In the Company of Killers - DISCUSSION discussion
BEHIND THE HANDS THAT KILL
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BEHIND THE HANDS THE KILL Group Read & Discussion (5/7) **SPOILERS**
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Mclena wrote: "Does anyone keep thinking after that book "When the hell would be the 7th book?"?"probably Mexico
Alessia wrote: "I love the new characters! They're spicing things up for Victor and his Order which means more drama (yay!). I can't wait to see how Nora and Hestia will get along considering they're both so alpha..."I agree!! Naeva and her big brothers would be so cute
Lillian wrote: "Alessia wrote: "I love the new characters! They're spicing things up for Victor and his Order which means more drama (yay!). I can't wait to see how Nora and Hestia will get along considering they'..."Yes!! Can you imagine Niklas grudgingly like babying her when they go out on missions eeeeee
I am positively dying for The Darkest Half!
I think you dont agree with me girls ,but I have to admit that I want Fredrik with the Red Lotus (that in my head is the waitress) I cant recall her name ..... waaaitttt i got it Emily ... I believe it with all my heart
Amélie wrote: "Dominus~ wrote: "Amélie wrote: "Woah I think you're on to something @Anita! I can certainly see the individual being Fredrik's serial killer now that you put those passages side by side. Clever cle..."That's different though, Izabel is the main character of the series while Seraphina was more of a side character.
Personally I wouldn't mind if Victor and Izabel don't end up together, although it's pretty obvious that they will which is a shame. I prefer Niklas and Izabel, their dynamic is much more compelling to me and I want to see that explored a bit more. Victor is just not as interesting, likeable and complex as characters like Niklas and Fredrick in my opinion.
Alessia wrote: "Mclena wrote: "oh... come on... was that really bad, that Victor had a break down? For me even if it was strange to see him in this stage, it was also somehow... hopeful, that monsters... trained k..."Well I still see it my way, that it's not 180 character change. Victor was emotionless after Artemis for 15 years - and that we saw in the first 5 books and his falling in love with Izabel was somehow first for him... new... much stronger... and also here in this book Victor said:
...after I fell in love with you, I thought maybe I could change. that part of me that loves you wanted to...adjust certain things about my personality, to better suit you as your...lover. (...) I love you, but I can never change who I am for you and I was a fool to ever consider it. Changing is impossible. I knew that all along. I tried to find ways around it, but in doing so I got myself in tight situations. (...) If i was myself, Kessler never would have made it out of that auditorium alive that night we apprehended her. but because of my feelings for you, I played her game to save the life of your mother. I changed who I am, how I work - for you. And as long as you're alive, as long as I'm in love with you - as long as you are mine - I'll struggle with who I've become, and who I am (...) I am not used to caring for someone, Izabel. I am not used to caring at all.
so... here is all his struggle, all his feelings in previous books were well hide. If he would listen to his heart, we would see his love for Izabel and other feelings to gradually "change" him, but because he was fighting with them, here in this book we saw his break down, how overwhelmed he was with love - especially when Izabel's life was in danger. He couldn't think straight.... I just totally see what Jessica wanted to show, and I believe, that we will see our old Victor in next books:
"I must find a balance in this change. I am still the same man I was yesterday - that will never change - but I must now also allow the part of me that Izabel created, to live equally alongside him.
This situation with Apollo and Artemis was a surprise for him, and that trapped him. It wasn't mission, he couldn't prepare himself to fight feelings, he just let his love for Izabel rule... and that saved both of them. That's how I see it.
Amélie wrote: "Dominus~ wrote: "Amélie wrote: "Woah I think you're on to something @Anita! I can certainly see the individual being Fredrik's serial killer now that you put those passages side by side. Clever cle..."
I get what you mean, and understand you. I didn't bond with Seraphina. She was here only in one book, and I didn't treat her as a one of the main characters. If she was present here from the beginning then that would be a different story. But she showed up in third book, and was gone in the same. I just closed that chapter and moved on. I know you feel differently but, I wouldn't treat Izabel and Seraphina on the same level. If Nora would die in next book - I will not cry for her, but Nora is here more important, than Seraphina (for plot sake). Seraphina is only involved with Fredrik, not with the whole company of killers.
But still... it's your love for her, and I will not fight it. It's just my point of view, and it's my last post about Seraphina (to respect @Maddy)
Lillian wrote: "Mclena wrote: "Does anyone keep thinking after that book "When the hell would be the 7th book?"?"
probably Mexico"
I mean WHEN not where ;) I wish next book would be this year.
