The Mystery, Crime, and Thriller Group discussion
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Jan/ Feb 2016 Group Read Selection - The Last Detective by Peter Lovesey
Sherry wrote: "I really liked the narrator too. I was really into this book until the end. I can't make the spoiler symbols work on my tblet for some reason. I can't say why the ending disappointed me which is fr..."I'm sorry the spoiler alert isn't working for you, Sherry. If you want to put your thoughts about the ending into the thread, you could say at the beginning of your post that it includes spoilers and to not read further if you haven't finished the book. I've seen that used by others in discussion threads before - maybe by people having the same problem. :)
Thanks Suzy. I got yelled at for doing that in another group. LOL!
I don't know if the html text works in tablets. But follow Suzy's suggestion, Sherry. As long as you warn folks at the beginning of your post, they might just pass it by until they finish the book. We'll try not to yell at you.. ;0)
Bill wrote: "I don't know if the html text works in tablets. But follow Suzy's suggestion, Sherry. As long as you warn folks at the beginning of your post, they might just pass it by until they finish the book...."It works on my Samsung Galaxy.
Sherry wrote: "Thanks Suzy. I got yelled at for doing that in another group. LOL!"Echoing Bill, we won't yell at you here in the MCT group :)
aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "I have finished the novel and for the most part, it was very entertaining. For some reason, I was reminded of an older style of English mysteries made famous by Agatha Christie while reading this, ..."Thanks all! I want to add to your thoughts April:
SPOILER! !!!!SPOILER! !!SPOILER! !!
Kids who are caught snooping or trying to steal things just run away. He wouldn't kill the person who catches him unless he's a psychopath. The motive isn't plausible to me. And as you said, Diamond isn't going to think this hideous kid just made a little mistake.
aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "Sherry-[spoilers removed]"
SPOILER!!!
April, maybe Lovesay should have done some research. I am a fan of the cozies which are light weight, but I'd much rather the ending would have matched the story. I would be very guarded around a teen like this one. If a person gets killed for waking up then I'd never cross him!
The idea that The Last Detective is a mystery in the "cozy" category has been mentioned in a couple of posts. I didn't think of it as a cozy, but am interested in what others think. (There doesn't seem to be a standard definition of what a cozy is, so I'm doubly interested in what people think.) Please weigh in!
Suzy wrote: "The idea that The Last Detective is a mystery in the "cozy" category has been mentioned in a couple of posts. I didn't think of it as a cozy, but am interested in what others think. (There doesn't ..."The beginning of the book has a very close resemblance, I think, to the "golden age" mysteries of Agatha Christie, Dorothy Sayers, et al, so rather than a cozy, it has an older-fashioned ambience.
I don't think of The Last Detective as a book in the cozy category. If I had to categorize it I would say police procedural, though as those of us who have finished the book know (view spoiler).
I think of a cozy as kind of "cutesy" or "domestic" or driven by non-professional sleuths. (Taking deep breath hoping not to get yelled at for that definition lol.) Things generally wrap up in the happily ever after mode. I'm not a big fan of cozies in general but I've read some and been entertained.
Mod
Another point to consider, this is a first book, at least in this series, and first books often have "issues" that get smoothed out as the series matures.
I agree that I'd put this in the police procedural category. I like some in this genre better than others. This is more interesting to me than some because of the setting in Bath and Bristol and the background themes.Re the idea of "cozy", I once read that the definition of a cozy was that an amateur sleuth is the main protagonist vs. someone in law enforcement or a professional detective jiving with what Denise said - series such as 11-year-old Flavia deLuce or Her Royal Spyness, both of which I like. Others define cozy by where it is set and identify Louise Penny's Armand Gamache series in Three Pines, Quebec or Bruno Chief of Police in the Dordognes of France.
But then this is all food for discussion - difficult sometimes when there are not agreed-upon definitions.
Donna wrote: "I would not classify the Peter Diamond series as a cozy either. It's more a classic or traditional police procedural. I've read a few more in the series and they keep to the police procedural style..."I was cutting Lovesey some slack because this is his first. :) I look forward to seeing how he develops, at least giving book 2 a try.
Denise wrote: "Suzy wrote: "The idea that The Last Detective is a mystery in the "cozy" category has been mentioned in a couple of posts. I didn't think of it as a cozy, but am interested in what others think. (T..."I agree with your description. I don't think this book is a cozy. The Rosemary and Thyme show, which he created, is a delightfully cozy show.
Suzy wrote: "Donna wrote: "I would not classify the Peter Diamond series as a cozy either. It's more a classic or traditional police procedural. I've read a few more in the series and they keep to the police pr..."I'm going to read another one too. He has a nice style for the most part.
Denise wrote: "Suzy wrote: "The idea that The Last Detective is a mystery in the "cozy" category has been mentioned in a couple of posts. I didn't think of it as a cozy, but am interested in what others think. (T..."I wholeheartedly agree about the first book of a series with issues to be worked out as the series progresses. I plan to continue this series and I'm looking forward to the next book.
