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Hanns and Rudolf
THE SECOND WORLD WAR
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WE ARE OPEN - WEEK FOUR - MILITARY SERIES: HANNS AND RUDOLF - June 2nd - June 8th - Chapter(s) Six and Seven: 6: Hanns, Berlin, Germany, 1933 and 7: Rudolf, Oswiecim, Upper Silesia, 1939 - (72 - 116) - No Spoilers, Please
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However if we discuss folks outside the scope of the book or another book is cited which is not the book and author discussed then we do have to do that citation according to our citation rules. That makes it easier to not disrupt the discussion. Thought that I would add that.
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Chapter Six: 6: Hanns, Berlin, Germany, 1933
Real problems begin for the Alexander family in Berlin (1933) - it was Dr. Alexander's good friend Otto Meyer who saved the day. Hanns and his brother face discrimination when they are thrown out of their school - the Waldschule. Bella leaves for England, Hanns worries that the family is not thinking hard about leaving Germany after listening to Rabbi Prinz.
Elsie gets married and decided to leave. Henny's parents leave for Switzerland and Paul accompanies them. Otto Meyer saves Dr. Alexander again by warning him that his name is high on a list to be rounded up and that he should stay in London where he is visiting Bella and his grandson. Dr. Alexander sought temporary asylum in England.
Hanns realized that he must leave Germany and he did everything in his power to make this happen. But obtaining British visas was increasingly more difficult. Leaving Henny behind became a reality and she was left to sell the clinic which was not an easy task. Finally the family was reunited in Kensington, west London. The family was still able to have all of their belongings shipped - a feat still possible in 1936.
The Alexander family was safe in London - but the situation in Germany grew worse. There was no turning back - their German naturalization had been revoked.
Hanns felt an immediate urge to act when he heard that his adopted country was at war with Germany. He decided to enlist.
Chapter Seven: 7: Rudolf, Oswiecim, Upper Silesia, 1939
Rudolf was working in Sachsenhausen when war broke out. He received a call from Richard Glucks who said that Himmler wanted him to set up a new camp in Upper Silesia near the small town of Oswiecim or Auschwitz as the Germans called it. And that he was being selected to run the camp.
Rudolf accepted the offer - he felt it was his last opportunity to work hard and to prove himself. There were no building materials to make this happen so Rudolf had to improvise.
Rudolf's family lived well at Auschwitz and were happy.
For Rudolf, work was unrelenting. Rudolf had complaints because as the numbers of prisoners increased - food became scarce and living conditions deteriorated. The guards returned to the "attitude of hatred" to control the prisoners and a euthanasia program was instituted because of an order from Berlin drafted by Enno Lolling.
Rudolf was summoned to Berlin and while at this meeting - he was told by Himmler - that the Fuhrer had given orders for the Final Solution of the Jewish question and wanted it implemented. And that all of the Jews that they could lay their hands on were to be exterminated."
Rudolf returned to Upper Silesia with a new mission but did not know how to achieve it. Two months later - one of his deputies came up with the idea of the gas chambers - he decided that he would use the new Birkenau camp for that purpose. Rudolf stated that his mind was at ease because he had solved the problem handed to him by Himmler.
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I have a friend who I met a few years ago through meditation practice. She was on one of the last, if not the last Kinder transport to England. To this day (she is in her 80's) she still trembles when remembering leaving her father at the train station. Her family was murdered at Auschwitz because her grandmother refused to leave and her mother wouldn't leave her behind and her father wouldn't leave his wife behind. Reading the section on Auntie Bing makes me realize just how hard these decisions were.On page 74 there is a quote from Goebbels that sickens the soul.
What this book does is bring it all to the micro level, and how the daily lives of everyone were confused and disrupted. Such sorrow reading this chapter.
On page 73, Harding writes: "Dr. Alexander was convinced that the violence would soon pass and that the German people would come to their senses. During the Great War he had seen the courage and honor his countrymen were capable of, and he was confident that the vast majority of good, virtuous Germans would stand up, just as Colonel Meyer had, and turn away from this Nazi madness." This leaves me wondering why that did not happen? What was the point of no return for the German people? I have to believe that they were not able to conceive of the extent of the evil that would unfold. As I read the chapter with the viewpoint of hindsight, I became anxious for the Alexander family to flee. How difficult it must have been to leave Henny behind.