Dessiret wrote: "I think you dont agree with me girls ,but I have to admit that I want Fredrik with the Red Lotus (that in my head is the waitress) I cant recall her name ..... waaaitttt i got it Emily ... I believ..."
That's interesting idea... and I really like it :)
And... I have strange feelings in my heart about Nora-Niklas "relationship"... from hate-indifference to love??? If Nora could feel anything, I see it only with him... well... it might change during mission with Osiris... who knows??? ;)
Dina wrote: "Amélie wrote: "Dominus~ wrote: "Amélie wrote: "Woah I think you're on to something @Anita! I can certainly see the individual being Fredrik's serial killer now that you put those passages side by s..."Please bring your response about Seraphina and Izabel to the Seraphina thread, I'd love to give you a full response over there so this thread stays on topic like @Maddy asked for. :)
Mclena wrote: "Alessia wrote: "Mclena wrote: "oh... come on... was that really bad, that Victor had a break down? For me even if it was strange to see him in this stage, it was also somehow... hopeful, that monst..."We're two different people so of course we'll have two different perceptions of Victor's character change! I wasn't trying to change your view, that's why I said, "I totally see your point" and added "For me," before my explanation.
Your "Well I still see it my way" prelude indicates to me that you think I was trying to sway your opinion or something. I wasn't. Are you new to the group? Our colorful variety of members often have differing and even conflicting view points, that's the beauty of reading! Please don't feel defensive, we all love to share ours opinions on here, that's why it's a discussion group :)))
Alessia wrote: "Mclena wrote: "Alessia wrote: "Mclena wrote: "oh... come on... was that really bad, that Victor had a break down? For me even if it was strange to see him in this stage, it was also somehow... hope..."No no no.... I was mostly trying to explain "my point of view" to myself :P I have no one to speak to about books, so I was trying to find what I was feeling :P compare your opinion with my feelings and see how it work, that's all. "BTHTK" was for me sooooo emotional, and crazy that I still struggle with it, and everyday I have new ideas... sorry if you felt that I'm trying to change your perception - it wasn't my intention. :))
If you've left a review on Amazon, enter for the chance to win a paperback copy of BEHIND THE HANDS THAT KILL here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
At last I've finished! I'm been so terribly busy so I've only been getting a couple chapters in a day. I think this is the first time it's taken me 4 days to read a book in this series. I usually finish in 1-2 days. I'm off today so thank goodness for that. I really liked this addition to the series! The flashbacks were interesting and Artemis in some ways, really reminds me of Izabel. Oddly enough, I can't wait to see more of her to see how things will play out in terms of Izabel and Victor. The Gemini is finally revealed! I guess we were all wrong huh? So many secrets unveiled this book that blew me away, so many things to look forward too in the future. I really can't wait to see what the next book will bring for Victor's Order.
- What do you think about the new (temporary) allies; Osiris and Hestia, and new enemies, Apollo and Artemis?
Apollo and Artemis are such intriguing characters! I wonder who will watch for Apollo while Izabel is in Mexico? Will she run into Artemis there or will Artemis go to save her brother? Osiris and Hestia I feel like I need more to decide how I feel about them, but I loved the scene where Nora and Hestia stand off! I think Nora would be the victor in that fight, maybe we'll get to see it in the future?
Also does anyone think that Nora and Niklas are incredibly cute when they're around each other? I mean their behavior and conversations always leave me smiling so hard. Niklas tries to act all tough and indifferent to Nora on the outside but he's secretly agreeing to everything she says on the inside. Hey their relationship but only be physical now but... ;) I would squeal the day I get to see Niklas territorial of Nora because he has feelings for her. Then of course, Nora being Nora would quip something snarky back, and then Niklas being Niklas would not take that shit. Then they argue some and have hot sex. Their physical chemistry is smoking hot! :D
- Victor goes through quite the character change/growth/regression (however you interpreted it) in this book. What do you think about this new Victor? Did he surprise you? Do you think his new character developments will help him or hurt him in the future, aiming to be the leader of The Order?
I'm lukewarm on this matter. On one hand I'm thrilled that he showed more feelings and his love for Izabel is completely apparent, but on the other hand I feel like it was over-done. Like it didn't quite fit his character or the character we know him as. This development might hurt him in the future but Victor is Victor. Go Victor!!
- Is it possible to be a lethal and skilled assassin without having emotional breakdowns and losing finesse after falling in love?
It doesn't look like so in this series lol. Have any of you guys read the Blood Mafia Chronicles? If you love the past ruthless intelligent enigmatic Victor you're going to love Dante in Bound by Duty. Now that's a Boss that falls in love and retains his character!
