The Hanging Tree--finished?

[carol.]

I suppose it might be how one interprets Peter from book to book, whose own feelings seem very subject to change on the topic of his dad. I love the complicated way Aaronovitch has their relationship. I think it was Moon Over Soho that we heard a lot about his dad's jazz, but then he was more uncomfortable in subsequent books--Broken Homes is where the Irregulars and dad play for the Rivers and Peter notes how much he doesn't enjoy the worlds colliding. Then in this book, he's softened up enough to contribute funds towards his dad's teeth, much to his own chagrin. I think he blames it on part of his African cultural legacy or something, if I remember right.

[Danielle]

Yes, I definitely find the wariness and uncertainty believable and think there are plenty of opportunities already established for conflict between Peter and his dad (e.g. his career, bordering-on-obsession-with-jazz, irresponsibility, personality clash etc). What is confusing me is this particular issue that has been brought up in the last two books that I find confusing (unless it's been mentioned previously and I'm misremembering). The absentee/ignoring-father issue.

[Margaret]

Mimi wrote: "Not finished, but getting closer.

Something I've been stuck on for awhile now is the Right Honourable Caroline Linden-Limmer and her mother Helena. It's implied several times that Peter's met Caro..."

Caroline was the cleaner at the County Guard office in "Broken Homes"

[Margaret]

Danielle wrote: "Another thing I've been thinking about from the last two books is what is being revealed about Peter's father. Maybe I'm misremembering some things but it seems inconsistent with the previous books..."

"Lord" Grant was a heroin addict. That made him an absentee parent by definition. He couldn't be relied on to be there when Peter needed him.

[Margaret]

The thing I liked about "The Hanging Tree" was the way it all twisted together.

Mayfair, where Lady Ty lives is the area where the gallows or infamous "Tyburn Tree" were. There is a placque on a traffic island that commemorates it... if you feel suicidal enough to play chicken with the Mayfair/Oxford Street traffic.

Twisted through out the story, even though you don't realise it until almost the end, is the Faceless Man... executing his own justice against those he feels responsible for his daughter's death.

"The Hanging Tree" is one of my top two of this series.

[carol.]

Agree, Margaret. I feel as an author, Aaronovitch pulled a lot of threads together and integrated characters in side stories fairly seamlessly.

[Margaret]

Carol. wrote: "Agree, Margaret. I feel as an author, Aaronovitch pulled a lot of threads together and integrated characters in side stories fairly seamlessly."

And started new ones.

I've been wondering what "the new man in China Town" is going to bring to the series. And if he will somehow tie in with Madam Teng from "Whispers Underground".

[Lata]

There was so much in this book! I loved it and am not quite ready to analyze, but I was absolutely shocked by Lesley's new face.
-I was happy to have the cleaner with the expensive hijab revealed, but how the heck did she end up at the County Gard location? What the heck was she doing there? I must not have been paying attention to her appearance in Broken Homes.
-I loved Nightingale's reaction to the legal situation around Caroline's gender.
-I was so happy with Guleed's increasing involvement with Falcon cases; my library hasn't purchased the comics so I don't know what happened in those stories.
-I like the circling back to Punch, and the skillful way Aaronovitch integrates little details throughout these stories.
-The FM's reveal felt earned and not splashy and sudden.

[carol.]

Margaret wrote: "I've been wondering what "the new man in China Town" is going to bring to the series. And if he will somehow tie in with Madam Teng from "Whispers Underground""

Me too! I'm hoping Madam Teng shows up at some point. I would love to learn more about a different approach to magic, although Caroline seems to be showing something different as well.

[carol.]

Lata wrote: "There was so much in this book! I loved it and am not quite ready to analyze, but I was absolutely shocked by Lesley's new face.
-I was happy to have the cleaner with the expensive hijab revealed, ..."

I assume Caroline was doing her own research into County Gard/Faceless Man. As a center of 'magic collection,' the estate would have been of interest to Caroline and her mom. I can't remember if they identified themselves as adversaries of the FM or not, or if it was just a matter of competing for information.

I like Guleed's involvement as well, although she seems ambivalent about it :D

Agree that the FM reveal was earned! I liked that a great deal--it was definitely not a "Scooby Doo meddling kids" moment.

[Margaret]

I think Caroline's mother will be FM's enemy regardless. He was carrying on the abuse of her healing magic that the first Faceless Man started. It almost goes without saying that they will always be on opposite sides.

[Miriam]

Lata wrote: "There was so much in this book! I loved it and am not quite ready to analyze, but I was absolutely shocked by Lesley's new face.
-I was happy to have the cleaner with the expensive hijab revealed, ..."

I asumed that Carolines mother did her own investigation of the FM since she was an enemy of his predecessor and this renewed activity regarding chimaere came to her attention. And so she send her daughter to investigate.

[Miriam]

I have been thinking about the rivers a bit lately and remembered the "big sister talk" Lady Ty was giving Peter about not hooking up with Bev and that they won't fit and stuff. And then I remembered her whining about how she would outlive her husband and children and grandchildren.

