Glens Falls (NY) Online Book Discussion Group discussion
ABOUT BOOKS AND READING
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What are you reading or what books have you read or heard about? (Part TWELVE) Ongoing general thread.
Jim wrote: "I just finished The Theory of Evolution: A History of Controversy by Edward J. Larson, a series of lectures from The Great Courses. It was an excellent history of it & a..."Jim, that sounds like a very interesting book! (There's quite a long description of it at Goodreads!) I will definitely give the audio version a try. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson was a great book when I was a kid. It was even better listening to it now that I'm a grandfather. An ageless classic. I gave it 5 stars in my review here:https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Jim wrote: "Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson was a great book when I was a kid. It was even better listening to it now that I'm a grandfather. An ageless classic. I gave it ..."Hmmm, maybe Eddie would enjoy listening to it [Treasure Island]. Our library has a lot of audio-versions. Jim, do you recommend any particular reader?
I thought the one in my edition was good, Joy. He's mentioned in the review & my review links to the correct version.
Jim wrote: "I thought the one in my edition was good, Joy. He's mentioned in the review & my review links to the correct version."Thanks, Jim. I ordered the one read by Neil Hunt [Treasure Island]:
http://pac.sals.edu/polaris/search/ti...
Once I stopped by the house Robert Louis Stevenson lived in when he wrote "Treasure Island." i used to love reading his poems when I was a child. I especially liked "The Old Lamplighter," and the one when he was abed. I forgot the title of that one. I also saw the house where he lived as a child. My Scottish friend said that was the window where the nursemaid would hold him up so he could see outside. He was sick a lot as a small child.
Nina wrote: "Once I stopped by the house Robert Louis Stevenson lived in when he wrote "Treasure Island." i used to love reading his poems when I was a child. I especially liked "The Old Lamplighter," and the o..."Nina, that's a great memory!
From among my quotation collection, here's a Stevenson quote:
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." ---Robert Louis Stevenson
PS-Here's the lamplighter poem you mentioned, Nina: http://www.bartleby.com/188/131.html
Oh Joy, you brought me joy this morning by sending me "The Lamplighter," poem and then I looked up some of his other titles that I had loved, "The Land of Counterpane, " and so many others. I had forgotten he wrote "home is the sailor..." etc. Oh I can still see myself standing in the rain and gazing up at the window where the nurse held him to see the lamplighter and where he pretended his games on the counterpane. The house where he lived when he wrote, "Treasure Island," was almost covered completely with ivy and the garden was luxurious with blooms.
Nina wrote: "Oh Joy, you brought me joy this morning by sending me "The Lamplighter," poem and then I looked up some of his other titles that I had loved, "The Land of Counterpane, " and so many others. I had f..."Nina, I found a photo of a house where Stevenson lived (17 Heriot Row, Edinburgh - house with the red door):
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...
http://lawartscult.osgoode.yorku.ca/w...
Also: https://i.rcahms.gov.uk/canmore/d/SC0...
https://canmore.org.uk/site/145573/ed... [Edinburgh, Inverleith Row, 5 Howard Place]
The following link takes you to an excellent page about Stevenson's various homes in Edinburgh: http://www.astoft2.co.uk/edinburgh/rl...
More thanks. Seeing the red door reminds me of standing with my Scottish friend outside of that house. She is no longer alive but the memory of us together in the rain and her pointing to Robert Louis's bedroom window will never fade thanks to your picture.
Today I am spending some time with Overview. I think I am finally getting the hang of ordering and sending back a book before the time is up. I accidentally ordered a Stephen King book that I thought from the title looked interested, Something about a Tall Tower and after perusing it a bit decided it definitely wasn't what I would like reading and so I was able to return it. I put a hold on a book my librarian daughter recommended, "Brit Marie Was Here." Then I did borrow, " i'll See You in Paris." Not that I've been there that often as only four times and not long at a time but still books with that setting do appeal to me. Also, I haven't checked out another book that a friend recommended, "The Golden Age," and I usually respect what she says is very good.
Nina wrote: "More thanks. Seeing the red door reminds me of standing with my Scottish friend outside of that house. She is no longer alive but the memory of us together in the rain and her pointing to Robert Lo..."I love a red door. Ed's folks' house had a red door. Here's a picture of it:
[CLICK ON THE THUMBNAIL.]That's me with our little son, his grandfather and his aunt. His grandfather was a member of the town's auxiliary police.
