Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
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Is it time to stop "being nice?"
Linda wrote: "I have never been less than honest in my reviews. From someone who has already been there and done that: Be prepared for the backlash. Not to say that honest -- including negative-- reviews aren..."When I asked around, I expected to hear a lot about that problem - and I did - but surprisingly the concern for authors was cited just as often.
(Some readers told me they have separate accounts for negative reviewing, as the fear of retribution is too strong.)
Critically reviewing requires a certain fearlessness, as several reviewers have told stories of irate authors stalking and harassing reviewers who didn't like their books.Another factor is that most people want to be considered to be 'nice' (I don't, but I'm an exception), so people are hesitant to badmouth (other) authors and risk being accused of 'sour grapes' or simply being a 'miser' who doesn't recognise the effort the writer has made in writing a whole book.
The main problem stems, I think, from the respect one ought to have for anyone who can write a story, and the respect the writer should have for the reader not to publish his/her story prematurely.
Most of the crap books I encounter could be better if the author had used critique circles or beta readers to improve their craft and the story before they decided to publish their book before it was ready to be published. But, since they publish their unpolished drafts as 'books', I reserve the right to compare their work with real books and point out their flaws.
So far, every time I pointed out flaws, the author came with feeble excuses. I don't need to know why the author published prematurely. I don't care about the excuses. I picked up their book with the understanding that I would be reading a book, not an uncorrected, unpolished draft rife with errors, so that's what I put in my review.
As a reader I always read the low reviews, I find they are often far better written than obvious one-liner 5 stars that gush how amazing the book is.I prefer an honest opinion about what works, what doesn't and how much effort the author has put into providing a polished product. I've been burned and always use the "look inside" feature now to gauge the style and quality (and spelling/grammar!) before laying down my cash.
Unfortunately there is still the issue of authors who publish when they are not ready and then go postal if anyone leaves anything less than a 4 star review on their baby. These authors have not yet learned to distinguish their product/book from themselves and use reviews as personal feedback.
Until the issue of authors attacking reviewers is fully addressed I think you're buying a load of grief leaving honest reviews on such books.
interesting points made. I am a budding author, and amongst many others in the same boat. I see many reviews that are thinly disguising lip service. The fact is that bad reviews can cause you harm, no matter how well you write your respectful review. As a budding author I like to see this problem debated also. I am totally with the comment above but would like to know if he is also an author or not?
Martyn, I have to ask: have you received a lot of backlash from these practices? A.W., what would you propose as a way to curb the negative effects of negative reviews?
As a reader, I read the one star reviews first. I typically find them to be the most passionate, apart from glowing 5 star reviews. And I can easily look and see if what they complain about are things that would bother me. If they would, I will probably not read the book. If they don't bug me, then I will proceed.I will never sacrifice my true and honest feelings about a book out of fear of retribution or to protect the author's feelings. A book is a product, once that product is out in the world the author can no longer control how it is perceived. If the author didn't want honest feedback then they never should have published it. And yes, I have had authors try and attack me for my opinions but at the end of the day that tells people more about them than it does about me. It's not fun to be attacked for my opinion and I've seen a lot of my friends get it a hell of a lot worse than I have. But it won't stop me from reviewing honestly
Linda wrote: "And thanks, Jen, for starting this thread. It may be just you and I for a while, but I suspect others will join in. It may get interesting! ;-)"I'm glad to have the company, Linda!
I dont like getting negative reviews but as you've all said...if I've released it then it is open season. No one forced me to release a less than stellar effort. I decided when to upload it and so I have to face the consequences.The worst situation I have found is The I'll review yours if you review mine.
Godawful...don't do it!
One review it was clear they hadn't read it it and two on the receiving end..I got one to review that was an awful mish mash and I didn't know what to say so wrote a wussy luke warm review.
Say what you must
It's the only way I as an author will learn
( and that goes for you can't please everybody too)
Arabella, I've heard of this issue. Authors trading reviews might just be the worst practice on Goodreads. It invariably results in undeserved praise, and a blow to the reputation of any author recommending only to avoid backlash.
