ARCHIVE - SEPTEMBER 2016 - The House of Twenty Thousand Books

[Teri]

Samanta wrote: "Response to Week Two Discussion Questions - The Hallway: An Extraordinary Portal – 85 - 105"

Samanta - Abramsky Family

(view spoiler)[Just expanding on what I said about Chimen and Mimi. I felt that they had a deeper connection with the Nirenstein family than the Abramsky family, but it's hard to tell. Again, not the focal point of the story, but these relationships had an effect on Chimen and how he handled himself throughout life. (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Response to Teri - Friendships and Dreams

(view spoiler)[Oh, I believe that with all my heart. I've dreamt my mom countless times, and often she would help me solve a dilemma I had or try to tell me something. Doesn't make it any easier, though. (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Samanta wrote: "Response to Week Two Discussion Questions - The Hallway: An Extraordinary Portal – 106 - 126"

Samanta - Respect with Differing Opinions

(view spoiler)[I agree! I think we (as a society) have a lot to learn from the way Chimen handled his relationships with his family. People forget that you can agree to disagree. That's what makes us unique and special.

There's more on this subject in this weeks reading. ;-) (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Response to Teri - Mimi

(view spoiler)[From what I've read about Mimi as a young woman, I see her as no nonsense woman, ready to lead and fight, but then, when she married, she suddenly took this very traditional role of a housewife, always in the kitchen. I must confess, food or no food, that I'm a bit disappointed. Chimen also embraced this more traditional role. It was just weird to read about, since I imagine them as revolutionaries, fighting societal dogmas. (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Samanta wrote: "Response to Teri - Friendships and Dreams"

Samanta - Mom's

(view spoiler)[No, it doesn't make it easier but you learn to cherish those dreams along with your memories of her. This past week was the 14th anniversary of my mom's passing. I still see her in my dreams from time to time and it still seems like yesterday that she was here. And in a way...she is still here. (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Samanta wrote: "Response to Teri - Mimi"

Samanta - Mimi

(view spoiler)[Yes, that's where it became fuzzy for me too. I hope to read more about her later in the book. We'll see. They both continue to change as they leave the Communist Party (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Week Four Discussion Questions - The Dining Room: Rituals and Rebels – 175 - 186

(view spoiler)[1. We’ve talked a bit about Chimen and Mimi keeping a kosher kitchen and following Jewish tradition, despite being atheists. Are you surprised to learn that their communist friends would also participate in some of these traditions such as the Passover Seder? What are your thoughts on this?

2. In talking about the reason for Chimen’s political ideology change, the author states, “How did the murder of a child, so intimate both in its execution and its consequences, fit into a one-size-fits-all philosophy that preached that, if only everyone recognized the brotherhood of man, a universal, everlasting peace would inevitably follow?” Do you think it’s possible to follow a religion or ideology completely? Do you agree with everything your religious or political affiliation stands for?


Jewish family praying before Seder dinner during Passover festival - Leland Bobbe/The Image Bank (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Week Four Discussion Questions - The Dining Room: Rituals and Rebels – 187 - 196

(view spoiler)[1. When Chimen finally leaves the Communist Party, the author mentions that he “kills off C. Allen and all his other aliases. He becomes, again, simply Chimen Abramsky.” Do you think that it was like a death for Chimen to leave his aliases behind? Why or why not?

2. How did the Abramsky home change when Chimen and Mimi left the Communist Party?


Chimen Abramsky (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Response to Week Three Discussion Questions – Entertaining at Home

(view spoiler)[1. What memories of family and friend get-togethers do you have? Did you have a matriarch that was the family cook, like Mimi? If not, how did / do you spend time with family and friends?

