To Kill A Mockingbird Discussion, Part Two/Book as a Whole *SPOILERS*

[Alexw]

Better to wait until everyone has finished as that causes better discussions.

[Savita]

I have finished chapter 22 . Sad and ugly incident ! ☆☆Beware Spoilers (view spoiler)[ Bob Ewell spat on Atticus ' face and told him he'd get him if it took the rest of his life . 😠
How civilized Atticus remained in the aftermath ! And so unperturbed ! At first I was anxious and frightened for Atticus . But , on second thoughts , the courage and calm that he showed must come from the straight , fair road that he was following unwaveringly , itself the source of his great strength . The brave die but once , the cowards die a thousand deaths . Kudos to Atticus once again ! 👏 (hide spoiler)] ☆☆
This novel is very uplifting and enlightening 🕯

[Paula W]

Savita wrote: "I have finished chapter 22 . Sad and ugly incident “

I think you are the only one of us doing the buddy read who hasn’t finished yet, so I dont feel like I need to place a spoiler tag here (sorry if I’m wrong about that!) *edited to say I WAS WRONG I think there is one other. So I will tag it appropriately.

(view spoiler)[But to me, spitting in someone’s face has to be the worst insult that can be given to anyone. Slap me or punch me and I can fight back. Call me names, I can ignore that. Spitting in the face of someone is very very personal, and… I think the word I want to use is… degrading. For both parties. It is a distasteful thing to do and probably shameful for the person it happens to. If it happened to me, it would be that thing that I thought about and obsessed about while lying in bed at night, trying to sleep but reliving the sheer embarrassment of it. (hide spoiler)]

[Michaela]

I´m far from finished either (too many other books to read aside), so I´d be glad about spoilers, thanks!

[Michaela]

Two points that came to my mind concerning the first chapters of Part Two: (view spoiler)[Scout moving the men who threaten Atticus to leave the place only by being social, and the visit of the kids with Cal to her church which seemed positive to me but not to "Aunty". She seems to be a negative person. (hide spoiler)]

[Paula W]

Michaela wrote: "I´m far from finished either (too many other books to read aside), so I´d be glad about spoilers, thanks!"

Yes, you were the other one I realized hadn’t finished yet so I edited before you saw it, I hope!

[Savita]

Michaela wrote: "Two points that came to my mind concerning the first chapters of Part Two: [spoilers removed]"

Oh , yes , I agree with you . ☆☆Beware Spoilers (view spoiler)[ Aunt Alexandra is a rather negative person . She lacks her brother's ( Atticus ) rare wisdom , compassion and maturity . I also like the way Atticus handles his children ... just the right mix of dignity , love , leniency , freedom and firmness . You'll like Atticus more and more as the story progresses . (hide spoiler)] ☆☆

[Savita]

Paula W wrote: "Savita wrote: "I have finished chapter 22 . Sad and ugly incident “

I think you are the only one of us doing the buddy read who hasn’t finished yet, so I dont feel like I need to place a spoiler t..."

Yes , you certainly have a point , Paula , about the ☆☆Beware Spoilers (view spoiler)[ spitting . It’s just horrible ... Ugh !! 😠 . But , I think , if you are confident about the road that you've taken , and know that God is with you there , a calm confidence and
maturity does set in , and you feel a little sorry for the opposite party , floundering away in sheer darkness 🤔 . What do you think , Paula ? (hide spoiler)] ☆☆

[Paula W]

Savita wrote: "Paula W wrote: "Savita wrote: "I have finished chapter 22 . Sad and ugly incident “

I think you are the only one of us doing the buddy read who hasn’t finished yet, so I dont feel like I need to p..."

Okay, so I guess this is the point where lose a ton of friends and followers.

I dont believe in a god. Or GOD. But if I did, I don’t think a benevolent being would expect me to be mature and okay with someone spitting in my face. And no, I absolutely would not feel sorry for the person who spit on me. I would want to punch them in the nose and hopefully break it.

[Savita]

Paula W wrote: "Savita wrote: "Paula W wrote: "Savita wrote: "I have finished chapter 22 . Sad and ugly incident “

I think you are the only one of us doing the buddy read who hasn’t finished yet, so I dont feel l..."

Hmm .... okay , Paula , I get your feeling .

[Savita]

Paula , how do you like Atticus ?

[Paula W]

Savita wrote: "Paula , how do you like Atticus ?"