Nina wrote: "Today I am spending some time with Overview. I think I am finally getting the hang of ordering and sending back a book before the time is up. I accidentally ordered a Stephen King book that I thoug..."Nina, glad to hear that you're enjoying the "Overdrive" feature at your library. (I surmise you mean "Overdrive.")
I spend so much time at FunTrivia.com that I don't have time to read. :)
The Scarecrow by Michael Connelly was a great addition to his Harry Bosch universe, although this is the second book (The Poet was the first) to star the team of Jack McEvoy & Rachel Walling. The newspaper reporter & FBI agent are on the trail of another serial killer, but for all the similarities, it's a great read. I gave it 4 stars in my review here:https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Jim wrote: "The Scarecrow by Michael Connelly was a great addition to his Harry Bosch universe, although this is the second book (The Poet was the first) to star the ..."Thanks for posting, Jim. For some reason, I'm not attracted to murder mysteries. However, I must admit that years ago I did enjoy Lawrence Sanders's books which certainly were in that genre. Also books by Robert B Parker. I'll have to think about this. :) I notice that many of the kindle books offered as bargains by Amazon are about crime and murder and missing people. Seems to be a very popular genre. I wonder why. It's probably the suspense. I guess it all depends on the author's style, whether I like that kind of book or not.
PS-It also depends on whether there are too many twists and turns and too many characters to follow. It's a memory problem for me. I can't hold all that in my head.
Was your father in law a policeman? Yes, pretty front door and was that you with a child? Cute smiley child. Nice picture of his mother.
Nina wrote: "Was your father in law a policeman? Yes, pretty front door and was that you with a child? Cute smiley child. Nice picture of his mother."Yes, thank you, Nina. That was our first-born and me around 1961 or 1962. My FIL was a member of the town's auxiliary police. It was a volunteer organization.
I am watching the same Little Dorrit that you commented on Joy but didn't read your entire review as we are still watching it and was afraid it might give away some of the scenes was haven't seen yet. I will read it though after we finish the series.
Nina wrote: "I am watching the same Little Dorrit that you commented on Joy but didn't read your entire review as we are still watching it and was afraid it might give away some of the scenes was haven't seen y..."That's OK, Nina. It was mostly just a bunch of story descriptions, not much opinion on my part. So much sadness in those lives.
I googled and got the answers to my questions about Little Dorrit. But strangely Dickens book gave a different version than the movie. Maybe not so strange at that. In the book the errant husband's uncle felt a guilt because he urged the husband to give up the dancer and he left his money to Arthur's biological mother and her patron and the parton's offspring. Because the mother died and the uncle died in Venice the money should have gone to Amy...This seems like a convoluted plot to me.
In the BBC version the husband's father felt so bad about Arthur's biological mother that he decided to leave in his will to the child born on the same day as Arthur's mother died. That was Amy.
I'm wondering about a phrase in a book & thought someone in this group might know Latin. The book starts with a saying:Spiritus intus alit, totamaque infusa per artus
Mens agitat molem et magno se corpore miscet.
Vergil: Aeneid, VI, 726-7
That translates to:
A spirit within nourishes, is diffused throughout the totamaque
The great mind of the whole mass and mingles itself with a body.
I have no clue what a "totamaque" (Yes, that's the way it is spelled in the book.) is & neither does Google. Entity? Anyone have a clue?
Jim wrote: "I'm wondering about a phrase in a book & thought someone in this group might know Latin. The book starts with a saying:Spiritus intus alit, totamaque infusa per artus
Mens agitat molem et magno s..."
No clue here!
Nina wrote: "I googled and got the answers to my questions about Little Dorrit. But strangely Dickens book gave a different version than the movie. Maybe not so strange at that. In the book the errant husband's..."Nina, I admire your tenacity in following all those details. I remember thinking that it was an interesting plot as I watched the movie but I can't remember the details. It was several years ago that I watched it.