We had a lot of those when I was a kid and my mom was still alive, especially for religious holidays or birthdays. For summer vacation we would travel to my grandparents' home in Zadar on the coast, and every year, a "fiesta" is organized in our district to celebrate Virgin Mary of Stanovi (the name of our district), who is the patron saint there. My grandparents would without fault organize a big celebration, with lots of food (grilled lamb or pork, killed at the spot was a must), inviting all the relatives (and there are many). They made a break when my mom died, but they have started it again. We also had huge birthday celebration for us kids here in Zagreb. May is a month when many of us were born, so we would organize a big celebration for a few of us together. My mom was always the leader of the party, the cook and the entertainer (the only problem was that she would doze off after one glass of wine, which made us all laugh). We still have occasional get-togethers at my grandparents, when we can manage to come together, but the gatherings with our friends stopped, because, well, life goes on, and we along with it.

2. In chapter four, the author talks about how the house always had noise going on due to all of the guests that would visit. It was if the house was alive. Was there a home in your family or within your friendship circle that was the social center, so to speak? Not just for parties and get-togethers, but the place where everyone seems to gravitate for a visit, to get advice or help?

Not really, because we all live away from each other, but the get-togethers in my grandparents' house were/are always noisy because if you put 12 people from Dalmatia to one room, you are bound to have hearing problems after. :D (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Response to Week Four Discussion Questions - The Dining Room: Rituals and Rebels – 175 - 186

(view spoiler)[1. We’ve talked a bit about Chimen and Mimi keeping a kosher kitchen and following Jewish tradition, despite being atheists. Are you surprised to learn that their communist friends would also participate in some of these traditions such as the Passover Seder? What are your thoughts on this?

Not really. As someone said before, your culture is so ingrained within you, you consider it completely normal, even though you declare yourself a non-religious person. I have an example in my family, too. My brother, who considers himself an atheist, celebrates Christmas without problems. I think that all those religious holidays we have, have become more of an opportunity to spend time with the people we love, than actual celebration of our religion or belief system.

2. In talking about the reason for Chimen’s political ideology change, the author states, “How did the murder of a child, so intimate both in its execution and its consequences, fit into a one-size-fits-all philosophy that preached that, if only everyone recognized the brotherhood of man, a universal, everlasting peace would inevitably follow?” Do you think it’s possible to follow a religion or ideology completely? Do you agree with everything your religious or political affiliation stands for?

Definitely. We have many examples of that in the world today. The only problem is that people tend to twist their religion to fit their own agenda and character flaws.

I most certainly do not. I have a problem with so many aspects of the religion I was brought in, that I've completely backed off from performing any public rituals. Still, I can't help but believe in Jesus, so I guess atheism is out of the question for me. :)
As for politics, I consider myself an apolitical person, or rather politics-hater, so no, not involved in it either. (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Response to Week Four Discussion Questions - The Dining Room: Rituals and Rebels – 187 - 196 - Chimen's aliases

(view spoiler)[1. When Chimen finally leaves the Communist Party, the author mentions that he “kills off C. Allen and all his other aliases. He becomes, again, simply Chimen Abramsky.” Do you think that it was like a death for Chimen to leave his aliases behind? Why or why not?

I think it was more like a purification ritual or a ritual of liberation. He wanted to get rid of everything that connected him with the part of him that he now detested, and doing a "small", "simple" thing like killing your aliases can be quite purifying. (hide spoiler)]

[Michele]

Response: The Dining Room: Rituals and Rebels – 187 - 196

(view spoiler)[ 1. When Chimen finally leaves the Communist Party, the author mentions that he “kills off C. Allen and all his other aliases. He becomes, again, simply Chimen Abramsky.” Do you think that it was like a death for Chimen to leave his aliases behind? Why or why not?

It seems to me that it was a case of purging out something that he detested. He didn't seem to like that part of his past, so killing off the aliases was a way to purify himself and get a fresh start.

2. How did the Abramsky home change when Chimen and Mimi left the Communist Party?

It got quiet for a while. That happens when you cut ties with your past. There is a period of quiet before you pick up new friends and things start humming again. (hide spoiler)]

[Helga]

I have a message from Sasha for the group so anyone that wants to ask him questions might want to join at this time. Friday 10AM PST.