I love Atticus. I think he is the person we all want to be. I dont know anyone that kind, that good, that patient in real life - someone who never loses their temper and always does the right thing and gives others the benefit of the doubt when they might not deserve it. He’s almost too much, you know? Not quite too much, but almost.

[Michaela]

I read till ch.22, and found the trial very different from what ours would be nowadays, f.e. the treating of Myella, (view spoiler)[an obvious rape victim, even though it turns out it was probably her father who treated her like this. She´s also afraid to talk about it all when her father´s present, besides all the folk watching. I also wondered that children were allowed there, only depending on the parents´ decision. (hide spoiler)]

[Paula W]

Michaela wrote: "Thanks Cyndia! I meant the given name of course. I remember it became common among alternative parents here to let their children call them by their given names about 20 years ago, but it´s not don..."

Ooh, I just saw this comment and want to respond. It is not normal (in my experience) for children to call their parents by their given names. But for the Finch family, I think it is a sign of the utmost respect. They call him what everyone else calls him, and he allows it. Atticus is raising children in a home where they are welcome to ask questions and do some critical thinking. Very different from the “children should be seen and not heard” idea. Notice, though, that the children often refer to him as Atticus when they talk to themselves or others, but mostly call him Sir when speaking to him directly.

[Savita]

Paula W wrote: "Savita wrote: "Paula , how do you like Atticus ?"

I love Atticus. I think he is the person we all want to be. I dont know anyone that kind, that good, that patient in real life - someone who never..."

Yes , Atticus is a lovely person. His personality has influenced me greatly .... like other literary figures : Melanie ( Gone with the Wind ) , Beth ( Little Women ) , the amazing Bronte sisters and so on .... I hope to inculcate at least some of Atticus ' impressive qualities in myself .

[Savita]

Michaela wrote: "I read till ch.22, and found the trial very different from what ours would be nowadays, f.e. the treating of Myella, [spoilers removed]"

Hmm .... yes .

[Savita]

I have finished chapter 24 / page 262 . Good Lord ! They have ☆☆Beware Spoilers (view spoiler)[ shot down Tom Robinson as he was trying to escape from the prison !! Seventeen bullets . I was actually waiting for justice to happen after an appeal went to the higher courts . Now everything has ended in this terrible manner . I am angry , shaken and disappointed by this turn of events . An innocent man had to die ... and in such a tortured , miserable way ? Let's see what , if anything , happens further . Let's see what happens to the Ewells .... will retribution , human or Divine , reach them ? Or will they go scot free ? (hide spoiler)] ☆☆

[Michaela]

I finished the book today, and a lot is happening in the last chapters!

[Savita]

Michaela wrote: "I finished the book today, and a lot is happening in the last chapters!"

I see . I am very curious and interested in knowing what happens after chapter 24 . ☆☆Beware Spoilers ( for other potential readers who may be reading along ) (view spoiler)[ Will there be justice for Tom Robinson ? Will it be made clear who's the guilty party , and will they be punished ? Almost everyone is so indifferent towards Tom Robinson , I don't know if a miracle can happen 🤔 . (hide spoiler)] ☆☆

[Savita]

I am reading chapter 28 / page 280 . I am still wondering about ☆☆Beware Spoilers (view spoiler)[ posthumous justice for Tom Robinson . Scout says in chapter 25 : Atticus had used every tool available to fee men to save Tom Robinson , but in the secret courts of men's hearts Atticus had no case . Tom Robinson was a dead man the minute Mayella opened her mouth and screamed .
The story wanders on with trivial events . I am still waiting for the Tom Robinson thread to surface . Surely the end cannot be so dismal ?! Oh , for a ray of hope , a better image of humanity 🤔 Are Atticus and Mr Deas the only ones who care ? (hide spoiler)] ☆☆

[Paula W]

Savita wrote: "I am reading chapter 28 / page 280 . I am still wondering about ☆☆Beware Spoilers posthumous justice for Tom Robinson . Scout says in chapter 25 : Atticus had used every tool available to fee men..."

I’m dying for you to finish. Because I think you will really appreciate the last few chapters.

[Savita]

Paula W wrote: "Savita wrote: "I am reading chapter 28 / page 280 . I am still wondering about ☆☆Beware Spoilers posthumous justice for Tom Robinson . Scout says in chapter 25 : Atticus had used every tool availab..."

Oh , I see ! Yes , even Michaela mentioned that a lot of things happen in the last few chapters . I have got 30 more pages to go and I will read with renewed hope and great interest . I should be able to finish the book in 2 ( or maximum 3 days ) .

