SoS: Should Elfstones have been picked instead?

[fezfox]

Ok. Fair call. I haven't got to that part yet! Does Shea then say "what does 'scientifically' mean?" :)

EDIT: also see: https://xkcd.com/890/

[fezfox]

Maybe this is getting far down the track, but do we later get a scientific explanation for how the elf stones work, given its all on earth/physics works normally?

[Tassie Dave, S&L Historian]

fezfox wrote: "Maybe this is getting far down the track, but do we later get a scientific explanation for how the elf stones work, given its all on earth/physics works normally?"

He doesn't give a scientific reason. The magic is still fantastical. It is a fantasy book. Not a sci-fi/fantasy.

(view spoiler)[He does still give the elves a fantasy element. They and their magic are ancient. He has them as similar to other authors, as being here with us always, but staying hidden in isolated forests, until after the apocalypse where they have to help the other races. It is the only way for them to survive themselves. The other evil beings and magic are fantasy as well (You see the demons and other evil more in Elfstones and later books that Sword). From before our time. The only creatures that he explains scientifically are the dwarves, gnomes and trolls which are mutated species of humans. (hide spoiler)]

[Trike]

I think that later in the book they also pass ruins of buildings. That scene was echoed in the TV series when they pass the moss-covered burned-out husk of a helicopter and truck, but is made explicit in the trailer and opening sequence with the ruins of Seattle. (Which makes the elves Canadian, eh?)

[Dwayne]

Tassie Dave wrote: "fezfox wrote: "Yes, I read all of this, but whilst you *could* attach this to a post apocalyptic earth scenario, there's nothing there to specifically suggest it......I get the feeling the "post ea..."

Oh yeah. Brooks does expound on that later. I forgot about that.

[fezfox]

Ok, I can see that TB intended this. But I do find this kinda odd. There was a technological past with no magic (or it was there, but even with all that tech, it was invisible - sort of like the HP/Muggle thing). Now there's a future with no technology and magic is obvious and everyone knows about it, but they don't know anything about technology... Its an unusual post-apocalyptic setup!

[Tassie Dave, S&L Historian]

Trike wrote: "I think that later in the book they also pass ruins of buildings. "

Yes they see the remains of city buildings. metal girders and stone like substance (concrete). They even find a date and name on a building, but Brooks (annoyingly) doesn't say what they are. But Flick and Shea do recognise the date as being before the Great Wars.
Which I know, from checking a Shannara timeline, his later books puts as occurring in (view spoiler)[2062 (hide spoiler)]

[Sean]

fezfox wrote: "Its an unusual post-apocalyptic setup!"

That's probably what I like the most about the whole Shannara setting. Most post-apocalyptic stuff is along the lines of Fallout or the Mad Max movies - they're set relatively shortly after civilization collapsed, so there's still plenty of people around who remember what life was like before, or at least have heard about it. What I'd like to see are more stories set a few centuries later, when all this stuff is still around, but most people have no idea what any of it is or what it's for.

[Trike]

Sean wrote: "What I'd like to see are more stories set a few centuries later, when all this stuff is still around, but most people have no idea what any of it is or what it's for. "

The Greatwinter trilogy by Sean McMullen is sort of like that. Science Fiction rather than Fantasy. Souls in the Great Machine, The Miocene Arrow and Eyes of the Calculor. I recall enjoying them quite a bit.

Also, the classic A Canticle for Liebowitz definitely pushes this button in at least one section of the book, as post-apocalyptic monks try to preserve knowledge from the past by creating illuminated manuscripts based on ancient technical drawings they are clueless about.

[Sean]

Yeah, that's kinda why I liked the first two parts of Canticle a lot more than the third. I really wanted to dive in and explore those worlds, see things beyond the very limited scope provided by the monks.

And I will add those books to my "to-read" list. Thanks!

[Alan]

I really loved Souls in the Great Machine. A LOT of fun.

[fezfox]

I also really liked A Canticle for Leibowitz. It's the 'there was a non magical world with nuclear weapons... Now there are elves and magic...' that I find hard to swallow. But TBH it's the writing itself that's 90% of the problem, not the plot .

[Jodhan]

Sean wrote: "fezfox wrote: "Its an unusual post-apocalyptic setup!"

That's probably what I like the most about the whole Shannara setting. Most post-apocalyptic stuff is along the lines of Fallout or the Mad M..."

My Novel To Kill a King takes place roughly 700 after the end of the world as we know it. There are still building and technology. Most of the population has vague ideas about what they are and what they are for. New 'technologies' and ancient ones are what is moving used moving going forward. Part of the story is a need to reclaim past technologies and power to advance cultural conquest. But again most of the people alive don't know what to do with 20th century technology. In one scene the MC is sneaking through the Musée de l'Homme in Paris and he is confused as to the purpose of the building or why it exists or why the Eiffel tower was built the way it was. In my world, old world tech is more major problem than ancient curiosity. Some of it will even kill and subsist of the people of the that century.

[Lee]

Just finished Elfstones, does anyone know who the guy with the bow is on the cover of this edition?

I spent ages waiting for this fella to turn up and I think I missed him as he's a minor character. How much did you have to be in a book to make the cover back in the eighties? It could of course be Robin Hood in a cameo.