Helga,

I'l try to go onto the site to join the discussion at 10am West Coast time this Friday. I have an hour or so free then.

Sasha.

Sasha Abramsky,
Freelance journalist and author.
Most recent books: The House of Twenty Thousand Books; The American Way of Poverty.
www.sashaabramsky.com www.thevoicesofpoverty.org

[Teri]

Samanta wrote: "Response to Week Three Discussion Questions – Entertaining at Home"

Samanta - Family Rituals

(view spoiler)[It's good to hear that you are carrying on your traditions even if it is not as often. Lot of memories being shared. (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Samanta wrote: "Response to Week Four Discussion Questions - The Dining Room: Rituals and Rebels – 175 - 186"

Samanta - Celebrating Holidays

(view spoiler)[You make a great point. I do think that Chimen and Mimi used the holidays as a time to get together with their like minded friends as an excuse to have some great discussions. Or is it that they were already together for these discussions that they decided to honor these traditional celebrations? :-) (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Michele wrote: "Response: The Dining Room: Rituals and Rebels – 187 - 196"

Samanta and Michele - Chimen losing his aliases

(view spoiler)[Yes, it was a kind of death for Chimen. Do you think he was getting rid of an alter ego more than he was just becoming his true self again?

Who was the real Chimen? Was he a revolutionary or just a rebellious young man while he had the aliases? (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Week Four Discussion Questions - Upstairs Front Room: Roots – 231 - 249

(view spoiler)[1. When Chimen’s mother died, he contemplated how he would be remembered upon his passing. How do you think Chimen is remembered? How do you want to be remembered? What would be your epitaph?

2. What are your thoughts on Chimen’s friendship with Louis Jacobs? Do you think one could “be good Jew without… necessarily subscribing to Orthodoxy?” Would that be the same with other religions?


Spinoza's Opera Posthuma (hide spoiler)]

[Samanta]

Teri wrote: "Michele wrote: "Response: The Dining Room: Rituals and Rebels – 187 - 196"

Response to Teri - Chimen losing his aliases

(view spoiler)[Both, I think. He wanted to get away from his father's restrictive view on life, but he also found a true merit in socialism. Even when he left the Party, he remained true to Marx for many years. (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Helga wrote: "I have a message from Sasha for the group so anyone that wants to ask him questions might want to join at this time. Friday 10AM PST.

Helga,

I'l try to go onto the site to join the discussion at ..."

I'll do my best to watch for him to join tomorrow afternoon and guide him to this thread.

[Paula]

Teri wrote: "Kaleen wrote: "Week Three Discussion Questions - The Kitchen: Salt, Sugar, and a Dash of Love – 139 - 150."

Kaleen - Religion and Culture
(view spoiler)[.. I don't think that say, a Christian would necessarily follow a certain culture if they left the faith and became an atheist. Would you agree or not? (hide spoiler)]
"

(view spoiler)[I'm Swedish and if there is one secular/atheist Christian country in the world this is it. Most people still celebrate Christmas and Easter, and get married and buried in church. The culture remains, but the religious significance has been removed. (hide spoiler)]

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Helga after all of this time - I too received a note from Sasha indicating that he would be on but I do not think he understands our virtual set up and that folks pop in at any time during the 24 hour period wherever they might be globally. I will respond to him today but folks who are interested - this might be a great time to converse with the author which is always an exciting experience

[Teri]

Paula wrote: "Teri wrote: "Kaleen wrote: "Week Three Discussion Questions - The Kitchen: Salt, Sugar, and a Dash of Love – 139 - 150."

Paula - Religion and Culture

(view spoiler)[Thanks for the input. I assume that Sweden is one of many that are like that. I think that if people in the US were honest, more and more are less religious and really just celebrate the secularized holidays than the true meaning behind them. (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Week Four Discussion Questions - Upstairs Front Room: Roots – 250 - 266

(view spoiler)[1. Were you surprised at the conditions of the front room where Chimen's important books were held? i.e. hot temps and dampness due to leaky ceiling?

