The History Book Club discussion
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THE EMERALD ISLE - READ IRELAND CHALLENGE
message 151:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(new)
Jun 07, 2017 07:34AM
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I have finished my 5th Ireland read, Michael Collins and The Troubles. Previous reviews I read of this book said it was a dry read, but I didn't get that at all. It is a bit bias, but the author added his own family interactions with historical figures that I thought were cool and interesting. 
by Ulick O'Connor (no photo)
Mod
Bentley wrote: "Excellent Brett - that is greatPretty close on the citation - just in the parentheses put (no photo) not (no author photo)."
I feel like I mess up on the no author photo part every time. I'm sorry.
Mod
I did not know that this Themed Reading Group existed, but just by chance, in the past few weeks I have read:
by
Frank McCourt
by
Emma Donoghue and 
by
Roddy DoyleI KNOW that, like most young girls, I read many Maeve Binchy and Nora Roberts novels set in Ireland, but to determine *which* titles would be almost impossible now- those types of book have a way of blending together.
I WILL be reading
by
Patrick Ness for a Group Read I am participating in this month.--Jen from Quebec :0)
I have the Project Gutenberg ebook of:
by
Oscar WildeReally enjoy this ghost story that is a commentary on the British upper class.
I did give it a quick re-read. At only 22 pages, its a short story.
Mod
I just finished my third book for this challenge. 3 stars.
by
Thomas CahillReview: The conclusion of this book is beautiful and inspiring, but my mind wandered on the journey there. The main point of the book is that at the start of the Dark Ages, when Europe was overrun by pagan warriors, Irish Catholic monks and nuns enclosed themselves in their monasteries on their naturally isolated island and copied out their own Celtic myths, along with the Greek and Roman classics, thereby preserving Western culture. Literacy and scholarship are as prized in Irish culture as they are amongst Jews, and while that is a point I can respect intellectually, the book didn't get me to feel it emotionally. It seems to me that it lacked the lyrical language it professed to celebrate.
Perhaps the problem is that it was over-hyped. I first heard of it on Elizabeth Gilbert's podcast when she recommended it to an Irish-American listener who was getting into oral storytelling. The idea behind the recommendation was that this book would help the woman get in touch with her roots. Then, when the History Book Club announced the Ireland challenge, I knew this book would be on my list. I've gotten into the McCourt brothers because of the same challenge, but they, who likewise express quite a bit of pride in the Irish literary sensibility, convey it much better, even to a Jew like me. I've given the book a 3 because I learned from it, but it didn't move me.
I have just finished my fourth book for this challenge - 4.5 stars.
by
Mike McCormackThis novel may take a little initial effort to start, due to its "stream of consciousness" continuous narrative, but once accepted, I got caught up in the flowing nature of the story as the narrator passes from one memory to another, describing events, thoughts and experiences in a not unusual life - married with two children, working as a civil engineer in the west of Ireland (Louisburgh and Westport, County Mayo).
But although the narrative drive of the story might sound slight, I found myself caught up in the stories, ordinary stories, interspersed with humour and moments when I thought the narrator an idiot, but a believable human idiot.
The narrator talks about family, art, economics and politics - one train of thought flowing into another story in an interesting, intriguing fashion. I wanted to know where it was all going and I felt sad, very sad, to leave Marcus Conway and his stories.
This novel is long-listed for the Man Booker 2017, and having already read several of the other long-listed books this year, I would hope that it has a good chance of at least making the shortlist, as this deserves to be more widely read.
Mod
I reached my 6 book goal.....but I'm reading more about Ireland.
Mod
Hi there, I'm a late joiner to the challenge, but by luck have ticked off some already! I read two Irish author's over the summer - Nick Laird's Modern Gods (very literary contrast of Ulster with New Ulster in Papua New Guinea) and Solar Bonesby Mike McCormack (extremely literary, well deserving of being on the Booker long-list, was robbed in not making the shortlist IMHO).
I also read and enjoyed Histories of Nations: How Their Identities Were Forged by Peter Furtado, which is a great world history - it has a short chapter on each country so I feel a bit cheeky counting it here, but - hey - I've only got 5 months to complete the challenge! Besides, I have a few other partial-Irish books so counting 1 doesn't feel too much like cheating - The Great Cities in History (which has a chapter on Dublin and gives an excellent global perspective on how power has moved over the centuries) and Worth Dying For: The Power and Politics of Flags (superb - highly recommend it).
