Does it take a spy to write about a spy?

[Paul]

I want your honest opinion on this. Right now I am in the middle of writing my first spy thriller, but I have this nagging feeling that I don't know enough because I don't come from an espionage or military background like Fleming, Ludlum, or Clancy. Is there some sort of rule of thumb for this when it comes to writing spy novels? I just want to know before I get too deep in this.

[Samuel]

Paul wrote: "I want your honest opinion on this. Right now I am in the middle of writing my first spy thriller, but I have this nagging feeling that I don't know enough because I don't come from an espionage or..."

Hello Paul. I have one, definitive answer to your question.

HELL NO.

For every writer who has come in from the business like LeCarre, there are hundreds of civilians who have written well received spy thrillers. Clancy who you cite actually had no military experience. He was nothing but an insurance salesman who happened to live in a neighborhood full of US Navy veterans when he began writing The Hunt For Red October. He built his multi billion dollar empire on the backs of the experience of those veterans and the US Naval Academy Library.

Not being a former spy or special forces soldier with a glamorous, enigmatic background is no obstacle to writing a spy novel.
Vince Flynn, the creator of the Mitch Rapp series was a bartender who had failed getting into the USMC aviator corps because he refused to cheat the eye exam. Didn't stop him from writing 13 bestsellers so well researched that he became the darling of the US Intelligence Community.

For civilians, it's a simple matter of doing homework. Read books on the subject, ask people who have been in the business questions about topics. Check on the internet and then double check with someone who has shed blood in the line of duty. There is huge amounts of information out there on the business of spying, killing and geopolitics just waiting for a good author to find it.

And if an insurance salesman from Baltimore Maryland could write a good thriller, then you can as well.

[Samuel]

Paul wrote: "I want your honest opinion on this. Right now I am in the middle of writing my first spy thriller, but I have this nagging feeling that I don't know enough because I don't come from an espionage or..."

Spy thriller novelists who haven't worked in the business and have written great books.

1) Vince Flynn
2) Tom Wood
3) Mark Greaney
4) Tom Clancy
5) Frederick Forsyth
6) Brad Thor
7) Kyle Mills
8) Elston Trevor.
9)Frederick Forsyth

[Paul]

Thanks! This feedback is truly appreciated!

[Samuel]

Paul wrote: "Thanks! This feedback is truly appreciated!"

My pleasure. Do not give up. Do not give in. Do not surrender. Seize the opportunity to write a good espionage story. And to quote one of the Moscow rules. Don't look back. You are never truly alone. If you need a hand with anything or any questions, I'd be happy to assist.

[Paul]

I will keep this in mind. I am glad there are so many groups here to help and support authors. This work ain't for sissies, that's for sure! Be in touch in the near future.

[Samuel]

Copy that. You know where to find me. Here or The Orion Team.

[DS]

I have a slightly different opinion:

I worked in the field for over a decade. Espionage is an art, not a science. Being successful the spy relies on both skills (knowledge) and instinct (gut). Using either one alone could get you into serious trouble.

The non-spies who have been successful as writers are highly skilled as writers. As a former spy, ideas of how the business works come easy to me. The places I put my characters are places which I have either visited frequently or worked. The conflicts my characters face are ones I have faced. And the cultures I operated within are the basis for much of my fiction.

While a non-spy could create the same basis for their fiction, it might be much harder.

[Paul]

D.S. wrote: "I have a slightly different opinion:

I worked in the field for over a decade. Espionage is an art, not a science. Being successful the spy relies on both skills (knowledge) and instinct (gut). Usi..."

Thanks, Samuel. Do you know of any non-fiction spy books that would be of help?

[Jim]

Paul wrote: "I want your honest opinion on this. Right now I am in the middle of writing my first spy thriller, but I have this nagging feeling that I don't know enough because I don't come from an espionage or..."

No worries. Just read, research and read some more. You can find anything these days...and then turn your story into a game that draws readers in. There will always be the odd expert out there who criticizes you for having a safety on the wrong gun but that doesn't matter. The story, the drama, the characters - that's what matters.

[Samuel]

Paul wrote: "D.S. wrote: "I have a slightly different opinion:

I worked in the field for over a decade. Espionage is an art, not a science. Being successful the spy relies on both skills (knowledge) and instin..."

Well. There's the following:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Very-Expensi...

A book on the cold war 2.0 being waged by the Russian SVR against the West.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/MI6-Death-Br...

A book on the history of the UK SIS (MI6 only endures thanks to the Bond movies but its employees do not call the firm by that acronym.)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Ghos...

A book recounting the history of the CIA's extraordinary rendition program.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyber-War-Th...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dark-Net-Jam...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intercept-Se...

Three books on cyberwarfare and cyber espionage


https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/cka/GCHQ-R...