Suzy wrote: "I agree that I'd put this in the police procedural category. I like some in this genre better than others. This is more interesting to me than some because of the setting in Bath and Bristol and th..."wow I love Louise Penny's Detective Gamache series and never thought of it as a cozy - interesting that the setting defines it to some - I'll have to reconsider my definition of cozy or completely disagree that setting has anything to do with it I'm not sure! Food for thought.
I think of a cozy as someone who owns a shop or works in a library or caters nice food or has a fascinating hobby. They have nice friends and love their families. They don't have bad habits like smoking or drinking. They have the bad luck of stumbling over bodies and sometimes they're accused.They have to solve the murder because the detectives are kind of dumb. Also, the victim is almost aways a jerk who every one is glad to see dead. Lol
Sherry wrote: "I think of a cozy as someone who owns a shop or works in a library or caters nice food or has a fascinating hobby. They have nice friends and love their families. They don't have bad habits like sm..."thats a good definition!
Cozy mysteries, also referred to simply as "cozies", are a subgenre of crime fiction in which sex and violence are downplayed or treated humorously, and the crime and detection take place in a small, socially intimate community. The term was first coined in the late 20th century when various writers produced work in an attempt to re-create the Golden Age of Detective Fiction-wikipedia
aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "Cozy mysteries, also referred to simply as "cozies", are a subgenre of crime fiction in which sex and violence are downplayed or treated humorously, and the crime and detection take place in a smal..."Interesting! With that definition, The Last Detective - and I'm assuming the Diamond series - definitely doesn't fit. Nice to know the Wiki def, but Sherry's description is so much more fun ;)
Denise wrote: "Sherry wrote: "I think of a cozy as someone who owns a shop or works in a library or caters nice food or has a fascinating hobby. They have nice friends and love their families. They don't have bad..."Thanks Denise!
Thank you April for the definition. I had no idea that they used the term "cozy" that long ago.
Isn't that odd! To me, it is totally a cozy!
Suzy wrote: "aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "Cozy mysteries, also referred to simply as "cozies", are a subgenre of crime fiction in which sex and violence are downplayed or treated humorously, and the crime..."Haha I've read so many of them!
I don't define cozy mysteries the way Wikipedia does. I'd define it more with what Sherry said and what The Cozy Mystery website sayshttp://www.cozy-mystery.com/Definitio...
especially where the amateur sleuth is usually a well-educated woman and so forth. The only cozy I can think of with a male lead is Hamish Macbeth but I'm sure there are more! When someone says cozy I think someone selling muffins or knitting. A much narrower definition for sure.
Suzy wrote: "If you didn't see it, someone commented very early in this thread that Lovesey wrote the Rosemary and Thyme mysteries."I had no idea! I love that show! Also Inspector Lewis and all mysteries set in Oxford are always favorites. An Unsuitable Job for a Woman is a favorite.
Denise wrote: "I don't define cozy mysteries the way Wikipedia does. I'd define it more with what Sherry said and what The Cozy Mystery website sayshttp://www.cozy-mystery.com/Definitio...
e..."
I think of knitting or someone selling muffins too.
Eve wrote: "Suzy wrote: "If you didn't see it, someone commented very early in this thread that Lovesey wrote the Rosemary and Thyme mysteries."I had no idea! I love that show! Also Inspector Lewis and all m..."
Those shows are all great!
Sherry wrote: "Denise wrote: "I don't define cozy mysteries the way Wikipedia does. I'd define it more with what Sherry said and what The Cozy Mystery website sayshttp://www.cozy-mystery.com/Definitio......"
or even knitting muffins!
Seriously, it seems that there is a sub-sub-genre that developed for crime fiction, the cozy and then the cozy cozy or gentle cozy because I cannot wrap my mind around defining The Last Detective as a cozy like the tea shop, catering company, etc. cozies. To me they are so vastly different they make another category or sub-genre. It doesn't bother me if someone else thinks The Last Detective is a cozy, its just my personal idea about it which I don't mean to harp on about I just find it interesting to hear others' opinions.
Sherry wrote: "Eve wrote: "Suzy wrote: "If you didn't see it, someone commented very early in this thread that Lovesey wrote the Rosemary and Thyme mysteries."I had no idea! I love that show! Also Inspector Lew..."
Sherry, I BINGE on them when I need comfort, lol! I'm always looking for another BBC mystery series I haven't yet seen.
Denise wrote: "Sherry wrote: "Denise wrote: "I don't define cozy mysteries the way Wikipedia does. I'd define it more with what Sherry said and what The Cozy Mystery website sayshttp://www.cozy-mystery.com/Defin..."
So what do we call a mystery with dark elements of violence and licentiousness set in a small, quiet village...because that's what I like, lol!
Eve wrote: "Denise wrote: "Sherry wrote: "Denise wrote: "I don't define cozy mysteries the way Wikipedia does. I'd define it more with what Sherry said and what The Cozy Mystery website sayshttp://www.cozy-my..."
A hard-boiled cozy? lol noir cozy?
