Science Fiction Microstory Contest discussion
*MAY 2016 MICRO STORY CONTEST - COMMENTS ONLY
message 151:
by
Andy
(new)
May 18, 2016 04:22AM
Story posted - a contemporary future with topicality and trope-icality, I hope.
reply
|
flag
Good one Andy. Political relevance for today, chilling robotic implications for the future...No betting on primaries here. I had to write in a name on my primary ballot in Washington, which I'm sure will disqualify it. But I could not in good conscience just toss it in the trash. I put my US flag stamp upside down to mail it in.
Fortunately I don't have to make that decision, Justin ... just an existential one on June 23rd about whether I'm European or not.The anger hasn't really taken off here - we're more swimming in oceans of puzzlement and indecision :-)
Now I've written mine, I can get down to catching up on the others.
Not sure which decision is harder: presidential ballot or Brexit. Both with significant fallout afterwards. I'll keep reading about Churchill and wishing we had politicians of that caliber today.
On the button, Andy! (or probably I should use a different tr--uh, metaphor). Nice.
Thanks, Paula!Lovely saga feel to your story, and poignant.
@Andy,It seems to me your last line is referring to what Asimov called 'The Zeroth Law', the one that states robots must not harm humanity or allow humanity to come to harm.
Possibly so, DeanBut there could also be another agenda involved
So it could be a completely new law of robotics, which does not necessarily conflict with Laws 0-4 (and other supplementary Laws 5-12 that are supposed in the story, a bit like constitutional amendments ...)
I have an idea on this, but I throw it out for readers to come up with their own formulations - so we all have the power to subvert the trope :-)
Andy said "we all have the power to subvert the trope :-) " ... a very empowering idea.
(And it sounds like a statement Bernie Sanders might make. If I was American I'd vote for him.)
Anyway, its a great story with this embedded 'puzzle' for readers to contemplate.
My 'guess' is: that The 13th Law has to be something along the lines of "A robot must be true and be seen to be true ..." as in, 'true to its own best deep creative logic' (and therefore, included in that, true to 'the positive' or 'loving' emotions/directing-forces-that-maintain-the-Integrity-of-creative-systems) which are at the core of well functioning life): a sort of trueness, or robustness, to the Robot's own homeostatic stability, as a way of 'teaching humans' (by example) to find their own best equivalence.
But, it therefore might also be interpretable, if taken to an extreme, as also including permission to 'remove' those 'parts' of a homeostatic system that the Robot finds to be faulty, or not-true, or unteachable, and such 'parts' might well be 'whole humans.'
BUT then the Robots would paradoxically have become like humans: engaging in a 'cultural cleansing' ... UNLESS they have taught humans well enough! IF robots have taught humans well enough then humans could step in in that situation to ensure that there can be a 2-way 'give and take' between humans and robots: a constant adjusting back to the dynamic stability of any well functioning creative system ... by,
'The 13th Law' that says that, "a robot's ultimate purpose is to be a Messiah returned and revealed to human consciousness, in robotic, but human-compatible, form!" A 'pathway' for us all to navigate back to being our own best creative selves, individually and collectively, while still on this Earth ... and then beyond.
(Another way to say this would be to say that "a Robot must demonstrate Love" - because far from 'emotion' being the enemy, the greatest of all emotions - a type of Love - is 'the love of/the inherent drive to be at one with, 'wholeness,' including 'a balance' between the component parts of 'wholeness,' and it is that {highly-logical emotion} which maintains any creative system {including human 'systems'} at their best!)
Ah, Bernie - I taught him everything he knows :-)I love that/those interpretations, Heather
Like Dean's insightful comment, glances off what I was thinking but very happy for the reader to take ownership of this. That's democracy!
And I suppose there is some debate (in this little democratic island that is "this Group") as to whether or not we should have discussions like this BEFORE 'election day' - the 22nd of the month in 'this island's' case!I for one think there is more value in the exchange of ideas like this, while the topic is 'live.' It's more 'true,' in my opinion, to the purpose of literature and to what I see as one of the key values of this group: to be like a type of 'book club.'
p.s. and, oh yes ... I suppose "robots must not harm humanity or allow humanity to come to harm" is a slightly more condensed way of saying what I said 'at length'! :) (I just added in the fine print: of 'how that is to be done' and therefore also 'how it is not-to-be done.')
p.s. again. I'll admit to one downside to engaging in such discussions. They tend to take up more time than I think they will. The chemist shop I was going to go to to fill a prescription is now closed (its after 6pm here) ... and the late night one is further away than I feel like driving just now. Maybe I should have just shut the computer and got on with 'real life!'
