Reading what shouldn't have been published

[Nente]

How does everyone feel about reading something the author didn't intend (or have time to prepare) for publication? Like unfinished drafts, discarded versions of published books, etc.

The question came up while discussing Jane Austen's oeuvre and her unfinished novels Sanditon and The Watsons. I personally never read them and don't intend to, because I feel that she worked on a text a lot, and it wouldn't be fair to read what she didn't have a chance to polish.

I remember I just hated Christopher Tolkien for publishing absolutely every scrap of his father's writing, annotating it like "but then he decided not to include this" or "but finally another version went into the revised text" - why publish something the author himself rejected?

However, I am at the moment reading Lord Chesterfield's letters to his son, the publication of which he couldn't have approved, so I'm not blameless either.

[Pink]

I tend not to read books that were published after the author's death or were discovered later. There are exceptions, such as with older works that were finished, but just didn't find a publisher, although of course this is difficult to ascertain.

Some books I've avoided have been Hemingway's later novels that were published after his death, as I don't think it's fair to read something that the author didn't finish or edit.

I also passionately avoided Go Set a Watchman which I have numerous issues with.

[Nente]

Yes, I also am wary of Go Set a Watchman, but I thought Harper Lee actually wrote it just recently?

[Pink]

Nente wrote: "Yes, I also am wary of Go Set a Watchman, but I thought Harper Lee actually wrote it just recently?"

No, it was the original draft of To Kill a Mockingbird, that was rejected and then reworked into that novel. Apparently it was lost and forgotten for the next 50 or so years, then found in a locked box by her lawyer. Harper Lee chose never to publish anything after Mockingbird and lived a very reclusive life, so I find it hard to believe that she had a complete turnaround in her old age. I'm more concerned that she was taken advantage of by her lawyer and the publishers. There's lots of conflicting evidence. Even if she did choose to publish this book, it's not one that I'd want to read as a first draft, rather than an entirely independent book.

[Jen]

This discussion calls to mind many writers who would never have been discovered had their final wishes to destroy their works been followed through with. For example, Emily Dickinson. I'm not into poetry, or ignoring final wishes, but would the world have been worse without her works? Should her wishes have been listened to or were they right to publish?

[Nente]

Thanks for the info, Pink - now I definitely won't consider it.
I sort of shunned even the mentions of this book because I felt I liked to preserve the shining impression To Kill a Mockingbird left...

[Nente]

Jen, that's difficult to answer. It's like those moral dilemma problems where there's really no right, just two different wrongs to choose from.

[Jen]

Well, my knee-jerk reaction for "Go Set a Watchman" is that it never should have seen the light of day, it was published so her beneficiaries could make money. She was very clear about her wishes to not publish anything else. It added nothing to TKAM, it might have actually taken away from it. But that's different then NEVER even knowing Dickinson existed. You are right, it's a difficult question to answer.

[Pink]

Yes I think they're very different things. Letter collections are another category that spring to mind. I love reading these, even though the author might not have wanted them published.

[Nente]

I do read letters, as I said in the first post - but I cannot help feeling guilty about it now and then.

[Pink]

Yes, I think there is some sense of guilt, especially when reading personal info.

I wonder how people think Anne's The Diary of a Young Girl fits into this?

[Jen]

I'm not sure how true it is, but I heard that Anne Frank at some point had started to go back and edit her diary, with the intention of getting it published. If that is the case, her father deciding to publish it works for me.

[Tintinnabula]

Yours is a very good question Nente... I guess it really depends on the peculiar situation: some authors probably really didn't want certain works to be published, in some cases it was just they died or were not able to finish them.
Personally, I don't like to read collections of letters or diaries, but I think if they are of some historical interest then it's ok to have them published.

[Melanti]

Pink wrote: "Harper Lee chose never to publish anything after Mockingbird and lived a very reclusive life, so I find it hard to believe that she had a complete turnaround in her old age. ..."

My understanding is that the manuscript was lost. Perhaps she would have published it herself if she'd known where it was?

The story is that it (Go Set a Watchman) was returned by the publisher, but somehow got attached to a proof of To Kill a Mockingbird. Whomever looked at it saw TKaM on top, and assumed that the the bottom was TKaM also, and just filed it away, not realizing that they were also filing away GSaW. Then, recently, someone was going through the old TKaM papers and found it.

In any case, with her vision and hearing issues, she's hardly capable of editing the book herself, so GSaW is basically an unedited first draft of a novel deemed unpublishable several decades ago. I can see it being interesting to scholars, but I don't see how it would be a good book for the general public. I refuse to read it just based on those grounds.


Let's give a modern example... George R. R. Martin has been very, very clear that he wants his papers destroyed after he dies and does not want anyone to finish his series. Sure, the Game of Thrones TV show producer has been told how GRRM plans to end the series, so we're guaranteed to get answers that way - but... if GRRM gets hit by a bus tomorrow - wouldn't it be a shame if his faithful readers never get any sort of resolution?

[Pink]

Thanks for clearing up more about TKaM and GSaW, I don't want to read it for much the same reasons.