Eve wrote: "Sherry wrote: "Eve wrote: "Suzy wrote: "If you didn't see it, someone commented very early in this thread that Lovesey wrote the Rosemary and Thyme mysteries."I had no idea! I love that show! Als..."
Me too. I've burned through the ones on Netflix! I also binge on cozy mystery books.
Denise wrote: "Eve wrote: "Denise wrote: "Sherry wrote: "Denise wrote: "I don't define cozy mysteries the way Wikipedia does. I'd define it more with what Sherry said and what The Cozy Mystery website sayshttp:/..."
LOL! Too funny!
Wikipedia defines Police Procedural as: The police procedural, or police crime drama, is a subgenre of detective fiction which attempts to convincingly depict the activities of a police force as they investigate crimes. While traditional detective novels usually concentrate on a single crime, police procedurals frequently depict investigations into several unrelated crimes in a single story. While traditional mysteries usually adhere to the convention of having the criminal's identity concealed until the climax (the so-called whodunit), in police procedurals, the perpetrator's identity is often known to the audience from the outset (the inverted detective story). Police procedurals depict a number of police-related topics such as forensics, autopsies, the gathering of evidence, the use of search warrants, and interrogation.I think The Last Detective meets enough of the criteria for a police procedural. Also for Wiki's definition of Cozy .... so take your pick!
SPOILER SPOILERAt the beginning of the book, the lady who discovered the body had a fun eccentric way about her. I thought she was going to be a major character which made it feel like a cozy. She was a cat walker and a snoop. She was fun and then she was gone. After that, it felt more like a procedural.
Sherry wrote: "SPOILER SPOILERAt the beginning of the book, the lady who discovered the body had a fun eccentric way about her. I thought she was going to be a major character which made it feel like a cozy. Sh..."
I was wondering that myself - if this would be a mystery full of eccentrics, but then learned that these characters (the cat lady and the village constable) drew us in to the murder, but quickly fell away.
I'd have liked more of the cat lady. Maybe he's a cozy writer at heart.
Diamond Solitaire is the next book in the series. It looks good. It doesn't look cozy even though I think he'd be a great cozy author. Rosemary and Thyme is the ultimate cozy.
I'm only starting the book now, but I love the author's prose style. It seems kind of effortless, and I have not read a good procedural in some time now.
Sherry wrote: "Hi Suzy! This will be my 3rd overdrive audio book. I really enjoy them."Same here. I've become an audiobook nerd. I listen to books almost exclusively, and my local library and Audible have more than nurtured my addictions.
T. wrote: "Sherry wrote: "Hi Suzy! This will be my 3rd overdrive audio book. I really enjoy them."Same here. I've become an audiobook nerd. I listen to books almost exclusively, and my local library and Aud..."
Audiobooks rock! Are you listening to this one? Simon Prebble seems about perfect for narrating Diamond. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts when you finish the book, T.
T. wrote: "I'm only starting the book now, but I love the author's prose style. It seems kind of effortless, and I have not read a good procedural in some time now."Hi again - on another note, I just saw your comment in the Newbie thread. The book selections in this group run from the 15th of one month to the next, so you have until Feb 15th for this one!
I've heard that some books have bad narrators but I've been very lucky so far.
I love audiobooks, too, but didn't listen to The Last Detective - my library didn't have this on Overdrive. Simon Prebble is one of my favorite narrators. He has done some, if not all, of Charles Todd's Inspector Rutledge and Peter Robinson's Inspector Banks. I may use audible to listen to him do Diamond in on of the later books since the feedback on him is so good.
Finished listening to the audiobook, and the story was actually a bit boring for me. I figured out whodunnit long before the end. The ending scene was pretty touching, so left me feeling warm and fuzzy despite my overall irritation with the plot and characters.
I'm listening to My Man Jeeves now. Simon Pebble is the narrator and he's good. He's a good narrator.
Sherrie wrote: "Finished listening to the audiobook, and the story was actually a bit boring for me. I figured out whodunnit long before the end. The ending scene was pretty touching, so left me feeling warm and f..."Do you think you'll read/listen to more of this series? Diamond is of the old-fashioned variety of police procedural/mystery, so a little less thrilling than some other series. But I plan to give at least book 2 a try based on what others in the discussion have said.
The Mystery, Crime, and Thriller Group
Books mentioned in this topic
Diamond Solitaire (other topics)An Unsuitable Job for a Woman (other topics)
Cop To Corpse (other topics)
Cop To Corpse (other topics)
Cop To Corpse (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Peter Robinson (other topics)Charles Todd (other topics)
Peter Lovesey (other topics)
John Dickson Carr (other topics)
Peter Lovesey (other topics)
I discovered this book through the Mystery group challenge, and I was really impressed. I virtually fell in love with detective Diamond, as he reminds me of ..."
I felt similarly about Diamond - he is old school in a good way. At first I thought he was someone who did jump to a conclusion and then try to force it, but I learned that he was more complex than that. I'm looking forward to book two also!