- Victor has a history of killing (or at least, attempting to kill) women that made him feel, however, he was unable to kill Izabel because he loved her too much. Was the depth of his feelings surprising to you? Was Nora wrong saying that Victor can’t live with love?
Yeah, Nora is wrong (gasp). It seems to me like Victor can't live withOUT Izabel. I loved the stars quote. Victor is such a romantic on the inside :)
- Will this new Victor be able to find a balance between controlled rational killer and emotional sloppy lover to take Vonnegut down and become The Order’s new leader?
I have this theory that because he's this new Victor 2.0, he's not going to be able to...BUT, Izabel will! I think Izabel will be the one that takes down Vonnegut and Victor will assume leadership of the Order.
- What do you think about Izabel’s character growth? Will she be able to take on Artemis by herself? Will she be able to smoke out the real Vonnegut on the Mexico mission?
A million percent loved Izabel's change! I'm so proud of her. She's finally growing into a respectable killer. I love it so much. I wholeheartedly believe in her abilities and I think she will indeed be able to smoke Vonnegut out.
- Were you surprised by Naeva’s appearance? How do you think her connection with Izabel will play out in the Mexico mission?
No I predicted that she would show up in the book beforehand! I just would've never saw it coming that she'd be the one to save Victor and Izabel. I was however shocked to find out she was a sex slave too. How did that happen? She seems to be very much in love with this Leo. I'm curious to meet him.
- How will Victor’s Order fare now that they’re all scattered and Victor is perceived as a man broken down by his demons; a fallen leader?
It's only temporary. Victor will rise again, even greater than before, and reclaim his throne. This time, with a competent queen by his side. Victor and Izabel will be the ultimate reigning assassin power couple in the underworld of crime. I can see it now.
- Given the previews of future books, what are you excited for most?
The Darkest Half, hands down! I will take ANY bit of Seraphina and Fredrik that I can get.
Just finished reading and as expected I loved it. The black wolf is still my favourite in the series but it's still pretty good. I loved the fantastic character development and that ending!! I don't know how I'm going to survive until the next book comes out-What do you think about Izabel’s character growth? Will she be able to take on Artemis by herself? Will she be able to smoke out the real Vonnegut on the Mexico mission?
My favourite aspect about this book was definitely Izabel's character development. She's just so independent, brave and strong and I loved seeing her grow over the series, she's become one of my favourite heroines. I like that she's becoming more competent as well but I do hope she doesn't completely lose her humanity. What makes her character so unique and complex is that while she has the means to be ruthless she can also be compassionate which makes her more compelling and interesting to me.
Artemis doesn't stand a chance against Izabel, not without using sneaky tactics i.e kidnapping and using her brother to do the dirty work. As for taking out Vonnegut I definitely think she's going to have a hand in it but I don't think she's going to do it alone. I'm really hoping for another undercover mission/heist story like the last book.
- What do you think about the new (temporary) allies; Osiris and Hestia, and new enemies, Apollo and Artemis?
The new characters where a wonderful edition to the series, Apollo in particular was such an intriguing and entertaining character! And I think it might be Niklas that will keep an eye on him, I'm assuming anyway since everybody else is busy plus I want to see those two interact I feel like that would be hilarious.
I have mixed feelings about Artemis, even though she's crazy I can't help but feel bad for her a little bit, but then again the complexity of the characters is what makes this series so amazing.
Osaris and Hestia are also quite fascinating and I'd like to learn more about them. The Stone family are a dysfunctional bunch so it's definitely going to be interesting to see what happens with them next. I'm really curious about the Gemini thing as well.
Victor goes through quite the character change/growth/regression (however you interpreted it) in this book. What do you think about this new Victor? Did he surprise you? Do you think his new character developments will help him or hurt him in the future, aiming to be the leader of The
I wouldn't say that Victor is regressing since he's developing as a character. I actually liked that Victor showed more emotion. He used to be too one dimensional and not as interesting as the other characters but I'm glad to see more depth. It's great to see how the characters are growing and dealing with their internal turmoil. He's still not my favourite character but at least he's becoming more interesting.
- Is it possible to be a lethal and skilled assassin without having emotional breakdowns and losing finesse after falling in love?
Possibly. However, I do feel like it adds more tension and conflict to the story.Besides I don't like reading about boring and simplistic characters, I'd like to see more flaws, depth and complexity. Not saying that characters should do a complete 180 when they find love but I like seeing them go through some change and growth and still be able to maintain some of their persona. It makes them more multidimensional. Characters that remain the same and characters that are either to perfect with no flaws or to dark with no hidden depth, are boring and unrealistic(unless it's supposed to be a psychopath)
- Were you surprised by Naeva’s appearance? How do you think her connection with Izabel will play out in the Mexico mission?