I didn't know that George R.R. Martin had said that he wants his papers destroyed. I think in cases like that, when the author has explicit wishes, they should be honoured. I think Terry Pratchett's daughter took over writing the last of his discworld books, or perhaps she's continuing in the future. I can't remember exactly, but I'm assuming she's doing so with his blessing.

I'm not a fan of people continuing other author's works or rewriting them. In cases such as Bridget Jones Diary being an interpretation of Pride and Prejudice, I think that works fine. I don't like the idea of The girl with the Dragon Tattoo or Sherlock Holme's stories being continued by other authors.

I'm okay with not getting a resolution when the author dies before completing their work. It's a shame, but unless they left the finished book, anything else is an edit or re-interpetation, which isn't ideal either.

[Melanti]

Pink wrote: "It's a shame, but unless they left the finished book, anything else is an edit or re-interpetation, which isn't ideal either. ..."

I'm with you on things like Sherlock Holmes or Lord Peter Wimsy. Some series - the authors were done, and there's no point to continuing.

I stopped reading Wheel of Time a long time before Robert Jordan died, but by all accounts Sanderson did a good job in finishing up his series. So, it can work in some circumstances.

I agree GRRM's wishes should be obeyed, but his stance on that issue is one of several reasons why I refuse to read his series until he's done. Another being that it'll probably be at least another decade before he manages to finish - perhaps two. That's a really, really long time. And there's no guarantee he won't just give up writing once the TV show ends.

[Nente]

Pink,
I certainly read an interview with Rhianna Pratchett where she said no one would continue Discworld series. The last book just published was prepared by Terry himself.

[April]

Today I finished The Professor, an early work of Charlotte Bronte's that was published after her death by her widower. Not being a huge Bronte fan I didn't realise until recently that that was the case. It's been sitting on the bookshelf for years, so I thought I'd better read it. She was, I think, right not to publish it. It's not dreadful, just dull.
Having read it doesn't change my view of Bronte or her other works, however. Villette is still one of the great novels of the 19th century and The Professor is clearly a first attempt along those lines. In that respect it's interesting to see some of the themes that come out in the later work,

[Nente]

Remembered a case just exactly opposite.

Famous Russian sci-fi authors, brothers A. and B. Strugatsky, published lots of their books via samizdat (that is, not published really, just let their friends have a typed copy, which was then copied by someone else, etc.), because of the censorship. As a result they reworked several of their novels several times, and now that everyone publishes more or less what they want, all of these versions are in circulation at the same time.
So the writers no longer have an option of choosing what they really wanted to be the final version, and the readers who are not in the know from the start can accidentally get hmm... not the best.

[Jen]

No offense to the desires of George RR Martin, but he is playing with the hearts of his fans by 1) not finishing GoT already and 2) saying all papers must be destroyed after his death, regardless of whether his series is done or not. He needs to bring Winter already. I, as an angry fan, don't want his request to be honored. He is being less then nice about keeping us all hanging.

[siriusedward]

Pink wrote: "Thanks for clearing up more about TKaM and GSaW, I don't want to read it for much the same reasons.

I didn't know that George R.R. Martin had said that he wants his papers destroyed. I think in c..."

I am not a fan of other people writing an authors works either.for one it just wont be the same.the story(whatever is in that authors subconscious,his influences),the perspective, the tone will be wrong.it just wont be the same.it will be fanfiction like.
Like the later The Godfather.did not read those.

I think , as the author creates the story he has the right to chose what is to be published or not.his wishes should be respected.he wrote it after all.fans should respect him and let it go.
If i do not like a certain aspect if a story i change it in my head or read some fanfiction ..and enjoy that.i would not want that author to change what he writes to. Suit me. Though i will be sad..i will chose not to read the book.
If someone else continued harry potter..i wouldnt anticipate it or enjoy it much ..i will always feel that it is a fanfiction...which nowadays there are enough to read from...

That being said reading the early unpublished does help us to understand the author..his growth as a writer..what influenced him at different points of time...?.. Did the style and tone change...? And so on..

I dont read letters or diaries either .till now.so no opinion on that. But they can be historically ... Informative..i guess??

[siriusedward]

As to George R.R. Martin , am not a fan.never read A Game of Thrones.
Not intending to change that either.
I am not a fan of dystopian genre.i like to read a book(even if sad) ends with a ray of hope.
So.

[siriusedward]

Emily wrote: "Jen wrote: "No offense to the desires of George RR Martin, but he is playing with the hearts of his fans by 1) not finishing GoT already and 2) saying all papers must be destroyed after his death, ..."

This is true.or he can publish it all together after writing it for a long time and perfecting it then publishing it like J.R.R. Tolkien did

[Melanti]

Emily wrote: "Wow, I was unaware that George RR Martin wanted his papers destroyed upon his death, I was told via word of mouth that he had someone to finish his series, like Robert Jordan did for the final book in the Wheel of Time series. ..."

Well, unless he's changed his mind in the last couple of years, he's on record as saying no. http://www.tor.com/2013/11/12/george-...

