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THE EMERALD ISLE - READ IRELAND CHALLENGE
message 101:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
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Jan 31, 2017 09:04PM
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Finished
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James Joyce but will not review it out of respect for those who are still in the buddy read for it. Found another one for this challenge, and its an old one.
by Maire De Paor (no photo) Published in 1958, I was surprised to find it on the shelf, in the Ireland section, in my local library. It must be from when the library was first established. Opened it up and got the "old book" smell! There is one color plate in it and it was a cut and paste! Classic.
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Peter Berresford Ellis - 4 StarsEllis traces the broad history of Celtic migration and influence on Europe from the time they emerge around 6th century B.C. through the dawn of the Christian era. Challenging some of the stereotypes Ellis breaks the society down into its origins, laws, religion, arts and sciences, and roles of its members.
While I’m focused right now on a deep study into Irish history the books does a great job of framing the overall impact of the Celts into broader world history, even having a fascinating impact on Brazil. The two most fascinating aspects of the work is how closely Celtic society and religion parallel India’s history and Hinduism and the origins of the modern day Halloween celebrations. In an earlier read on Irish folktales and mythology I couldn’t help but notice the fairy-tale, happy-ever-after nature of the stories. This is more fully explained in Ellis’ work. Further, while I’ve heard the term Druid before I had very little understanding of the role in their society. If Ellis is to be believed (I will get to that in a moment) they are a fascinating study in their own right.
The work verifies earlier reads of the continuity of Celtic/Irish history in the absence of Roman conquest. You can’t help but really appreciate the fullness of its history, with two royal lines able to trace its genealogy 3,000 when combined with oral tradition. The advanced nature of aspects of this society rival the astounding nature of ancient Egyptians with a law that seems based on a great deal of common sense and justice. The medical technology and laws regulating it was incredibly progressive with the Irish language claiming the world’s largest collection of medical texts in any one language prior to 1800.
This is a quick and easy read but there are a few flaws. First, Ellis is obviously a Celtophile – to the point where he, at times, comes across as not entirely objective. The best example is in dealing with human sacrifice and barbarity of Celtic war. While the argument of “it’s no different than the Romans” may be valid, his approach comes across as a married couple fighting and trying to one up each other on the wrongs committed. It was a little tiresome. He is also a bit repetitive for my taste and he could be contradictory at times. For instance, on one hand he argues that the Church so highly regarded Celtic tradition it absorbed it into its own practices. But, on the other hand, would argue that written history couldn’t be trusted because of the church’s attempt to slander the traditions.
Overall, for someone with limited exposure to Celtic history this is a great place to start.
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Kressel wrote: "Helga wrote: "Kressel wrote: "Helga wrote: "Completed my 4th Ireland Challenge book earlier this week. The 3rd Frank McCourt book describing his 30 years teaching that led him to writing his memoi..."
I just started readying this. Pretty depressing so far, I can see it will take some fortitude to get through this. Quite evocative.
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Frank McCourt
May I post a link to a movie about Ireland that's playing this weekend?
Alisa wrote: "I just started readying this. Pretty depressing so far, I can see it will take some fortitude to get through this. Quite evocative."Believe it or not, there are some funny parts ahead.
I started reading my 5th book in the Ireland challenge by Irish writer John Banville. My first book by this author. It is a quite interesting and descriptive story at the seashore.
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John Banville
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Yes, I tentatively say this - is there any self promotion involved - or it on television. If so - yes.
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The 3rd Frank McCourt book describing his 30 years teaching that led him to w..."
Good for you in terms of stamina and commitment - I hope it gets better.
I don't know how many of you are fans of Luna Lovegood of the Harry Potter series, but the Irish actress who plays her starred in a road trip movie that takes viewers on a journey of the whole country of Ireland. It's playing in select cities in the U.S. this weekend:http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/in...