I really liked Naeva and can't wait to read more about her! Would be interesting to see how her relationship with her brothers will develop and what role she will play in the mission. It's also refreshing to see a positive female friendship for once.
- How will Victor’s Order fare now that they’re all scattered and Victor is perceived as a man broken down by his demons; a fallen leader?
It seems like the Vonnegut story arc will be wrapped up in the next book or maybe in the next two books but either way I'm really excited to see how it will all unfold and how they'll manage to pull it off. It's probably going to be epic.
- Given the previews of future books, what are you excited for most?
I'm super excited for the next book and "a feast of the devils" that scene with Artemis and Victor where it was hinted that their son is still alive...I was not expecting that. That was the biggest plot twist for me and I can't wait to see how that's going to play out!
I also want more Niklas and Fredrick, I particularly want to read more about Fredrick's back story. Regarding red lotus/the serial killer theory I don't think that's going to be the new love interest, I actually think it might be someone from his past maybe. I think Fredrick is either going to end up with Nora (Hopefully not, she's a great character but I'm not too excited about her and Fredrick) Or he'll probably just end up with someone new but either way I'm really excited for his story next to Niklas he's my second favourite male character.
On a side note I have read the blood Mafia chronicles but it's too romantic and tame and there's not enough action. I just haven't been able to find any other amazing crime fiction series like "in the company of killers" and the godfather. Does anyone have any recommendations?
Dina wrote: "Just finished reading and as expected I loved it. The black wolf is still my favourite in the series but it's still pretty good. I loved the fantastic character development and that ending!! I don'..."Completely agree on your positive female relationship point! Excited to see how Naeva and Izabel's friendship will blossom.
If you want action and violence and truly ruthless characters befitting the genre, read the Ruthless People series by J.J. McAvoy. Melody and Liam make Nora + Victor + Seraphina + Hestia + Fredrik seem like cute puppies. I think Melody skins someone alive in one of the books? She is balls to the walls psychobitch in the best kind of way. And Liam's the only one that can keep up with her. The sex is off the charts hot if you like that! Sigh. I do love myself a cold-blooded, ruthless, rulers of the crime world power couple.
However, if you like your killers/assassins/anti-hero(ines) softer with more humanity like the characters in ITCOK and the Blood Mafia Chronicles, you might want to avoid Ruthless People. One of the taglines is "Villains by choice." They are definitely ruthless and their character development is consistent with their fundamental character framework.
Spring wrote: "At last I've finished! I'm been so terribly busy so I've only been getting a couple chapters in a day. I think this is the first time it's taken me 4 days to read a book in this series. I usually f..."Yes to Nora and Niklas!! I smiled and inwardly aww'd during the scene where Niklas was agreeing to everything Nora said but hid it. They would have the best love-hate relationship in the world.
I'm excited to see how their friendship will continue to develop too. Niklas and Izabel are my ultimate otp in the series, I don't know about Nora and Niklas as a couple but I must say their banter is quite fun.
Yeah I've already read ruthless people and I hated it. Not only did the author butcher the Italian words/phrases but there are so many inaccuracies regarding the Italian Mafia and the Italian culture in general it's unbelievable. Frankly I don't know how she got away with it she clearly didn't bother doing any research beyond checking Wikipedia. There's nothing remarkable about the hero either, he was just so stereotypical and the heroine was an annoying psychopath with no redeeming qualities. It's not that I don't like reading about anti heroes, villains and psychopaths, (Case in point Fredrick and Nora) but these characters lacked any depth they where just flat and they weren't even interesting villains.
It seems like there just aren't any other series like this in the genre. The closest I can think of is the blood for blood trilogy but that's YA so it's a bit tame.
Dina wrote: "I'm excited to see how their friendship will continue to develop too. Niklas and Izabel are my ultimate otp in the series, I don't know about Nora and Niklas as a couple but I must say their bant..."
I read fiction for entertainment, not for language and criminal activity accuracy. Not sure what she "got away with" because I read through the book and found myself entertained just fine. I found Melody to be a delight! She's a villain - not intended to have redeeming qualities. I didn't think the characters were flat at all, but of course, that's my personal experience with the book. Liam and Melody were thrilling and deliciously violent.
It must be tough being such a picky reader. Sorry you couldn't enjoy Ruthless People or the Blood Mafia Chronicles. You should try asking for recommendations elsewhere. Maybe you'll find something that suits your preference better.
