The Folly Irregulars discussion
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The Hanging Tree
The Hanging Tree--book 6
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The Hanging Tree--finished?
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carol.
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Dec 07, 2016 10:21AM
Finished? Let's talk!
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Not finished, but getting closer.Something I've been stuck on for awhile now is the Right Honourable Caroline Linden-Limmer and her mother Helena. It's implied several times that Peter's met Caroline in previous books--but which one(s)? For some reason, I don't remember her at all.
Mimi wrote: "Not finished, but getting closer.Something I've been stuck on for awhile now is the Right Honourable Caroline Linden-Limmer and her mother Helena. It's implied several times that Peter's met Caro..."
To be honest, I don't recall that part too. :-\
Unless the meeting happened in the graphic novels...?
Oh, could be the graphic novels. I was wondering about what happened to the Russian Witch, which was mentioned in this book. I think Mikhail said it referenced the graphic novel.Hm, I must have missed that reference about meeting her before. To be honest, I read a little fast. I was re-reading but didn't finish the re-read... I think I pre-ordered the audio, however (of course), so I'll have to get all the slow details then.
Mimi wrote: "Unless the meeting happened in the graphic novels...?"Oh, that's interesting! Can't wait for the morrow :)
The graphic novels look interesting, but I'm not much a fan of the medium so will have to sit on the sidelines and watch you guys have all the fun. :) Please let me know if there are an tie-ins to the main novels.
Carol. wrote: "Oh, could be the graphic novels. I was wondering about what happened to the Russian Witch, which was mentioned in this book. I think Mikhail said it referenced the graphic novel."I think he meant Varvara by that reference to the Russian Witch, but I could be totally wrong if there's a Russian witch in the graphic novels.
I think it's Varvara too.
Right? I think it was Nightingale who called her a witch in Broken Homes, and that has always stuck with me.
I can never remember her name, even worse because she had two names, one when we meet her with her elderly patient, and one when we meet her in Broken Homes.
Oh yeah. I forgot about that part. I always remember her as the lady who tells dirty jokes that don't translate well into English.
Lol I barely remember names at all... O:-)
Caro wrote: "Lol I barely remember names at all... O:-)"It's the first sign of old age ;))) Well, at least you still look good ;)
I'm listening to Broken Homes... she's quite the character. I like it when she's recounting her history and her days as a hippie.
What did everyone make of Christina Chorley's death? And how exactly were Olivia and Phoebe involved? I'm a bit confused about the way this murder investigation unfolded, mostly because I sped through everything not Faceless-Man-related once the big reveal happened.
Mimi wrote: "What did everyone make of Christina Chorley's death? And how exactly were Olivia and Phoebe involved? I'm a bit confused about the way this murder investigation unfolded, mostly because I sped thro..."Yeah, somehow she went to the second plan. :o
I'm often confused by the way murder investigations unfold in Aaronovitch's books. I've decided that he is trying to emulate the chaos of real life that gets distracted/involved in simultaneous events. It definitely takes getting used to, as I'm so used to traditional mysteries being pretty linear... talk to A, talk to B, do C, investigate D, talk to A again... etc. These are always more chaotic. Was Christina the original death in the beginning of the story? I assumed that was just an accidental OD.
Caro wrote: "Mimi wrote: "What did everyone make of Christina Chorley's death? And how exactly were Olivia and Phoebe involved? I'm a bit confused about the way this murder investigation unfolded, mostly becaus..."There was a second plan?
Carol. wrote: "Was Christina the original death in the beginning of the story? I assumed that was just an accidental OD."Yes, Christina's death was how Peter got roped into the investigation (because of Olivia's involvement). But I still can't figure out how Christina, Reynard and the lost book and mysterious engine tie into the grand scheme of things. Maybe it's too soon to tell.
This book feels more like a filler/place-holder the more I pick it apart. If not for the great writing, I think I would be more bothered by it not really leading anywhere significant in terms of story arc aka Lesley.
Mimi wrote: "There was a second plan? "I mean - she became not so important. Maybe I picked the wrong word to describe it. :)
Oh haha. I thought you meant there was something else in the book and that since I sped through it I must've missed it entirely.
haha no, you're fine!
Well, I need to read it again, but I seem to remember the drug carrier as being important... wait, wasn't all that the FM getting revenge on the people who led to the girl's death? Was it his daughter? (I really need to read it again).
Yes, his daughter. He blamed the drug dealer, Reynard, Olivia and Phoebe for the OD. But it seems strange to me that it took him so long to figure out what Christina and Reynard were up to (re: the black market sales of his precious books).