2. In speaking of Chimen’s change in focus in life, the author says “'To be is to do, and to know is to do,’ Spinoza had written…It was also a call to action, but it was no longer an explicit call to revolution. Chimen remained vitally engaged in the world around him, but he no longer felt compelled to shake the pillars of the temple.” What are your thoughts on this statement? Do you think that one can make major contributions / changes to a cause without “shaking the pillars of the temple?”


Rashi (Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki) (hide spoiler)]

[Sasha]

This is Sasha Abramsky, author of The House of Twenty Thousand Books. Bentley asked me to join the site discussion today; I'm online for the next hour or so if people have questions.

[Sasha]

Regarding the idea of shaking the pillars of the temple, my sense of my granddad is that by late-middle age he felt he had done quite enough shaking. As he aged, he grew more interested in interpreting the world than in leading a fight to change the world. He remained passionately interested in social issues, but he no longer considered himself a revolutionary. I think as he aged he viewed his role in life as an expository one rather than as a leader of praxis.

[Teri]

Sasha wrote: "This is Sasha Abramsky, author of The House of Twenty Thousand Books. Bentley asked me to join the site discussion today; I'm online for the next hour or so if people have questions."

Welcome, Sasha. We're glad you are able to join us. I'm Teri, one of the Assisting Moderators. Feel free to read through some of the posts and comment, if you like. I know a some of members would love to ask you some questions, but I do not know if they are currently online.

[Sasha]

Bentley wrote: "Helga after all of this time - I too received a note from Sasha indicating that he would be on but I do not think he understands our virtual set up and that folks pop in at any time during the 24 h..."
Bentley, I do get the format-- just have something of a time crunch today. But I'll try to go onto the thread a few times today to respond to whomever has questions.

[Helga]

Sasha I am glad that you are able to join us. I think you will get some questions once people know you are online. I am enjoying your book immensely.

[Michele]

Sasha wrote: "This is Sasha Abramsky, author of The House of Twenty Thousand Books. Bentley asked me to join the site discussion today; I'm online for the next hour or so if people have questions."

Hi Sasha and welcome to Goodreads!

My question: What made you decide to write a book about your grandparents? and once the decision was made, how did you get started?

[Helga]

(view spoiler)[ Did your Grandfather find that when he was a Communist that some of his friends or acquaintances were also religiously Jewish and would go to services and pray if they could or did so in secret? Was it a conflict to being a religious Jew versus a Communist in that they could be one or the other and not both? I know your grandparents kept Kosher and followed many of the Jewish customs. (hide spoiler)]

[Kaleen]

Good question Helga! I'm curious about that as well!

[Sasha]

Michele wrote: "Sasha wrote: "This is Sasha Abramsky, author of The House of Twenty Thousand Books. Bentley asked me to join the site discussion today; I'm online for the next hour or so if people have questions."..."

I write about this somewhat in the book itself; basically, I wanted to memorialize a group of people, and the world (s) that they created, which were rapidly becoming footnotes to history. My grandparents relationship to ideas, their politics, their mode of interacting with people and with culture always fascinated me, and it seemed to me they were the end of a long line, one that fused both the religion of their ancestors and the politics of the early and mid-20th century, in a unique way. I didn't want their stories to simply vanish once they died. So, I think that was really one of the main motivations here. The other one was more personal; as a writer, writing about them allowed me in some ways to assuage the grief I felt at their deaths. It was, for me, a very personal, almost meditative experience, and researching the book it really allowed me the privilege of spending a huge amount of time having a sort of virtual conversation with these people, no longer alive, who had been such a huge part of my life as I grew up.

[Sasha]

Helga wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

I think it was a huge, unresolved, conflict, and one that forms a large, underlying theme in my book. My grandparents weren't religious -- in the sense that they didn't believe in a God. But they were both deeply influenced by the broader culture of the Jewish religion, from its rituals to its way of approaching knowledge. Chimes studied Marxism in an utterly Talmudic way, reading the texts obsessively, parsing the small details, memorizing huge tracts etc etc. I think in some ways he was a unique intellect, but in other ways the overlap of the secular politics and the religious training/background wasn't that uncommon. Many of their CP friends came out of religious households that had migrated from Eastern Europe -- and many of the men had, as boys, been educated in Cheders. It fascinates me, this tension between modernity and tradition, because it's never fully resolved, perhaps never can be fully resolved.

