November 2015 Group Read - Lest Darkness Fall

[Jo]

This is to discuss Lest Darkness Fall by Lyon Sprague de Camp.

[Jo]

I know nothing whatsoever about this book or author which is a nice way to read a book as I have no pre-conceptions at all! I will start reading this one once I finish That Hideous Strength which is the third in the trilogy from last months read. Hopefully I can start next weekend.

[Kate]

I also am unfamiliar with the author - I've ordered the book and, in the meantime, likewise will be finishing the trilogy ^_^

[Ronald]

I nominated the book without having read it. I'm at page 48, and I find that the story moves at a brisk pace, its accurate in terms of technology, and amusing at times. I hope others like the book.

From what I can tell, L. Sprague de Camp was quite learned. He had a scientific degree and wrote non fiction books such as _The Ancient Engineers_.

[Jim]

I've never read much of deCamp's stuff aside from the Conan books he edited with Carter for Lancer. I cut my teeth on them & loved them. I still think he did a great job fleshing out REH's stories, although I seem to be in the minority. This should be an interesting read.

[Leo]

I'm in, I found a copy. Start reading in a few days.

[Jo]

I started reading today and it moves quite quickly. I've only read the first 20 or so pages but it seems like it's going to be a fun read.

[Buck]

I started it last night, but fell asleep after just a few pages, so I may start over again this evening.

[Kate]

I just got my copy and will start reading this evening - looks like an interesting read ^_^

[Leo]

After 50 p: this is quite different from the only other book I read from the author. The continent makers is sf, but how do you call this? Anyway, interesting enough to keep reading.

[Ronald]

Well, the book is alternative history. Alternative history can be science fiction, but it need not be.

Because the protagonist travelled back in time, it is science fiction too.

[Buck]

I never read L. Sprague de Camp before. About 2/3 through. Lest Darkness Fall is not my usual fare, but I have read recently a couple of books with similar premise: Timeline by Michael Crichtonand Doomsday Book by Connie Willis. In those the protagonist went back to the 14th century, whereas de Camp's is in the 6th. And de Camp's is markedly more lighthearted. As I said, not my usual cup of tea, but I'm enjoying it well enough.

[Leo]

Thanks Ronald. I looked it up on wikipedia where this book in fact was mentioned as an example of ah.

[Buck]

Padway told his cohort that in America they would sometimes stuff ballot boxes or use floaters. I'm not familiar with that term. What is meant by a floater in rigging an election?

[Jo]

Buck wrote: "Padway told his cohort that in America they would sometimes stuff ballot boxes or use floaters. I'm not familiar with that term. What is meant by a floater in rigging an election?"

A floater is somebody that is paid to vote several times in multiple places in the same election.

[Buck]

Well, that was alright, I guess. I'm sure I would have enjoyed it more if I had an inkling of knowledge of the history of military campaigns in sixth century Italy. It's alternative history, and in order for ti to be meaningful, one needs to have a knowledge of the actual history it's the alternative to. Other than the onset of Dark Ages, (or as they were referred to once in the book - The Age of Faith) my knowledge of the history of that period is woefully lacking.

[Jo]

I probably would never have read this if it hadn't been the group book but I thought it was an enjoyable read. It was nicely paced and very amusing in places. I enjoyed the main character and his trials and tribulations in trying to get by in the sixth century. I'm not sure I could have done half as well, my knowledge of history is too poor!

[Jo]

I've been thinking a lot about alternate history books as I couldn't think of many that i've read other than The Man in the High Castle by Philip K Dick. I found the article below on the best ones and I have only read two more from their list The Iron Dream by Norman Spinrad and Fatherland by Robert Harris - in fact all three have a similar theme. Saying that I do have The Years of Rice and Salt that has been sat on my to read shelf for ages.

Anyway Lest Darkness Fall is ranked the seventh best by them and the 4th best in the public vote.

http://bestsciencefictionbooks.com/be...

[Ronald]

I finished Lest Darkness Fall. I plan to put up a 4 star review in a few days.

It was one of the few novels that gave me food for thought. The novel made me ponder the social/political effects of technology.

[Leo]

Also finished it. It was a nice read, I agree with Buck that I would like to have had more knowledge of that time and especially the balance of powers in that area. Anyway, a wonderful book concerning it is written a long time ago. Mr. Sprague de Camp was a very creative writer.

[Martinw]

I joined this group spontanously and first had to obtain a copy of this book. (I found an omnibus edition L. Sprague de Camp SF Gateway Omnibus: Lest Darkness Fall, Rogue Queen, The Tritonian Ring)
So far, I can say it paid to join the group, as I heard about this book here. I am not very far in the book yet, but find it very amusing and interesting. (Easy to read, too. English is not my first language, so this is important for me too.)

