In the Company of Killers - DISCUSSION discussion
BEHIND THE HANDS THAT KILL
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BEHIND THE HANDS THE KILL Group Read & Discussion (5/7) **SPOILERS**
I cannot wait for Behind The Hands That Kill. It's going to be a rollercoaster. I don't think I'm ready.
I'm so freaking excited!!! OMG YES!!!
well... as soon as I get it I will not stop reading till I finish. I don't need food or sleep, just give me Victor :D
Victor in flip flops ohhhhhhhhhh my goooood I don't know why but my brain just can't envision it lol
Spring wrote: "Victor in flip flops ohhhhhhhhhh my goooood I don't know why but my brain just can't envision it lol"Me either. It's hard to imagine, plus I do not like guys in flip flops.
I just finished... and I'm speechless... and the glimpse into future books in the series messed up with my head... poor Victor I hope he will get Isabel back. I wanted to hug him and hit Isabel for leaving him like that, but with that ending it is more exciting to wait for next book "Spiders in the grove"... ah... so many surprises... and I want more!
Maddy wrote: "I'm dying to learn this Nora secret!"oh... it's not THAT bad than I thought... ;) the other are worst...
And wow, seeing the younger, freer side of Victor is a bit surprising. Also a bit heartbreaking considering what he's like now. Good thing I like the cold, ruthless Victor better :-)
Mclena wrote: "I just finished... and I'm speechless... and the glimpse into future books in the series messed up with my head... poor Victor I hope he will get Isabel back. I wanted to hug him and hit Isabel for..."holy moly you finished already??? Dang girl, you read fast!
Maddy wrote: "Mclena wrote: "I just finished... and I'm speechless... and the glimpse into future books in the series messed up with my head... poor Victor I hope he will get Isabel back. I wanted to hug him and..."I give up on sleeping... started at 9 pm and finished just a while ago - 4:25 am (I live in Ireland). Was starving for this book too long, so... I ate it ;) without break... just in one piece. really couldn't put it down.
Is Behind The Hands That Kill the last book in the series? (I really hope not)
Amelia wrote: "Is Behind The Hands That Kill the last book in the series? (I really hope not)"No, in the end of the book there is the glimpse into future books in the series... :)
Mclena wrote: "Maddy wrote: "Mclena wrote: "I just finished... and I'm speechless... and the glimpse into future books in the series messed up with my head... poor Victor I hope he will get Isabel back. I wanted ..."If I have didn't have to get up early tomorrow I'd likely stay up to read the whole book too. But it's 12am now and I'll have to pause on chapter 6 and finish on Monday! Considering how things are going with Victor right now, I'm wondering if all of the finest killers are going to break like this over their beloved. I think Fredrik was the first to get sloppy while Cassia was in his captivity. Is anyone going to be able to remain calm, cool and collected despite being in love? Hmmm...
Amelia wrote: "Is Behind The Hands That Kill the last book in the series? (I really hope not)"Nope, there will definitely be more books!
OMG I don't know how to feel about this side of Victor!! I'm so used to him being the untouchable leader...seeing him get sloppy and emotionally breaking like Fredrik did feels so strange
my gosh this is getting crazy!!! My poor baby Victor!! Why is this happening?? Why am I mad at Izabel?? oh god is she going to leave Victor for Niklas?! Because of the nature of who he is wtf? So much for loving him huh. I want to read chapter 14 so badly but I have to go buy stuff to cook for mother's day...tonight I'll skip sleep to finish
Well I don't think Izabel and Niklas would be good for each other after this book. Only Victor is her true love, and I really want them to stay together after next book.
Does anyone keep thinking after that book "When the hell would be the 7th book?"?
Mclena wrote: "Does anyone keep thinking after that book "When the hell would be the 7th book?"?"yes me!!!!!! artemis and victor.... OMG!! I am thinking that the boy is alive.
Gicarora wrote: yes me!!!!!! artemis and victor.... OMG!! I am thinking that the boy is alive."I think that also, but not the aborted one, but the one she didn't know she's having when Victor tried to kill her (that's my idea after the glimpse into future books)
Just finish reading. What surprised me most was that Victor went through a drastic character change. Gathering my thoughts now. Waiting for the next book will be killer.