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Sasha wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Helga after all of this time - I too received a note from Sasha indicating that he would be on but I do not think he understands our virtual set up and that folks pop in at any time..."

That is wonderful Sasha and I will add a Q&A thread for you so that the questions and your responses do not get lost in the shuffle and of course please post here too. Thank you.

[Teri]

Week Four Discussion Questions - Wrapping Up the Week

(view spoiler)[We have now visited the major rooms of Chimen's home. We'll revisit two this coming week as we wrap up our discussion.

1. What has been your favorite room? Why? What did you learn about Chimen (and Mimi?) in this room?

2. In the chapter on the Front Room, the author reflects on the death of some of Chimen’s contemporary friends and how he was able to move on. “Quite consciously, Chimen now used his books, his vast, unique knowledge, to bring fresh blood into his life, to introduce to Hillway people with whom he could once again discourse and debate.” What does this tell you about Chimen? Do you think he enjoyed just being able to talk with others around stimulating conversation?

(hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Week Four Discussion Questions - Wrapping Up the Week

(view spoiler)[ 1. In the final paragraphs of chapter 6, the author discusses Chimen’s philosophical change in views, from Marx’s “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it,” to Spinoza’s “To be is to do, and to know is to do.” What are your thoughts on this? Has Chimen really changed or just his focus?

2. Many scholars and philosophers have been discussed in this book, all of which influenced Chimen in some way. Which one(s) seemed to have the most profound effect on Chimen? Have any of them particularly interested you?

(hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Bentley has created a spoiler Q & A thread for us to ask Sasha any questions you may have. Please post your questions here:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Thank you, Bentley.

[Teri]

Chapter Overviews and Summaries
Week Five

(view spoiler)[Chapter 7 – Dining Room Resurgent: Rebirth – 267 - 302

This chapter revisits Chimen and Mimi’s time spent in the dining room. When they left the Communist Party, the people they entertained at Hillway changed. They lost friends and colleagues when they left the party and added new people to the mix. Chimen becomes a professor. He spends time traveling as a visiting professor and giving lectures worldwide before finally retiring. Family time at Hillway is also discussed.


Professor Chimen Abramsky

Chapter 8 – Front Room Revisited: Endings – 303 - 328

The author reflects on family often gathered in the front room of the house. Chimen regards modern culture dismissively but does enjoy some of the loose aspects of it, like calling someone by their first name. Chimen travels to Russia. Mimi’s health declines. The author reflects on Chimen’s life.


Highgate Cemetery (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Week Five Discussion Questions - Dining Room Resurgent: Rebirth – 267 - 285

(view spoiler)[1. Why do you think Chimen loved teaching so much? Do you think teaching changed him in any way or provided a specific outlet for him?

2. In speaking of the apartment he stayed in while acting as visiting professor in Boston, Chimen wrote to Mimi that the place must have been owned by “an eccentric bachelor; it is empty of anything, no kettle, no telephone, full of empty cupboards. I feel, at the moment, cut off from the world.” What does this tell you about his life back at Hillway? What is missing for him in Boston?


Jacob Talmon(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[Michele]

Response: Dining Room Resurgent: Rebirth – 267 - 285

(view spoiler)[ 1. Why do you think Chimen loved teaching so much? Do you think teaching changed him in any way or provided a specific outlet for him?

I think he missed the camaraderie of the communist party. I think he replaced that with teaching. He had such knowledge and a need to connect, that teaching, debating was his outlet.