(view spoiler)[ I think its an elven captain called Crispin, who I think even dies off page. (hide spoiler)]

[Paul]

Richard wrote: "There seems to be a consensus that Sword should be skipped entirely and those interested in this series should go straight to the second book. The show runners at MTV agreed. While I'd give the sam..."

Reading the second book really isn't jumping into the middle of the series. The original 3 books, Sword, Elfstones, Wishsong all take place generations apart. you really don't need to read any of them to really understand the others. The rest of the books are more traditional trilogys. And typically each trilogy is a generation or two apart from each other.

[J]

Lee wrote: "

Just finished Elfstones, does anyone know who the guy with the bow is on the cover of this edition?


(view spoiler)[ I also assumed him to be Crispin. They cross a bridge whilst being pursued and then Crispin sacrifices himself while destroying the supports for the bridge. This is them at the end of the bridge but before attacking the supports, IMO. (hide spoiler)]

[Paulo Vinicius]

I believe that that was the correct choice. Never begin a series by a middle book. The author always thinks his series in a crescendo style. It is obvious that the first book in a series will always suffer from some sort of excess of explanation points or too much world building. That is one of the weaker points in this volume: too much information. I'm curious to read the second book because of the series, but I'll wait a little because this book tired me a lot.

[Tassie Dave, S&L Historian]

Paulo Vinicius wrote: "I'm curious to read the second book because of the series, but I'll wait a little because this book tired me a lot"

I would recommend waiting until the series is over. The TV show has diverted so far from the book, as to be unrecognisable.
I am worried that the ending of the show, as far as the Elfstones storyline, (This Tuesday) is going to be a huge let down from the good ending Brooks had.

[Lee]

I'll give Brooks that, the ending of Elfstones is a good idea. Interesting symbolism etc.

His characters though are so one dimensional that the final reveal had no emotional impact.

There's one of the books in James Barclay's Raven series, where the Raven fail for the first time and the book ends on a downer. Similar general fantasy stuff but I remember feeling a bit sad about it the time.


(view spoiler)[ Even Brooks is dismissive of his ending, the epilogue is basically Valeman is a bit sad about Elven girl sacrificing herself, oh Rover Girl is all alone, she'll do instead as she been hanging around for most the book, The End (hide spoiler)]

[fezfox]

@Lee Nice epilogue. Clearly I can't read that one either!

[Lee]

fezfox wrote: "@Lee Nice epilogue. Clearly I can't read that one either!"

You did't like Brooks over use of Valeman did you?

Get the book as an eBook then you can copy and paste your own epithets* in at random. It can only improve the experience.

(*I've just looked that up, apparently an epithet 'is a byname, or a descriptive term (word or phrase), accompanying or occurring in place of a name and having entered common usage'. Terry Brooks you have actually just taught me something, thank you Terry :). Does it count though if the common usage is only a result of Terry's poor writing.)

[fezfox]

It's interesting: after giving up on SoS in disgust (I read the wikipedia plot summary, and went "Wow! Knowing this I am even *more sure* I won't enjoy trawling through 200 more "valeman"s to get to that) I am reading the "Milkweed Tryptich". Now I understand this was Ian Tregillis's first novel.... and the writing is very good! So we can't say "Oh, poor TB, it was his first novel".

[Lee]

Bitter Seeds looks interesting, Nazis, WW2, Spanish Civil War, Warlocks and Superheroes. I love a good mash-up.

Really wanted to like Black Hand Gang. WW1 trench soldiers/alien aduction but the idea was better than the execution.

The Keep now there's a good nazis/vampires mash-up.

[fezfox]

Yes, I liked The Keep. Book better than the movie I might add.

[Tassie Dave, S&L Historian]

The whole Milkweed Tryptich trilogy is amazing. One of my favourite series of any genre.

[Trike]

Milkweed has superb writing but by the end of the first one I kind of felt not much happened and it was such a bummer I didn't feel compelled to continue.

[Paulo Vinicius]

Tassie Dave wrote: "Paulo Vinicius wrote: "I'm curious to read the second book because of the series, but I'll wait a little because this book tired me a lot"

I would recommend waiting until the series is over. The T..."

Really? Come on... that is not fair. Just for the audiences. You already made me quit the series. Oh, man, I hate when they do this.

[Papaphilly]

Terry Brooks has put out a chronological order to his series. If you are just thinking about reading the series this is as good as any place to start.

[Tassie Dave, S&L Historian]

Papaphilly wrote: "Terry Brooks has put out a chronological order to his series. If you are just thinking about reading the series this is as good as any place to start."

That is not the order Brooks suggest reading it in and it is not the order they should be read in.
Brooks suggests reading them in their release order and I'd agree.

"First King of Shannara" takes place before "Sword" but it is better to read it after the next 7 Books. It is Book 8 in the series.

Knowing what happened from the decisions made in this book is what makes it a better and more poignant book.

If you read them out of release order you will miss important points or know information that you are not meant to find out until important points later (Chronologically) in the series.

[Papaphilly]

Tassie Dave wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "Terry Brooks has put out a chronological order to his series. If you are just thinking about reading the series this is as good as any place to start."

That is not..."

My mistake. I read the revisiting the series list as the first time read. I wonder why he does not suggest both for all readers. His website does not have the Word and Void books in the cannons either. If you want to read in chronological order, there is the place to start. I wonder if it is a mistake.