Hi! I just joined the group (ashamed I didn't know about it before today!) Anyhow, I just finished and reading all your comments. I hate to speculate but Mclena, I think you're right, there is a son out there for Victor to meet. AND, I can't believe Naeva is going with Sarai. I really hope the next book comes soon!!
This is not my favorite book in this series, but it was definitely good. There is a lot to talk about. I agree that I do not like this side of Victor as much as his dark and in control. It is a little hard for me to see Victor having any feelings for anyone, besides his brother, before Izabel. I always thought that she was the only person who he loved, so that was quite shocking to me.Did anyone else think Victor was going to kill himself when Artemis was telling him to kill Izabel? For a while I really thought he was going to kill himself to hopefully save Izabel.
So we are finally introduced to The Gemini. Since they are on the website it appears they will eventually join Victor's Order. It will be interesting to see how that happens and what role they will play. So far I am not a big fan of either of them, but they do seem like they would make things exciting.
I am sad that everyone is temporarily splitting up. Hopefully Vonnegut's Order will end in the next book, so they can get back to business.
As much as I want the next book to be Fredrick's it appears it will be Izabel's and her mission in Mexico. I agree that it needs to be, so that story line can wrap up, but hopeful Fredrick will get the next one. Hopefully the next book will be released at the end of this year or sooner.
I've finally finished reading and added some discussion questions for you guys to consider!I really enjoyed this book. The new characters are all a fascinating bunch. I'm hoping that The Gemini will perhaps join Victor's Order somewhere down the line. He could use new solid members in his elite circle. I found Apollo to be hilarious! He reminds me of a cruder version of Niklas. I wonder how they'd react to each other.
Victor's change in personality was the most shocking part for me, even more so than the plot twists lol. I'm still trying to take it all in. I've always loved the controlled/mysterious/ruthless side of him so reading his POVs in this book was a bit bewildering. I felt like I was, in some ways, meeting a new character. I hope he can find a balance between this new sloppy lovesick side of him and the rational enigmatic character he once was. Which brings me to my next point, we're starting to see a trend of the greatest killers having emotional breakdowns and losing their finesse after falling in love. I'm starting to worry for the future of our favorite killers! It pained me to see the boss fall from his throne. I'm starting to wonder if he'll be able to lead Vonnegut's Order.
Izabel was my favorite in this book. She's starting to feel like a real part of Victor's Order instead of just the apprentice. She needs a new designation! After finishing the book I feel like she should be the queen or something. The way she put everyone in their place and how she has Apollo captured -- this is the Izabel I've always wanted to see. It's kind of like her and Victor switched personalities now that I think about it. I'm excited to see how she will do in Mexico with Naeva. I was surprised to learn of her connection to Izabel! How did she end up there and who is this Leo? Really looking forward to the next book. I think we're going back to Izabel for the Mexico mission.
The sneak peaks of the future books were such a treat!!! I know a lot of you girls are excited for Fredrik's and Seraphina's book. I am too!! Also SO SO curious about the Red Lotus. Can't wait to see what the future brings.
I finished reading this book yesterday but I needed a day to really put my thoughts into words. I can't believe I spent soooooooo many months waiting for this book and now that I've finished reading it, I don't know what to do with myself! I'll answer the discussion questions at some point tomorrow. So, I had a theory after reading TBW and after reading the sneak peak of The Red Lotus, I believe my theory might have been proven.Here is an excerpt from The Red Lotus:
He passes out from the pain, his head lolls to the side; blood from his missing teeth drips from the corner of his mouth onto the shiny metal table his body has been strapped to.
Now, here's an excerpt from TBW in which the serial killer is mentioned:
“The victims,” Ware says, “are missing all of their teeth, though they’re not pulled from the victim’s mouths, they’re cut out; the gums are always gaping and butchered, not indicative of a clean extraction.” He holds up his index finger to indicate that he has more. “And as if the missing teeth weren’t similar enough, all of the victims are found strapped to chairs—all different kinds of chairs, unlike your…well that chair you often use to do interrogations, but chairs nonetheless.”
