Tudor History Lovers discussion
The Six Wives of Henry VIII.. What Book with that Theme is the best?
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Johanna
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May 22, 2014 04:36AM
I wanted to read a Book about The six wives of Henry VIII and was astounded how many Versions from different Authors exist! Maybe you can tell me which Book is the best and why ! :) i already read Alison Weirs one and thought about buying Antonia Frasers.. But maybe there is a good Book from a Author not so known .. I'm sorry if that thread exists already! (and if my english is not so good since i'm german )
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I've read Antonia Fraser's and David Starkey's - of those 2 I prefer Fraser's (though both are good). Yet to read Weir's, which I hear is good.
Thanks for the Answers ! I've read Fraser now too and have to say i liked frasers a little bit more but Weirs is a little bit more detailed in some things. They're both good.. Well i will read starkeys too :D now i'm at it
Now i heard that if you like Alison Weir you won't like Starkey.. is that true??
I have read weir, starkey and fraser and liked them all.
My favorites so far are the ones by Weir and Fraser. I am currently in the middle of reading Starkey's (about to start the section on Anne of Cleves) and I am enjoying that one, too, although I find his apparent disdain for other historians a bit grating at times. I've also read the one that Chris suggested, and it's part of my collection, but I guess it didn't make as much of an impact on me.
My favorite one is by Fraser, Starkey (for his legal documents) and Weir. There is one coming up from Licence this October which I am looking forward.
I only read Weir's and I like it. I have read good reviews about Fraser's and I'm planning to read it in the near future.
Tudor The Family History by Leanda de Lisle has a very well researched section covering the role and significance of each of Henry's wives. Well worth a read.
So far, Antonia Fraser is the best!Has anyone read Loades version yet?
I haven't read Loades version yet. I recently bought it on kindle, I am reading something else at the moment, might start it after I finish.Fraser's book on the Six Wives is the best, I agree.
Agreed! These are the Six Wives book I have heard of:Fraser,
Starkey,(Need to read)
Weir,
David Loades, (Need to read)
Audeline wrote: "Agreed! These are the Six Wives book I have heard of:Fraser,
Starkey,(Need to read)
Weir,
David Loades, (Need to read)"
Those are the ones I have heard about too. Have you read Karen Lindsey's Divorced, Beheaded Survived: Feminist reinterpretation of the Six Wives?
Not bad but not as good either.
I have heard of it, didn't seem like a good read though. While some of the Six Wives were extraordinary, intelligent and some did promote the interests of women (such as education for women). None of them were feminists, I mean if the author is trying to say they were victims, yes that is true but you don't need a feminist re-interpretation to come to that conclusion!
Audeline wrote: "I have heard of it, didn't seem like a good read though. While some of the Six Wives were extraordinary, intelligent and some did promote the interests of women (such as education for women). None ..."I agree, she made some good points but overall there were some of the same old opinions, nothing new and it was really short so it was more like a summary than a well researched book. Claire Ridgway, Amy Licence, Leanda de Lisle, Susan Higginbotham, Dan Jones, Lipzcomb among many others have pointed out that as one famous author once said: the past is an alien world. And it is. That is why I prefer their books, because they're filled with very detailed descriptions of that alien past and because in all of their introductions they set the stage for their subjects, the world they lived in, the conventions they held, beliefs and choices we might hold questionable today, etc. For example in Claire Cherry and Ridgway's books Anne Boleyn Collection (I and II) and George Boleyn, they finish almost every chapter by saying we might consider certain behaviors pertaining to the wives or their subject (in George Boleyn's case) proud but they were born in certain social spheres and they just followed a standard of behavior expected of them.
Yeah, lol, judging by the past has always been a tricky subject for me. Like for example, while I think their medical practices were ridiculous, I know they were doing the best that they could and do not hold that against them. Crushed pearls for your ulcers anyone? But seriously, when it comes to certain behaviors, just no. I understand what were the norms of the time period, I just don't and can't condone them (And I will hold people to the standards they claim to follow). But I hate putting labels like feminist, or "woman ahead of her time" on people. (excuse me, Anne Boleyn was certainly no ordinary woman but you had better think again if you think she would fit right in with the 21st century.) I read a reference to Simon de Montfort as "progenitors of modern parliamentary democracy", I hate labels like that.
Audeline wrote: "Yeah, lol, judging by the past has always been a tricky subject for me. Like for example, while I think their medical practices were ridiculous, I know they were doing the best that they could and ..."It's funny how they love to put labels like these on Anglo-Saxon European figures. I see a pattern here. Why not say a woman ahead of her time for Empress Wu (Tang dynasty, no claim to the throne, just by marriage but she took it and she did much for the government and the population. She really was extraordinary. And the only woman in Chinese history to be Empress regnant), the Red Queens of Maya history (their history was one game of thrones and women could be both priestess, queens, and regents), Sei Shonagon (Japanese female author who wrote pillow book. It is funny but insightful into the inner workings of the imperial court. It is one of my favorite books), Lady Murasaki (another Japanese author I bet everyone is more familiar with her work), Malitzin, Isabel Moctezuma,and what about the important women from Africa and India who were warrior, queens and stood up against Colonial forces?