Today I finished listening to Pope Francis: From the End of the Earth to Rome by Wall Street Journal. Interesting guy & well done look at who he is as well as what his new position is like. I gave it a 4 star review here:https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I also listened to Macbeth by William Shakespeare. It was an audio production by the LA Theater Works. Not recommended if you're not familiar with it since there's no stage direction, but I really enjoyed it. I gave it a 5 star review here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Jim, thank you for posting. You've made some interesting choices.
Yes, thank you for posting. I happen to be a Catholic and I think you made good points in your analysis. An aside, do you know he refuses to wear new shoes and prefers his old sandals?
Glad you liked it, Nina. I didn't know that about his sandals, but I'm the same way. Might be a guy thing. One of my Docksiders has duct tape around it now since the leather has gone & my big toe is starting to come out after a decade of use. They're the pair I use around the farm. When they get too bad, the pair I use for work will replace them & I'll have to break down & buy a new pair for work.
Joy H. wrote: "Jim, thank you for posting. You've made some interesting choices."I like to vary the books I listen to, but I tend to go through phases where I'll get into one genre more than another. Right now I seem to be leaning toward science lectures & SF books, but that's just a trend.
A friend had originally told me I should read a book by Pope Francis, but I don't think I will after listening to this. Politicians always talk pretty or they wouldn't be one. It will be interesting to see what he accomplishes after this background, though.
I need to listen to more Shakespeare. It's been too long & I found that I had confused who said some of the lines in MacBeth. It's best if I do them fairly often so I can relearn & retain the vocabulary. A lot of it has come back, but I generally can't stop & look up anything I don't understand while I'm driving to work or mowing the fields.
I'm afraid I never was able to appreciate Shakespeare, except for occasional quotes.I'm listening to an audio CD of "The Oregon Trail: A New American Journey by Rinker Buck
I don't know how the pioneers did it!
Joy H. wrote: "I'm afraid I never was able to appreciate Shakespeare, except for occasional quotes...."I think we've had this conversation before. I only appreciate his writing because of a class which allowed me to understand the language. Perhaps there are some enhanced versions of his works at the library that would help you do the same. Listening & reading a guide at the same time would do it quickly. It only takes studying one or two & it all clicks pretty well. His quotes are good, but often taken out of context. His plays are full of unexpected zingers that no one ever quotes. The characters & plots are great. They're also short; only an hour or two.
I don't know how the pioneers did it either, but after reading about cities of the time, I'm not surprised they found the wilderness a better option for all its hardships. The cities were a Malthusian nightmare. The settled countryside had limited opportunities with no safety net & rigid, unforgiving, often corrupt society. They gave up a lot less than I used to think in facing the dangers of the wilds. At least there they had a hope of making something better for themselves & their families. There wasn't much hope in what they left behind for most.
Jim wrote: "I think we've had this conversation before. I only appreciate his writing because of a class..."Jim, I've tried to "get into" Shakespeare in the past. I even bought a copy of The Children's Shakespeare by E. Nesbit. It didn't do me any good.
As for the Oregon Trail, you've made some good points. However, there were many deaths while the pioneers were on the Oregon Trail. Many people died from disease caused by unsanitary conditions along the way (e.g., disease-laden water) and from accidents like falling under the wheels of the wagons. As I see it, for some people it was a choice between 2 evils, staying or going.
Jim wrote: "My question in #773 was answered in another group here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/..."Couldn't find it. I'm pretty good at searching and I didn't find the info at the page you linked.
Your question in #773 was:
===================================
I'm wondering about a phrase in a book & thought someone in this group might know Latin. The book starts with a saying:
Spiritus intus alit, totamaque infusa per artus
Mens agitat molem et magno se corpore miscet.
Vergil: Aeneid, VI, 726-7
That translates to:
A spirit within nourishes, is diffused throughout the totamaque
The great mind of the whole mass and mingles itself with a body.
I have no clue what a "totamaque" (Yes, that's the way it is spelled in the book.) is & neither does Google. Entity? Anyone have a clue?
====================================
Joy H. wrote: "Jim wrote: "My question in #773 was answered in another group here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/..."Couldn't find it. I'm pretty good at searching and I didn't find ..."
Hmmm... the answer is #77 in that topic & the link took me right to it. Here's a copy of the answer from Katie.
I can tell you that 'que' is a suffix or ending that means 'and'.
