Art Lovers discussion
Introduce Yourself! Welcome to the Group!!!
Nate wrote: "Just joined Goodreads and have self-published our 1st art book featuring the art of the late Nate McClain who passed at age 24. He was my best friend and the Nate McClain Gallery is setup in his ho..."Hi! And welcome to the group! I'm a bit late in my welcome, I'm sorry. I will not bore anyone with excuses, but I would have been just as pleased at meeting you on Oct 28th when you posted as I am now! That is really neat how you published a book with the art of your late friend. I wish you much luck on your book and gallery!
Hello!I just joined Good Reads and upon searching for any groups to follow with members interested in art and most especially paintings, I stumbled across this one. I hope to learn more about art and its history with this group, and also to discover paintings by artists (and books about them) through the members and threads.
PS. Heather, I love your profile photo of Madame X! My favorite Sargent, but only after El Jaleo. ;)
Justin wrote: "Hello!I just joined Good Reads and upon searching for any groups to follow with members interested in art and most especially paintings, I stumbled across this one. I hope to learn more about art..."
Great to have you Justin! Thank you for your introduction! I'm glad you found our group. I find it fascinating, stimulating, educating, and there are many, MANY intelligent and educated members here from whom I learn a lot!
I hope you enjoy being here and jump in with questions, comments, anything you have to say in any thread is welcome! Glad to have you!
~Heather
Hello, I am Ellie from Bulgaria. 37 years old, web programmer. Librocubicularist. Pluviophile. Librophile. I like books, coffee, sunsets, music, photography, ice cream and doing nothing in a rainy afternoon or just sitting out in a summer night, staring at the stars and thinking about life, universe and everything. On a Friday night I prefer to stay home with a book and cup of tea rather than going out to socialize.
Ellie wrote: "Hello, I am Ellie from Bulgaria. 37 years old, web programmer. Librocubicularist. Pluviophile. Librophile. I like books, coffee, sunsets, music, photography, ice cream and doing nothing in a rainy ..."Ellie! So nice to have you join us! And what a wonderful introduction (and impressive words!) I had to look up the word
Librocubicularist...I know 'libro' and that's it.
I enjoy knowing about you personally, what you enjoy, your descriptive self-awareness, everything!
Welcome to the group! I hope you enjoy it, I do! And just a bit of heads-up, we go in spurts, a wave-in a way, of much activity, then little bits and pieces here and there as people's lives become busier. I look forward to you joining the conversations, or even just enjoying reading along!
If you have any questions or comments for me, you can PM me, or there are other threads in the Folder where you can post a question or comment if you don't mind others reading it, too.
Glad to have you!
~ Heather
Ellie wrote: "Hello, I am Ellie from Bulgaria. 37 years old, web programmer. Librocubicularist. Pluviophile. Librophile. ..."A fellow pluviophile! I thought I was the only one! Welcome.
Ellen who lives in Maryland in the US but who still identifies as a New Englander.
Thank you, Heather! I would like to add that I am not an artist in any way, I just enjoy art in all its different forms. So I am here mostly as reader, hoping to read and learn something new (to me) and interesting. Just like once, in another place, I learned the word Librocubicularist. I learned it and I fell in love with it. But I'll be honest - I can't pronounce it. :)
And yes, I will try to participate in the conversations.
Once again - thank you for the warm welcome!
Ellen wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Hello, I am Ellie from Bulgaria. 37 years old, web programmer. Librocubicularist. Pluviophile. Librophile. ..."A fellow pluviophile! I thought I was the only one! Welcome.
Ellen w..."
Oh! How nice! I also, thought I am alone... Thank you :-)
Hello!An interesting group for sure, and I look forward to exploring the site. I'm Sher a retired humanities professor living in rural Oregon USA-- musician -old time fiddle music. Train dogs for a variety of sports. Raise pigeons , donkeys.... Not an artist, but I have introduced my students to many artists' works over the years. Anyway, thanks for creating this group-- a great idea.
Sher! It’s so nice to have you! Your background in Humanities and knowledge of art will be a great addition to the group!I will say, this group is very diverse in that not all of us (me) are not as well versed in the subject of art but members like you continually enlighten me.
