Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
Heyer in General
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Your Bottom 5 Georgette Heyer's
Alathea wrote: "Thank you Carol. I must have missed the Sydney Conference thread because I only started following this group in September. I haven't read Harry Smith's memoirs, maybe I'll give them a go."
No worries. It is taking me a long time because I'm reading online. Harry's writing style very readable!
My top 5 would be the talisman ring, sprig Muslin, Cotillion, reluctant eidow, faro's Daughter
Until we read Sprig Muslin this month, I had totally forgotten who was in it. I love it, too, Louise!
Louise wrote: "My top 5 would be the talisman ring, sprig Muslin, Cotillion, reluctant eidow, faro's Daughter"Psst I've started a top 10 thread! :)
Carol ♛ Type, Oh Queen! ♛ wrote: "Louise wrote: "My top 5 would be the talisman ring, sprig Muslin, Cotillion, reluctant eidow, faro's Daughter"Psst I've started a top 10 thread! :)"
Thank you for make it a top 10, because I can't narrow it down to 5.
Karlyne wrote: " Thank you ..."
Sigh! I've just discovered I can't narrow it down to 10! But I tried!
Carol ♛ Type, Oh Queen! ♛ wrote: "Karlyne wrote: " Thank you ..."
Sigh! I've just discovered I can't narrow it down to 10! But I tried!"
I really can't, either. I don't believe we're meant to.
For me, Heyer's best attribute is her sense of humor. So the books where she shows this the best are the books I like the best.
Alathea wrote: "Thank you Carol. I must have missed the Sydney Conference thread because I only started following this group in September. I haven't read Harry Smith's memoirs, maybe I'll give them a go.Susan, w..."
I struggle to limit myself to a mere top 5 Alathea! In no particular order:- Devil's Cub, These Old Shades, The Grand Sophy, Venetia, The Reluctant Widow, Frederica, An Infamous Army and Lady of Quality would all be close to the top!
Carol ♛ Type, Oh Queen! ♛ wrote: "Karlyne wrote: " Thank you ..."
Sigh! I've just discovered I can't narrow it down to 10! But I tried!"
Oh how fabulous! Thank you Carol!
Howard wrote: "For me, Heyer's best attribute is her sense of humor. So the books where she shows this the best are the books I like the best."Me, too, Howard! It's one of the reasons I get such a kick out of her mysteries - there's a lot of witty bantering in most of them.
I was not able to finish: The Black Moth, The Masqueraders, and Beauvallet.4. Penhallow
5. The Spanish Bride
Definitely ones to skip (if any must be skipped), Mike!
I'm struggling with The Conquerer. It has to be the worst GH book I've read so far.
Mike wrote: "I was not able to finish: The Black Moth, The Masqueraders, and Beauvallet.4. Penhallow
5. The Spanish Bride"
I'm in the serious minority, but I really like Penhallow. It's completely different from any other of her books, but I like the theme and the character studies. It's not light and witty, but it's got substance.
Karlyne wrote: "I'm in the serious minority, .."
I'm starting to feel like I'm in the minority with Beauvallet! It wasn't a 5★ read for me but I did like it!
Carol ♛ Type, Oh Queen! ♛ wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "I'm in the serious minority, .."
I'm starting to feel like I'm in the minority with Beauvallet! It wasn't a 5★ read for me but I did like it!"
Beauvallet has never come my way, oddly enough, so I've never got to weigh in on it!
I did like Beauvallet, too! Only, it was very different from most of her other romances, so maybe that is why it is not liked as much here?The main character was rather like a hero out of a swashbuckling Dumas saga!
Critterbee wrote: "I did like Beauvallet, too! Only, it was very different from most of her other romances, so maybe that is why it is not liked as much here?The main character was rather like a hero out of a swash..."
I always thought it was disliked because of it had a dull hero!
Critterbee wrote: "I did like Beauvallet, too! Only, it was very different from most of her other romances, so maybe that is why it is not liked as much here?The main character was rather like a hero out of a swash..."
