.

Again, for the intended audience, I think the book would be fantastic. I am just not that audience.

[Christopher]

Overall, this didn't do a ton for me.

What I liked:
- world setting with an equator of Magic (although it's somewhat violated at the end... if technology doesn't work in the north, why can Magic work so well in the south, if it can wouldn't it be more pervasive?)
- Sabriel the character and her description (the bell belt was neat)
- Moggett

What I didn't like:
- Pretty shortly after Sabriel goes north she is being chased by an undead army nonstop, sort of felt too rushed to go from 0 to 60mph full on chase
- Touchstone felt like he was there mostly just to be a love interest, not a ton to him otherwise
- I know these YA characters are often orphaned to throw them in the deep end, but I would have liked for the father to have had a bit more time before dying off (also the name Abhoresen annoyed me, kept reading it as "abhor son").
- Didn't think the writing did a good job of describing the emotional impact of the conflict -- seems like half or more of Sabriel's school friends got killed off at the end there and it didn't feel like it mattered much to her, also her revival felt like the publisher saying "no we need more sequels"

[DivaDiane]

Anyone else ready to discuss this again? I just finished it, so naturally, I’m eager, but I know it’s early.

[Allison]

Perennially ready to talk about this lovely book!

[Anthony]

I’m diving in soon, and will happily join.

[Jemppu]

Oh, yeah, this. Will jump in too.

[Pixiegirl105]

Allison wrote: "Perennially ready to talk about this lovely book!"

Where's that Abhorsen series chat? :) I just finished the 3rd book and am about ready to read through the rest :)

As far as the first book goes, it was enough to draw me in. Totally loved the world building. Maybe a little formulaic but it's fantasy...only so far they can be unique.

[Meredith]

I enjoyed this, particularly the magic system and Sabriel's well written combination of competence while still lacking lots of knowledge. She was confident and good with what she knew, but quickly found how little that was in the world of magic, yet she kept at her journey despite that.

I felt like there wasn't a strong sense of urgency conveyed during the journey or in Sabriel herself. She said early on there was a time element (to save Abhorsen) and repeated it a couple times, but it didn't feel like that added any push to the characters. I did think the ending, when they crossed back into the 'regular' world built up drama well.

[Mary]

Pixiegirl105 wrote: "Allison wrote: "Perennially ready to talk about this lovely book!"

Where's that Abhorsen series chat? :) I just finished the 3rd book and am about ready to read through the rest :)

As far as the..."

We could create a series topic if enough of us want to.

[Kristin B.]

Meredith wrote: "I felt like there wasn't a strong sense of urgency conveyed during the journey or in Sabriel herself. ..."

This was one of the main reasons I never quite connected with this one.

[Anna]

Abhorsen series discussion

[Anthony]

I just finished and I felt so unmoved by anything that happened throughout. I’m trying to understand the various reasons why, but just nothing about it ever really connected with me. It was competently written, and there’s certainly some imagination at work in the creation of the world and the magic in that world, but it just left me cold. I won’t be continuing with the series.

[Anthony]

Allison wrote: "The world-building IS this book."

I’m coming to realize more and more that world building, in and of itself, does precious little for me as a reader if that world doesn’t feel synthesized with theme, plot, and character. I can admire something that’s cool and shiny, but in a book I need to feel the world and its impact on its characters.

Examples of fantasy novels that work for me as impeccable world-building exercises *and* hit all the other notes are the Earthsea books, the Broken Earth Trilogy, the Lord of the Rings Trilogy, and the Harry Potter series.

I’m getting grumpier and grumpier when my experience with some fantasy novels is that their authors got too enamored with their bells and whistles (pun intended — I’m looking at you, Sabriel!) and fail to synthesize all of the other elements.

[Allison]

Hmm. A shame that this book doesn't seem to age well, because I do feel the connectedness. The story IS about the world, rather than a character--it's the balance and separation of magical, mechanical and mortal worlds. I am not sure I can go so far as to say they're symbols, but everyone we meet is representative of that struggle.

It is very true that there is zero emotional pause in this story, with the few exceptions of the moments Sabriel engages with her parents directly. And in those moments, while nowhere near as poetic as Earthsea, perhaps we find a bit more approachable a way to discuss death with younger kids. I think I covered why I believe Garth Nix chose not to make Sabriel very emotional, and I think he grew more confident in his ability to write unsentimental and yet more rounded women in future books.

But of course I had the seemingly large advantage of reading this when I was the right age and with the right context for appreciating the deviation, and I can absolutely (though sadly) admit that without those two elements, this could be a very dry story.