[Jo]

Martinw wrote: "I joined this group spontanously and first had to obtain a copy of this book. (I found an omnibus edition L. Sprague de Camp SF Gateway Omnibus: Lest Darkness Fall, Rogue Queen, The Tritonian..."</i>

I really enjoyed this one, it's nice to read SF with some humor in it. This one was definitely an easier read than our two previous books [book:Out of the Silent Planet and Metropolis although both of these had merits.

I would willingly read L. Sprague de Camp again but he will have to be added to my to read list as I have a huge backlog of books to read.

[Kate]

I enjoyed the read - my introduction to L. Sprague de Camp. Imaginative and fun alternative history, where the author entertains with both science fiction and comedy. I think his choice of period works well, since most of us have only a rudimentary knowledge of the era, it's easier to suspend disbelief when Padway introduces future technology and weaponry. That he changes the path of history, yet neither turns to dust nor forgets the memories of his former life, calls to mind ley lines, time travel. A fun read ^_^

[Jo]

Seems like this book is universally liked! Only slightly negative comments are not about the book per se, more about lack of knowledge of the period. A good choice.

[Ronald]

I got into a discussion about this book on another SF forum and the question arose as to the plausibility of the stuff that Martin Padway introduced "ahead of time." I'm interested in what members here think.

I pointed out that Martin Padway was well aware that some things were not possible yet, such as the automobile and electrical devices. I also pointed out that printing, introduced by Padway in the novel, was done by the Chinese before 6th Century Rome, when the novel was set.

The other side in the discussion mentioned the story "The Man Who Came Early" by Poul Anderson which is considered a response to _Lest Darkness Fall_. Wikipedia article about the story here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man...

[Buck]

It's been a long tome since I've read any Poul Anderson - I can't remember what of his I've read. Having read Lest Darkness Fall, the Man Who Came Early might be a good p[lace to restart.

[Jo]

I read Tau Zero recently by Poul Anderson and also The Broken Sword both good but only the former sci-fi. The man who came early looks interesting, i'd like to read it but it doesn't seem so easy to find a copy of, it's only 28 pages and only seems available in anthologies. I probably just need to look a bit harder.

[Jo]

After looking around a bit more it seems that The man who came early is in the public domain and can be found here if anyone wants to read it:

http://www.classicly.com/download-the...

[Buck]

Jo wrote: "After looking around a bit more it seems that The man who came early is in the public domain and can be found here if anyone wants to read it:

http://www.classicly.com/download-the......"

Thanks Jo.
I didn't know about Classicly. It says on their website: "Download for free. We have both Kindle and PDF formats- and there's no limits on downloading." Terrific!.

[Cheryl]

I've finally read this. I gave it three stars, just because I only just barely enjoyed it. Here's my review:

Not my kind of thing, I have to admit. It does make me want to reread Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court," though. I also would recommend this to fans of Terry Pratchett. I wonder what historians make of it... I know that I have no idea whether the politics and military strategies make any sense.

I do appreciate that Padway couldn't miraculously solve every engineering problem he set himself. And that he did make a fool of himself a time or two, and that he relied extensively on friends. Still, of course, he's too able to be believable.

I can definitely see why so many others like it. It's definitely funny (consider "that's the closest thing we have to [insert listener's religion here] in my country), and fun, and exciting (I assume, for those into that kind of thing). It even has a few lovely turns of phrase, like the description of Ravenna including "the thin merciless song of the mosquitoes."

And it's not unbearably sexist, not racist either as far as I can see.

I would like to know where de Camp got the title. And Padway's name, come to think of it.

[Cheryl]

I've finally read it. I only just barely enjoyed it. My review:

Not my kind of thing, I have to admit. It does make me want to reread Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court," though. I also would recommend this to fans of Terry Pratchett. I wonder what historians make of it... I know that I have no idea whether the politics and military strategies make any sense.

I do appreciate that Padway couldn't miraculously solve every engineering problem he set himself. And that he did make a fool of himself a time or two, and that he relied extensively on friends. Still, of course, he's too able to be believable.

I can definitely see why so many others like it. It's definitely funny (consider "that's the closest thing we have to [insert listener's religion here] in my country), and fun, and exciting (I assume, for those into that kind of thing). It even has a few lovely turns of phrase, like the description of Ravenna including "the thin merciless song of the mosquitoes."

And it's not unbearably sexist, not racist either as far as I can see.

I would like to know where de Camp got the title. And Padway's name, come to think of it.

[Cheryl]

The Man Who Came Early
A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court

[Cheryl]

Buck wrote: "Jo wrote: "After looking around a bit more it seems that The man who came early is in the public domain and can be found here if anyone wants to read it:

http://www.classicly.com/download-the...-..."

That link now gives a 404.

[Buck]

Cheryl wrote:

http://www.classicly.com/down..."

That link now gives a 404.

Apparently, Classicly is now an app for iOS devices. The app costs $2.99, but the ebooks and audiobooks are free, or so it says.

With 10 ratings, it gets 2.3/5

[Cheryl]

I did find it elsewhere, and enjoyed it quite a bit.