Most of her characters aren't as bigoted as their contemporaries. That makes them more acceptable to a modern audience. But there are limits.
Howard wrote: "Critterbee wrote: "I did like Beauvallet, too! Only, it was very different from most of her other romances, so maybe that is why it is not liked as much here?The main character was rather like a ..."
If you take many of the heroes and heroines and put them straight into today's world, they might not be so very likable. But if you take those characters, and imagine them growing up today, they would be very different people.
Critterbee wrote: "Howard wrote: "Critterbee wrote: "I did like Beauvallet, too! Only, it was very different from most of her other romances, so maybe that is why it is not liked as much here?The main character was..."
One of my favorite occupations while at the grocery store is imagining other people as children...
Just watching movies from the '60s and '70s can be painful when racial and societal aspects are highlighted, let alone books written in the 1920s and 30s by GH or Agatha Christie. We like to think we are so progressive & evolved. But all it takes is a demagogue to win an election and people feel free to channel their inner supremacist. I try and remember that society had not moved as far when I am reading her books, that I should not apply modern thinking to the times.
So, was Beauvallet a bigot or racist or some such? Not having read it, I'm a bit confused! He was a pirate, I understand, and as such not expected to be a model of decorum, but was he worse than the average swashbuckler?
From what I recall from the little I read, all I really picked up was a strong yet vague anti-Spanish vibe among the pirate crew. Though the British and Spanish were in competition at the time. I forget the exact year the book is set, so I do not know if they were in open conflict at the time. Re: conversation about changing times - one of my favorite Christie books is And Then There Were None. I do not specifically recall anything offensive inside the book. No, the offensive comes from the book's original title (which was not, despite it currently being labeled as being the original title on Goodreads, Ten Little Indians - no the original title was actually - well, I'd rather link to Wikipedia).
Mike wrote: "From what I recall from the little I read, all I really picked up was a strong yet vague anti-Spanish vibe among the pirate crew. Though the British and Spanish were in competition at the time. I f..."Without looking it up, I know which word you're referring to, and I completely agree! I told my father-in-law a few years back (oh, my, it was actually decades) that I'd rather he use any other word in front of the kids than that one. Or in front of me, for that matter. We didn't often see eye-to-eye, but we really disagreed on language.
And, it's odd, but often that word isn't necessarily meant as an insult in those old books, but rather just a description - sometimes even a sort of back-hand compliment. Times they do change...
I've been reading The Sound and the Fury and, holy smoke, that N word is used practically every other page. It was written in the late 1920s and set in that time period as well, in the south, so it's part of the way things were, and I don't see how we can whitewash that, even when it makes for very uncomfortable reading. It helps that Faulkner clearly is showing how dysfunctional this Southern family was. Their black servants are better people than they.
Dilsey was the beating heart of the family, compassionate, strong, long-suffering. Many authors, Faulkner and Styron among them, saved their vitriol for the white characters in their books. The African-Americans often were the glue holding things together in these wildly dysfunctional families. The n-word was often just shorthand, so commonly used they would have been perplexed at our outrage. But it is jarring now to have it jump off the page, especially in an Agatha Christie novel in its original form. I often wonder what my biracial son-in-law makes of it, but he's been through so much crap--pulled over for driving while black, questioned as to how he comes to be driving a nice car, you name it--that these things may seem very small potatoes.
The bigotry against Spanish (including the King who had recently ruled them) was nothing compared to the bigotry against servants and "lower" classes.
Howard wrote: "The bigotry against Spanish (including the King who had recently ruled them) was nothing compared to the bigotry against servants and "lower" classes."Ah, hadn't gotten far enough in the book to actually encounter any servants or lower classes . . . I think. Been a while since I tried to read that book.
You know I must have completely missed all of that, I just remember it being boring.
Well, at least now I'm picturing Beauvallet as more of an Errol Flynn type rather than a wooden hero!