Whew, thanks. When I read what you wrote I thought all of a sudden I misunderstood everything.
Sorry for the confusion. I was going over my notes and they're kind of all over the place.
So was the plotting :D
What does everyone think is the significance of the title of this book, in relation to the story/mystery? Every title so far in the series references a big event or revelation or something in the previous books, but I'm having a hard time connecting the title of this book to the story, so I was just wondering what you make of it.
They met at the Hanging Tree? LOL when I think about it, I don't see the connection too. :)
Right? IIRC Peter said something about the spot where the Chestnut Tree bar sits used to be the place where the townsfolk gathered to hang criminals. And that's why the book is called The Hanging Tree??
Aaronovitch just likes to play with us! :/
He can play all he wants, but at least make some sense while he's at it.It's a nice title and all (and the cover is lovely), but what does it mean really?? *involuntary twitching*
Mimi wrote: "Not finished, but getting closer.Something I've been stuck on for awhile now is the Right Honourable Caroline Linden-Limmer and her mother Helena. It's implied several times that Peter's met Caro..."
It was in "Broken Homes". When Peter went to check on the County Guard Office. He found it empty with only a seemingly Somali cleaning woman wearing a suprisingly expensive hijab. I remember that the silk hijab struck him odd for a cleaning woman even than but being so focused on the Faceless Man he didn't give it any second thought.
This was where his jibe about cleaning jobs paying out so well came from, when Guleed told him about the expensive jacket.
I'm only at 31% percent right now, but this book has me thinking already about so many things. Lesleys reappearance, the new face, a "witch" specialized in magical healing... coincidence? I think not.
Ah, I see. Thanks, Miriam.So that's what Peter meant by the cleaning job comment in this book. It makes a lot more sense now. I remember that scene from Broken Homes, but missed the expensive hijab comment entirely, even during the reread. The dots just weren't connecting at all.
Interesting point about the new witch and Lesley. You may be on to something here.
Mimi wrote: "Right? IIRC Peter said something about the spot where the Chestnut Tree bar sits used to be the place where the townsfolk gathered to hang criminals. And that's why the book is called The Hanging T..."Oh, I just remembered---I think the Tyburn Road ended at the public square where the hanging 'tree' was. There was a throw-away couple of lines in there. I think it explained Tyburn's uber-practical approach to law-n-order.
I did it! Finished the book last night. And I really loved it. Having some difficulties to say something coherent about this book, though. There's just so many stuff in it. I love the fact that it goes way back to the first book to tie it toghther in the end. And I think I could risk an educated guess as to why Lesley is so important to the Faceless Man. Even though we don't now what he plans and why right now.
Oh, and I like the fact that the Faceless Man is not just plain evil but very obviously has things he cares for deeply. Otherwise I should think he would never have made the mistakes that let to his exposure. He seemed to be really shaken by his daughters death. Otherwise he would have never risked a heads on confrontation with both Tyburn and Nightingale. Although I have to admit I'm not sure if the one who attacked Tyburn really was him. The absence of vestigia of any kind seems a dead give-away, especially in the place of one of the River godesses. And I don't think ancient Sir William Tyburn really is up and about. Not with that undercurrent of Mr. Punch, that Peter felt in the Park. I mean, he has a history of sequestrating ghosts and mortals.
I think, als soon as I have aquired all audio books I will listen to them in succession with special regards to Lesly and the Faceless Man to really grab what's going on there.
So glad you enjoyed it--I think it might be one of my favorite books. Responding to your thoughts: I liked that the reason for discovering the FM is organic (rather than suddenly allowing people to discover who he is) and ties in nicely with the mystery. I also enjoyed the interesting side mysteries/questions, like how are the Tyburns connected. I also liked that there seemed to be some progression (at least mentally) with Beverly.
I do like that Aaronovitch also doesn't need to bow to series convention and include the whole 'gang' in every book.
I was wondering: What do those of you who have read the book already made of that scene at Tyburn's house where Peter noted that complete absence of vestigia of any kind? Despite all that heavy magic that has been thrown about there.
Ah-ha! I bet that was a Punch hint.
Carol. wrote: "Ah-ha! I bet that was a Punch hint."I'm even think it might be a hint as to the fact that Leslie was there. Peter said something about her "picking up magic as she goes".
BTW: what do you make of the whole appearance of Mr. Punch. After reading this book I pondered him for a long time and went back to RoL to look up where they though he came from. And the answer was less than satisfying. There is one paragraph in the last chapter (on page 382/3 in the Kindle edition), that said it might have been nothing more than a coincidence that all this had kicked of.