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Kressel wrote: "Alisa wrote: "I just started readying this. Pretty depressing so far, I can see it will take some fortitude to get through this. Quite evocative."Believe it or not, there are some funny parts ahead."
Good! I'm counting on it. I'm reluctant to say it can't get much worse because I have the feeling it doesn't just suddenly turn into sunshine and lollipops, but hopefully the level of tragedy eases up somewhere along the line.
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I just joined yesterday and started reading this book.How the Irish Saved CivilizationThomas CahillMy son read this book in preparation for a May term abroad two years ago. I am on page 40 and enjoying it very much. Looking at old maps while reading helps me enormously.
Hello Astrida! Welcome to the Irish Challenge. The book you mentioned is one I'm tackling, too. On that topic, let me help you with your book citation. Whenever you post on a History Book Club thread, and the post includes a book reference, we ask that you cite the book according to our format. It has proven extremely helpful to our readers, and it's pretty easy to get the hang of.
Here's what your post should look like:
I just joined yesterday and started reading this book: How the Irish Saved Civilization by Thomas Cahill.
My son read this book in preparation for a May term abroad two years ago. I am on page 40 and enjoying it very much. Looking at old maps while reading helps me enormously.
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Thomas Cahill Please try to edit your message by clicking the "edit" link at the bottom of your message. I'll be here to help if you need any. And enjoy the book!
Mary
Admin (T) - Russia and Russian History
I will join the challenge too, starting out withDubliners by James Joyce
and
How the Irish Saved Civilization by Thomas Cahill
I think I saw a documentary with the name ¨How the Irish saved civilization¨ somewhere (youtube?) and that was really interesting. It must be based on the same book and I can really recommend it. I remember that I saw a history series on Ireland there as well, which was great. It may have been removed, though.
I will be adding more books to my challenge when I have looked around :) I will read through this chat for inspiration.
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I will look for the documentary - it might be an interesting one to post over here for the Ireland challenge group.
We cite books using the book cover when available, the word by inserted manually, then the author's photo if available and always the authors's link. It looks like you made a great effort but this is what they should like:
by
James Joyce
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Thomas CahillHopefully, we will be able to provide some inspiration for you here.
Finished:
by Máire de Paor (no photo)Being published in 1958, is book is now dated so I would not use this as my sole source on Early Christian Ireland. However, this is one of the earliest books on the subject, and as such, has made a large impact. Worth reading though.
This is my 5th book, so my 5 challenge books are read. Not done "reading ireland" though. Just slowing down now.
Thank you Bentley and thank you so much for all the brilliant introductions you have written everywhere. I am pretty sure that the documentaries were1) How the Celts saved Brittain 1-2 (different author)
and
2) BBC: The story of Ireland
It includes medieval history and I do not remember how much the BBC documentary really goes into the formation of Ireland and the troubles of Northern Ireland. There might be something better on that topic, but it is really enjoyable. The BBC series is based on the book
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].I am looking around right now for introductions to
Joyce and contemporaries, as I expect that understanding the Irish history and relation to Britain might be key to reading them. I might have a second look at the BBC documentaries.
I recently finished this, Excellent readThe Immortal Irishman: The Irish Revolutionary who became an American Hero
[bookcover:The Im..."
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If I may, I would suggest the following changes to assist you in editing your message #129 to be consistent with our format. For clarity, we have the text of the message first and the citations for the books below. Here is an example:
Thank you Bentley and thank you so much for all the . . . . I am pretty sure that the documentaries were "How the Celts Saved Britain 1-2" (different author) and "BBC: The Story of Ireland."
It includes the medieval history . . . .There might be something better on that topic, but it is really enjoyable. The BBC series is based on the following book:
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Neil HegartyI am looking around right now for introductions to James Joyce and contemporaries, as I expect that. . . .a second look at the BBC documentaries.
James Joyce Thank you for allowing me to assist you in making these changes. Please let me know if you need any additional assistance in editing your post.