When reading the chapter on Rudolf, I keep wondering what it was about him that didn't seem to satisfy his superiors. On more than one occasion, he is not looked upon favorably in keeping his position. In many ways, he appeared to be the ultimate yes man. And seems to have the confidence of Himmler, although I feel his admiration of Himmler is not really a two way street.
Donna wrote: "On page 73, Harding writes: "Dr. Alexander was convinced that the violence would soon pass and that the German people would come to their senses. During the Great War he had seen the courage and ..."I like your question of wondering why the German people didn't turn away from the madness. In a perfect world people would see what they are doing, whether it be genocide, blaming the poor for economic problems or the hostile battles of a broken relationship. But, we don't live in that world and most people don't realize their wrongheadedness until it is too late to prevent or correct their actions.
Yes, I too like Donna's question of why the German people didn't turn away from the madness. It's from the actions during WWI that made Dr Alexander so slow in reacting but hoping for the German people to come to their senses.
I think you make a good point, Helga. In Dr. Alexander we see a window into the German people a bit here. He was optimistic that things will work out, people won't take these laws seriously, wash away Hitler, and everything will be ok. How wrong that was.It is terrifying to see a civilized country like Germany enter such a barbaric situation.
I've been thinking about this discussion today and wondering how things would have played out for the Jewish families like the Alexanders if this was occurring today in a day and age of mega media and social media. I think that the German people might not have realized how maddening things were until too late because of all of the propaganda that was being thrown at them and at least for the people living out in the country, the lack of information. I honestly think that the general public didn't know the extent of the atrocities going on. I think that many Jewish families were like Dr. Alexander and thought things would blow over until it was too late.
Teri wrote: "I've been thinking about this discussion today and wondering how things would have played out for the Jewish families like the Alexanders if this was occurring today in a day and age of mega media ..."I think that's a good point, Teri, but I also think the same censorship that is happening in too many parts of the world today, with Twitter, for example, would have happened then. But then, the rest of the world would know, as we do today. Interesting speculation.
These two chapters were very thought provoking for me.One point that I think is very important concerning the German citizens and the Alexander family.
Hitler changed laws: He took away a very important law, Habeas corpus : an order to bring a jailed person before a judge or court to find out if that person should really be in jail. This made the public and everyday citizens powerless to what was going on. Along with the lack of correct information getting to the citizens.
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Hitler controlled communication and the Nazis were an organization that was fear based.
But having said that - historically people in oppressed environments have been able to rebel more than the Germans did.
I think that is probably one of the reasons historians find this time period so perplexing. Considering the number of atrocities and the level of genocide as well as the disappearance of all of their German neighbors - you have to ask yourself where did they think their neighbors were going and what did they think had happened to them? And all of these camps received supplies from outside - how could folks not know is the question that many cannot answer.
Bentley, I've also been thinking about how it must of felt to be stripped of your national citizenship. I could not image a power that could tell me I am no longer an American. Really hit me hard to put myself in the place of the Alexanders.
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Yes, Rebecca it must have been awful. Especially with the distinguished service of Doctor Alexander.
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Possibly Libby
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One of the reasons for Hitler's acceptance and loyalty by the people of Germany was that he presented himself as "we" ......in other words he convinced his followers that only he represented the interests of the people and that he was the personification of the people and the Reich. It was the idea of one people, one state and after the financial crisis of the 20s and early 30s, this was an appealing credo. It appears that the "good" of Hitler's promises outweighed the "bad" and his masterful use of oratory and propaganda kept the majority of the citizens in thrall to him.
I wish this thread had a "like" or "agree" button.Bentley, I think it is easy for "us" to say we would never allow anything like this to happen again, but I agree, we have to be constantly vigil about how things are presented to us by our leaders and media.