And since the Faceless Man considers Leslie vital to his plans because she once hosted Mr. Punch I thought that maybe he was behind it from the start. That he conjured up Mr. Punch/The Spirit of Riot and Rebellion for something. And that with Peter killing the spirit he had to resort to other means to get what he wanted. Hence his alliance with Leslie.
Hm, I missed the Peter's reference. Or actually, if it is the one I'm thinking of, I think I interpreted it as how easily it seemed to come to her, rather than the hours of formal study he puts in.I think Punch might be an ... idk what to call it. Archetype? Platonian embodiment of riot & rebellion? A essential mythic persona, like Coyote or the Trickster?
It'd be interesting to think the FM perhaps invited the archetype of Punch to 'come and play,' as it were. Explains why now and all that (given that everyone thought magic was dying out).
Carol. wrote: "Hm, I missed the Peter's reference. Or actually, if it is the one I'm thinking of, I think I interpreted it as how easily it seemed to come to her, rather than the hours of formal study he puts in...."It where many things that let me to believe Peter meant that "picking magic up" bit literally. Peter said in WUG that he was far better than Leslie in recognising and interpreting vestigia than Leslie and that the reason where not only, that he's been at it far longer. He never specified what the "real" reason for it was, but that struck me as odd throughout the further books.
Peter always said that recognizing and understanding vestigia is crutial to learning magic. So that seem like a huge discrepancy: On the one hand Leslie is bad with vestigia, on the other hand she learns magic with ease. She was able to produce a werelight in less than two weeks. Seemingly without anyone teaching her. She progresses much faster than Peter and is almost on his Level after only a few weeks where he had taken month for a single forma.
So maybe she's absorbing magic somehow. Similar to how Mr. Puch tried to absorb it in RoL. That would explain how she could learn so fast while being bad with vestigia.
What do you think about Caroline and Sahra Guleed's connection to the Folly in the future? I feel like Caroline might end up helping to educated Peter on the women's magic tradition and that Peter combining the old men's school + women's passed down + his new experiments will be what pushes him to an advantage over Michael Chorley.
And I think that Sahra Guleed is going to become a new apprentice OR in some other way integrated into the Folly's operations so that she becomes a key member of the team. Seawoll might be annoyed that they've poached another one of his protegees but then on the other hand everyone keeps complaining that the Folly doesn't have enough staff so...
I agree about Guleed, at least in theory. My guess is that she'll be reluctant--didn't she say something in this book about how hard Peter/Folly is on the constables? Still, she asks questions, she talks to Bev and given the fight with the Faceless Man, I'll bet she's not backing down. I've only read the first of the comics, but she is basically Peter's partner in the first.I feel like Caroline will fly away, following her own path. :) But I'd never rule out a return.
Guleed works with Peter all the way through the third set of graphic novels. She is still not an official member, though.
Ah, good to know, Fred. I keep meaning to get to them, but have to buy as the library system doesn't have a copy. :(
Another thing I've been thinking about from the last two books is what is being revealed about Peter's father. Maybe I'm misremembering some things but it seems inconsistent with the previous books. He's acting like his dad was an absent figure who paid him no attention and didn't interact with him. But although his dad isn't as loud and doesn't emote as much as his mum, we see throughout the other books that his dad talks to him and he brings up lots of memories of times with his dad, things his dad has said, lessons he's learnt from his dad, memories of putting away his dad's things etc. So to me it seems strange now that in the last two books it's as though his dad ignored him. If they wanted to bring up issues between him and his dad, that would definitely be believable because he doesn't ever seem hugely fond of him (though at least a little!) but this particular one seems strange to me. Am I missing something?
I don't know. I always got the feeling, Peter is rather wary about everything that concerns his Dad. Especially with regards to his latest "carreer boost". To me it feels as if he doesn't really trust all that's happening. As if he has seen him climb up the ladder and then fall just before he managed the last step one time to often. So he tries to distance himself in the hope of not getting hurt too much when it happens again, particularly since he has invested much in it. I always found this wariness and uncertainty belivable. I think he loves his Dad and has some very fond memeories of their times together, but he also has been hurt often and deeply by his escapades and drug abuse. I think Peter mentioned once, that his parents didn't speak with each other for over a year when his Dad destroyed his carreer for the third and so far final time. And believe me, that is a pretty horrible situation for a child, even if you are almost grown up already.