Whenever I hear about 'backlash' on bad reviews, I wonder what is going on. Ultimately it's all subjective and it's up to the reader. Retribution? How? Why?
E.G., I've heard of authors using "friends" to give a reader a hard time, stalking them on FB, voting down Amazon reviews, etc.
Recent example:A friend of mine wrote a negative review and posted to Amazon. Within twelve hours, two "readers" who'd reviewed nothing but this author's work criticized her in the comments section, and many of this friend's other reviews suddenly received many "not helpful" votes.
I am a relatively new author and enjoy reading and reviewing books on goodreads also. It is certainly hard emotionally when I receive a low review, but that comes with the territory. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. I know I don't like everything I read either. I have written less-than-stellar reviews myself. I don't think authors should have the right to try and censor reviews. That's just wrong, and trust me when I say that complaining about bad reviews won't sit well with readers either. Neither will trading reviews. Authors just risk alienating their audience when they do that. Readers are smart enough to figure out these things. I just concentrate on writing what I like and putting out a product I am proud of. If an author publishes something, he/she should not pitch a fit when someone doesn't like it.
There might be an exception to this. I do think authors and other readers have the right to complain about reviews that contain inflammatory hate speech. That is just wrong, period. I have never had that problem, however, but have seen it happen.
I still feel guilty, however, for voting for my own books on a couple of listopia lists. Is this ethically wrong for an author to do?
Kees wrote: "The fact is that bad reviews can cause you harm, no matter how well you write your respectful review"How exactly does a bad review harm an author?
Go look at the thousands of 1 star reviews on the Harry Potter books, how harmed is JK Rowling?
Jen wrote: "Recent example:A friend of mine wrote a negative review and posted to Amazon. Within twelve hours, two "readers" who'd reviewed nothing but this author's work criticized her in the comments secti..."
Wow. That's scary. It's also weird. Who has that kind of time?
Jen wrote: "A.W., what would you propose as a way to curb the negative effects of negative reviews?"I honestly don't how you combat it, Jen. You almost need to ban authors from the site! lol Or perhaps block an author from reading/commenting on reviews of their books. Personally I think there needs to be more peer pressure from authors on those who misbehave (and at the end of the day bring all authors into disrepute) but that raises the issue of author vs author.
Maybe there needs to be a code of conduct for authors, they could pledge that:
yes they have used an editor
yes they understand reviews are for readers and not for personal feedback and pats on the head
yes they understand readers rights to express themselves in a review, whatever the rating.
Or something similar. If an author doesn't sign the pledge it might be a first hint to reviewers they will go postal and hound them on social media if they don't get a gushing 5-star review ;)
Linda wrote: "Too many readers are turning away from anything that's not traditionally published because they've been burned too often by over-hyped and falsely-praised author-published work. Maybe if readers are warned ahead of time where the bad stuff is, they'll keep looking for -- and finding! -- the good stuff. And maybe with enough DIScouragement, authors will stop publishing before they and their books are ready to be published."I've never heard of fiverr before. I'm suitably disgusted. This is why, I think, it's so important for honest readers to post when they stumble on a "bad" book. More and more readers are paying attention to the one-star reviews. Unfortunately, there aren't enough willing to write them.
I started a project a while ago because I was looking to bring attention to QUALITY self-published titles. Too many readers ARE rejecting anything that doesn't come from a mainstream publisher, when there are some truly terrific indie books out there.
Between the fear of wounding others, and the danger of retribution, I've had a hard time recruiting readers. I understand this. I'm just not altogether sure what to do about it. The "good" books SHOULD be promoted, and the "prematurely published" ones should come with a warning.
Linda wrote: "One of the issues both readers and writers have to contend with is the commercial reviews, by which I mean the paid-for reviews that come from sites like fiverr.com. Hello!
I've done ghostwritin..."
Is the whole 'reviews sell books' really true? I can understand how a positive mention in a big news outlet would help, but how many people buy books based on amazon or goodreads reviews?
I'm a huge fan of the 'preview' and 'free sample' features. I can download a bunch that look good, and then review the first chapter or so at my leisure. I usually delete 3 or 4 samples for everyone I buy.