Bentley wrote: "One thing that I want to bring up but do not want to beat a dead horse - think about the Patriot's Act and the suspension of habeas corpus for folks accused of various crimes (including terrorism) ..."I know what you are saying Bentley. There is a saying to the affect: They came for those people and I did nothing, then they came for me and I could do nothing. I know that is right. A little help?
Libby wrote: "Teri wrote: "I've been thinking about this discussion today and wondering how things would have played out for the Jewish families like the Alexanders if this was occurring today in a day and age o..."I agree Libby. People, on BOTH sides, tend to swallow anything that the talking heads throw at them with out the least bit of thought. Hell, I just saw recently where people are saying that we shouldn't promote solar power because we could drain the Sun. And some people believe this crap. I think the amount of anti-Semitism and the horrible conditions in inter-war Germany, I'm sure if they had social media, it would be quite similar to how it is now, sadly.
The Germans that were anti-Nazi had an uphill battle against the heavily armored Hitler propaganda machine. Social networking would have made all the difference as no amount of controls today can completely cut off information leaking out.There were many in Germany, Jews and non-Jews, that went against the Nazi's and what they were doing...for example the story on pg. 73, when Colonel Meyer stood up to the mob outside of the Alexander's home and shamed them into leaving, then some time later warning Dr. Alexander to stay in London.
This is just one example of there being some bravery and courage during these times in Germany (the story of Elisabeth Abegg is a good external example as well). This courage was but a candle flicking against the backdrop of the fires growing out of Nazi fervor, but to those this courage saved the almost unnoticed candles were the light of God.
On a side note that relates to a point Bentley made in the week three discussion, the anecdote about the Colonel came in the perfect place as it followed Rudolf executing his "friend" in the previous chapter.
Rudolf was careful to keep the mass executions as hidden as possible. He didn't even want the other prisoners to know the extent of what was happening. In these two chapters we see how Hitler went from encouraging Jews to leave the country to instituting the "final solution". The German people may have thought that their neighbors were being escorted out of the country or taken to prison, but not brutally murdered. Himmler was clear to Rudolf there would be no supplies brought to him, even to build the camp. He had to build the camp scavenging old buildings in the area. I think it may have taken awhile for the full extent of the horror to really dawn on people. After all it's very hard to believe anyone could do what these men did.
The Alexanders were VERY VERY lucky to have gotten out and reading their individual efforts is quite enlightening. By the way Sherry..."It is relocation to the East"
By the way Bentley, your mentioning of the Patriot Act is not a dead horse; the Enabling Act of the Nazis after the Reichstag fire came to my mind right after 911. When the human animal is in a panic or riot mode it can be manipulated to perform some illogical and horrific acts.
Did anyone else notice on pg. 78?"So as the Nazi Party gained influence, Hanns was drawn, like so many others, into the Jewish world, not for religious reasons so much as for an explanation of the anti-Semitism he was experiencing in his life." and then "To protect themselves, Hanns and Paul joined a progressive Jewish youth group, who met each week to inform and educate each other on the rise of the Nazi anti-Semitism, and how to share ideas on how to deal with abuse."
Interesting that with everything bad going on, the young men were pulled back into the Synagogue to gain strength from their community.
It just goes to show you how the Synagogue can play such an important part of Jewish life. I think it adds a psychological comfort too.
It is interesting to read segments of Rudolf's memoir throughout these chapters. I get a stronger feeling he was trying to be apologetic with the memoir. You read about "obeying orders" "mind at ease" and how he dislikes certain prison treatment. There might be some truth in how he is feeling, but you also wonder how much can you believe. It is like many cases with memoirs...they are important to get your side out, but some are really over the top.
Bryan, I feel the same way when I read Rudolph's accounts. Easy to look back and explain away his action and choices.
I'm making notes in the book as I read. After reading one of Rudolph's accounts I actually wrote, "give me a break". :)
Bryan wrote: "It is interesting to read segments of Rudolf's memoir throughout these chapters. I get a stronger feeling he was trying to be apologetic with the memoir. You read about "obeying orders" "mind at ..."I had the same impression. I felt that he was polishing thing up to put him in a better light. Not to the point of absolving himself of anything, just deflecting the harshest of criticism to others. Kind of like politicians.