And then I thought of Oxley and Isis who we met in RoL. Oxley told Peter that Isis was once a human actress and he had fell for her and wooed her until she allowed him to take her "into the river". I remember she knew the ghost and the playwright who where at the center of the events in RoL from her time as an actress. So that must have been somewhere in the 1700s, which means, she is at least 300 years old.

Which means obviously there is a way for the river gods to keep their loved one from dying. So what exactly is Lady Ty on about? Or am I missing something?

[carol.]

I remembered Isis as well during that scene with Ty. I think that will have to be seen. Ben might have done some ret-conning. I wonder if the solution will be in the stages of their existence, Oxley being so much older and Ty being relatively new.

I mean, if Mama Thames was a nursing student who was going to kill herself, are Ty, Bev and Fleet biological children? If so, they really are Peter's age and as such, may not know everything (despite Ty's desire otherwise). I feel like the explanation might be that Mama's situation is different, maybe that Papa Thames had withdrawn by that point and the position for dominant river was 'empty., and that the subsidiaries are filled by biological family.

[Alina]

M. wrote: "Not finished, but getting closer.
[...]
It's implied several times that Peter's met Caroline in previous books--but which one(s)? For some reason, I don't remember her at all."

Peter and Lesley meet her in Broken Homes, when they check County Gard's offices and Caroline is pretending to be a cleaner, but Peter notices she is very tall, has an expensive hijab and an accent that sounds like she had an expensive education.

[EvilCartman]

Can someone please explain to me the line about "pushing the safety pin all the way through " when near the end of book, Peter is talking to the old ghost javelin version of Ty about Lady Ty being a disappointment, although to whom I don't know.

I mostly had trouble following that entire conversation. I guess the gist of it is that Javelin Ty wanted to recruit Peter to go on a rampage.

[Kim]

Cartman, I got the impression it was referring to Lady Ty’s punk rock days, but I may certainly be wrong.

[carol.]

I'm hoping Ronnie or Margaret jump in--they seem to be our resident experts :) Ronnie is especially good at contextualizing Britishisms.

[Margaret]

EvilCartman wrote: "Can someone please explain to me the line about "pushing the safety pin all the way through " when near the end of book, Peter is talking to the old ghost javelin version of Ty about Lady Ty being ..."

It's a punk reference. The year mentioned gives it away. Clothes made of garbage bags were fashionable. It was also fashionable to self pierce with safety pins!

But obvious Ty was prepared to go quite that far to be fashionable. Hence her not pushing the safety pin all the way through. She pinned the bag dress, but not herself.

[EvilCartman]

Thank you everyone for clarifying that for me.

I have another a clarification . My take on Nightingale's reaction to Caroline's legal situation is that it is an embarrassment that the government has gotten involved at all. One's own gender is one's own private business, and should simply be accepted as however a person chooses to present themselves ?

It seems a little progressive for somebody his age, however being embarrassed on behalf and because of the government seems quite traditionally British.

I recollect Patrick Stewart in Blunt Talk getting in a car with a transgender woman, and she explains that she has a penis. He says "it's OK I'm British". So perhaps it is traditionally British to simply except a persons gender as what they say it is.

These books are distinctively British and sometimes I feel handicapped by not being from there. I love it that you really have to pay attention, stop and sometimes go back . If you read fast or allow your mind to wander ( as I sometimes do when reading ) , you'll miss something.

[carol.]

EvilCartman, I think you analyzed Nightingale's take perfectly.

I thought it progressive-seeming as well, but then again, maybe Britain has a tradition of avoiding the sexuality issue altogether? I was reading a book set in the 1950s U.S. in NYC and the narrator was talking about the 'queer' bar.

I agree, I do love that there is so much 'meat' in these books and that second and third readings provide even more insight.

[Lata]

This series is wonderful for that. I get more out of each book each time I reread one.

[Margaret]

EvilCartman wrote: "Thank you everyone for clarifying that for me.

I have another a clarification . My take on Nightingale's reaction to Caroline's legal situation is that it is an embarrassment that the government ..."

The English have traditionally had a live and let live attitude.

There was a transgender woman who was a whore duringthe reign of Richard II. When she was caught at her business, the authorities were only interested in her customers, even though she could have been executed, because her body was male she was officially engaging in homosexual acts.

Later still, in the 19th century, was the case of Fanny and Stella, two young men who cross dressed, who were charged with "enticing men to engage in unnatural acts". They were acquitted in court and the police involved soundly castigated by the magistrate.

I didn't find Nightingale's reaction off. My family is English on both sides, and both my parents and grandparents both had a tolerant attitude towards seuxal orientation. My father telling me once that as long as informed consent was given, it was nobody's business who did what with whom.

[Lata]

I’ve read various British historical fiction stories where homosexual behaviour was seen in a negative light. Are these contrary to the norm and accentuated for drama?

[Margaret]

Lata wrote: "I’ve read various British historical fiction stories where homosexual behaviour was seen in a negative light. Are these contrary to the norm and accentuated for drama?"

I would say so. If you look at actual history, the prosecutions for homosexuality were few and far between, until the Oscar Wilde trial in the late 19th century.

In fact, the extremely reprehesive anti-homosexuality laws were drafted with the tacit intention of getting Wilde. He had pissed off too many people in high places with his sharp wit and barbed comments.