A book on GCHQ, the British NSA and an organization that might just possibly be superior to the Shadow Factory across the pond.

https://www.amazon.com/Blackwater-Ris...

https://www.amazon.com/Civilian-Warri...

https://www.amazon.com/Licensed-Kill-...

https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Mercena...


four books on paramilitary operations which have become a major part of post cold war espionage. Some are glowering, others are scathing and at least two of these are dispassionate and neutral in their assessments.


https://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Kill-2...

This thing is more of an allegorical philosophy book with a bit of history thrown into the mix. It's about the principles one should follow to wage political violence efficiently, through the story of one of the most hated terrorists ever to have lived, a man who delivered the greatest operational disaster ever to hit the CIA.


Hope these helps and if you need any more advice, do let me know.

[Samuel]

Samuel wrote: "Paul wrote: "D.S. wrote: "I have a slightly different opinion:

I worked in the field for over a decade. Espionage is an art, not a science. Being successful the spy relies on both skills (knowledg..."

https://www.amazon.com/New-Spymasters...



But before that, read this as the jumping off point. It's a solid, primer of sorts so that you can understand the fundamentals and basics. I've got both on my bookshelf right now. Very useful stuff. The first item outlines what modern espionage is about, and the second has a lot of cool tricks for your characters to use when the shooting, gunfire and explosions start.

[J.T.]

Perhaps of interest to this group on whether it takes a spy to write a spy/ops thriller. Kensington is doing a promo for Buried in Black. Free stuff, and I would say odds are pretty good.
https://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/sh...

[Gideon]

Paul wrote: "I want your honest opinion on this. Right now I am in the middle of writing my first spy thriller, but I have this nagging feeling that I don't know enough because I don't come from an espionage or..."

Plenty of good spy books were written by authors who were never in the field - but many of them, like Clancy, were part of a disinformation program in the 70's and 80's. They were selected because they could write and could pass a Security BI, - then given access to the research they needed to write a good novel

- where do you think Clancy got the Frisbee idea -

it was the official cover story for the Armadillo project - the idea that it was shaped like a frisbee was leaked and given to Clancy for his books.

Just do your research - don't just sit down and try to write it - without knowing the game.

I spent over ten years in the field as a clandestine operator during the cold war, and the one thing I see in books and stories written by those outside the field is accuracy - they tend to try to use logic to craft their tale - the espionage business is void of logical constraints and common sense.

[Paul]

Sorry for the late reply. Thank you so much for your input!

[John]

Paul wrote: "I want your honest opinion on this. Right now I am in the middle of writing my first spy thriller, but I have this nagging feeling that I don't know enough because I don't come from an espionage or..."

I'm not a spy and my debut thriller novel is out today. I think enough technical knowledge is possible for us lay people if we are meticulate in our research.

More common is adjacent experience like former military as in the case with myself. That said, having technical knowledge and good research skills means knowing if you cannot craft your work.

Your narrative arc should speak to the reader as they visualize the journey of your characters, with emotionally supported imagery. Good work smithing is worth its weight in gold, once you know the publishing business or someone who does.

From Terror to Valor: Echoes and Shadows

John A. Mulhall

[Feliks, Moderator]

re: msg #3 from a long while ago, very early in this chat

Samuel wrote: "haven't worked in the business and have great books...."

I'm not sure what I'm seeing here ...maybe a copy/paste error? Several of these authors were deeply involved in 'areas of the business' which brought them first-hand knowledge. Samuel, I'm sure you're aware of this so I don't know why your list looks so odd.

4) Tom Clancy - obviously he was an authority on military technology
5) Frederick Forsyth - foreign correspondent, (African desk) and British operative
8) Elleston Trevor - RAF jet fighter engineer
9) Frederick Forsyth - doubly listed entry? This is what makes me suspect a copy/paste goof

If I haven't already answered the OP myself, I'd say life-experience is merely something which helps. Anyone can write anything if they set their mind to it.

Example: even Richard Wright once wrote a whodunit, totally out of his genre, and it was a dang good one too

[[deleted user]]

Two of my best friends are RPG gamers/game managers and they did play/direct a spy-based game scenario featuring two fictional CIA agents who were battling Soviet/Russian/Iranian agents around the World. Even though they never served in the military or in any law enforcement unit (one is an IT specialist, the other works in a furniture warehouse), I found their knowledge of espionnage world and spycraft quite convincing during our RPG games. So, you don't need to be an actual pro to understand or write about espionnage. I am a retired Canadian military intelligence analyst and I myself know quite a lot about the business of espionnage (I wrote two spy novels, which are advertised in my author's profile) but would make a bad spy for one reason: I am a fundamentally deeply honest person and I am terrible at lying. I would probably be caught the moment I show myself at a hostile airport passport check.