Granted, I don't follow authors, as a general rule, so if he has changed his mind, I wouldn't know.

I'm okay with authors taking their time writing. But, you can't repeatedly not follow through on promises on when you're on a publishing schedule and expect all of your fans to wait patiently.

There's another author (Not GRRM) who's been doing the same thing - his publishing dates just get pushed back farther and farther. I just have no motivation to read him anymore, since I have no idea when his next installment might be. After this authors last book was MANY years overdue (5 or 6?) the estimated publication date for the next book was just the next year. Talk about being optimistic! Seeing that literally made me laugh at both him and his publishers.

That was 3 or 4 years ago, and the next book STILL doesn't have a solid date.

[Pink]

Yes the never-ending GoT! I've watched the series and have the box set, but still haven't read them.

How about Kafka? I think he wanted his friend to destroy his work after he died, but he read and published them instead. I haven't read anything by him, but it seems a shame to think they might have been destroyed if his wishes were carried out.

[Melanti]

I love Kafka, but I'm torn on that one... His is most famous - The Metamorphosis - was published before he died, and I happen to think that's his best.

But... his friend didn't just publish Kafka's work. Several of the books weren't finished, and the friend actually heavily edited them to make sense - including re-arranging and finishing chapters. Finishing sentences in some cases! Many of the books weren't even close to being publication worthy when Kafka died. I think they would have been VERY different books if Kafka had written them all himself.

If his friend could have published them as-is, that would be one thing. But with all the work that was done... well - there's probably a lot of people who've read one of those novels and have formed an opinion one way or the other about Kafka's work but it's not entirely Kafka they're reading. That's kind of sad.

[Desertorum]

I tend to think that the writer is usually right, when he/she says not to publish something after his death. They are usually not that good and personally I want to have idea of his writing from the books he intended to be read (like in the Kafka case). I usually feel that they are just way to make money, like I feel is the case with GSaW.
What comes to GoT, I´m a fan but I wouldn´t read the end of the series if somebody else completed it. How am I going to be sure that it´s how GRRM would have ended it? It would feel incomplete still.

[Nente]

I've slogged through 2,5 books of Martin's series and feel it's long enough already, and also that the series would be completed much quicker if it didn't bring so much money.

[Melanti]

Nente wrote: "I've slogged through 2,5 books of Martin's series and feel it's long enough already, and also that the series would be completed much quicker if it didn't bring so much money."

Well, regardless of the length of the actual books, you're right.

GRRM only writes when he's at home for extended periods of time, so the more popular his series is and the more he has obligations away from home - speaking engagements, cons, book tours, etc - the less time he has to write, and therefore the slower his books get written.

[[deleted user]]

Pink wrote: "Yes, I think there is some sense of guilt, especially when reading personal info.

I wonder how people think Anne's The Diary of a Young Girl fits into this?"

Interesting, Pink. I was thinking exactly the same thing. Anne's father did apparently edit and trim the diary before publishing it (apparently now the company that has rights to the book are making the claim, for various reasons, that on this basis he is a co-author). But then, there are unabridged versions that are coming to light...
Also, if we say what her father prepared for publication is fine (because he is family), then what about the various unabridged editions? And I wonder, if Anne was intending to publish, whether she had wanted to publish some of her private disclosures about herself and others...

Disclaimer: I haven't actually read Anne (I'm thinking of doing just that though), but this thread makes me ponder ... and also consider what edition I should pick up to read (currently leaning toward reading Otto Frank's edited edition)

[Pink]

That's a good point about letters being written for a larger audience in past centuries. Our letter writing has certainly changed over time and I don't think many people write letters at all nowadays.

[Melanti]

Pink wrote: " Harper Lee chose never to publish anything after Mockingbird and lived a very reclusive life, so I find it hard to believe that she had a complete turnaround in her old age. ..."

I just heard that Lee's heirs killed the MMPB version of To Kill a Mockingbird and it'll now be printed only in the more expensive trade sized paperback.

The whole situation just reeks. It does make me doubt the long-lost manuscript story a bit more than I was before.

[Pink]

I just had to google what mmpb was! That doesn't sound very good does it. Everything I've read about her life and book(s) over the past year or so has really been quite disturbing. It feels like a great classic has been somewhat tainted by controversy and now she's died it seems to get even worse. I wonder if they'll find any more books now.

[Zoe]

Nargus wrote: Disclaimer: I haven't actually read Anne (I'm thinking of doing just that though), but this thread makes me ponder ... and also consider what edition I should pick up to read (currently leaning toward reading Otto Frank's edited edition)

You should definitely read it. I've read both. The unedited version has some unflattering descriptions of two people who lived in the Annex and some writings about sex in it.

[Aprilleigh]

Melanti wrote: "I stopped reading Wheel of Time a long time before Robert Jordan died, but by all accounts Sanderson did a good job in finishing up his series. So, it can work in some circumstances."

It helps that he specifically wanted someone to finish the series if he died before he could do so. He left extensive notes for that very purpose.