For my fourth, I am lining up Wounds: A Memoir of Love and War by Fergal Keane - friend of mine gave me an advance copy and what I've read so far is great. It covers Fergal's own family's involvement in the IRA and is very powerfully written.
For my fifth, I'm going to enjoy reading through this thread to find a recommendation - thank you to you all in advance!
by
Nick Laird
by
Mike McCormack
by Peter Furtado
by
John Julius Norwich
by
Tim Marshall
by Fergal Keane
AnnaG wrote: "Hi there, I'm a late joiner to the challenge, but by luck have ticked off some already! I read two Irish author's over the summer - Nick Laird's Modern Gods (very literary contras..."
Great reading suggestions, thanks!
by Margaret SkinniderMargaret fought in the 1916 Easter Uprising in Dublin - the only woman to get injured. Here she gives an account of carrying dispatches, avoiding machine gun fire, shooting British soldiers and trying to bomb a British position. She's either a terrorist or a freedom fighter depending on your politics and as a Brit myself, I know I'm not unbiased.
It's an interesting read, and the first soldier's memoir written by a woman that I have read. I admire her dedication to her cause, but abhor the methods she employed to support it.
by Tom Murphy (no photo)Finish: 30 October 2017
Genre: play
Rating: A
Review:
What was TM’s biggest challenge?
How to represent the action of more than 100 years ago so as to
…engage audiences in the present time of theater.
What was Murphy’s goal?
Murphy wanted to voice through the actors the general effect of famines on the poor. The neighborhood ties loosen of dissolve. Theft becomes endemic.
Resistance changes into apathy.
The feeling of a ‘group’ is shattered.
General information to get you started....
Style: Brechtian history
the Brechtian style that relies on the audience’s reflective detachment…rather than emotional involvement.
Structure: 12 scenes (not divided into acts)
Timeline: 1846 (Autumn) – 1847 (Spring)
Setting: village of Glanconor – space is ‘charged’ with historical trauma.
Conclusion: Tom Murphy does not seek the limelight
...but his plays are 'beacons' of insight into
the Irish psyche.
He is considered to be the greatest living Irish playwright.
Bought this one and will be reading it (UPDATED) 
by VariousThe tales collected for Irish Fairy and Folk Tales all are reprinted from nineteenth-century sources, but they date back much further, to a time when they were part of a centuries-old oral tradition of storytelling and had yet to be committed to the printed page. These are stories that passed down through the ages virtually unaltered in their telling. To those who told and listened to them, they expressed something fundamental about Irish culture and the Irish way of life.
The stories in this volume feature a wide variety of fantastic beings, including ghosts, witches, fairies, and changelings, but several feature creatures that are virtually exclusive to Ireland: the banshee, the merrow, the pooka, and the leprechaun. Read these tales of frightening supernatural horrors, brave folk heroes, and everyday people clever enough to outwith the devil, and you'll agree that they could only take place on Irish soil.
My Review:
Charming tales collected in this book. The only one I didn't like was " The Three Wishes." That one went on way too long.
Book #4 in the challenge for me:
by Tim Pat Coogan (no photo)My Review: There's a phrase that appears throughout this book that sums up its thesis: "G-d sent the [potato] blight, but the British brought the famine." The book makes the case that Britain's neglect of the starving Irish was nothing short of genocide. Indeed, the descriptions of conditions in the workhouses, the place impoverished tenant farmers were evicted to en masse, reminded me of what I've read about the Nazi concentration camps with the rampant death by starvation and typhus. The only difference was that in Ireland, there were no gas chambers or crematoria.
Some relief efforts did help, but they were too small-scale, so they missed thousands of people. The Quakers receive the most credit for their non-proselytizing soup kitchens. Other Protestant sects imitated them, but with one big difference: they insisted on converting the people they served. Whatever tensions existed between Protestants and Catholics before then were surely exacerbated and gave birth to resentments that lasted generations and even played a role in what the Irish called "the Troubles" in the 20th century.