A.W., that's an idea with serious merit. If Goodreads blocked authors from commenting on their reviews, it would stop much of this.
Jen wrote: "A.W., that's an edit with serious merit. If Goodreads blocked authors from commenting on their reviews, it would stop much of this."I can comment on reviews of my books? Really? That does not make a lot of sense. Amazon won't even let me vote on the usefulness of the reviews I post.
Funny, I'm reading this thread just after seeing an author throw a tantrum by copy/pasting the same hateful message on 12 "bad" reviews from someone I follow. How interesting, though, that the author conveniently didn't post anything on the 4-5 stars reviews from that same reviewer.1*/2* reviews don't harm authors. What harms authors IMHO is the authors themselves, when they obviously can't take the heat, and foam at the mouth as soon as someone dares say their "baby" isn't the cutest wee little thing in the world. *sighs*
I think that anyone should be able to put an honest review of a book online. If they loved it, they should say so. If they hated it, they should say so. If they were somewhere in the middle, they should say so. I think it is possible to review a book nicely but still say you hated it. You don't have to say things like "This book was the worst book ever!!!!" or "This book was so horribly written!!!!" You can simply explain that you didn't like the book and say why. I do think that reviewers should be respectful not only because of the authors but because of the fans of the book. For every person like you who disliked a book, there is a person who liked the book. And who wants to see hate/dislike for a book they enjoyed?
I threw it out as an idea, but I can't see it working, nor would it stop the Amazon review issue unfortunately. BBAs will always find a way to stalk/harass reviewers who don't gush about the author's literary genius :(Reviews do not harm either the author or sales. I have seen books on Amazon with only amazing, gushy 4 & 5 star reviews and guess what? The books are tanking and disappearing in the ranks. I wonder why? Could it be readers aren't as naive/stupid as some authors think they are?
Personally as an author I have a range of reviews and I have never seen negative reviews impact my sales. As an author if my books only ever received negative reviews (and by this I refer to 1 & 2 star ratings) then I have a much larger problem!
Authors who wail and throw a tantrum that one 3-star review is harming their sales need a reality check. Maybe it's their behaviour harming sales. Or maybe readers are looking at the sample and then not buying.
Jen wrote: "Martyn, I have to ask: have you received a lot of backlash from these practices?"No, I haven't. Unless you count people 1-starring all my books, but even that kind of backlash was limited to just two or three people.
What accounts for the lack of backlash is probably that I review negatively on factual issues. I cite/quote what I criticize, it's not based solely on taste.
Also, the issues I criticize are MY pet peeves. I dislike info dumps, inaccuracies due to sloppy research, and lazy writing.
I've had authors protest my 'accusations', but most of the time they either directly or indirectly confirmed my assessment of their books.
And I heard quite a few excuses, from "it doesn't need to be factual, because I write for entertainment" or "I couldn't afford an editor", or "you're the first to complain about these issues". To me, lack of research is not entertaining, lack of funds is no reason to not edit a book, and being the first to complain about something could mean that perhaps nobody else bothered to inform the author that they messed up.
Another thing is that I take care to argue my points when I'm writing a review. I'm currently working on another negative review, but the flaws of the book in question, while pretty obvious to me, might not bother other people as much, so I take that into account while I'm writing the review.
As to my intent when writing negative reviews: I want to warn potential readers what to expect, but even more I want potential authors to understand that they have to work on their craft and make sure to take the profession seriously, or they might get a review similar to what I've written.
So, authors, improve your craft to a professional standard, do your research, don't insult the intelligence of your readers, and give readers a believable story, and you might not have to worry about negative reviews.
I think there is a difference between a 'bad review' and 'being harsh and hurtful' the issue is knowing where the line is. I think if someone didnt enjoy a book and gave it 1 star they can be honest with a few paragraphs. The one's that I believe are harsh and hurtful are the ones where the person didn't like the book and they then go into 5-7 lengthy paragraphs explaining how much they didn't like the book. I get you want to express your honest opinion but is it necessary to drag it out? It's like your putting the work on notice. I don't know just seems a bit much to me and I believe there's a line sometimes.