And thank you for introducing yourself. I always like it when new people give a bit of background into their life, to me you seem more ‘real’ than only an online social media entity. Of course, as members comment, we get to know them personally as well and it is really nice to feel like I have found new friends.
Welcome to the group, I’m elated to have you! This group is Awesome if I may say so, speaking of the members as a whole. :)
Thank you Heather- your enthusiasm is contagious.I'm not an expert of art or an art historian - my knowledge is broad, broad, but deep in few areas. My field was interdisciplinary humanities.
Sher wrote: "Thank you Heather- your enthusiasm is contagious.I'm not an expert of art or an art historian - my knowledge is broad, broad, but deep in few areas. My field was interdisciplinary humanities."
I majored in Humanities for awhile during my college education (I did change my major a couple more times after that) but my humanities classes were always my favorite courses. I took a summer semester abroad in Europe (a long time ago!). It really changed my view and feeling for art in many forms...architecture, sculpture, literature, painting, etc. Your profession was exactly what I aspired to for awhile!
I am looking forward to your insights on different topics based on what you know and have learned and your perspectives on different art.
Hi! I'm AG. I love art and creating it! I love to discuss it. I actually work in an art gallery.
AG wrote: "Hi! I'm AG. I love art and creating it! I love to discuss it. I actually work in an art gallery."Hey AG! Thank you for introducing yourself, nice to meet you!
We love discussing art, too so you are very welcome to the group!
And we have many accomplished artists, poets, authors, etc. here. This group is awesome if I do say so myself. I would love to check out your art, there is a thread for just that if you would like to share....https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...
It's awesome that you work at an art gallery! I'm sure you can contribute quite a bit to our discussions, I'm looking forward to your posts!
If you have any questions or comments for me, there is a thread for that in the General folder OR you can PM me anytime and I will get back with you!
Again, welcome!
HiI love art but don't know much about it...and am interested in learning more.I like Books , Food and Art. This group seemsa great place for learning something about art.
Hi everyone,I'm Serena, 16 and from the UK,
I am studying English Lit, Spanish, Geography and Economics for A levels, and art for me is more of a out of timetable passion.
I love the freedom that it gives, and that you don't have to be good at it to enjoy it, that it can come from something and from nothing, that it can calm you and make you furious. I love finding new art pieces, whether it be through a gallery, exibition, magazine, street poster, my pinterest feed, or in an old postcard in a charity shop basket.
When I went over to Italy last summer, I found some of the most beautiful pieces whilst exploring the various art museums such as the Uffizi in Florence, and the Accedemia in Venice. Sculptures so beautiful and angelic in such huge quanitites, and yet each one so so special and intricate it brought me to tears.
Heres a little insight: (can you see it?)
delicate cherub brushed ceilings, a golden glow upon the faces of each and every statue. That honey-warm sun, gave them an aura of life, gold dust fluttering through from the street below over the crisp copper window ledge. 𝘍𝘰𝘳 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘮𝘢𝘥𝘦 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘥𝘶𝘴𝘵, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘰 𝘥𝘶𝘴𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘳𝘦𝘵𝘶𝘳𝘯. Perhaps dust isn't the worst thing to have to return to.
I cannot wait to hear and experience all this board has to offer :D
Love,
Serena
Serena, I have a dear friend in England--we were at boarding school together--and I helped her daughter study for here A levels in art history--which she aced. You are clearly a citizen of the world. Hope you find much more time for art in your busy schedule.
Serena wrote: "Hi everyone,I'm Serena, 16 and from the UK,
I am studying English Lit, Spanish, Geography and Economics for A levels, and art for me is more of a out of timetable passion.
I love the freedom tha..."
Welcome, Serena!
I'm sorry this is a day late, I appreciate your self introduction and thoughts about art. That's why we're here and you're in the right place!
I agree with you on "you don't have to be good at it to enjoy it" because I am one who doesn't make anything! But I enjoy it nonetheless.
Yes, Italy is probably my favorite place in the world for art! I count myself luck to have been able to study there myself.
I'm really happy to have you in the group and look forward to your contributions. Thank you for jumping in already!