The Protestant attitude in all this was the most appalling misinterpretation of Divine Providence I've ever heard: it's G-d's will, so we need not do anything. The British leadership also embraced the political equivalent of this with a dogmatic interpretation of Adam Smith in which the death toll was seen as a market correction for poor agricultural and economic habits. Of course, this very thinking informs much of the Republican party in the U.S. today, but to me it's ironic if not shocking that Irish Americans Paul Ryan (a Catholic!) and Mitch McConnell are at the vanguard of it.
As a book, I must say it was a tough read, and not just because of the subject. The style just didn't grab me, though the fault may be mine. I fear that I had so little background in Irish history going in that I didn't get everything out of this book that the author intended. It is probably not meant to be an introduction to this subject, but more of a polemic to be read after the reader knows a fair bit about it. Since it effectively was my introduction, though, I have to say that I consider myself more informed as a result of it, but probably not enough. The book does cite other sources for readers to look into, but whether or not I make use of them remains to be seen.
Ireland Reading Challenge: 8/9 
by
William TrevorFinish date: 23 November 2017
Genre: fiction
Rating: D
Review: In a small Irish town during a lazy summer Ellie
knows that she must enjoy life or endure it.
She made her choice.
Trevor's short stories are better than his novels.
#LongList Man Booker Prize 2009
Ireland Reading Challenge 9/9
by Ruadhan Mac Cormaic (no photo)Finish date: 17 December 2017
Genre: non-fiction
Rating: B+
Review:
The book traces many landmark decisions and gives the reader an
inside look at the internal ‘give and take’ among the judges
to produce an objective agreement or dissent decision.
It reveals who the judges are
These men and women who usually want to stay out of the limelight.
Book #5, but it's a bit of a stretch, compared to my other four, which were much more on-theme. This one just had an Irish author.
by Josephine LeslieReview: The TV show based on this book was in reruns when I was a kid, but I never did get the point of it even though the ghost character with his English accent and gentlemanly manner primed me for a future of Darcy-crushes. I didn't even know the book existed until a friend reviewed it here, and she intrigued me by saying that what it's really about is Mrs. Muir's growing independence. The reason I finally got around to the book, though, was to fulfill the History Book Club's Ireland challenge. The author of the book is Irish, and Captain Daniel Gregg (the ghost) seems to be Irish, though the book seems to be set in England, though it might be Ireland. All I know is that Mrs. Muir lives in an isolated house on the seaside, but the characters sometimes mention London.
Perhaps 5 stars is a bit generous for this book; it's not the stuff of the classics. But the ghost and Mrs. Muir have some amusing and deep conversations about life after death, falling in love, parenting, and the challenge of dealing with overbearing people. It was really enjoyable and absorbing; I read it in a single day. Like I said, it's not great literature, but it is deceptively deep and sometimes funny. Hollywood didn't do it justice.
Book 1 - An Irish Country Doctor by Patrick Taylor.Book 2 - Spellbook of the Lost and Found by Moïra Fowley-Doyle
Mod
by Josephine Leslie (no photo) Kressel - Whitecliff and London are not Irish (not a wee bit of a stretch - it is not really Irish at all. You still have time to do another. (lol)
Isa - for our standard so that the goodreads software can populate the site and all of goodreads and to provide links for our members - please add the bookcover, the author's photo and the author's link.
by
Patrick Taylor
by
Moïra Fowley-Doyle
Coming a bit late to this challenge, but being Irish, I would be remiss if I didn't make some effort. So here goes, book 1/5 completed. 
by Padraig O'KeeffeReview: 3.5/5 Stars.
I came across this book while searching for material on the French Foreign Legion. I was surprised to discover it's author came from a small town (Cobh, Ireland) just outside the city (Cork) where I grew up. While Cobh is about as close to a "military town" as you're going to find in Ireland (the Irish Naval Service is based there), with one exception I never knew anyone who was on a military deployment overseas, let alone someone who joined the French Foreign Legion. So I was drawn to read this book.
Essentially the book is split into two halves. The first half deals with Pádraig's Legion service, the second with his life as a private security contractor. I found the Legion part intriguing, but it lacks the detail I was looking for on training, hardships, etc. That said, it's a good starting point for me and I'll find those details elsewhere. The second half on life as a private security contractor was definitely an eye opener. His description of wannabe "Rambos" with ninja death stars is hilarious, even to a non-military guy like me; don't worry, those guys didn't even make if outside the security compound!