[Anna]

I think this is one of those books you had to read at the right time, because everyone I know who loves it read it as a young girl, around the time it came out (I think). I read it as an adult, after hearing everyone rave about it, and it didn't do anything for me. I don't know if it was ever translated into Finnish, but I'm pretty sure I never saw the English edition in any of my libraries, either. I only heard about it after I joined GR.

I did like some of the later books in the series much more, the ones disliked by the people who love Sabriel :)

[Allison]

I'll concede the plot and progression and atmosphere aren't the strongest elements, but this is definitely one of the top 5 magic systems for me!

I will also say, I think most folks who didn't love Sabriel liked Lirael much more. It is much more grounded in the hurt and desire of the main character, the plot is stronger, and if you thought Mogget was cool, wait til you meet his counterpart!

[Garret]

I read this book years ago as a teenager, and it has been one of my favourites ever since! The magic system was always what captivated me, and of course, the sense of whimsy. I loved the whimsical nature of it all, from the plotting to the magic to the characterisation.

"This is a YA book and perfect for the target audience IMO," said Jan and I couldn't agree more. I wouldn't go a re-read this book now in my late twenties, not after having read the works of Erikson, Sanderson, Gemmell, etc. Unless you're really into YA as an adult, it's likely that the writing and plotting will seem somewhat basic to you.

I will always hold it fondly in my regard, and I won't read it again because I don't want to spoil the memory of it for myself.

[Meredith]

I am glad I read this and appreciate hearing the perspectives of folks who read it at a younger age and were impacted positively by it. Your comments give me more to think about regarding the story. When this book came out, I barely was looking beyond the mystery section of my bookstore. I've come only relatively recently to reading SFF and definitely am 'catching up' with important and formative books like this one.

[DivaDiane]

I don’t know, this was my first time reading Sabriel and I’m not a teen girl (by a long shot), but I still really enjoyed it.

No, it wasn’t the most emotionally gripping story, so I’m glad to read that his craft improves. But I absolutely loved the magical system. The literal bells and whistles for weaving the spells really tickled my musical soul. Also the fact that “Death” was like an actual place and the sequence of gates the means of transit (like a series of train trips) was very interesting for me.

I read this also with my 10 year old son in mind, considering whether I should encourage him to read it in a couple of years. And it gets a definite “Yes!” He doesn’t mind reading books with female MCs but I like to think that Sabriel is a good role model for him. Also, the discussion of death, as Allison said, is a good thing.

[Ian]

I came to "Sabriel" as a very experienced reader of fantasy (from circa-1965), and found it very enjoyable, although (I have to agree) too short to be entirely satisfactory -- fortunately, by the time I found a copy, it was clear that it was part of a series, and I was more than convinced to continue reading.

I thought that the characterization was just strong enough to carry the story, and the world-building, although intriguing, was a little skimpy. The subsequent books fill out the latter aspect considerably, with several turns I found surprising, but persuasive -- and quite different from my own speculations on where Nix was taking us.

I was intrigued by the treatment of Death as a realm, and spotted what might be influences, or might be Nix's independent reinventions (it doesn't much matter, since in any case he blends them persuasively). Possibly some Siberian shamanism for the Necromancers themselves Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy, preventing the Dead from troubling the Living, and, for the Realm of Death, The Ancient Egyptian Netherworld Books, notably the Book of Caverns and The Book of Gates (and a few chapters of The Book of the Dead).

And for some of the Dead, and their transformed states, bits of William Hope Hodgson's "House on the Borderland" and "The Night Land" (e.g. The House on the Borderland and Other Novels) came to mind.

[Pam]

Interested to read people's comments because I loved this book when I read it years ago, but now not so much. It picked up once Sabriel left Abhorsen's house, and I still love the originality of the bells/necromancy angle, but I didn't find the characters involving this time around. I was actually wondering if that was really her father she had rescued given his remoteness and wondered if it was a setup for a plot twist.

I had forgotten that Mogget's real nature is actually quite evil - after all, it tries to kill Sabriel the first time she releases it. so that is an interesting set up for the rest of the series especially in view of his new twin.

[Trike]

If this weren’t a YA novel I would’ve rated it 2 stars. But I cut those types of stories more slack, which bumped it up one. It definitely was far too long, though, with Nix being a bit too precious with his similes and whatnot. A tauter tale would have improved it for me.