Hello there,I joined months back and have been meaning to post. I will do better on this next year as I brush up (ha! ha! - no pun intended) on variou artists / art movements in art histiory. When I've worked out how I'll do this I'll post more on one of the other threads in 2019.
Best
Inkspill wrote: "Hello there,I joined months back and have been meaning to post. I will do better on this next year as I brush up (ha! ha! - no pun intended) on variou artists / art movements in art histiory. Whe..."
Hey! Nice to hear from you anyway :) Welcome to the group and I'm glad you're here! I hope you enjoy it as much as I do, I really learn a lot from this intelligent bunch.
No hurry on your comments, If you have any questions on how or where to post something, you can ask here, in the other thread for questions, or PM me if you prefer.
Nice to meet you! Hope you had a wonderful holiday and this new year will be a great one for you!
~Heather
Hello Art Lovers. I just joined mainly because I have enjoyed many books related to artist and figured this would be a good site to find more amazing books. I do also enjoy artwork.
Hi Nora, welcome to the group!I'm certain our moderator will want to say something too, but she's very busy at the moment
(all explained in post 23 of the Terry Redlin Poll post: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...)
A couple of months ago she gave me the Pic of the Day thread to run, so now I'm here every day ;-)
You're welcome to comment or post and introduce some of the great books you've read, or you can keep yourself busy with browsing all these old threads (going back ten years!)
It may be a bit overwhelming I know: it took me weeks when I joined ;-)
Thank you for the nice welcome, Dirk. I actually didn’t even get a notification about this comment. Sorry Nora! Hello! Yes, as Dirk said I have a bit going on these days. Lol but I know everyone gets busy at some time or another. Life goes on, right?
That’s awesome that you’ve read some art related books! It would be great if you want to introduce them to the group! (Only if you feel comfortable commenting). There is a thread down the folders a ways where you can specifically introduce books. I know I like to know about other books, it is a favorite thing to do. And if you would like to share a link to a review you did—even better! No pressure at al.
Anyway, good to have you in the group and feel free to join in or only be a lurker (we do have some of those).
Have fun. That’s the point!
Hi, I'm a poet and short story writer. I also paint. My preferred medium of acrylic and I'm interested in figurative and abstract art. I took a few lessons in art - very, very basic - and I have since been learning by watching others and checking out art videos on youtube. It's nice to have an art appreciation group here on goodreads.
Shirani wrote: "Hi, I'm a poet and short story writer. I also paint. My preferred medium of acrylic and I'm interested in figurative and abstract art. I took a few lessons in art - very, very basic - and I have si..."Welcome to the group Shirani!
And thanks for your introduction!
There's a thread dedicated to poetry you will probably find very interesting, and please don't hesitate to share some of your work.
Also don't hesitate to comment on anything!
As Heather, our moderator will say: Have fun!
Shirani wrote: "Hi, I'm a poet and short story writer. I also paint. My preferred medium of acrylic and I'm interested in figurative and abstract art. I took a few lessons in art - very, very basic - and I have si..."Hello Shirani! Yes, I add a warm welcome with Dirks!
Thank you for telling us a bit about yourself, I always like to know more about our members. I think it's great how you teach yourself by observing others and watching videos. That's great!
I hope you can learn some things here, too!
As Dirk pointed out, we have several folders that may be of particular interest to you, I'll share the links here for your easier access if you want to check them out and add to them, help yourself!
Poetry: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...
Talent of the Members: (Where you can share your owns work with us if you want to) https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...
Picture of the Day > July 2019 - little history of Non-objective, or Abstract art (we have a Picture of the Day folder and Dirk chose the last two months to dedicate to only Abstract Art) https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Picture of the Day > August 2019 little history of Non-objective, or Abstract art part II https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
There is a lot to see here, I hope you enjoy the group with us and yes, Have Fun!
I love making art, and I know so much about a number of different media. Right now, I am at a stopping point on making books and art. I joined this group to spread an awareness of my books. Although I am heavily immerseed in work (spreading the word now), I am also interested in learning more about other artists/authors who do what I do. I like how you were so nice to me Heather. Thanks for running this group. I'm sure I will find something interesting to peruse here thanks to you!