Here is where my theory comes in! Am the only one who thinks that this might be Fredrik's serial killer!!
MISSING TEETH!!! AHHHH!!! We know only two people who have teeth fetishes: Fredrik and the serial killer!
In TBW it is mentioned that all of the victims were male. The person that is being tortured in The Red Lotus is none other than, a male.
One more thing.
The victim cries out as the blade splits his flesh, the hand that wields it, delicate and precise; the arm that moves the hand, frail and soft; the shoulder that connects the arm, dainty and flawless; the mind that controls it all, tranquil and unhinged.
The serial killer has to be a female!
So, Fredrik and the serial killer have many things in common. From their weird, yet oddly charming teeth fetish to their obsession with torturing people, I think these two might hit it off. I can hear the wedding bells!!!
Right, for me it was also strange to see Victor's "new face", but before this book he had a plan to fix himself, and it didn't work, and all his actions, behind Izabel's back terrified him, that he's going to lose her, and I think now, that she knows everything about him, he is going to be the same ruthless boss we always knew. It was just an "episode" which he didn't know how to deal with. But now with Izabel's strong personality, he would be just fine - it will not finish like with Fredrik cos they still have each other. I'm positive they will stay together.I liked Izabel's transformation, but I also think, that her self-confidence might kick her in the ass and whole trip to Mexico would be much harder than she's expecting.
Is there anyone who is thinking about Fredrik and Hestia as a couple??? It's just my idea about new lover for him, who could be more... dangerous? or exciting? than Seraphina.
And... I know that we just got new book, but... J.A Redmerski - when would be the next one??? Please... say it would be this year... :)
And who is babysitting Apollo right now??
And any idea who is going to betray Victor in the sneak peak? Niklas maybe?
Woah I think you're on to something @Anita! I can certainly see the individual being Fredrik's serial killer now that you put those passages side by side. Clever clever! :)However, I'm going to have to run the other direction at the last part of your post. I hope Fredrik doesn't end up with this Red Lotus. What about Seraphina?? Hello, the other half of his soul? His dark angel? The person he can't live without? Yeah, if he gets with this new psychobitch I'm going to have to pass.
Now for the discussion questions!
1. I find Osiris really interesting for some odd reason. His other half not so much...the part where Victor says Hestia would've given Seraphina a run for her money? Ummmmmmmmmmm, no. I put my kindle down and walked away. Didn't pick it up until the next day. Sorry but I'm firmly team Seraphina and no one will ever surpass her in my eyes. So right off the bad I'm just not a fan of Hestia at all. I'd like to see Nora kick her ass or something. Or better yet, have Seraphina come back and show her who's the real dark queen.
Sorry for the mini rant...I'm just a big Seraphina+Fredrik fan. Promises, Fredrik. I hope he doesn't diminish his legendary relationship with Seraphina.
2. Victor, Victor, Victor. I know @Maddy and I are likely the minority in this but, what happened??? What happened to the boss, the leader, the methodical killer? The cream of the crop killer? The killer who makes the finest killers look like child's play? Victor was reminiscent of Fredrik randomly crying because he was sloppy in TSATJ. I don't know...
3. Yeah I think Izabel can take on Artemis. Hell, right now, Izabel would probably wipe the floor with Artemis. Her Change was epic. I was surprised in the best way. Take that jealous weirdo DOWN Izabel!!
4. I'm more interested in Brant's connection to Naeva, there's something there we don't know and I trying to think of all the possibilities
5. Victor's team may be split now but I'm sure they will get back together soon. Or at least I hope so!
6. Most excited for THE DARKEST HALF!!!
Speaking of wedding bells, was anyone totally shocked when Victor proposed?
Just going to hop in and say yes I am in the minority too!!!! Victor + emotional + clinginess was just too weird for me!! But still the book was very good!