I guess not. I admire Anne Boleyn a lot but the women I mentioned above I also do.
Leanda de Lisle, Licence, Ridgway, Fraser the authors that you and everyone pretty much mentioned are the best for studying the wives and the Tudor period.
Yeah, they are though I am now wary of Lipscomb, especially after her comments in the Last Day's of Anne Boleyn. I think my favorites are now: Leanda de Lisle, Jasper Ridley, Mary M. Luke, and Amy License (Kudos for recommending her!)
I know, I have no problems with saying that someone was special, or extraordinary, but the fact still remains that alot of these extraordinary people still operated within their time periods. For example: KOA, the first female ambassador in Europe, that doesn't mean she is a 21st century woman. She was a 16th century woman through and through, though she did have some enlightening ideas (borne through her mother's example).
Empress Wu, certainly had a very interesting life. When you mentioned her before, I did a background check on wikipedia (Yeah I am going to have to double check the info though), and my jaw dropped, like woah! Not a woman to cross with!
Exactly! She was such an extraordinary figure. I learned about her while in high school and then took Eastern Asian studies in my last semesters in college and I was blown away. Since then I've been fascinated with her, her reforms and the Tang Dynasty to which she belonged to by marriage. Lol I know. You definitely did not. She was such a tour de force. Also check out Pinyang -she was *not* Empress but there were rumors her father wanted to leave her as such, she basically networked all her father's connections in both the military and politics and because the commons loved her, she raised up an army for him and her family and long story short, she set her family on the map as the new dynasty.Those are good authors Audeline.
Yes, the six wives were ahead in some things but they still believed and stuck by most social conventions of their times.
message 22:
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The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears
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Athena wrote: "Audeline wrote: "Yeah, lol, judging by the past has always been a tricky subject for me. Like for example, while I think their medical practices were ridiculous, I know they were doing the best tha..."Athena, you are all kinds of AWESOME!
Sadly, some of the great women you listed are unknown to many. I'm a fan of Anne Boleyn, but she most certainly was not the only somewhat forward-thinking woman in history. I can take it all the way back to the Candace/Kandaake Queens of Cush. The Romans had a hell of a time conquering them long after Egypt fell into their hands. Kushite bowmen were known for their ferocity and their accuracy, and they were led by these extraordinary women rulers.
Athena wrote: "Exactly! She was such an extraordinary figure. I learned about her while in high school and then took Eastern Asian studies in my last semesters in college and I was blown away. Since then I've bee..."Yeah she was, my horizon on Eastern/Non European people is slowly expanding, for instance I am a big admirer of Atermisia I of Caria.
Artemisia was great. I know only the basics about her but when we touched on her in my history class I was "wow".Thanks FountainPenDiva. The Queens of Cush were formidable women in their own right, I wish all these women would be more known to the general public as Anne Boleyn and the other five wives are. They deserve that much.
I just bought Alison Weir's Six Wives of.. Whilst on a trip away. I'm already hooked!
I also am currently reading Alison Weir's Six Wives... I have also read her Children of Henry VIII and loved it.
I'm only up to Katherine Of Aragon's chapters, but enjoying it! My plan is to then go back and read her books from the Plantagenets/War of the Roses and follow on in a timeline order.. Until something else catches my eyes!
Catherine wrote: "I'm only up to Katherine Of Aragon's chapters, but enjoying it! My plan is to then go back and read her books from the Plantagenets/War of the Roses and follow on in a timeline order.. Until somet..."
We are at about the same spot. I'm just starting Ch 3. "Our Daughter remains as she was".
Ooh how quick do you read? I aim for 1-2 chapters a night, more if my shifts allow it.If you fancy a chat or 'buddy type' read I'll be up for that!
Not quite that fast. I read at lunch but usually a chapter or so. I usually read two or three books at a time as long as different subject matters. I just finished two books so this is my concentration for the moment. I'm excited to get to the Anne Boleyn chapters soon though.
Me too! I'm on chapter 5 now and I can see where it's starting to head! KoA is interesting enough but AB is where it gets really interesting, and she's what started my whole Tudor obsession off!
Me too! I'm on chapter 5 now and I can see where it's starting to head! KoA is interesting enough but AB is where it gets really interesting, and she's what started my whole Tudor obsession off!
Just finished Ch3. Maybe I'll finish 4 tonight. I got interested when I read "The Children of Henry VIII". But during that time I also discovered that Anne was a great aunt of mine, so that sparked the real intrest in the Tudors.
Oooh wow! You have a real interest then! I've not done my family history in much depth. Should look into it more!
You'd be suprised whom you may be related to.
Just reading through the list of authors and how many of us are still extremely interested in this era makes it even more amazing. My first experience was reading Phillippa Carr, and then I studied this in Western Civ and wrote a paper about King Henry; I am terribly fascinated by this topic.