That’s nice of you to say, Steven! I always enjoy having and welcoming new members, especially those who jump right in and immerse themselves in a thread or two with their own thoughts and knowledge to bring to the group, just like you did.We talk more about past and present famous artists and movements but we do have accomplished members, also. We have at least one (I’m sure we have more who are lurkers) well-known published poet, Ruth Bavetta, some of whose poetry you can find in the poetry folder, we have many artists themselves, several who own their own galleries, one I know isn’t active at this time as he is attending to other personal responsibilities (Ed Smiley), we have at least one famous photographer, (again probably more lurkers) anyone seen Geoffrey Aaronson lately? Several authors, John Karr and Jonathan Lopez (among others) for example, whose books can be found in the Talent of the Members folder, also in that folder other members have introduced themselves and their work.
I hope you do find some of what you are looking for here, and in the meantime enjoy the company and have fun!
Hello !!!!Newbie here, art student, art enthusiast. I'm currently studying in NYC and glad to be here. I recently did a presentation in video for class, maybe post it on Goodreads?
Hey! Welcome! Thanks for introducing yourself. Studying in NYC, awesome! You want to post a video? I don’t see why you can’t... there is a place here on the first main page of by he group where I posted a couple of videos, they were off the net. I am NOT tech savvy to tell you how to do that, but I’m sure you would know how if it is something that can be done.
So on the front page where there are those videos posted, go ahead and see if you can post yours, too. Don’t ask me how, though lol
Let me know if that doesn’t work or if only the moderator can post videos. I’m not sure about that.
Heather wrote: "Hey! Welcome! Thanks for introducing yourself. Studying in NYC, awesome! You want to post a video? I don’t see why you can’t... there is a place here on the first main page of by he group where I ..."
Thank you Heather - I'll try to figure it out - and let you know how I do. My presentation is on YouTube so perhaps I can embedd it? Not sure as I'm still learning the options here.
Brianna wrote: "Heather wrote: "Hey! Welcome! Thanks for introducing yourself. Studying in NYC, awesome! You want to post a video? I don’t see why you can’t... there is a place here on the first main page of by h..."
Hi Brianna, welcome!
You can also just copy / paste a link from YouTube here.
Really interested to see your presentation!
Dirk wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Heather wrote: "Hey! Welcome! Thanks for introducing yourself. Studying in NYC, awesome! You want to post a video? I don’t see why you can’t... there is a place here on the first m..."
Thanks!
I posted your video to the group, Brianna. I don't know how many people go up there to watch those videos, but now it is a part of us! Thank you for sharing it!If you would like to, you're welcome to also introduce it in the thread
Talent of the Members https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...,
Members to Members https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...,
or What's Happening in My World https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...
There you can explain it a little more to all of us. In fact, I would encourage you to post your video in the group somewhere in one of those threads, also just with your own commentary and introducing yourself.
Again, thank you and great job!
Thank you Heather so much -- I hope the video is up to good quality. It is mainly a compilation of rxanples of this art form from the internet, and using some copyright free content - but I'm very pleased you enjoyed it.
Ps I will announce it on the links (maybe just one, I don't want to come across "spammy")
Sounds good. Sure, just choose any one of those folders you want to post it in. I’m glad I could help, you’re welcome!
Dirk wrote: "Brianna wrote: "Heather wrote: "Hey! Welcome! Thanks for introducing yourself. Studying in NYC, awesome! You want to post a video? I don’t see why you can’t... there is a place here on the first m..."
Ps - Dirk hi again. I posted a link in "Talent Of The Members" but since you expressed interest, here it is, and thank you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a-wE...
Hi James, welcome to the group!I'm certain you will have a lot of fun browsing the old posts and threads.
The banana question is a tricky one, and I'm not a philosopher (just an average graphic artist ;-) So I leave that to the other members who maybe are better with words than I am.
One thought: maybe "beautiful" isn't the right word in this case...
And the fact that the banana, I think you're referring too, got eaten, is probably more significant...
Hi James! I’m late in my welcome, I’m not keeping up well in the group these days, hopefully I’ll get my life straightened out here soon. But I am not philosophical by any means, your question could have a myriad of answers But of course, that’s what philosophy is though, right?
