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High functioning psychopaths and exemplars?
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Some additional material.High functioning individuals are often capable to some of the following (non-exhaustive) list.
1. Equally facile with big picture and fine detail.
2. Able to take great pains to get something right.
3. Able to strategise over long time frames.
Graeme Rodaughan wrote: "My question is this - what are all those really smart, capable, ruthless, callous people actually doing right now? Are they in leading our political parties, are they running major corporations, are they running terrorist/criminal organizations? Cults? Sects? Major religious and secular organizations?And where are the exemplars? ..."
Interesting data and attempt to combine psycho's characteristics with IQ. If IQ indeed measures smartness, I argue that to be a successful businessman, very high IQ is more of a disadvantage. You need more street smart, industriousness, guts and stuff like that. Very smart people often work as consultants for rich ones.
Politicians - still very smart is a disadvantage. Here you need charisma, intrigue and excellent interpersonal relations. If you are too smart, you may be less 'controllable' in the eyes of the sponsors, they might be wary to finance your campaign. And to laymen, you won't come through 'as one of us' and people will be reluctant to vote you in.
What I'm saying is not that psycho's don't get to pivotal positions, but rather too smart - rarely.
But what do I know - if we now have boxing champs with PhDs (Klitschko) and fans of chess (same Klit and Lennox Lewis)-:)
Exemplars, if exist, - probably die in poverty and frustration, as they come completely non adapted to the surrounding world...
I don't think or presume that there is any special link between psychopathy and intelligence.I see them as two independent factors, just when they combine there is a problem.
For example, glibness, conning, & manipulative traits are exacerbated when paired with high intelligence.
For exemplars I offer two examples above.
Politician & Sponsor relationship - the high functioning psychopath will be the sponsor, not his expendable front man selling his policies to the public.
This is fascinating! Currently science seems to have come to the conclusion that there's actually a negative relationship between psychopathy and intelligence. Insane people aren't as bright as they think they are. The evil genius troop is Hollywood gold but actually quite rare.
Hi Tara,It also seems the psychopathy has a physical basis in the operation of certain organs (Hypothalmus) of the brain.
However I would be wary of labelling it an illness. Psychopaths do not experience themselves as being ill, but as being superior.
I hypothesize (very rough use of that word...) that psychopathy is in fact a variant of standard humanity - an intra-species predator, and they see themselves that way as well.
The rest of us are just prey.
REF: Albert J Dunlap The magazine's editor. John A. Byrne, noted: "In all my years of reporting, I had never come across an executive as manipulative, ruthless, and destructive as Al Dunlap. Until the Securities and Exchange Commission barred him from ever serving as an officer of a public corporation, Dunlap sucked the very life and soul out of companies and people. He stole dignity, purpose, and sense out of organizations and replaced those ideals with fear and intimidation.
Gah, I didn't see this thread Graeme :)But you already said most of the interesting things I know about psychopaths.
The main thing I have to add is that the numbers when it comes to diagnosis and prevalence are almost certainly skewed, so there's no easy way to tell if there's actually any correlation between intelligence and antisocial personality disorders, between criminality and APD, or simply "the stupid people with APD are the ones who get caught and subsequently diagnosed."
Psych central points out how there is only a very low rate of diagnosis in the general public, because very few people suffering antisocial personality disorders seek treatment on their own: "Like most personality disorders, most people will go through their lives with little realization of the difficulty they have."
In other words: Most people who are diagnosed only because they are ordered to see a psychiatrist for evaluation by a court. That only happens once they've already broken the law somehow. High-functioning psychopaths typically don't break the law, not because doing so would be wrong, but because they value their own freedom highly enough to not want to risk it - but that means very few of them ever get a clinical diagnosis.
A couple of other notes that might be interesting from a writerly point of view: Most people don't realise psychopaths and sociopaths are essentially the same thing (both are clinically Antisocial personality disorder). Really interesting to me are the very slight differences that do exist between the two.
The first is that there is a nature vs nurture divide, typically psychopaths are born, sociopaths are made. But a psychopath raised in a "good" family (whatever that is, but at least one who doesn't suffer childhood traumas and abuse and is exposed to societal norms and morality) is often very hard to spot.
Another difference between a psychopath and a sociopath is organisation. A psychopath is typically controlled, a sociopath is typically more disorganised and erratic. Think Dexter vs The Joker. In a crime context, a psychopath might be an excellent serial killer, able to keep up a charade over a very long period of time, whereas a sociopath is more likely to be tipped over by a particular event. Of course, the majority of both are probably undiagnosed and annoying assholes, but not actually criminals.