Catherine wrote: "Me too! I'm on chapter 5 now and I can see where it's starting to head! KoA is interesting enough but AB is where it gets really interesting, and she's what started my whole Tudor obsession off!"Did you read Eric Ives Book about Anne Boleyn?
If you like her you have to read it :D It's really good!
John wrote: "Just finished Ch3. Maybe I'll finish 4 tonight. I got interested when I read "The Children of Henry VIII". But during that time I also discovered that Anne was a great aunt of mine, so that spa..."
How did you discover it? :) That must have been a shock, right?
Catherine wrote: "I just bought Alison Weir's Six Wives of.. Whilst on a trip away. I'm already hooked!"Yes this one was my first Book about the Tudors so it will
be always be one of favorites :)
Did you read Antonia Frasers Six Wives too?
Johanna wrote: "John wrote: "Just finished Ch3. Maybe I'll finish 4 tonight. I got interested when I read "The Children of Henry VIII". But during that time I also discovered that Anne was a great aunt of mine..."
Johanna wrote: "John wrote: "Just finished Ch3. Maybe I'll finish 4 tonight.
I got interested when I read "The Children of Henry VIII". But during that time I also discovered that Anne was a great aunt of mine..."
I was doing the geneology on my family at this time and discovered it on my fathers side first through ancestry. It took me almost a month to go through other family records members to confirm the lieage. Yes, a little shock at first. The lineage to the Fairfax's was really cool also.
My children are related to some of the Willoughby's of the Henry VIII period, also. That's their mothers maiden name.
May be why I'm so interested. Their grandfather has a lot of information on that period relating to their lineage, also.
I haven't read either of those books yet, but I'll add them to my list!For all I love the Tudors, I've only really started to seriously read around them in the last year or so, starting when I picked Alison Weirs book on Anne Boleyn up at the uni library after finding it by accident. (I'm a nurse doing my MSc - definitely not looking at history books so must have been fate haha) Other than that I had just been dabbling in Phillipa Gregory's HF and watching films/movies as they were shown.
John wrote: "Johanna wrote: "John wrote: "Just finished Ch3. Maybe I'll finish 4 tonight. I got interested when I read "The Children of Henry VIII". But during that time I also discovered that Anne was a gr..."
John, how amazing~
Johanna wrote: "Catherine wrote: "I just bought Alison Weir's Six Wives of.. Whilst on a trip away. I'm already hooked!"Yes this one was my first Book about the Tudors so it will
be always be one of favorites :..."
I have never read her, but I am now interested.
I would find that to be very challenging and interesting, John.
Skye wrote: "John wrote: "Johanna wrote: "John wrote: "Just finished Ch3. Maybe I'll finish 4 tonight. I got interested when I read "The Children of Henry VIII". But during that time I also discovered that ..."
I am now in the process of finding the EXACT ancestrial line that links my children. It's very time consuming and I'm sure will take awhile.
John wrote: "I was doing the geneology on my family at this time and discovered it on my fathers side first through ancestry. It took me almost a month to go through other family records members to confirm the lieage. Yes, a little shock at first. The lineage to the Fairfax's was really cool also"..Wow that is really amazing! I would love to know who my ancestors were and what happened to them..
But it's great that you could trace you ancestors so far
into History and to find that you are related to them..
It must make you feel more connected to History.
http://www.amazon.com/Henry-VIIIs-Las...
Is that the same Willoughby Family?
Catherine wrote: "I haven't read either of those books yet, but I'll add them to my list!For all I love the Tudors, I've only really started to seriously read around them in the last year or so, starting when I pi..."
You should do that. Ives Book is so far the best book i've read about Anne. It's very big but so good that i didn't mind at all :D
Yes, i came to a book about the Tudors almost by accident too. And from then on i was hooked.
I was always very interested in History, but i've always just watched movies and documentaries until i read one Book
and now i can't stop..
Are you interested in English History in general?
Skye wrote: "Johanna wrote: "Catherine wrote: "I just bought Alison Weir's Six Wives of.. Whilst on a trip away. I'm already hooked!"Yes this one was my first Book about the Tudors so it will
be always be on..."
Skye wrote: "Johanna wrote: "Catherine wrote: "I just bought Alison Weir's Six Wives of.. Whilst on a trip away. I'm already hooked!"
Yes this one was my first Book about the Tudors so it will
be always be on..."
You should try it! And if you like it you have to read her book about Henrys Children too, in my opinion it's even better.
Johanna wrote: " John wrote: "I was doing the geneology on my family at this time and discovered it on my fathers side first through ancestry. It took me almost a month to go through other family records members t..."I haven't gotten that far yet. I have to find some time. I've been busy with work and the kids HS school and extra curricular activities.
NayNay wrote: "
Six Wives: The Queens of Henry VIII by David Starkey is one of my favorite."This looks incredibly good~!
Tudor History Lovers
Books mentioned in this topic
The Life and Death of Anne Boleyn (other topics)The Children of Henry VIII (other topics)
Mary Queen of Scots (other topics)
Mary, Queen of Scots and the Murder of Lord Darnley (other topics)
Mary Queen of Scots (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
David Starkey (other topics)David Starkey (other topics)