Harry wrote: "The Alexanders were VERY VERY lucky to have gotten out and reading their individual efforts is quite enlightening. By the way Sherry..."It is relocation to the East""
To what are you referring?
Sherry, When the SS were rounding up the Jews to be shipped to the great death camps they were told they were being relocated to the east. It was also the coded language between SS and on official correspondence. They were not to talk of the murder/execution of the Jews.
Where I live, televisions History Channel had a three part series called the World Wars. I recorded it and have just watched the first segment on WWI. It is actually two dimensional and slightly worse than a freshman year survey course, but it does remind us that the draconian measures of the Versailles Treaty were largely responsible for the economic meltdown in Germany, which was responsible for permitting the National Socialist Party to rise in power. My point for this book, is that it is not a survey course on the holocaust, but rather a review of the lives of two people on opposite ends of the spectrum who were involved in the holocaust. And as such taken in context, the knowledge that Hedwig was called the Angel of Auschwitz by her servants, many of whom were prisoners, was incredibly chilling, and all the more remarkable because it was meant in a positive light. This certainly was early on in the trajectory of this horror.
Even after reading this chapter, it is still hard me for me to figure out Rudolf’s thinking about using the gas chamber. I realize that he was given me a mission by his supervisors and probably felt that this was the best way to achieve it. However, I cannot imagine how someone mind could be at ease after agreeing to use the Gas Chamber on other humans. As I was reading chapter 6, I felt some very strong emotions. For example, I became angry at the fact that Doctor Alexander, despite a distinguished service record, was forced to flee to England.
I agree with Bentley that one of the worst parts of Hitler’s reign was his powers of Manipulation. This allowed others to go along with his views on the jewish race.
I wonder what happens to Rudolf's children...their father is a man whose mind is at ease once he figures out how to kill hundreds of thousands of people and they grow up at the most notorious death camp...did anyone else catch the location of the old crematorium? Adjacent to the villa where Rudolf lived? It scares me to see how easily one can go from hard-working farmer to mass murderer...
Bentley wrote: "One thing that I want to bring up but do not want to beat a dead horse - think about the Patriot's Act and the suspension of habeas corpus for folks accused of various crimes (including terrorism) ..."I have read and learned in past (forget exactly where but more than once) that Goebbels was one of the first users of propaganda tied to motivating people to change and support Nazism.
Well if we think about 911 and the attack on Iraq that had no established ties then or even established now with Al Qaeda as an outcome of hype how easy it is to see how that Hoss and so much of the German population could be swayed. It seems a bit radical and maybe unpatriotic and the Holocaust is big big stuff to be compared to Abu Graib but just a comment on the potential power of propaganda.
However that being said I refer back to the military/ moral responsibilities at the end of week one.
But just some notes of Rudolf. On page 105 is the first time we hear of a documented position against the individuals targeted by the SS when he refers to prisoners (not even necessarily Jews) as “untermensch” subhuman. But yet he permitted these people to be his house servants and caretakers and playmates for his children.
While on Rudolf I note however that he is showing his internal struggle with this lifestyle as he has his unhappiness and drinking and difficulties in family life.
But I think that for Rudolf the charisma of Himmler was enhanced by Rudolf’s desire/need for a father figure he could impress and be successful in front of.
I also think he took the benefits similar to an ex-pat big shot executive these days – house with swimming pool and enclosed garden – fenced for security – locals hired as help for the most basic of chores – in suburban America he would have expected a country club membership.
In the first of the two chapters of this section Hanns finally emerges as more than a boy He and his brother, under pressure, find ways to move forward. They leave the Jewish school - they partake in the German society as much as they can.My wonder is will we ever find out the hero of this chapter Otto Meyer will fare.
Page 24 illustrates the frenzy that was going in the society that must have been noticed even by the removed Rudolf.
My first real anxiety in the book was if Henny would get out - I really feared she wouldn't.
This shows how flexible people were. two chapters earlier what would Henny think of staying behind to sell the practice while staying alone in Berlin?