Lorna (T) - Civil Rights - Supreme Court
Mod
I would just like to provide some assistance with your book citation in message #130. In the History Book Club, the format is to cite a book with the book cover (if available) followed by the author's photo and link. Here is an example of how your post should look:
I recently finished this, excellent read.
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Timothy EganThank you for allowing me to assist you in making these changes. Please let me know if you need any help in editing your post. Good luck with your challenge!
Lorna (T) - Civil Rights - Supreme Court
What a disappointment! But, it really isn't the author's fault. It's just that with the exception of two letters written by Patrick himself - Confession and Letter to the Soldiers of Croticus (both of which are at least fully included in this work) - apparently very little historical information remains on Patrick. Unfortunately, Confession reliability is suspect; it seems more of a modern-day retelling of several Old Testament stories in the shape of Patrick's life as if further emphasizing God's direct selection and approval of Patrick and his work in Ireland. All we know is that Patrick was from a Roman family in Britain. They were a land-owning family and served the church for two generations. At the age of fifteen Patrick was kidnapped and sold into slavery into Ireland. Patrick claims to have received a vision commanding him to return home. After a one month journey across Ireland he finds a ship willing to take him aboard and back to Britain. Reunited with his family, he claims to have another vision to return to Ireland and convert its people. He eventually became a Deacon then a Bishop and faced opposition with the British church, which used a sin of some kind (we don't even know what it is) from his teenage years as a pretext to investigate Patrick. That's ALL we know. We don't even have the benefit of knowing what towns he was born in, lived in slavery, found a return ship to return home, where he preached, where he died, or where he's buried. We don't know how long he stayed in Britain before returning to England. We don't know the outcome of the investigation.
The book was frustrating for its lack facts and it continuous use of phrases like "you can imagine", "might have", "likely", "probably," "possibly", etc. But, the lack of documents is understandable taking into account Irish culture at the time. It was heavily reliant on oral tradition and writing religious texts was forbidden in Celtic religion. But, it is a shame because the conviction and genuine care of the Irish Christians displayed in the letter to Croticus gives you a glimpse into his heart. It would have been nice to know more. Patrick is probably a subject that should be left to historical fiction writers rather than non-fiction unless more evidence is ever uncovered.
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Bentley wrote: "Sorry it did not live up to your expectations but thank you for letting us know. I think the subject matter is excellent though but not enough to back things up."Yeah, I wish those early Irish folks had realized they were going to fascinate us and would've written more things down!
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Micheál Ó Siochrú -3.5 Rounded to 4 StarsCromwell, a committed Puritan, is an incredibly controversial figure in British history. On the one hand BBC viewers proclaimed him one of the greatest Britons of all time. Conversely, he evokes viscerally strong emotions from the Irish. Having only spent nine months in Ireland between 1649-1650, he is considered by the Irish a war criminal, a religious persecutor, and ethnic cleanser as he continued to carry out the work of the British crown bringing natives and Catholics into subjection.
Cromwell was one of the signatories that brought about Charles I's execution, inflaming the Irish situation. Having little military experience he was tapped to lead troops into Ireland. In the summer of 1649, Cromwell was sent to Ireland with two objectives: to place it firmly under English control; to superintend the confiscation the land of all 'rebels' - as a result almost forty per cent of the land of Ireland was redistributed from Catholics born in Ireland to Protestants born in Britain. His first target was the town of Drogheda north of Dublin which he stormed and captured. Perhaps 2,500 men, mainly in arms, were killed during the storm and several hundred more - all the officers, all Catholic priests and friars, every tenth common soldier - were killed, many clubbed to death. It was in accordance with the laws of war, but it went far beyond what any General had done in England. Cromwell then perpetrated a messier massacre at Wexford. Thereafter most towns surrendered on his approach, and he scrupulously observed surrender articles and spared the lives of soldiers and civilians. It was and is a controversial conquest. But, from the English point of view, it worked. In the summer of 1650, he returned to England and was sent off to Scotland, where Charles II had been proclaimed and crowned as King of Britain and Ireland. In a campaign as unrelenting but less brutal, he wiped out the royal armies and established a military occupation of the lowlands and west that was to last until 1660. In September 1651 he returned to a roman-style triumphant entry in London.