Jen wrote: "A.W., what would you propose as a way to curb the negative effects of negative reviews?"While this question is not addressed to me, I'd like to give my opinion. I think the way to curb the backlash for the reviewer is for more reviewers to give their honest opinion and for authors to swallow the bitter pill and work on their craft so their next book won't suck.
Authors who have meltdowns about negative reviews should be confronted with their behavior. Meltdowns over something as inconsequential as a negative review is immature.
The proper way for an author to handle a negative review is to glean as much information as they can from the review so they can improve their craft and make sure their next book won't contain the same flaws.
Meltdowns are for toddlers. If my toddler has a meltdown she gets a time-out until she calms down and then we'll discuss the cause of the meltdowns. Then we hug and she can resume whatever she was doing.
If an author on GR goes into meltdown, they should be banned temporarily until they regain their senses. Sure, the irate authors might feel persecuted or bullied or whatever, but other authors will think twice about having similar meltdowns. Or they have their meltdown in private without access to a keyboard.
Jen wrote: "A.W., that's an edit with serious merit. If Goodreads blocked authors from commenting on their reviews, it would stop much of this."While I tend to agree, I also think that I'd rather have the author comment on the review I posted so we can have a discussion, instead of their sock puppets doing something underhanded.
I consider my reviews a 'public service' in the sense that I step forward and publicly promote or demote a book. I consider integrity important, so I can stand behind my position without any reservation.
But I realise that I don't have a lot to lose. I don't have much of a writing career (my own sales barely cover my cappuccino bill), and as a former bouncer I'm not afraid of stalkers who might try to harass me. Not to mention that someone would have to be pretty determined to visit me in Amsterdam...
Other reviewers might have more to lose and need to act accordingly.
Justin wrote: "I think there is a difference between a 'bad review' and 'being harsh and hurtful' the issue is knowing where the line is. I think if someone didnt enjoy a book and gave it 1 star they can be hones..."I think most readers can distinguish between a negative review and a 'bad' review. The negative reviews can hurt but are not mean or spiteful (although the author can consider the reviews 'harsh'... some pills are bitter, but you still have to swallow). Bad reviews are just assholes venting their spleen.
The negative reviews I read with interest, regardless their length, while the bad reviews are not worth my time.
If you're telling the truth you're not being mean. You're being honest and no one should ever begrudge an honest review.
L.E. wrote: "If you're telling the truth you're not being mean. You're being honest and no one should ever begrudge an honest review."^This.
Martyn (a.k.a. M'sieur Sang Froid) wrote: "The negative reviews I read with interest, regardless their length, while the bad reviews are not worth my time."This has also been my experience, negative reviews are often far better written and insightful. I often find glowing 5 star reviews are simple one liners and I get the impression the reviewer is a fan/friend/family member who hasn't actually read the book in question.
As a reader thinking about purchasing a book I can see what other readers didn't like and make an informed decision about buying. Negative reviews don't put me off, and as Martyn states readers can tell the difference between negative and bad.
The big issues is overly sensitive authors who simply aren't ready to publish yet. They need time to grow a thicker skin through the critique process before they even think about publishing. First they need to understand reviews are not feedback, so many these days seem to expect readers to act as paid beta readers.
A.W. wrote: "The big issues is overly sensitive authors who simply aren't ready to publish yet. They need time to grow a thicker skin through the critique process before they even think about publishing. First they need to understand reviews are not feedback, so many these days seem to expect readers to act as paid beta readers."Pushing that 'Publish' button on KDP is just too easy. Why work on what most people consider a profession, when you can just convert your ramblings into an e-book?
Reviews strictly speaking are written for and on behalf of one person. That person is the reviewer who is hopefully presenting an honest opinion of the work they have just read. They are not written for the author, but the author can learn a great deal from a well written negative review. They may be written for other readers who are like minded, enjoy the same genres, authors and styles of writing but they are still individual subjective opinions much of the time. Anyone who courts reviews from GR or from bloggers is doing something artificial in an attempt to skew the market. It is natural that authors want to make sales but I am not entirely convinced that these are good practices. Occasionally those tactics go very badly wrong for the author. A lot of negative reviews I have read have more to do with style and storyline than actual technical facility. In other words, they are indeed subjective views and a wise author will learn from them or walk away from them. To 1* in retaliation is really stupid and disrespectful behaviour. Normal reviews should come from a reader who feels motivated to write some form of critique whether positive or negative. These reviews deserve to be respected.