A banana taped to a wall is beautiful to a monkey, who then will attempt to eat it. That’s my response. 😉
Welcome to the group, glad you’re here! Help yourself and peruse the past Folders and Threads At your leisure and if you have any questions or have any suggestions for me, feel free to send me a PM anytime.
Most of all Have Fun!
Hi Friends,I am Hari Prakash from Bangalore, India.
As it is, I am not computer-savvy, much less a tech expert. Add to this, Goodreads, though having an enviable membership numbers, is too confusing with groups, subgroups, categories, subcategories, etc., sometimes, overlapping and found in different pages.
I think solving the Black-hole or the Bermuda Triangle mystery is much less difficult than having to find the right group in the Goodreads homepage.
Having said that, I hope I am in the right group.
The second question is how to let others know about my work. Uploading in this maze is another herculean task.
Rightly or wrongly, I have uploaded three rare types of artwork (or, so I think) of mine on another user-friendly website.
They are
JESUS IS BORN.
THE RUSSIAN BALLET
THE GLADIATOR
Before you download the above, you may download a sample artwork of similar type which is titled as THE TIMED WILD.
Please visit www.teacherspayteachers.com and type “A rare type of drawing, (The Tamed Wild)” in the search bar and download in PDF for clarity of the image.
Wish you all a Happy Christmas.
A wrote: "Hi Friends,I am Hari Prakash from Bangalore, India.
As it is, I am not computer-savvy, much less a tech expert. Add to this, Goodreads, though having an enviable membership numbers, is too confu..."
Hello Hari!
You found the right thread to introduce yourself so you're doing well so far! I'm not tech-savvy myself and it's taken me a long time (10 years) to get this group to where it is now, and that's with the help of some of the members!
Well, I can help you out on which folder you can introduce your work and we'd love to see it! We have one specific folder where people can 'brag' so-to-speak about their accomplishments and that's great!
Here is the link to that folder and feel free to create your own thread.
To do that, click on the link and it will take you to that folder. Then at the upper right, it says new topic in green letters, click on that and there is a blank space where you can name your thread.
Here is the folder where you can show us your work:
Talent of the Members https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...
Feel free to just click on that link, create your own folder, and share with us anything you have created and would like to show off! I'm looking forward to it.
And, welcome to the group!
Hi! I'm an art student preparing to become an illustrator. I love classical figurative art. My favorite movement is neoclassicism and artist is Bouguereau. I am constantly reading and searching for books about art. I love to collect beautifully printed books. Some of the best books I own in terms of physical beauty are The complete Leonardo by Taschen, Andrew Loomis Hardcover books, Dynamic Anatomy by Burne Hogarth. As you can tell, I love anatomy. At the time of writing this post, I am reading Life Drawing by George Bridgman of which I found a 5th print at archive.org. I borrow books from there from time to time, it's a treasure trove and it's free. If someone could point me to how to use this group to find beautiful academic art books I'd be very thankful. I believe this is my first group at Goodreads ever.
-Arjun
Arjun wrote: "Hi! I'm an art student preparing to become an illustrator. I love classical figurative art. My favorite movement is neoclassicism and artist is Bouguereau. I am constantly reading and searching for..."Hello Arjun!
Thank you for the extensive and informative introduction! It's great to know so much about people and their interests, especially so we can try to guide you in the right direction, as you asked.
Yours is a tricky one. Hmmm, let me give that some thought.
As for how to peruse the group a little bit, I did 'start' a thread in this folder called Folders and Threads Updates It's actually the first thread in this folder https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
I started it in 2013 and it seemed to have little use and it was getting exhausting for my busier schedule so I didn't keep up with it, I quit doing it in April of this year, but there you have at least 5 years to see what Folders and Threads we have added. You can just look down that list of updates to the titles of the folders and threads to see if there are any that would be of interest to you. It should tell you where to find the thread in which folder. If you have trouble finding the specific folder, let me know.
At first thinking back over the last 10 years, I can't quite remember everything that we have discussed. We haven't discussed neoclassicism in depth anywhere that I know of, though we have touched on it many times here and there. Those will be a bit more difficult for you to find. So you gave me the great idea to begin a thread just for that!