As I go through this study of Irish history I'm amazed at the profound effect Henry VII's separation from the Catholic church impacted the Irish. Readers, both fiction and historical non-fiction, are often attracted to the Tudor period for a number of reasons. Often it is the salacious nature of his relationship with his wives that receive the most focus. But, so far at least in my study, actions approximately 600 years ago are still felt on the island that now stands divided between north and south.
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by Micheál Ó Siochrú (no photo)
by Patrick M. Geoghegan - 4 StarsBorn at the start of the American Revolution, Daniel O'Connell, known as "counselor," "agitator," "liberator," and "king of Ireland," liked to say this inspired his love of freedom. He was a colorful lawyer that became known as the first great 19th-century Irish nationalist leader. He used his great oratory skills and legal knowledge to focus on galvanizing the average Catholic citizen throughout Ireland to his pet cause - Catholic emancipation without veto power over church appointments by the Crown.
Ironically, O'Connell, although born Catholic, was not devoutly religious when he took up the cause. He considered himself a deist early on but had a conversion later in life. Yet, he believed earnestly in the cause and did a great deal to advance the rights of Catholics in a tumultuous time.
He is a fun character for a biography (reminds me a bit of Benjamin Franklin) and a man of contradictions. Miserably lacking in managing his own finances he successfully started Catholic organization, even though illegal at the time, and secured adequate funding to advance their causes. His courtroom antics made for some delightful reading. However, his theatrics could get him in trouble and he found himself in two duels. After his conversion and the death of D’Esterre he vowed, and successfully so, never to participate again.
He was a flawed man and Geoghegan seems to portray him in his full light. But, he did seem to learn from his mistakes (with the exception of finances) and grow from them. After sacrificing a great deal for the cause he ultimately won an election but was ineligible to sit take his seat in parliament since the oath of allegiance was incompatible with Catholicism. The Emancipation Act was passed to allow people of all faith to be seated but it was not retroactive and O'Connell had to win a subsequent election to take his seat.
It was disappointing for the book to conclude as O'Connell took his seat. I would have liked to have read more about the rest of his life. Some of the terms can be a bit confusing. Winston Churchill once referred to the U.S. and Great Britain as "two countries divided by a common language." That is the case here. I had the luxury of emailing my colleague in Scotland at the Press and Journal for clarification. Otherwise, I may have been left a bit confused.
Still, it was a good read and actually a bit fun at times.
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by Cecil Woodham-Smith - 4 StarsIn the mid-1800's Europe witnessed potato crops affected by a fungus that in unique circumstances in Ireland became known as the "potato famine," which saw mass Exodus of emigration to the United States and greatly shaped the landscape of future generations in this quickly evolving economy. Between 1845-1849 the unusual economy of Ireland and a complete dependence on the potato by a peasantry whose only commodity was subsistence on the crop they could produce each year experienced horrific ramifications when, in a perfect storm, were helpless to complete crop failure followed by typhus along with drought and unusually cold winter. Sadly, even when motivated by good intentions, the British government was inept at providing relief stemming from ignorance of the island's populace and stymied by a class of landowners who, for the most part, were guided by a sense a greed that ran counter to policy measures and set the stage for what would be generations of rebellion from the people of Ireland.