[Savita]

I have finished this overwhelmingly beautiful book and I would like to give it 10 shining stars 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟 . I had almost decided to skim through the last 30 pages , thinking that the Tom Robinson thread had ended in chapter 24 itself , and I was very disappointed . The comments by Paula and Michaela made me change my mind and I am very glad .
I feel ( probably Paula may not agree ) that ☆☆Beware Spoilers (view spoiler)[ Divine retribution finally caught up with Bob Ewell . He had lived a lewd , lustful life, a completely uncivilized human being . In Chapter 3 Scout says , " The Ewells were people , but they lived like animals . " . He had no compunction about sending an innocent man to the gallows . He got away in the local human court . But , further 🙄 , he viciously attacked Atticus ' two very young children . I think it was Atticus ' beautiful karmas ( deeds and behavior ) that saved the lives of his children that night . It must have been Divine retribution that finally killed this sickeningly horrible man . An English proverb says: He who digs a pit for others , falls in himself . Divine Justice does catch up slowly but surely . , in this very lifetime , or else in another punishing lifetime which one comes back to serve . (hide spoiler)] ☆☆
Will continue the message shortly .

[Cynda]

There is a term Southerners of a certain age know: comeuppance: Bob Ewell got his comeuppance.

[Savita]

Cynda wrote: "There is a term Southerners of a certain age know: comeuppance: Bob Ewell got his comeuppance."

Yes . I looked up comeuppance on the Google . It means retribution or nemesis . He got a fate that he deserved .
I feel sorry for such a waste of a human life . He had had no education . He had no mentor or spiritual guide to show him a way out of the filth in which he was living . It was such a waste of a human life .

[Savita]

Msg 123 contd : ☆☆Beware Spoilers (view spoiler)[ Boo was a huge surprise - a pleasant and totally unexpected one . I wonder if it was Boo who killed Bob ? Atticus and Sheriff Tate were arguing between the possibilities of Jem or self injury . But , I suppose , it could also have been Boo .
I loved the way Tate Sheriff brushed away Atticus ' argument . 😊

The closing paragraphs were so beautiful ..... Atticus , the deeply loving and caring single parent :
As he put Scout to sleep , she said , " Atticus , he was nice. " . He replied , " Most people are , Scout, when you finally see them . "
Then he went to Jem's room . He would be there all night , and he would be there when Jem waked up in the morning . (hide spoiler)] ☆☆

[Savita]

Thanks to Michaela for choosing such a beautiful book for a Buddy Read ! And thanks to all the members participating in this read .... it was a truly enjoyable read 😊 ! Alexw , would you like to put your take on this remarkable book ?

[Cynda]

Savita some books are such a revelation that one is envious of those reading a book for the first time. The closest thing to reading again for the first time is to watch and help someone else read for the first time. Thank you for sharing your first read of this novel with us.

[Savita]

Cynda wrote: "Savita some books are such a revelation that one is envious of those reading a book for the first time. The closest thing to reading again for the first time is to watch and help someone else read ..."

True , Cynda , it is one of those lovely books where one gets envious of those for whom it is the first read 😊 ! I loved and enjoyed this Buddy Read so very much ! The character I will remember the most in this book is Atticus . I learnt so much from him about handling life and the people ( especially the more difficult ones ) around us in such a beautiful manner . Such a good insight into the human mind ! Such maturity , compassion and wisdom ! And like Paula said , in a different way , Atticus is very rare but not non existent .
Alexw has not yet shared his thoughts with us .

[Alexw]

Symbolically, just as the mad dog was killed by Atticus, Bo killed Ewell to protect Atticus's family. One has to wonder why Scout never saw Bo again after he saved her life. (Page 320) What do you think happened to all the children of Ewell after he died?
No attorney asks a question that he doesn't know the answer to and if would have been easy to show that after Ewell's wife died that his kids were conceived by incest (if in fact they were) but the real point of the story is about racial discrimination. One has to wonder is the kids were from incest if that would have changed the verdict?
I truly enjoyed this buddy read and thanks for all your intelligent comments.

[Paula W]

I did not know until I was older, but the finch (another songbird) and the mockingbird are the animals that first gave Darwin the idea for his book The Origin of Species / The Voyage of the Beagle. He noticed the wild diversity of these birds in the Galápagos Islands with each variety confined to a specific area or island, and this brought on the idea of the evolution of a species that had a common ancestor. I love that our protagonist family are named Finch. I’m sure this might have some deeper meaning, but maybe it doesn’t.