We have a folder for Movements in Art https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...
where I will begin the thread for neoclassicism right now and you and anyone else can add to that for us all to learn more about it. I would especially love to read what you have to add due to your extensive studies and interest.
And collecting beautiful art books. Ahh, I love that, also. I have one of which I am proud that was a gift from a friend visiting Florence, Italy. It is a leather-bound version of Dante's Divine Comedy written in Latin. It includes black and white sketches, (I'm sorry I don't have the book right here to reference, it is tucked away to leave room for decorating for the holidays). It's about a foot tall and 1 1/2 inches thick in this off-white, older-looking paper. Geez, I wish I had access to my book! It's buried under my piles of books in my office behind other stuff!
Then I inherited The Complete Works of William Shakespeare, also in a red-dyed-leather cover with gold writing. It's huge! About a foot tall and about 2 inches thick. I revere that book as it belonged to my grandfather who passed just in 2016.
So, back to your post! That's a great topic also to begin! We have a folder called Books & Reviews https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...
Feel free to begin your own thread there and ask the group if they have any suggestions on beautiful books to collect. If you need help in how to create a thread, let me know.
I enjoy anatomy myself but don't have any 'beautifully printed' anatomy books. I have plenty of school books that I've studied over the years!
But you have some different and interesting subjects that really haven't been discussed in this group at length or at all in the whole 10+ years of the existence of this group! I'm excited for these topic's fruition! I hope we can all contribute and learn about these subjects.
It's nice to have you, Arjun. Welcome to the group! If you have any questions or suggestions for me, there is a folder for that in this thread or you can always send me a PM, I will always respond. Most of all, have fun!
Two events led me to love art, and join this group: 1) my family moved to Italy when I was six years old - a kind of reverse migration from the New World to the Old World, only to be surrounded by art; and 2) like everyone, I have a mother - and in my case, somebody who went on to become an interior designer and loves art. It was the subsequent introduction (on leaving Italy to return to America) to Rembrandt, in Amsterdam, that ultimately steered me to a particular interest in portraiture work and my professional expertise: being a facial coder.
Hi Dan,Welcome and nice to meet you!
"facial coder" sounds cool but I'm not sure I understand what it is you actually do...
Welcome, Dan! I’ve never met a professional facial coder before. So do you work for the government? What country are you currently living in?
Sounds like you have a colorful, exciting background! And no wonder you have an interest in art and I’m sure many other things, too.
What part of Italy did you live in? I lived in Milano for awhile and loved it, but there isn’t as much art there. I did study for school for a semester in other parts of the country, though and I know one is surrounded by art in Italy!
I’m excited to have you in the group and look forward to your comments! If you have any concerns or suggestions for me, there is a thread in this folder for that or send me a PM and I will certainly respond.
Welcome and let’s have some fun!
Hi! My name is Brea, I'm an artist and an art lover. I've been looking for a group to join on goodreads since quarantine has me feeling mostly unproductive, and I decided to see if any art related ones existed. Very happy to find you all! I've never been a fan of overwhelmingly active groups (you know the ones-- so many members that you don't get to *know* anyone, so many new threads being added per day that you get lost trying to catch up), so this one seems perfect for me. I look forward to talking about any art and literature here with you guys!
Brea wrote: "Hi! My name is Brea, I'm an artist and an art lover. I've been looking for a group to join on goodreads since quarantine has me feeling mostly unproductive, and I decided to see if any art related ..."Hi Brea, welcome!
I'm sure we're not overwhelmingly active with new posts and commentary's;-) Although the group has been around for more than ten years now. Catching up with all these old post took me months when I joined a couple of years ago.
There are a lot of threads (I'm doing the pic of the day) but everyone is free to join in and post stuff.
So once more: welcome and enjoy yourself!
Art Lovers
Books mentioned in this topic
Art from Your Core: A Holistic Guide to Visual Voice (other topics)Traveling in Wonder: A Travel Photographer's Tales of Wanderlust (other topics)
The Museum of Modern Love (other topics)
You Are an Artist: Assignments to Spark Creation (other topics)
The Collection (other topics)
More...
Wanted to say "hi" and will checkout the other threads as this seems a great forum for art related topics. Thanks for creating this group!