Linda wrote: "Jen wrote: "A.W., that's an edit with serious merit. If Goodreads blocked authors from commenting on their reviews, it would stop much of this."Was that an autocorrect? Edit s/b idea? ;-)
Good..."
Yes, it was. Corrected now!
Martyn (a.k.a. M'sieur Sang Froid) wrote: "Pushing that 'Publish' button on KDP is just too easy."I agree. We cannot turn back the clock and go back to the days where writers slaved for years trying to secure an agent and then hoped like hell they might sell their MS to a large publisher.
But self publishing has become the new gold rush. One person hits gold and thousands follow hoping to replicate the result.
I have seen writers do NanNo in November and push publish just a day or two afterwards and then they wonder why their "book" (can we even call them that?) isn't selling. Readers are overwhelmed by the sheer mass of books thrown up on Amazon and let's face it, a large % are piles of steaming stuff.
We are going round and round in circles though. How do we let readers find the better quality books? How do we encourage writers to take the time to learn the craft and polish their book before hitting publish? How do we ensure readers can leave honest reviews (which might address the first 2 points) without being harassed by special snowflakes?
I wish I had some answers to these questions.
Martyn (a.k.a. M'sieur Sang Froid) wrote: "While this question is not addressed to me, I'd like to give my opinion. I think the way to curb the backlash for the reviewer is for more reviewers to give their honest opinion and for authors to swallow the bitter pill and work on their craft so their next book won't suck."Exactly!
Linda wrote: "Holding back on the negative comments is still part of that "being nice" syndrome. And if that's how you want to review, you're more than welcome to. But I think what a lot of us are saying is that maybe it's time to stop what is essentially lying -- if only by omission -- in the interest of niceness, and start being honest even if it is painful."YesYesYes
i cant believe people have harassed others for their reviews and opinions.
WTF?
everyone is allowed there own opinion
freedom of speech and all that
of course it can be painful and difficult for someone to read something negative and i am sure we have all been there in some way or another,
BUT you have the right to say whatever you want on YOUR reviews and should not be bullied or pressured into saying anything other than what you feel or think.
attacking other members or abusing people for their views is disgraceful and anyone who does it author or reader should be disgusted with themselves.
negative or positive YOUR review is your own, i don't think you should set out to hurt other's BUT you are allowed to voice your opinion on YOUR profile.
be honest, but don't be cruel
be sarcastic, but not rude
everyone has a voice, you should be allowed to use it!
AND if you really can't take negative feedback don't ask for or read it.
their is enough cruelty in the world, why attack each other over Books :)
WTF?
everyone is allowed there own opinion
freedom of speech and all that
of course it can be painful and difficult for someone to read something negative and i am sure we have all been there in some way or another,
BUT you have the right to say whatever you want on YOUR reviews and should not be bullied or pressured into saying anything other than what you feel or think.
attacking other members or abusing people for their views is disgraceful and anyone who does it author or reader should be disgusted with themselves.
negative or positive YOUR review is your own, i don't think you should set out to hurt other's BUT you are allowed to voice your opinion on YOUR profile.
be honest, but don't be cruel
be sarcastic, but not rude
everyone has a voice, you should be allowed to use it!
AND if you really can't take negative feedback don't ask for or read it.
their is enough cruelty in the world, why attack each other over Books :)
Sarah, I think too many people are so convinced their work is perfect that they are honestly shocked by criticism - and react with all the defensiveness of a mother protecting her baby.
Margaret wrote: "I still feel guilty, however, for voting for my own books on a couple of listopia lists. Is this ethically wrong for an author to do?"Depends who you ask. While I personally don't care, I don't give that vote any credit, either.
You'd think betas DO get paid, the way some requests are posted for snappy turnaround and thorough (I've seen length dictated) evaluations...