Still coming up with a response to the questions
I love the new characters! They're spicing things up for Victor and his Order which means more drama (yay!). I can't wait to see how Nora and Hestia will get along considering they're both so alpha and they have to work together hahaha! Who will emerge as the ultimate alpha female? I also love Niklas and Nora's relationship. I know they have no feelings for each other but have you noticed how often they agree with each other? It's kind of cute. And how Niklas butts in when Nora is checking out Osiris. If not a romantic relationship, I'd really love to see them as close friends! Their banter is my favorite among the assassins in the order! Victor's character change was really weird for me I don't know but he was too emotional and clingy for me. That's my only reservation about the book though I LOVED everything else!! OMG when Artemis was revealed to be still alive and then Izabel getting her throat slit and then her change. Everything was so crazy!! I loved it. I can SO imagine the TV show for this, every time I read I basically see everything in my head. I hope we get a lot of jealous Izabel scene and basically her kicking Artemis' butt ;)
I think Naeva is super adorable for some reason lol I really want to see her relationship develop with her brothers!! Can you imagine a protective Niklas and Victor or their little sister? *swoon* and LOL when they were young I can't believe Niklas slapped her in the face with a dead snake because he didn't know how to show his love. Niklas is so loveable. I do hope that he gets over Izabel and find happiness in another woman. He deserves it.
You know who else derserves love? FREDRIK!! WITH SERAPHINA!! That snippet of The Dark Half left me gasping for air like OMG after all this time we've spent talking about Seraphina and wishing and hoping for more of her...we're finally getting it girls! It's time for some shots!
Super sad to see Victor's Order scatter likes leaves in the wind but once they get a target on the real Vonnegut, it's end game! I can't wait for them to all be together like one big sicko family!
I just finished and I'm not even ashamed I cried that it was over, I cried bcuz I read it in a day....I usually drag books for 3 days or a week not this series EVER and then i immediately regret it bcuz I want more....I'm a needy bitch I need more damn it LOL 
I need a moment to gather my thoughts...so many questions but that means more of the series I'm not ready to say goodbye to them.
Is no one going to mention the sneak peak which might suggest Victor and Arthemis might has a kid together? Also I don't know how I feel about izabel and the Mexico mission. I mean getting violated and raped and all that jazz and doing it voluntarily.. Poor victor. I really do hope she finds her child.
Shazy wrote: "Is no one going to mention the sneak peak which might suggest Victor and Arthemis might has a kid together? Also I don't know how I feel about izabel and the Mexico mission. I mean getting violated..."We're too pumped for the Seraphina Fredrik sneak peak so we might have overlooked that :) But now that you mention it, oh man, the kid must be what, 15ish now? I can't remember off the top of my head how long ago Victor and Artemis were together. Will this throw a crank in Victor and Izabel's relationship?? I feel like the poor kid might hate Victor (if there is actually a kid), and then there's also Izabel's child...wooh things are getting cray-zy. How does our lovely author keep up with all this info??
@Maddy make us a cheat sheet or something lol!!
Amélie wrote: "Woah I think you're on to something @Anita! I can certainly see the individual being Fredrik's serial killer now that you put those passages side by side. Clever clever! :)However, I'm going to h..."
Omg girl I agree with every single fcking thing haha. Except for Izabel's!
1. I REALLY FREAKING WANNA THROW MY PHONE WHEN THEY SAID THAT. I was like protecting my baby 'cause she's gone and she can't kill them herself. :'(
The sad thing is, I think Fredrik will have a new heroine as much as I hate to admit it. Victor said Fredrik is the type who can't live without love. And I want to say that Seraphina might be alive but JA already used up her supposed-to-be-dead-but-alive card and bitch-I'm-back card. I see the psychopath or Hestia for him. (BUT I WOULD NEVER SUPPORT IT)
2. Kinda put-off with this Victor, unexpected and really out of character. Also ANYONE NOTICED how Fredrik is LIGHTER here than the previous book? He was supposed to be darkness personified not a care in the world but not that much here
The only time I smiled in this book is when Victor freaking proposed hahaha.