All I remember from the book is that the lead main male character had made a promise to return a woman (the lead female character) to Spain, and is going to personally do so. Despite the grave danger he would face if he went into Spain. And some random guy tells him he is stupid to do so. That's the sum total of what I remember about the book.
Mike wrote: "All I remember from the book is that the lead main male character had made a promise to return a woman (the lead female character) to Spain, and is going to personally do so. Despite the grave dang..."That's a great synopsis! Now I know I have to read it! (and it really does sound like Captain Blood with Errol Flynn).
I'll have to read that one!!! And Errol Flynn! Swoon!!!!!!!!!
Errol Flynn ... I might have to give this one a shot too.
And Olivia de Haviland as the proud heroine! What could be better?!
Mike wrote: "From what I recall from the little I read, all I really picked up was a strong yet vague anti-Spanish vibe among the pirate crew. Though the British and Spanish were in competition at the time. I f..."most English people were anti Spanish in the late Elizabethan era, we were at war with Spain, and moreover they were catholics, and England was becoming very strongly anti catholic at this time, especially since the pope had excommunicated Queen elizabeth and said it was all right to kill her, which did not help.
Mike wrote: "Howard wrote: "The bigotry against Spanish (including the King who had recently ruled them) was nothing compared to the bigotry against servants and "lower" classes."Ah, hadn't gotten far enough ..."
generally there was a more relaxed attitude towards servants and lower class people than in later eras. Servants for instance were generally regarded as junior members of the family. being a servant was not considered demeaning, even young people from upper class families might serve as pages for instance. A good book on this subject is Masters and Servants in Tudor England by Alison Sim.
Louise wrote: "Mike wrote: "Howard wrote: "The bigotry against Spanish (including the King who had recently ruled them) was nothing compared to the bigotry against servants and "lower" classes."Ah, hadn't gotte..."
I was just thinking how being a servant was often referred to as "obliging" in a lot of older books, as in, "Our neighbor Mrs. Smith obliges on Tuesdays and Thursdays." Interesting!
I realised I needed to revise my bottom 5, given that I quite liked Simon the Coldheart when I reread it.1 Helen
2 My Lord John
3 Why Shoot a Butler?
4 Barren Corn
5 Royal Escape
I've put Barren Corn. I've put it ahead of Royal Escape as I haven't read RE in a very long time.
I haven't read Royal Escape in decades. I didn't like it much, but one of these days maybe I'll give it another chance...
Carol,You have convinced me to avoid her contemporaries!
I haven't seen anything good about them.
Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Carol,You have convinced me to avoid her contemporaries!
I haven't seen anything good about them."
Ha! Barren Corn was quite a good book - just depressing & with very outdated values. Helen is a very bad book indeed.
Isn't Barren Corn the title with the message about staying in one's station?
Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Isn't Barren Corn the title with the message about staying in one's station?"Oh yes! Boy is it ever about knowing your place! But (view spoiler)
The lowest price I'm seeing for Barren Corn is $25.I think in her biography, the writer said that Georgette Heyer was an Edwardian.
I wonder what she would think of some of the marriages of QE2's children (Charles & Diana & Camilla; Wills & Kate etc.? They sure didn't marry other royals.
Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "I wonder what she would think of some of the marriages of QE2's children (Charles & Diana & Camilla; Wills & Kate etc.? They sure didn't marry other royals..."Royals aren't available. She certainly wouldn't expect them to marry into the Thai or Japanese royal families.
That certainly would have been interesting if they had married into the Japanese and Thai royal families!
Georgette Heyer Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
Barren Corn (other topics)Barren Corn (other topics)
The Sound and the Fury (other topics)
Ten Little Indians (other topics)
And Then There Were None (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Georgette Heyer (other topics)Georgette Heyer (other topics)
Susan, w..."
A Civil Contract and Cotillion are in my favorites, and so are Frederica and Reluctant Widow. You're both my best friends!