Dina wrote: "I'm excited to see how their friendship will continue to develop too. Niklas and Izabel are my ultimate otp in the series, I don't know about Nora and Niklas as a couple but I must say their bant..."
Welcome to the underworld series by Con Template is pretty good
Dina wrote: "I'm excited to see how their friendship will continue to develop too. Niklas and Izabel are my ultimate otp in the series, I don't know about Nora and Niklas as a couple but I must say their bant..."
I kind of agree, it had some entertaining moments but that was the cheesiest Mafia story I have read.
Btw anyone wonder why Izabel is more wanted than Victor and the rest of the Order? I reckon Vonnegut is aware of who she is and that she has seen him before or maybe she's related or connected to someone important? The possibilities are endless and those snippet at the end are making me more excited! Cannot wait for the release of the next instalment!
Spring wrote: "Dina wrote: "I'm excited to see how their friendship will continue to develop too. Niklas and Izabel are my ultimate otp in the series, I don't know about Nora and Niklas as a couple but I must s..."
I just finished Ruthless People and holy wow the anti-heroine is SO BLOODTHIRSTY!!! I loved it! I don't think I've ever read a protagonist like her ever, she's more brutal than most villains I read in mafia and crime books lol thanks for reccing it Spring
Sarah wrote: "Dina wrote: "I'm excited to see how their friendship will continue to develop too. Niklas and Izabel are my ultimate otp in the series, I don't know about Nora and Niklas as a couple but I must s..."
Yes!!! I have a feeling Izabel has def seen him before when she was a slave so he needs to wipe her out because she knows his identity she just hasn't made the connection that he's Vonnegut yet
Alessia wrote: "Spring wrote: "Dina wrote: "I'm excited to see how their friendship will continue to develop too. Niklas and Izabel are my ultimate otp in the series, I don't know about Nora and Niklas as a coup..."
OKAY OKAY I JUST HAD Ruthless People and I'm reading something now but I'll read it after. Now you got me more excited oooohhhh and question!!!!!!! Is she better than Nora and Seraphina? :O (I feel like this is so out of the thread haha so sorry)
Dominus~ wrote: "Alessia wrote: "Spring wrote: "Dina wrote: "I'm excited to see how their friendship will continue to develop too. Niklas and Izabel are my ultimate otp in the series, I don't know about Nora and ..."
Well I'm totally biased bc Sera is my favorite and this series is above all others so no I would not say she's better than Nora and Seraphina :))
Alessia wrote: "Dominus~ wrote: "Alessia wrote: "Spring wrote: "Dina wrote: "I'm excited to see how their friendship will continue to develop too. Niklas and Izabel are my ultimate otp in the series, I don't kno..."
Agree this series is the best I love Seraphina and Nora specially Nora she's so badass! The main character from ruthless people is too ott for my taste and falls into the "moustache-twirling cartoon villain trope". That being said it's still somewhat entertaining but no where near as epic as ITCOK series imo
Alessia wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Dina wrote: "I'm excited to see how their friendship will continue to develop too. Niklas and Izabel are my ultimate otp in the series, I don't know about Nora and Niklas as a coupl..."
That's what I'm thinking too! Another crazy plot twist is the possibility that Victor's kid is still alive and I have a feeling that the serial killer is a character we've already meet. It's going to be so exciting to see what happens next with everything!
I'll admit Victor's personality was a bit odd in this book but don't worry guys I don't think he'll stay this way! Think of it as a cold? He was in a really tough situation and he lost his cool for a book, that;s all. I'm sure our beloved Victor will be back and dandy in the next book!
- Is it possible to be a lethal and skilled assassin without having emotional breakdowns and losing finesse after falling in love?
Ha ha maybe not for Victor and Fredrik but hopefully yeah for future characters that join Victor's order. It would be nice to have a change in pace! I think Nora could fall in love and still remain the same old badass Nora. Probably some of the new characters too like Hestia and Osiris.
It did not surprise me how much Victor loves Izabel, I always knew he loved her deeply, the type of person he is just means he tends to keep it in more ;) Nora is wrong! Victor CAN and WILL live with love, with Izabel!
I don't really know the extent of Artemisis skills yet so I don't know if Izabel can take her on right now. But still I put my money on Izzy! If not now then later as she gets more experience
Naeva's appearance was so surpsing! Almost forgot about her actually. Her and Izabel in Mexico will be exciting to read!
Victor's order will be juuuuuuuust fine
I'm most excited for the Seraphina book!