oh... come on... was that really bad, that Victor had a break down? For me even if it was strange to see him in this stage, it was also somehow... hopeful, that monsters... trained killers and other freaks can find love and other emotions... Victor didn't know love, only indifference, cruelty... when someone in his position is starting to have any feelings, how he supposed to behave? He didn't know what to do... He was trained to be ruthless, not soft, so when his feelings for Izabel overload him, he just break... I really loved him here.And I agree with @Anita about Red Lotus - I had same theory... :)
And about Seraphina - well... for me she is dead - Fredrick killed her, so there is no chance for her to be alive - which is sad, but... give J.A Redmerski some credit. She definitely has some great ideas so I believe there will be someone special for Fredrick.
Mclena wrote: "oh... come on... was that really bad, that Victor had a break down? For me even if it was strange to see him in this stage, it was also somehow... hopeful, that monsters... trained killers and othe..."I totally see your point! But for me, if it was just a break down I wouldn't have said anything because that's an isolated event and yeah totally he's still human after all! But what I was talking about was Victor's 180 character change...it's completely different from how he was portrayed in the first 5 books. The methodical pragmatic leader who fell in love with Izabel but was still able to have that mysterious controlled untouchable aura to everyone else. We did see Victor develop feelings and fall in love in the first five books but it was done in a way that stayed true to his character. Wasn't Jessica the one that said this is a crime series above all, not romance? I dunno, maybe if the change was more gradual it would be easier to take in. Still love Victor though!!! One book will not change my feelings for him :))
Also anyone think that Seraphina can totally be alive now BECAUSE of the Artemis twist?? Like she got he throat slit and was thought to be dead but NOPE SHE'S BACK!!!!!! AHHHH I'M SO EXCITED GIRLS! I feel it in my bones! Seraphina is out there somewhere and I can't wait for the Darkest Half!!
Dominus~ wrote: "Amélie wrote: "Woah I think you're on to something @Anita! I can certainly see the individual being Fredrik's serial killer now that you put those passages side by side. Clever clever! :)However,..."
Right!? Seraphina is the greatest and Fredrik's only soulmate so why even bother with these pale versions for the true dark queen? And yeah Fredrik can't live without love, foreshadowing much?? He can't live without Seraphina so he's going to die! Which is much preferable to him falling in love with that serial killer or Hestia because come on. Though the best end game would be for Seraphina to actually be alive.
This explanation is for the couple girls on here that really want Fredrik to end up with someone else:
If when Izabel got her throat slit and she actually died, would you keep pushing for Victor to fall in love with someone else, like Nora or another girl who comes along helpless then grows to be a killer?
No. Most of you wouldn't even continue reading the series if Victor gets with another girl.
Do you see my point here? You girls might not understand the Seraphina fans because you never particularly cared for her or perhaps didn't even like her? For the majority that does love her, it's like Izabel dying and you guys cheer for him to get with someone new.
No lol.
But wait, 'Seraphina wasn't good for Fredrik!', you say. Guess again. Without Seraphina, your Fredrik wouldn't even be Fredrik. He'd be nothing. Just a rando murderer without feeling. Seraphina gave him a meaning for life, he learned happiness and excitement and love from her.
"It wasn’t until I met Seraphina eight years ago that I learned to control it, that I became a much different man from the one who hunted shit stains like Dante Furlong, tortured and murdered them every other night…I was like a drug addict, always looking for a fix but never really satisfied enough to stop. Never satisfied at all, because I only wanted to do it more and more.
Seraphina helped me control the perpetual urges. She showed me how to release the darkness within me with quieter, cleaner methods so that I didn’t leave a trail of bodies and evidence behind. But the biggest impact that Seraphina had on my life was making me feel like I had one. Because before her, I was just a speck of dust floating around in oblivion. I didn’t know the meaning of happiness, or understand the thrill of pleasure or the hunger for excitement. I was just a shell of a man who knew only darkness and death, who only felt the emotions of anger, and hatred, and rage and vengeance.
But Seraphina, she was my dark angel, who came into my life and showed me that there was so much more to living than I ever understood."