The funs soon stops when you realize what these guys actually go through in a war zone. His final battle is described in excruciating detail and is almost painful to read. (view spoiler) I think he's probably one of the luckiest guys on earth to be still alive.
After he was treated and stabilized for his wounds, Pádraig opted to go back to Ireland to recuperate and have follow up treatment. While Irish healthcare is first class in my opinion, there often isn't enough of it to go around and when Pádraig had to wait three days for treatment and a hospital bed, it brought a wry smile of recognition to my face.
If Pádraig ever reads this, I wish him all the best in his future endeavors and hope he made a full recovery.
Probably approaching this sideways, but being Wrong Way Carrigan is nothing new to me. I signed up for 5 books about Ireland. I know about its general location, a bit of the history, I am using this opportunity to learn more. 5 books on the challenge TBD at this time. Will add apprpriate choices shortly.Book 1 --
by Bruce Gaston (no image available at this time)Richard W. Buro
From Deep in the Heart of the Great Lone Star State!
I am going to give the challenge a try.
Mod
by Bruce Gaston (no photo)Richard you were mighty close to being spot on with you citation.
Book 2/5
by
James JoyceReview: 4/5 Stars
I'm finally revisiting Joyce after over a thirty year drought. Strangely enough, there are passages in Dubliners (and also A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man) that made an impact on me then and I still remember to this day. Growing up in Catholic Ireland in the 70's and 80's gave me a real perspective of Joyce's themes, albeit three quarters of a century later.
Dubliners is a collection of 15 short stories set at the turn of the 20th century, at a time when Ireland was still a backward British colony, Irish nationalism was running high and the Catholic Church was highly influential in public opinion. Joyce resented the stagnation of Irelands cultural development and blamed this largely on the Catholic Church. This theme, as well as lack of progress and death continually recur throughout multiple stories; characters wish for something elusive but seem to go nowhere and fail to achieve or find what they are looking for - the boy in “Araby”, “Eveline”, Mrs. Kearney in “A Mother”, Little Chandler in “A Little Cloud” and probably the most poignant image of all in “The Dead”, that of Gabriel’s grandfather’s mill horse walking in circles around a statue even when unshackled from the mill. Mr. Duffy in “A Painful Case” had the opportunity to escape from his highly structural and organized, yet mundane existence, but refused to do so with tragic consequences.
If you haven’t read Joyce before, I would highly recommend trying Dubliners on your first outing.
Mod
Bentley wrote: "Anthony we had a group discussion about this book and I have to agree with you that it is the most approachable of all of this wonderful author's books."Thanks Bentley. I saw the group discussion and will go back and read through the threads in more detail. I'm looking forward to the Ulysses group read!
Mod
On a side note - we have a citation rule so that everybody's posts are cross populating our site in terms of books and authors. Don't forget to add the book citation for any book or author mentioned.
by
James Joyce
Bentley wrote: "Terrific. On a side note - we have a citation rule so that everybody's posts are cross populating our site in terms of books and authors. Don't forget to add the book citation for any book or aut..."
Got it. Thanks!
Ireland Reading Challenge: Book 3/5
by Peter Fry (no photo)Review: 3/5 Stars
A SHORT history of Ireland covering about 8,000 years in 340 pages!
Not exactly packed with details, but it's indexed and has enough references and descriptions of key people and events to provide a good starting point for further reading. My edition was published in 1993 by Barnes & Noble and it doesn't appear to have been updated since the first edition in 1988; it still ends in the early 70's, with no updates on the modern "Troubles" in Northern Ireland. If your interest is in anything later than the 60's, you need to look elsewhere.
Mod
Quite an accomplishment.
Ireland Reading Challenge 1/2
by
Thomas CahillFinish Date: April 9, 2018
Rating: C -
Review: The title of this book did not accurately indicate its content. The first third of the book was exploring the "attitude" of those living through the fall of the Roman Empire, but contained so many extraordinarily long quotations from Plato that at times I thought I had picked up the wrong book. But then the works of Plato were not revisited or tied in with the remainder of the book. The second third was exclusively about the life of Saint Patrick and how the Irish, prior to his influence, were barbarians with few redeeming cultural qualities other than "Irish spirit."