[Cynda]

I am sure "Finch" does have meaning. Many if the other names have significane: Atticus, Calpurnia, Scout, Boo. . . . Thanks for pointing out the significance.

[Cynda]

Cheryl--I hope you don't mind me naming you--brought up a good point that sometimes adults who read this novel TKMB.as young people speak of this novel as being a simple story, something not quite worthy of study.

Long ago a psychology instructor at the university where I taught chatted about an article she wrote about Arthur "Boo" Radley being mentally challenged. Suddenly my understanding of the story shifted. I understood that Scout understood the situation quite right when she sensed herself walking with a man who admired her--I think she speaks of him being her "beau," at least in those few minutes.

[Savita]

Alexw wrote: "Symbolically, just as the mad dog was killed by Atticus, Bo killed Ewell to protect Atticus's family. One has to wonder why Scout never saw Bo again after he saved her life. (Page 320) What do you ..."

TKAM was published in 1960 , and reliable paternity tests became possible in the 1960s .... so , I suppose , a few years after TKAM publication . But , you've made a very significant point , Alexw . Paternity testing may have turned the verdict of the court .

[Savita]

Paula W wrote: "I did not know until I was older, but the finch (another songbird) and the mockingbird are the animals that first gave Darwin the idea for his book [book:The Origin of Species / The Voyage of the B..."

Oh , this is very interesting 🤔 .

[Savita]

Cynda wrote: "Cheryl--I hope you don't mind me naming you--brought up a good point that sometimes adults who read this novel TKMB.as young people speak of this novel as being a simple story, something not quite ..."

Oh , I see , so Boo was probably mentally challenged ?! Hmm ..... maybe that's why the Radley family kept him hidden away ( as would be in those days ) .

[Cynda]

Many people did institutionalize their mentally challenged family members. Mr Radley refused to send Boo to an institution, so the sheriff locked up Boo in the courthouse basement. Later maybe when Old Man Bradley died, younger Mr Radley, brother to Boo, kept Boo at home.

[Savita]

Cynda wrote: "Many people did institutionalize their mentally challenged family members. Mr Radley refused to send Boo to an institution, so the sheriff locked up Boo in the courthouse basement. Later maybe when..."

Cynda , thank you for mentioning the above details . I had read these details , but I seem to have forgotten them ! 😒

[Cynda]

When we receive new information, such as Boo is mentally challenge, then discarded information can become important, such as Scout saw, really saw, that Boo loved her.

[Savita]

Cynda wrote: "When we receive new information, such as Boo is mentally challenge, then discarded information can become important, such as Scout saw, really saw, that Boo loved her."

I will have to reread this part again , Cynda , then I will get back to you 🤔

[Cynda]

Sure Savita. But I wasn't trying to get you to see that particular passage. I was just saying that scene at Jem's bedside and the walking of Boo home spoke to me.

[Savita]

Cynda wrote: "Sure Savita. But I wasn't trying to get you to see that particular passage. I was just saying that scene at Jem's bedside and the walking of Boo home spoke to me."

I reread that part again , Cynda , and you're very right . It's a strange, sweet passage and , around page 305 , Scout describes how Boo held on to her hand and .... showed no sign of letting me go . There is a touch of a child like behavior in Boo . Like a big adult child .... kind of mixed up feelings.

[Cynda]

Exactly!

[Savita]

Thanks , Cynda ! This is another subtle section which I didn't really register .

What a surprise Boo's presence was in the scene after the nasty incident ! I almost fell down from my chair 😳 !

[Cynda]

Boo is called Boo because he is disappeared, as Atticus indicates, and perhaps because he gets himself out of the house at night, follows people, lurks around people. Seems that Boo was out and about on the night that Jem and Scout participated in the school pageant. Boo followed the children home, watching over them, then having opportunity to help them. Boo loves Scout which means he also loves Jem. Boo is the one who carries Jem home. He watches from the edge of Jem's room, out of the way. Since he saved the life of Jem, Atticus will not throw out Boo and will let him stay by the wall. When Scout gets home, she finds Boo in Jem's room. . . . .Remember Scout was encased and protected by her costume. Jem was much more vulnerable, was hurt, unable to defend himself any further, so Boo carried Jem home.

[Savita]

What a miserable life for poor Boo ! But better than being instutionalized 🤔 .

[Cynda]

Good question.