Hanns is going thru a real learning and maturing process. He has in this short chapter grown, gainer experience (several kinds) beyond school boy - matured - faced real challenges and taken on real responsibilities. At the end he seems to have found the courage to continue to do what he felt he had to.
I ask myself if I could have done that? could my kids have?
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finally my temptation to think that Dr. Alexander was irresponsible in not getting out sooner is diminished by thinking of all the Jews that did not flee at all.
Vince....Rudolf did have a country club membership...he had one built on the Auschwitz prop for him and the other people stationed there...
Great comments everyone.I was worrying about Henny, too.
It is interesting about Rudolf's children. They were at camp, somewhat isolated, but not totally as they had prison servants.
I wonder if they were old enough to begin to think about what was really going on...
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This is the first time I've read a book that discusses how Auschwitz was built. I've been there and could picture the remains of the crematoriums and the rows of barracks. Its not a comfortable picture. I too am interested to see what happens to Rudolf's children. This book is becoming very hard to put down.
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Jerome, sometimes folks in order to cope with the magnitude of what someone they loved very much did - are like you said very much in denial and just do not want to believe the truth - it would be too painful for them considering they are part of this man - who they knew only as their father.
I would like to visit one day.I think it would be very hard to live two lives side by side: mass executioner vs. family man.
The family house was across the tracks at site I right near the Sola River, which might give them some isolation, but I don't know...
Here is a map:
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The map does explain the possibility that they were removed from some of the "visuals" and horrendous operations of Auschwitz themselves. But I have to ask who did the children think all of the servants were around the house? They did use many Jewish inmates for a variety of tasks around the house - were they sheltered from that as well and how could they have been?
Very odd. It is almost as if the family assumed that whatever Rudolf did in Auschwitz stayed in Auschwitz and had nothing to do with their life.
Exactly, Bentley, and I will have to ask Thomas, but you have to ask did the kids wonder where did the servants go if they stopped working there all of a sudden...maybe not, denial is a strong thing...
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Bentley wrote: "Interesting map Bryan and a great visual for the discussion - thank you. The map does explain the possibility that they were removed from some of the "visuals" and horrendous operations of Ausch..."
Like Las Vegas - "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas".........
I have forgotten if there was any mention of schooling for the Hoss children- the children could not have been so fully sheltered I think
Would it be really possible for the children to think of the prisoners as sub human as the adult Nazis said?
Did Rudolf buy into that so strongly as to be able to come home?
Dr. Alexander believed that the violence in 1933 would pass (page 73). From our vantage point, we often wonder why people didn't see things more clearly and get out while they could...and also why so many would seemingly calmly follow Hitler to the end. But it must have been an agonizing thought process for them all, and of course they didn't know (as we do today) what was still to come. One wonders, if there was some great upheaval or disturbance in our country today, how many of us would willingly turn our backs on everything we've known, our whole lives, everything we've loved, and everything we've invested our lives in...and walk away in order to move to a new place like Guatemala, Japan, or somewhere else...where we would know no one, not know the language, have no history, reputation, or experience, and to start out again from the ground up... I'm not sure I'd be able to do that today...better/easier to hope for better things to come and to gamble on what I know than on the complete unknown and all the risk and upset that that entails.
The History Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The Yiddish Policemen's Union (other topics)The Yiddish Policemen's Union (other topics)
Hanns and Rudolf: The True Story of the German Jew Who Tracked Down and Caught the Kommandant of Auschwitz (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Michael Chabon (other topics)Michael Chabon (other topics)
Thomas Harding (other topics)
For the week of June 2nd - June 8th, we are reading Chapters Six and Seven of Hanns and Rudolf..
The fourth week's reading assignment is:
Week Four - June 2nd - June 8th
6: Hanns, Berlin, Germany, 1933 and 7: Rudolf, Oswiecim, Upper Silesia, 1939
(72 - 116)
We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.
This book was kicked off on May 12th.
We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle. Make sure to pre-order now if you haven't already. This weekly thread will be opened up on June 2nd.
There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.
Bentley will be leading this discussion and back-up will be Assisting Moderators Jerome, Kathy and Libby.
Welcome,
~Bentley
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