The last third of the book finally got into how the Irish actually "saved civilization" by transcribing and disseminating books and reteaching literacy to the masses. Of course this was closely linked to the spread of Christianity, as those scribes and teachers were monks, mostly. Although the author expounded heavily on how Christianity took on a quite different form in Ireland than it did in Europe, he never actually explored why that was, other than another vague statement of "Irish Spirit." No explanation of whether Saint Patrick actively promoted the looser version of Christianity, or any other historically based theories. Just essentially "gee those silly Irish."
I won't be going back to this author. History can be such an enjoyable topic, but Cahill managed to suck all the joy out of it.
Mod
You did a great job with the citation but just reverse the author's photo and the author's link. The author's photo always comes first.
Here's my fifth and final book for the challenge:
by
Malachy McCourtFinish date: February 23, 2018
Genre: History
Rating: B
Review: I began this challenge with Frank McCourt’s classic memoir of his childhood in Limerick, and fittingly, I’ve finished it with his brother Malachy’s historical narrative. I’ve become a big fan of the McCourt brothers through this journey, but many of their books didn’t count for the challenge because they were set in America.
Given my familiarity with Malachy’s style, I wasn’t surprised that another reviewer said that rather than a standard history book, the tone was like a guy chatting to you about Irish history over a few pints at the pub. Malachy owned a pub for years, so that made perfect sense, and since some of his other books made me laugh till I cried, I went in expecting a lighthearted tone. I was actually surprised at how serious it was. It wouldn’t be correct to characterize this book as academic, but it might work in a survey course. It’s written as a series of short biographies of prominent Irishmen and women ranging from the medieval St. Patrick to present-day Bono. I could probably pass an Irish history test because of it. . . though I doubt I’d get an A.
Because the book covers such a broad period, it’s long, so not everyone would want to commit. But if you’ve laughed over Malachy McCourt’s other books, you’ll probably enjoy seeing his serious and scholarly side, too.
Mod
Mod
by Dónall Mac Amhlaigh (no photo)Synopsis:
Originally published in 1964, this is Donall MacAmhlaigh's own story as a navvy or unskilled workman in post World War II England. Here is backbreaking, blister-making work, followed by pints of the black stuff in the Admiral Rodney and many other pubs. Workless and foodless days, the hardships of work camps, lonesome partings after trips home, periods of intense isolation and occasional bitterness-this is an honest account of how the average Irish laborer worked and lived in and contributed to the country of the ancient enemy.
Mod
I am a bit late, but I do wish to join this challenge. I will read 5 books, four of which I still need to choose. I am currently reading The Heart's Invisible Furies by John Boyne.
by
I am very late to this shindig, but I am in! I will read 5 books before the end of the year.
I am planning on:
Dancing at Lughnasa
Making Sense of the Troubles
The Ghosts of Belfast
The Last Monks of Skellig Michael
A man with one of Those Faces
I am planning on:
Dancing at Lughnasa
Making Sense of the Troubles
The Ghosts of Belfast
The Last Monks of Skellig Michael
A man with one of Those Faces
I am also joining late. I will start with the Dubliners.
Ireland Reading Challenge: Book 4/5
by
Morgan LlywelynReview: 4/5 Stars
I thoroughly enjoyed this book. It is historical fiction at its best. The story is based in early 20th century Dublin, leading up to the Easter Rising of 1916. The plot intermingles real historical protagonists like Pádraig Pearse, Tom Clarke, Seán Mac Diarmada, James Connolly, etc. with a small set of fictitious characters to tell a story of patriotism and love set against a backdrop of real events; the history is accurate and the fiction is engaging and plays seamlessly. The author also annotates historical events and quotations and includes a bibliography and a brief bio of the historical characters. Even the dialect is accurate; I had to smile when I read a passage describing a local giving directions; “Go up the road to the first right but don’t take that”; exactly how an Irishman would give directions!
This book provides a highly enjoyable way to learn a little about early 1900’s Irish history, albeit Dublin-centric. Highly recommended!
Ireland Reading Challenge: Book 5/5
by
James JoyceRe-read. Last read some time in the 80's.