This rounds an interesting group of reads for me and it has become increasingly obvious why there is such a tumultuous history in Ireland. From Great Britain's annexation of Ireland to Henry VIII's separation of the country from the Catholic Church, to views held by England related to Ireland to the "potato famine," the seeds of rebellion are long simmering. One of the things I most appreciated about the book was that it answered a question I've always had about this era. Living on an island why did fish not supplement the potato as a staple of the diet? I'm glad I read the biography on Daniel O'Connell just prior to this read. I expressed some frustration with abrupt ending of that book but Smith provides the conclusion of his story as well as his son's role in the country's history. The succession of of those after O'Connell is a bit reminiscent of Malcolm X following MLK in our history.
This is certainly a sad era that goes far beyond a five year famine and is relevant to the histories of a number of countries - Ireland, American, and Canada.
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by Cecil Woodham-Smith (no photo)
Deal me in...I'm going to try for the following five:
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C.S. Lewis
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W.B. Yeats
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C.S. Lewis
by Eamon Duffy (no photo)
by Thomas Kinsella (no photo)
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Colum McCannSynopsis: This book by the Irish American author is a story that spans centuries and is intermingled. There are 3 different time periods and three different plot lines all connected in a fine weave to Ireland. It takes place in 1919 in Newfoundland with two aviators as they attempt the first nonstop flight across the Atlantic Ocean to Ireland in a modified bomber from WWI. The next story takes place in Dublin Ireland, when Frederick Douglass goes on a lecture tour for his autobiography and finds the Irish sympathetic to his cause. He finds famine in the countryside that are astonishing even to him, who was once an American slave. The 3rd story is about an American Senator who goes to Belfast Ireland to help in the peace talks with Northern Ireland. These 3 crossings are linked through the ages by people and their descendants. It starts with Lily Duggan who was the housemaid who met and was inspired by Frederick Douglass. She travels to America to start her life over. We then meet her daughter and granddaughter, Emily and Lottie and read about their life but meet them the first time when Emily as a journalist meets the aviators and writes a story about them.
This was a really interesting book by this acclaimed author and the imagery he invokes.
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Helga wrote: "by Colum McCannSynopsis: This book by the Irish American author is a story that spans centuries and is interming..."
This one looked really good. Started reading it yesterday. Good follow-up book to Lindbergh, which I recently finished.
by A. Scott Berg (no photo)
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Finished my second book for this challenge.
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Lisa McInerney.This is a contemporary novel set in Cork (a city in south west Ireland) about the coming of age of Ryan Cusack, intertwined with various members of the delinquent and criminal community. It did grab me (ie great narrative drive at the beginning) and have interesting characters, but it is full of very foul mouthed, bad language and undesirable conduct.
The book shows a different side of Ireland, a contemporary poverty, that appears to have more in common with (what I imagine) large inner cities must be like. But it is not voyeuristic, it tries to show how an intelligent youth takes the path and makes the choices he does.
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I finished
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Colum McCannI can't really say I enjoyed it. The first part about the aviators was great but after that I was somewhat at sea. I feel I would have liked it better had I known more about the history of the diverse times that the author writes about. I enjoy McCann's style of writing so that helped me finish the book.
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I'm late to the party, as usual, but since I've always been fascinated by Ireland... Here goes! I'll start out with The Wonder by Emma Donoghue.
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You are very close with the citation.
You only missed adding the author's link after the photo which you did in the sentence above.
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Emma Donoghue
I finished
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Sebastian Barry.I have been mulling this enjoyable read over since finishing it and wondering where to “place” it. It is a first person narrative, written in a punchy colloquial style that sets it apart from other historical fiction about the US that I have read recently. It is not tricksy (along the lines of Philipp Meyer’s The Son), but has a more straightforward story (more like Lonesome Dove). However, although the language is colloquial, it is precise, well chosen and full of unusual images, whilst being believably direct.
Having the main character as an Irish immigrant, continues to create a depth to the writing (an ability for the character to reflect upon his experience) that would not otherwise exist and also to place the horrors of creating the American West in the nineteenth century in the context of the poverty from which immigrants were fleeing.
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Philipp Meyer
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Larry McMurtry
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