[YouKneeK]

When I saw this was voted in for the March 15 re-read, I pulled forward the audiobook which had been on my list so I could read it around the same time. I just finished it yesterday evening.

Reading through this thread, I can see now how it might have a lot of nostalgia value, especially for people who read it at a young age around the time it was first published and found something unique in it. For me reading it now, it didn’t do much for me. I liked it ok, and I did like Sabriel pretty well, but I was never attached to any of the characters nor very wrapped up in the story. And apparently I lack a proper Tim Curry appreciation unlike many other posters in the two Sabriel threads, because my reaction to his audio narration was the same as my reaction to the book: ok, but nothing special. :)

There were a few things in particular that annoyed me at various points in the book:

1. I hate the trope where a character is kept in ignorance for no logical reason. Sabriel had a good relationship with her father and they spoke regularly. He knew he had a dangerous job. He should have told her from an early age about her future role as Abhorsen as well as some of the other things she would need to know if something bad happened to him. I felt like the only reason for her to be so ignorant was because the author couldn’t come up with a more logical way to create suspense for his readers.

2. The instalove between Sabriel and Touchstone was a minor annoyance, but fortunately it didn’t play a big role in the book and one can imagine that they were just melodramatic young people who think attraction to somebody you've shared a harrowing experience with equals love.

3. I didn’t feel like the magic system was well-defined, but I’m not sure if that was me or the book. Since I wasn’t very wrapped up in the story, and since I find it more difficult to maintain my full attention on an audiobook to begin with, I spaced out in parts. I may have missed some rules and explanations that would have given me a clearer picture of how it all worked.

... but I did think sometimes things happened out of nowhere without any previous reason to believe a magical creature or object would behave that way. A big example of that would be the ending with the ring. The ring, if I remember correctly, had Charter symbols on it. Presumably, since the cat upchucked the ring on demand, the ring was bound to Mogget in some manner since it was being used to bind him. So how did throwing the ring over Kerrigor bind Kerrigor too and not just Mogget who was inside of him? If the ring could bind other creatures, then all that time she was carrying it around, she could have randomly thrown it over the necks of various evil things they encountered and saved a lot of trouble. I guess we’re supposed to believe that it worked on both of them because Mogget was inside Kerrigor, but it just didn’t make sense to me, especially since a new ring was generated in the process along with Mogget’s ring, so now there were two rings. So the ring is apparently self-replicating and can make new rings and bind them to other creatures. Riiiight. :p

Maybe a future book will be about the Replicator Ring. Something goes wrong with its programming (or its magicking, or whatever) and it goes on a mad rampage creating new rings and binding all the good guys instead of the bad guys. There are soon rings for every color in the rainbow and then some. Sabriel must ring her bells in precisely the right combination to make the madness stop!

[Will]

I found this book interesting, a bit different and glad I read it, but in the end I felt it wasn't really for me.

Really interesting to read the comments below, I experienced similar reactions to those who couldn't really get into the book. But i can also see why those who like it, like it. It has a certain ambiance.

My review:

This book has a lyrical, classic style, almost like a fairytale. The characters and imagery are quirky and lively, simple yet with that touch of magic, resonant of deeper meaning. I found the writing really beautiful at times. It was easy to read, and a pleasant, touching, cosy experience.

The darkness never gets too dark, even the frequent encounters with monsters risen from the dead feel like they have a sense of lightness, and dark, childlike humour. This is not a gritty, tense or nightmarish book, rather a meandering journey through magical encounters. The characters are lightly sketched, and again even in their moments of extreme danger I didn't experience the fear with them, but instead I was detached and mildly curious whether they would make it.

The world and the story are discovered as we go through the book, without much prior warning or explanation, which felt like it added to my detachment. I had no particular understanding of the danger that the characters would face, or the possible means of escape, before I was told they were in danger because of a previously unencountered feature of the world. Then I was promptly told that the solution was to use the largely opaque magic system to solve the problem, by doing X,Y,Z, which the characters proceeded to do.

There was a unique blend of elements such as soldiers, monsters, magic, death, swords and bells that created a world with its own stamp. Some of these elements will probably linger in my mind for some time such as the rather sarcastic and hugely powerful talking servant cat who would gladly rip out your throat if he could escape the bonds that made him obey.

I enjoyed the book but only in a rather mildly interested way. Ultimately it was the sense of aimlessness in the narrative that held me back from engaging with it more. The story felt more like a series of curious facts that I was presented with, than an adventure I was fully invested in. I might be curious to read the sequels at some point but for now would rather move on to something that pulls me in more deeply to the story.