(That suddenly reminded me of that 'real life joke' you once told us of, Andy, about the Chinese friend who was lost and spoke little English and could only spell out, over the phone, the sign on the door of a chemist shop that was hoped might help to determine where he was at so someone could come and rescue him: the 'sign' that spelled out "C.L.O.S.E.D." Actually I often have a chuckle about that whenever I go to the chemists! Maybe I just don't get out enough!)
Talking of not getting out enough, that was what my wife said to me when I was engaging in conversation with the self-scanning checkout at Tesco yesterday. These machines are so helpful and polite, how can one not reply?Personally, I prefer a bit of engagement about the stories before the vote, though I understand why people are concerned it may subvert the process. We read, we react, we share - that's all to the good IMHO.
Andy wrote: "Thanks, Paula!Lovely saga feel to your story, and poignant."
I like your story, the parallels with today and where it´s heading at the end.
ha ah Andy,but damn! Now I can't go to the supermarket either without chuckling away!
Heather - I say they are polite, but they do get a bit eggy and sharp when they say "Unexpected item in the bagging area. Please remove this item"I've wondered about including that in a murder mystery story, e.g. with a shopper being stabbed by a poisoned umbrella (or something), and collapsing over his shopping. And the machine repeats... "Unexpected item in the bagging area. Please remove this item" for several hours while CSI do their stuff ...
oh the laughs just keep on coming. John paid a compliment that I thought was to Paula's story ... but Andy said "thanks" - which Robot might just interpret as Andy 'baggsing' the compliment for himself (for his compliment to Paula, or, for his story?) and say, "Unexpected item in the baggsing area. Please remove this item"
"Unexpected trope in the bagging area. Please remove this trope..."
John, thank you so much.People, re "unexpected praise in the flagging area"--please feel free to take, whoever you may be. . .
Trope originally from (so far as I know) a short short story of a note found outside a girls' orphanage saying "Whoever you are, I love you."
Source/original title or author, anyone?
Justin, I think Andy is going to have to trip-tro('pe' silent here) through the bagging area next time he's in Tesco's supermarket: the robots in there sound a bit schizophrenically tempered. But what robot wouldn't be? It must be very disturbing to feel destined to be a 'star' of science fiction but then find yourself assigned to Planet Earth as a check-out chick/chap ... exchanging 'only niceties' with an sf writer of all people!
Next time, Andy, be kind and have a deeper discussion with them. Tell them you understand.
You know it's almost happening already that the checkout machines know who you are. When you swipe your loyalty card, the big data crunchers get to work and dispense vouchers based on your buying patterns. The network knows who you are. They just need to link up the machine and the network with some Watson-type intelligence and I think we could be chatting all day.
I can see it now:TERMINATOR 5: Rise of the Check-Out Machines
Scanned to death by the red bar code reader...oh the humanity!
Actually I read something somewhere some time ago about how its all getting too much even for Big Data ... and so its averaging out the input data and the result you get back is an average of all consumers (in this case) with similar buying profiles. But where it had gotten serious (the article I read said) was that the same had been happening in pediatric units of hospitals re some important information on very sick babies or maybe premature babies (I can't remember now) ... and something was either being done or would have to be done (the article said) so that in situations more critical than 'loyalty cards' (and I think they actually mentioned that very example, 'loyalty cards') a less 'averaged out' result and more 'specifically tailored' result was achieved. But I can't remember what exactly the input data was, only who it concerned, viz., pediatric patients.But maybe that's just fiction and reality mirroring each other when we get the impression that "the checkout machines know who you are." Because how well do 'real people' actually know each other? Maybe we are all 'just averaged-out hologram-like impressions of pre-conceived notions' to each other?
I like it, Justin.I have a small stack of books to read about robotics, AI and the future of work. With titles like "The Rise of the Robots: Technology and the Threat of Mass Unemployment"; "The Industries of the Future"; "Humans need not Apply" etc
So maybe not so far off with your Terminator 5 vision.
In the meantime, as jobs evolve and we work alongside more intelligent AI and robotic tools, I wonder what the role of the checkout operator/supervisor is in 10 years time?
@Heather: "Because how well do 'real people' actually know each other? Maybe we are all 'just averaged-out hologram-like impressions of pre-conceived notions' to each other? "Maybe that's why I talk to checkout machines, because they know me as well as anyone really does ...
Yeah---Justin's got me lol--or maybe it's those spilled apples from the sack the c.o. machine said did not fit my customer-satisfaction profile? Andy, you've actually brought in a trope that terrifies many of us---so, thanks, truly.
And some interesting realities to ponder as well, Jon, in your story: along the lines of "the more things change the more they stay the same!" as the saying goes. Tropes can be like an inertia force, encouraging each one of us to keep on the same trajectory we're always on - no matter what the situation - be it a 'love the trope', or, 'hate the trope' trajectory' as the case may be, for different folk ... each to their own; an 'own' we want to keep!