Finally, psychopaths essentially have no conscience, or empathy, they don't understand how other people feel, and they don't care either. Sociopaths typically do have a conscience, just not nearly as much as they care about their own wants and needs.
But I agree with you Graeme, humanity is a spectrum, and we are terrifically complex beasts.
There's a really fascinating book written by one of a researcher who has done a lot of work on the biological differences in the brain of a psychopath, and during a study of MRI scans of violent convicted criminals, came across the most archetypal psychopath brain he'd ever seen. Only it was in the wrong pile, and the MRI he was looking at was actually his own.
The Psychopath Inside: A Neuroscientist's Personal Journey into the Dark Side of the Brain by James Fallon
I actually know very well one person clinically diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder. He's a pretty high end networking guru. After 9/11 he was one of the people Cisco got on the first flights into New York, to help put Wall Street back together, infrastructure-wise, and he's been the CTO in a couple of companies. He is terrifically charming, preternaturally good at his job, and vendors and clients (and their wives) love him. His actual co-workers on the other hand, pretty much consider him the devil, and hate working with him, and he's never been any good at managing people - every time he's been in a direct management position over actual staff, the turnover is ridiculous. I think the longest he's kept an assistant or secretary in the two decades I've known him, is about 6 months. The charming veneer is pure manipulation and only comes out when it's the most efficient way of getting what he wants, I.e., selling a client on a solution. Staff don't need that much effort, and he's in the position of power, so he doesn't bother, and then always seems mystified when people move on as soon as they can. So he ends up moving sideways back into a more technical, less people related position, every time (but of course it's not his fault everyone isn't as brilliant as he is.)
As for another example of someone I really suspect is a high-functioning something-o-path: Martin Shkreli
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/bus...
or http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/28/i-did-...
That second article really paints a picture of someone so close to the person I know mentioned above. One of my favourite parts is that he donated $1 million to the school he was expelled from, and he's so hated the alumni foundation are trying to raise money to match it so the school can return it. His response: "But can they raise $5 million?"
Even when the pathology doesn't lead to outright criminal violence, it's still predator/prey behaviour. It's not about money for people like Shkreli, money is great, but it's not the point. It's about winning. And not just winning, but beating other people. At everything, all the time.
Hi Krazykiwi,Very well put on all points.
I would add that I believe that there are plenty of High Functioning Psychopaths breaking the law - but not getting caught.
I like how you reverse the Hare list to get Exemplars. Very interesting! Regarding where all these psychopaths are right now, I'm not sure how to link as it's not letting me C&P, but I've seen articles that surgeons, media, sales, cops, politicians, and clergy attract huge numbers of them. Any position that gives lots of power over others AND lots of praise and maybe money will attract them. Conversely, family doctors and kindergarten teachers have some of the most empathetic people.
Hi Felicity - is this what you were looking for?According to Wiki (I know, not perfect...)
Psychopaths accumulate in the following professions (in order of the top ten most likely to be a psychopath)
CEO
Lawyer (Sorry Nik, :-))
Media (TV/radio)
Salesperson
Surgeon
Journalist
Police officer
Clergy
Chef
Civil servant
I think they left out Ogliarchs?
Krazykiwi wrote: "Gah, I didn't see this thread Graeme :)But you already said most of the interesting things I know about psychopaths.
The main thing I have to add is that the numbers when it comes to diagnosis a..."
Hi Krazykiwi,
Martin Shkreli visibly has a number of the required traits. Probably sees himself as a visionary leader...
I prefer a high-functioning sociopath... with your number!
LOL. It's always good when they're on "our side."
Graeme Rodaughan wrote: "Hi Felicity - is this what you were looking for?According to Wiki (I know, not perfect...)
Psychopaths accumulate in the following professions (in order of the top ten most likely to be a psycho..."
Journalist??? No way! Does it specify what kind of journalism they get involved in?
Graeme Rodaughan wrote: "Psychopaths accumulate in the following professions ... Lawyer (Sorry Nik, :-)) "It's Ok, I don't think I like lawyers -:) Many cool dudes among them, yet maybe more - not so cool -:) Probably doctors too. My impression.
Graeme Rodaughan wrote: "I think they left out Ogliarchs?..."More status, than profession -:)
Matthew wrote: "Journalist??? No way! Does it specify what kind of journalism they get involved in? ..."Media - obviously filled with deceptive, lying, mendacious, presstitutes whose gig is to sell the propaganda of the powerful to the gullible..... :-).