Also the 'mystery word' should really be 'totamque', 'totam' meaning 'the whole' or 'the entirety'.
Then one translation could be:
"The spirit nourishes the whole from within.
The mind, flowing throughout the limbs, awakens the lifeless body
And mingles within the great structure."
He is saying that the mind is more powerful than matter.
John Dryden translated it poetically rather than accurately as:
".............. one common soul
Inspires and feeds, and animates the whole.
This active mind, infus'd thro' all the space,
Unites and mingles with the mighty mass."
Joy H. wrote: "...As for the Oregon Trail, you've made some good points. However, there were many deaths while the pioneers were on the Oregon Trail. Many people died from disease caused by unsanitary conditions along the way (e.g., disease-laden water)"I was horrified by the conditions in cities & their water supply in the 1800s by 2 different books. There was The Ghost Map: The Story of London's Most Terrifying Epidemic - and How It Changed Science, Cities, and the Modern World which is about cholera in the 1840s & a YA book Blizzard: The Storm that Changed America about NYC in the 1880s. Both talk about how crowded conditions were for the poor & something about their sewage in the tenements of these cities.
The first is the most graphic & awful as it clinically discusses how people would throw chamber pots into the gutter. Others would scoop the water out & let it settle before drinking it. The cholera was actually from a well that was contaminated by runoff from the gutters, but London also drew water from the Thames often downstream from where other parts were dumping their sewage. In NYC, it was just as bad 40 years later.
In 1840, bacteria hadn't been discovered yet & people thought miasma or bad smells were the cause of disease. While some knew about bacteria by the time of the blizzard, it takes time to change infrastructure & habits. Many still got their water from the Central Park pond which was disgusting.
People were also living with entire families in single rooms with shared facilities, sometimes by the entire floor. It wasn't unusual to rent out a few square feet in a room to someone else so they could sleep.
What the poor had to endure to get work & keep it was awful, too. 'Blizzard' spent some time on that & how hard the jobs were. Crippling injuries meant not working & either begging or relying on family to take care of a person. The employers rarely paid much, if anything. There was such a glut of labor they didn't have to worry about it.
I'll agree that it was a choice of evils, but as awful as the trek was across the US, I don't really see it as worse than where they came from & at least it held out the possibility of a better life. Too many generations had lived & died in the squalor of cities. They knew what their fate was there.
Independence MO was the dividing line of the Oregon Trail and the Santa Fe Trail. There is a fascinating museum there named, "Two Trails," that goes into some of the hardships endured by the people going on these trails. On of my ancestors/third great uncle and his wife and four children were on the Oregon trail when two of their children died. It seems they actually left two of their children behind in MO with their aunt and uncle. I once visited their former home and met their descendents and there are numerous signs depicting the trails all about our area. Some of the ruts from the covered wagons are still visable.
Another subject/I was reading an interview of the woman who is head of the choosing the prize winner of the National Book Awards. In the interview she was asked how to tell the difference between a a so called literally book and one of the genre. She answered by saying often a book for the genre styles was ever bit as good and what is considered literary type and she gave Ray Bradbury as an example of excellent writing who got his messages across and also was a brilliant writer.
I had to read Shakespeare in college and I really came to understand it many years later when the Shakespeare in the Park plays were performed across the street from where we were living at the time. Was it just that it was audio that helped?
Jim wrote: "Hmmm... the answer is #77 in that topic & the link took me right to it. Here's a copy of the answer from Katie. ..."Thanks, Jim.
Your link took me to page 1 of that topic.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
The answer was on page 2 of that topic:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
That's why I couldn't find it.
Jim wrote: "I was horrified by the conditions in cities & their water supply in the 1800s by 2 different books...."Yes, Jim, it certainly is horrifying. A good word to describe it!
Nina wrote: "Independence MO was the dividing line of the Oregon Trail and the Santa Fe Trail. There is a fascinating museum there named, "Two Trails," that goes into some of the hardships endured by the people..."That's interesting, Nina. Every time they mentioned Kansas in the CD about the Oregon trail, I thought of you. :) It's amazing that your ancestors were on that trail!
Nina wrote: "... I was reading an interview of the woman who is head of the choosing the prize winner of the National Book Awards. In the interview she was asked how to tell the difference between a a so called literally book and one of the genre. ..."Nina, below are 3 websites which talk about: "Literary Fiction vs. Genre Fiction" .