Review: 4.5/5 Stars
In his first published novel, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, Joyce explores the evolution of his artistic soul through his main protagonist, Stephen Dedalus. Through the use of rich imagery in a “stream of consciousness” narrative and reasoning in the form of dialog with other characters (many based loosely on real Joyce acquaintances), we see a gradual progression from Stephen’s earliest memories to his final decision to leave a restricting Ireland and freely pursue his art, in much the same way as Joyce did.
“When the soul of a man is born in this country there are nets flung at it to hold it back from flight. You talk to me of nationality, language, religion. I shall try to fly by those nets.”
Stephen’s Catholic Irish education and religious indoctrination by his instructors was very typical of the time and was still going on in the 70's when I was in school there. The “fire and brimstone” sermon of the Catholic retreat is something that struck a deep chord with me, having experienced something similar myself; instill belief through fear and cause sickening apprehension following transgression, that was the goal. Extremely effective with sensitive youth who don’t know any better! It’s no great surprise that the majority of the younger generation in Ireland today are at best agnostic, or in the extreme, flat out atheist. Joyce’s prose describing the sermons and Stephen’s subsequent guilt thoughts are so detailed and beautifully written that they defy words and can’t be described as anything other than pure genius. The effect on this reader was immediate and overwhelming.
When the afflicted soul is cast into hell, “….. this terrible fire will not afflict the bodies of the damned only from without, but each lost soul will be a hell unto itself, the boundless fire raging in its very vitals. O, how terrible is the lot of those wretched beings! The blood seethes and boils in the veins, the brains are boiling in the skull, the heart in the breast glowing and bursting, the bowels a red-hot mass of burning pulp, the tender eyes flaming like molten balls.”
Stephen reflects upon this and thinks … “Every word for him. It was true. God was almighty. God could call him now, call him as he sat at his desk, before he had time to be conscious of the summons. God had called him. Yes? What? Yes? His flesh shrank together as it felt the approach of the ravenous tongues of flames, dried up as it felt about it the swirl of stifling air. He had died. Yes. He was judged.”
Stephen subsequently tries to repent, even going beyond the norm and becoming overly pious, but eventually realizes he cannot achieve his life’s destiny, the blossoming of his artistic soul, without a rejection of the shackles of religion and country.
“I will not serve that in which I no longer believe, whether it call itself my home, my fatherland, or my church: and I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely as I can and as wholly as I can, using for my defence the only arms I allow myself to use—silence, exile, and cunning.”
He is almost reborn, his defining epiphany coming after he ignores the catcalls of his college friends and symbolically walks away across the “trembling bridge” towards the sea.
“His soul had arisen from the grave of boyhood, spurning her grave-clothes. Yes! Yes! Yes! He would create proudly out of the freedom and power of his soul, as the great artificer [Daedalus] whose name he bore, a living thing, new and soaring and beautiful, impalpable, imperishable.”
Ireland Reading Challenge: Book 6/5
by Stan Gebler DaviesReview: 4/5 Stars
An entertaining, often witty, informative short biography of the great master. Using many original sources, including extracts from letters, friend's diaries and conversations, Gébler Davies puts together a concise picture of the artist’s life, covering his works, family, struggles and hardships. A worthy addition to any Joyce library, even if Ellmann already sits on the shelf.
A Memory of Violets: A Novel of London's Flower Sellersby
Hazel GaynorThis is probably the wrong place for this book, but I believe the author is Irish. Also, several of the characters are Irish, and it’s historical fiction, not true history.
Based on the sociology of Henry Mayhew, the lyricism of Lerner & Lowe’s “My Fair Lady,” and the charity of John Alfred Groom (1845-1919), the author constructs a fictional tale George Bernard Shawof the London flower-sellers in the late Victorian period. Despite some lapses into 21st-century slang (did the Victorians really call the disease “polio?”), the book successfully recreates the period ... a most moving read ...
Henry Mayhew,
Pygmalionby
N
The History Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Pygmalion (other topics)A Memory of Violets (other topics)
London Labour and the London Poor (other topics)
A Memory of Violets (other topics)
Pygmalion (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Henry Mayhew (other topics)George Bernard Shaw (other topics)
Hazel Gaynor (other topics)
Hazel Gaynor (other topics)
Hazel Gaynor (other topics)
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