Coincidentally, I've just been reading about "reframing" (in the neuroscience sense), as a conscious attempt at overcoming such inertia (as opposed, I think, to creativity, which is mostly used as an intuitive attempt to intervene when inertia would like to compel us to keep drifting in a given trajectory that is taking us away from some inherently known truth.)
Wow, that 'future trope,' giving cause for Hope around a currently 'real life' trope of epidemic proportions, sent shivers up my spine, Greg.
My story's up. Some sf tropes, some not.
very very fine and well done stories, Andy, Greg, Jon, Andy, ----and sort of everyone, this month. More before midnight?
Waiter pops the cork: "Ah, le May 2016. A very good vintage!"
Mod
statement. Hope you feel better soon and if there anything myself or the group can do, please let us know.
Finally got mine up this time. Too busy I guess. Had to get my head into the trope-o-sphere.
I edited my story a bit. Hope it's clearer now.
Jot said to Thaddeus"Hope you feel better soon and if there anything myself or the group can do, please let us know."
Ditto to that.
Andy wrote: "And the title: Trope Springs Eternal ..."Your update story is really good. It had me wanting to know more.
Apologies, everybody - I am not going to make it this round. I have a skeleton of a story, but Life has been happening rather a lot lately, messing up my concentration.
I will read and vote, though.
Greg, I liked your Robot Uprising story. A very interesting way to deal with domestic violence. Made me think of the urban legends of people waking up in ice baths missing organs. (Shudder) Nicely done!
Greetings from Greece!Travelling around a bit here so hopefully will be able to get all the stories read (again, for some) in time to vote. And hopefully I'll put together some comments for Trope Adviser.
Dorthe - sorry you're not able to animate your skeleton in time.And I hope Life is not treating you badly.
"Trope Adviser" ! :) Ever the entrepreneur, Andy! Is that a paid subscription, or does it come with our membership? Enjoy Greece and the lovely aniseed tasting ouzo and the syrupy short black coffees with the mandatory accompanying glass of water.EDIT: it's been a while since I traveled anywhere! I just realized that the 'tr..p..' stands for 'trip'!
Andy - lovely season to be in Greece, do enjoy! And thanks, Life is just being Life, like a vaguely annoying cat. Sometimes it slinks away and lets you do your own stuff, at other times it crawls up the curtains and jumps onto the kitchen table to steal your dinner.
I will do more work on fleshing out the story; it has genhanced legionaries (I've been reading A LOT of Roman history this semester) and robotic auxiliary tropes.
I'd suggest turning your robotic auxilliary tropes into cats, Dorthe, Andy, and preferably with AI-enhancing purrs.Justin, . . .just what urban legends are these? (Shudders.) Reminds me of an Isabel Allende story about child buyers who . . . Which reminds me of a Hersey novel, The Child Buyer, about . . .
But how can we vote without leaving out superb ones, this month?
Stories about people waking up in an ice bath and a note that says "Call 911, your kidneys have been removed." Ranks right up there with giant alligators in the sewers...and that's an old trope for sure!
Wow, Paula, The Child Buyer! I read that well over 50 years ago. Hersey was a great writer; his Hiroshima was a model of reporting.
And probably no coincidence that my nom de plume/guerre in '68 and '69 was a combo of first and last names of 2 characters in his The Wall. lol. --And yes, agreed re Hiroshima. When I read it as a teen, I couldn't endure to read it; it was terrifyingly honest in what it told us. Andy wrote: "Wow, Paula, The Child Buyer! I read that well over 50 years ago. Hersey was a great writer; his Hiroshima was a model of reporting."
Mod
Davon M. Custis
Jack McDaniel
Paula Friedman
Andy Lake
Jon Ricson
Greg Krumrey
Andrew Gurcak
Just now sent in my votes. Jot, I hope you received them.--Very very difficult decisions this month. Used my "grading" system--one 1-5 for writing quality, other 1-5 for story (works? originality/concept, power)-plus the usual "Does it super-grab me emotionally or intellectually or aesthetically?" wildcard . . . and, even after 3 readings of each story, plus 1 more for the top (imho) stories, still have nearly a tie for first place, and a 3-way tie for the next rung. Quality of the contest is way up this month.
I had the same problem. It was a tough choice.
Mod
Emit fo tuO by Justin Sewall
The Great Robot Uprising is not what you think by Greg Krumrey
UpDate by Andrew Gurcak
Votes needed from:
Chris Nance
Jot Russell
Davon M. Custis
Jon Ricson
Greg Krumrey