The research is by an English psychologist named Kevin Dutton.
Just to spice things up a wee bit, here's a quote from Vonnegut:"So many of these heartless PPs [psychopathic personalities] now hold big jobs in our federal government, as though they were leaders instead of sick. They have taken charge. They have taken charge of communications and the schools, so we might as well be Poland under occupation."—Kurt Vonnegut
I guess he's saying that PPs aren't necessarily villains in fiction? Of course, Kurt wasn't a psychiatrist or psychologist either.
Please don't react politically to this. I intended it to be a humorous addition to this very serious and erudite thread.
r/Steve
PD. The quote is taken from the author's little gem of a book, A Man Without a Country. And so it goes....
World, Writing, Wealth
Books mentioned in this topic
The Psychopath Inside: A Neuroscientist's Personal Journey into the Dark Side of the Brain (other topics)Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work (other topics)
The first book to read to get an insight into the topic is Snakes in Suits
Follow up with Richard Hare's (he helped write the book and defined "Psychopathy" as a concept) at http://www.hare.org/
Add some wiki sites on psychopathy, narcissistic personality disorder and the psychopathic personality and you are well on your way to being able to describe a psychopath whether you have met one or not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychop..., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narciss..., and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychop...
However - there was a very real gap in the available research material. People have done amazing and extensive work examining and measuring psychopaths and yet - where was the understanding of the reversal of psychopathy.
For example, Hare invented the PCL-R checklist which is a measure of psychopathy from 0 to 40. Score 5 and you're normal. Score 10 and you're basically a bastard. Score 20 and you're the scheming boss from hell, score 30 you're Ted Bundy, score 40 and you're the Anti-christ.
The PCL-R checklist summarizes the basic characteristics of the psychopath here http://nowandfutures.com/large/Hare_P...
The personality characteristics that I found useful from a character construction perspective where detailed as "Factor 1: Aggressive narcissism"
1. Glibness/superficial charm
2. Grandiose sense of self-worth
3. Pathological lying
4. Cunning/manipulative
5. Lack of remorse or guilt
6. Shallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric)
7. Callousness; lack of empathy
8. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
But note this, 5 is normal. If you can go from normal (5) to a score of 40, it begs the question - what's at -40 on this scale.
There was no word in the dictionary for anti-psychopath, so I looked around for a word to fit and found "Exemplar" as in exemplary and I decided that would do.
So how is an Exemplar the opposite of a Psychopath - well simple - let's just reverse the polarity of the descriptors and see what we end up with.
1. Glibness/superficial charm becomes depth and authenticity.
2. Grandiose sense of self-worth becomes the presence of a realistic grounded sense of self worth and the ability to relate to the self worth of others.
3. Pathological lying becomes persistent honesty, and integrity of thought, word and deed.
4. Cunning/manipulative becomes open, transparent dealing, seeking genuine mutual benefit.
5. Lack of remorse or guilt becomes active capacity for remorse/guilt, pursuit of redemption of self and others, and active avoidance of unworthy acts.
6. Shallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric) becomes capacity for deep and life orientating emotional experience. Persistent emotional responses. Emotions based on both external and internal events.
7. Callousness; lack of empathy becomes active and life orientating compassionate responses to the suffering of others. Empathetic experience of the joys and sorrow of others.
8. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions becomes active seeking of responsibility and accountability for both self and others. Willingness to establish open and transparent boundaries on responsibility and accountability.
This gives us working definitions of Psychopaths and Exemplars.
Now Richard Hare states that approximately 1% of the population are psychopaths, is it possible that 1% are also exemplars and the other 98% are in between.
Now - let's add a wrinkle by looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_... which is organized around the idea of admitting people who have an IQ of approx 150+ and represents about 1 in a 1000 people.
Approx 7 billion humans on the planet. 0.1% have an IQ approx 150+ = 7 million really smart human beings.
1% of these 7 million really smart people are psychopaths = 70 thousand really nasty/evil human beings with approx 70 thousand really good people (exemplars).
Note the numbers are rough - but you get the idea.
My question is this - what are all those really smart, capable, ruthless, callous people actually doing right now? Are they in leading our political parties, are they running major corporations, are they running terrorist/criminal organizations? Cults? Sects? Major religious and secular organizations?
And where are the exemplars?