Amélie wrote: "Right!? Seraphina is the greatest and Fredrik's only soulmate so why even bother with these pale versions for the true dark queen? And yeah Fredrik ..."*slow clap*
*standing ovation*
damn, Amele, keep slaying girl, you got it
I'm usually just a lurker on here but I had to say something because props to you for keeping it 100%
It looks like I've missed a lot since yesterday! I just want to remind you guys to please try to stay on topic in this Behind The Hands That Kill discussion thread. I know you're very passionate about Seraphina and some of you not at all but let's focus on the major characters in this book here. You are more than welcome to discuss Seraphina's fate/character/relationship with Fredrik/etc. I've made a character discussion folder and started a thread for Seraphina here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Please feel free to start a discussion thread for your favorite killer in the Character Discussion folder as well!
Alessia wrote: "Shazy wrote: "Is no one going to mention the sneak peak which might suggest Victor and Arthemis might has a kid together? Also I don't know how I feel about izabel and the Mexico mission. I mean ge..."Jessica has a general character profile for the main killers on the website but I can try to add more stuff and include minor characters as well. I'll probably put it under the Character Discussion folder. It'll take me awhile though because I have to go through and reread the books for specific details.
Marceline wrote: "Amélie wrote: "Right!? Seraphina is the greatest and Fredrik's only soulmate so why even bother with these pale versions for the true dark queen? And yeah Fredrik ..."*slow clap*
*standing ovati..."
My name is Amélie not Amele but thank you
Maddy wrote: "It looks like I've missed a lot since yesterday! I just want to remind you guys to please try to stay on topic in this Behind The Hands That Kill discussion thread. I know you're very passionate ab..."Sorry, Maddy. I was just responding to some of the girls on here but I'll take my Seraphina stuff to the new thread
Amélie wrote: "Maddy wrote: "It looks like I've missed a lot since yesterday! I just want to remind you guys to please try to stay on topic in this Behind The Hands That Kill discussion thread. I know you're very..."My post wasn't directed at you specifically! I just meant it in general, I know you guys like discussing Seraphina so I thought it'd be appropriate to make a thread dedicated to her so we could stay on topic in other discussion threads like this one.
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Hey everyone!
Here's the group read and discussion thread as promised. We'll be starting when Behind the Hands That Kill releases -- though you can join in whenever you start reading! I will post links here and on the updates thread when the book is live on Amazon. As per usual, I will also add discussion questions when I finish reading and you all are free to contribute as well (and I hope you do!).
After you've finished the book, please take a moment to support Jessica by leaving a review on Amazon! Long or short doesn't matter -- something as simple as "I enjoyed the book" works just fine.
http://amzn.to/1QV967X
If you've left a review, enter for the chance to win a paperback copy of BEHIND THE HANDS THAT KILL here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
-----------WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD------------
Discussion Questions
- What do you think about the new (temporary) allies; Osiris and Hestia, and new enemies, Apollo and Artemis?
- Victor goes through quite the character change/growth/regression (however you interpreted it) in this book. What do you think about this new Victor? Did he surprise you? Do you think his new character developments will help him or hurt him in the future, aiming to be the leader of The Order?
- Is it possible to be a lethal and skilled assassin without having emotional breakdowns and losing finesse after falling in love?
- Victor has a history of killing (or at least, attempting to kill) women that made him feel, however, he was unable to kill Izabel because he loved her too much. Was the depth of his feelings surprising to you? Was Nora wrong saying that Victor can’t live with love?
- Will this new Victor be able to find a balance between controlled rational killer and emotional sloppy lover to take Vonnegut down and become The Order’s new leader?
- What do you think about Izabel’s character growth? Will she be able to take on Artemis by herself? Will she be able to smoke out the real Vonnegut on the Mexico mission?
- Were you surprised by Naeva’s appearance? How do you think her connection with Izabel will play out in the Mexico mission?
- How will Victor’s Order fare now that they’re all scattered and Victor is perceived as a man broken down by his demons; a fallen leader?
- Given the previews of future books, what are you excited for most?