Jen wrote: "Sarah, I think too many people are so convinced their work is perfect that they are honestly shocked by criticism - and react with all the defensiveness of a mother protecting her baby."
i know what you mean when you have poured time, energy, effort and love into something someone hating on it hurts but i also think attacking people for their views is wrong.
i have always been a sarcastic person at heart however i hope i have never hurt anyone with my reviews.
i have never attacked the author, i only explain not liking the characters normally with lots of GIFS'S (too add fun) or being sarky.
i would never attack an author as they are not my issue the character/ story line etc is my issue
and i would not want to be attacked in return.
you know?
i know what you mean when you have poured time, energy, effort and love into something someone hating on it hurts but i also think attacking people for their views is wrong.
i have always been a sarcastic person at heart however i hope i have never hurt anyone with my reviews.
i have never attacked the author, i only explain not liking the characters normally with lots of GIFS'S (too add fun) or being sarky.
i would never attack an author as they are not my issue the character/ story line etc is my issue
and i would not want to be attacked in return.
you know?
I haven't read all the comments here, but I've skimmed a few and didn't see much from an author perspective. I'm one of the few authors out there that write reviews on the books I read and will give an honest review even if it's negative. Yes, I've gotten backlash from this from readers. In fact, I lost two members of my street team because they felt one of my reviews of an author they liked was harsh, but I refuse to be anything less than honest. And, if I read a book, I feel the author deserves a review. That being said, there IS a difference between being honest and being mean. Being an author myself, I've had bad reviews. There have been some that I've read and I've been able to learn and grown from them as a writer. However, there have also been ones who've crossed over into what I consider a personal attack. Saying that your cat/dog can write better than an author isn't being honest. It's being mean.
Did I respond to said reviewer? No. Instead, I cornered my beta and my editor and vented. Nothing good would have come from me commenting on that review.
As for Goodreads blocking authors from commenting? What about reviewers that ask the author questions, such as, when is the next book coming out?
Honestly, there is no easy answer to this thread. Should authors comment on negative reviews? No. Are they human and do some things people say get under their skin? Of course they do. We're people, not robots.
I DO know (and I absolutely LOVE reading reviews with GIFS, so keep doing that)!Any issue with a book SHOULD be pointed out, whether its a matter of typos, characterization, plot, whatever. This isn't to be mean, and it IS necessary.
Linda wrote: "Did you mean UNpaid? ;-)"I mean some authors throw a book up on Amazon then expect readers to pay for the privilege of providing the sort of feedback that critique partners and beta readers should have done long before they ever pushed publish :)
Jen wrote: "I DO know (and I absolutely LOVE reading reviews with GIFS, so keep doing that)!
Any issue with a book SHOULD be pointed out, whether its a matter of typos, characterization, plot, whatever. This ..."
totally agree with you
Any issue with a book SHOULD be pointed out, whether its a matter of typos, characterization, plot, whatever. This ..."
totally agree with you
Jen wrote: "Margaret wrote: "I still feel guilty, however, for voting for my own books on a couple of listopia lists. Is this ethically wrong for an author to do?"Depends who you ask. While I personally don'..."
: ) yeah, not gonna do that again. I think I was just bored and seduced by the novelty of it when I saw my book was on some lists. Oh well.
Goodreads Authors/Readers
Books mentioned in this topic
The Reflections of Queen Snow White (other topics)The Reflections of Queen Snow White (other topics)
Chances (other topics)
Lucky (other topics)
The Little Black Fish (other topics)
As a reader, I count on reviews to help me make a decision before I buy an unknown author. If another reader cites serious formatting/grammatical errors, I'm going to think twice before even checking the Look Inside feature on Amazon.
I appreciate the time someone has taken to relate their experience with a book. Reviews are supposed to be for readers, yet I've had many readers tell me they feel "mean" writing bad reviews. They don't want to wound the author's feelings or hurt their sales.
We shouldn't be concerned with this. Readers are customers, and all authors are businessmen/women. Personal vanity and ego have no place in sales. Anyone purchasing a product has a right to their opinion about it. Instead of thinking of the author's feelings, let's start thinking about other readers.
There are too many "bad" books out there. We can complain all we want, but ignoring them isn't helping. Maybe some honest reviewing would.