1. http://www.novel-writing-help.com/lit...
2. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-...
3. http://www.writing-world.com/fiction/...
As you can see from what is at those links, it cannot be summed up in a few sentences. I've given up trying to come up with a concise answer!
BELOW ARE SOME QUOTES ON THE SUBJECT):
"... what else sets a "serious" book apart? In a nutshell, it is this: Literary fiction is more character-driven and less concerned with a fast-paced plot than genre fiction." FROM: http://www.novel-writing-help.com/lit... - By Harvey Chapman
“Good writing is good writing. In many ways, it’s the audience and their expectations that define a genre. A reader of literary fiction expects the writing to illuminate the human condition, some aspect of our world and our role in it. A reader of genre fiction likes that, too, as long as it doesn’t get in the way of the story.” -Rosemary Clement-Moore
"I don't mean that literary fiction is better than genre fiction, On the contrary; novels can perform two functions and most perform only one." -Mark Haddon
"It's never really easy to be successful as a writer when you're trying to write literary fiction. You've already limited your readership limited by that choice." -Chitra Banerjee Divakaruni
"It's perceived as an accolade to be published as a 'literary' writer, but, actually, it's pompous and it's fake. Literary fiction is often nothing more than a genre in itself." -Neil Cross
PS - I think the following guidelines for "Literary Fiction" make sense. They are summed up (by a fellow named Harvey Chapman) as: THE FOUR CHARACTERISTICS OF LITERARY FICTION:1. Character Comes Before Plot
2. Literary Novels Are More "Meaningful"
3. "Fine Writing" Is Essential
4. In Literary Fiction, Anything Goes
See details here: http://www.novel-writing-help.com/lit...
Joy, I read topics in reverse date order with the latest showing first, so that might have been the issue. My link was supposed to take you directly to that message, though. Glad you found it, anyway.
Nina, 'just' audio for Shakespeare isn't great unless I already know the play pretty well. I have a tin ear, so most men sound too much alike for me to distinguish between them easily. Ditto for the ladies. There are some exceptions, but without any visual indication or narrated stage direction, exchanges can get confusing.That being said, hearing Shakespeare's words spoken is often better than just reading them. I try to read them aloud in my head, a different process than I use in reading most things. Still, a trained actor can wring pacing & tone out of his lines better than I usually can.
In other words, it's not a simple question or answer. I don't remember too many of his plays that well any more & my library doesn't seem to have many by the LA Theater Group, either. I looked for A Midsummer Night's Dream, Julius Ceaser, Antony and Cleopatra, & The Merchant of Venice without finding them. I did find Hamlet & Othello, but I'm not terribly interested in listening to them. Depressing.
I don't remember As You Like It, Twelfth Night, or King Lear well enough to listen to them without reading along. I might remember the Henrys, especially the first well enough, but not The Merry Wives of Windsor, although I do love Falstaff. Haven't looked for any of them, yet. (This is sort of a note to remind me.)
Jim wrote: "Joy, I read topics in reverse date order with the latest showing first, so that might have been the issue. My link was supposed to take you directly to that message, though. Glad you found it, anyway."Oh, I see, Jim! Your page 1 was my page 2. LOL
Funny, I like to read the topics in forward order. I think I'd get confused reading them in reverse order.
On the other hand, I like my email listed with the latest at the top, which is really reverse order.
(I can never remember the meanings of "ascending" and "descending" orders. Those words confuse me.) :)
Jim wrote: "Nina, 'just' audio for Shakespeare isn't great unless I already know the play pretty well. I have a tin ear, so most men sound too much alike for me to distinguish between them easily. Ditto for th..."Jim, you are so well-read, it just bowls me over! (That's the first time I've ever written the word "bowls" with that meaning.) I guess the word is related to the game of bowling.
Speaking of using words, I recently realized that I didn't know how to spell "baling" wire. I spelled it with "ai"until Eddie reminded me that they tie "bales" of hay with it. Duh!
I never thought about the book covers being different from Literary novels from the genre type. I did know about the former being character driven and the latter plot driven. Interesting isn't it?
Glens Falls (NY) Online Book Discussion Group
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