2. In speaking of the apartment he stayed in while acting as visiting professor in Boston, Chimen wrote to Mimi that the place must have been owned by “an eccentric bachelor; it is empty of anything, no kettle, no telephone, full of empty cupboards. I feel, at the moment, cut off from the world.” What does this tell you about his life back at Hillway? What is missing for him in Boston?

He and Mimi had created a rich environment at Hillway, full of people, food and ideas. To be without that must have been hard and probably why he felt cut off from the world. (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Michele wrote: " Response: Dining Room Resurgent: Rebirth – 267 - 285"

Michele - Chimen and Teaching

(view spoiler)[Don't you think that Chimen was born to teach? I think it would have been fascinating to take one of his classes. The way Sasha talks about Chimen's memory, I kind of assume he had an eidetic memory.

I felt so lonely for Chimen when I was reading about his time in Boston. I wonder if Mimi was ever able to travel much with him. (hide spoiler)]

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Response to Teri

(view spoiler)[Chimen seems to me to be an person unto himself who did not march to anybody's else's drum - yet did you send he was a lonely man who found his connections through books even though he had many people around him. I think he is fascinating however. (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Bentley wrote: "Response to Teri"

Bentley - Chimen / Loneliness

(view spoiler)[Yeah, I did get that same sense. It seemed that as long as he was talking books and surrounded by them, he was comfortable. I think he also needed Mimi with him. Not necessarily to engage in conversation with, but to know she was there. His security blanket if you will. I can tell they had a special connection.

I wonder what she thought of all of his books. (hide spoiler)]

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Response to Teri

(view spoiler)[I wondered too - he seemed to be an interesting combination of the introvert and the person who worked at being an extrovert with his friends and family but it did not come naturally. I feel his soul connection was with his books and knowledge - I guess I can understand that - I am similar I think. I think I sense security in the people that I love and suffer loss not that terrifically - and I think that Chimen was the same kind of soul. I think he needed his connections as do I. I really think I can read him well. I have to wonder why he set himself apart from his fellow men with his beliefs - maybe that too provided an extra layer of security from being part of that group of thinkers and set him apart to explore his own thoughts and vagaries of the mind. Sometimes folks like Chimen can be lonely even if they are surrounded by crowds of people - they do not energize with people but with solitude. He is an interesting study - and I guess I would like to learn more about what he was really like when the doors were shut and he was with himself. (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Week Five Discussion Questions - Dining Room Resurgent: Rebirth – 286 - 302

(view spoiler)[1. Why do you think Chimen developed writer's block later in his life?

2. Why do you think it seemed important for Chimen to continue the Jewish traditions after Mimi passed away? How important was family to Chimen?


Sandra Pepys (20th century School), 'The City of Jerusalem', oil on canvas(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Week Five Discussion Questions - Front Room Revisited: Endings – 303 - 316

(view spoiler)[1. What are your thoughts on Chimen’s reactions to modern music and culture?

2. The author talks about Chimen’s reflection on his father after his death. Do you think Chimen felt guilty for his time in the Communist Party?


Mimi's Favorite Radio Show (hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Week Five Discussion Questions - Front Room Revisited: Endings – 317 - 328

(view spoiler)[ 1. The author talks about how Chimen became lonely after Mimi passed away. Do you think he was lonely just because she was gone? How had the house changed in Chimen’s later years?

2. In reflecting on Chimen’s book collection, the author states, “Most collectors, their collections are near completion and they’re looking for just a few more pieces.” Sitting or lying in his front room, surrounded by books, Chimen knew that his life’s puzzle, his House of Books, was almost complete.” What are your thoughts on Chimen’s life? Do you think his life was complete?

(hide spoiler)]

[Teri]

Week Five Discussion Questions - Final Thoughts

Thank you all for another great Book of the Month discussion. I hope to see you next month for The Soul of an Octopus: A Surprising Exploration into the Wonder of Consciousness

by Sy Montgomery

(view spoiler)[ 1. What are your final thoughts on the book, on Chimen, and on his House of Twenty Thousand Books?

(hide spoiler)]

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

This is the link to the Q&A thread that I set up for Sasha.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...