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What is Space Opera?
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R. Michael
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Nov 03, 2015 04:43PM
I don't think that's a useful distinction. I like stories which are distinctly emotional and evocative of the human condition, what others might call melodrama. But I also like depth and complication in the narrative behind it.
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Melodrama is an exaggeration beyond what's considered normal emotionally, or sensationalized. Like any description it has a spectrum - fluffy edges. What one reader would call melodrama, another wouldn't. I gather there's a "new space opera" genre too from an anthology I saw recently. My old space opera was melodramatic, to me anyway, the new Space Opera quite possibly is less so.
I just found the wikipedia definition and it agrees on the melodramatic content. "Space opera is a subgenre of science fiction that emphasizes space warfare, melodramatic adventure, set mainly or entirely in outer space, and often chivalric romance."
Doesn't mean they are right either but it does show it's a fairly common opinion.
Sorry. I just noticed that quote is in the first post on this thread.
To put what I said in better perspective - I didn't see Dune as melodramatic.
The original Dune, maybe not. It was actually rather a bit grim. Some of the later ones, though... ehhhhhh.....
James White Does the 'Sector General' series by James White count as space opera? One of my favourite space series!
Hi, folks, I'm a new member to this group. It's nice to meet you all :-)I suppose my own definition of "space opera" is a work in progress. Thank you so much for steering me to this thread, Anna -- it's truly an eye-opener!
Incidentally, a question for all: How would you categorize stories that are set entirely in the (relatively) near future, in our own solar system, such as many of Ben Bova's books -- Mars or The Asteroid Wars series, for example? If not space opera, then what subgenre of sci-fi would they fall into? Or are they space opera? At first, based on one of your comments in this thread, Oni, I thought perhaps they might be safely labelled as "planetary romance," but after reading a wiki article on that genre, I am not so sure; planetary romances seem to have a distinctly fantastic element to them, such as Edgar Rice Burroughs's Mars stuff, etc.
Every so often this question comes up on the facebook space opera group. Rather than quote an official source, I'll just give my definition. Space Opera is any scifi that features space ships and an epic adventure of some sort. It helps if other standard scifi tropes are added (planets, aliens, robots, galactic empires, space battles, mysterious alien artifacts, mining colonies, penal planets, bars, bounty hunters, pirates, mercenaries, star fleet, space stations, etc etc) but these are not essential.
I distinguish between two types of space opera: low brow or cheesy, and high brow and big concept, tho as usual these are not hard and fast definitions, nor is one good or the other bad.
Low brow: Star Wars, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc
High brow: the books of Alastair Reynolds, Iain M Banks, etc
Most space opera falls somewhere between these two.
What High Fantasy is to Fantasy, Space Opera is to Science Fiction. When done well, it is everything that makes scifi great.
M Alan wrote: "Every so often this question comes up on the facebook space opera group. Rather than quote an official source, I'll just give my definition. Space Opera is any scifi that features space ships and..."
Thanks for your definition :-) So in your opinion, what subgenre of sci-fi would books fall into that only take place in our solar system, perhaps in the near-ish future (within the next several centuries, for example)? Such as many of Ben Bova's books, or Against Infinity, Growing Up Weightless, etc?
Battlestar Galactica was space opera. The older stuff was kind of campy, but then you have authors like Peter F. Hamilton and James S.A. Corey writing these massive epics. The biggest indicator is that it worldbuilds the science, but doesn't spend a lot of time dwelling on how things are done, it just 'gets on with it.'
I'm thinking Marrow might be space opera, even though virtually the entire story takes place (view spoiler).
Anna wrote: "Battlestar Galactica was space opera. The older stuff was kind of campy, but then you have authors like Peter F. Hamilton and James S.A. Corey writing these massive epics. The biggest indicator is ..."I don't think it's fair to label the older stuff as 'camp'. The term 'camp' didn't exist until sometime in the mid-sixties. To a modern reader a 1940s story might appear camp but to a sci-fi fan of the period it was not camp.
Joan wrote: "James White Does the 'Sector General' series by James White count as space opera? One of my favourite space series!"I would think so. And I love the series too. :)
John wrote: "I don't think it's fair to label the older stuff as 'camp' ..."There's nothing wrong with 'campy.' From the URBAN DICTIONARY:
1, “Camp” n. or “Campy” adj. refers to intentionally exaggerated thematic or genre elements, especially in television and motion picture mediums. “Camp” style willfully over-emphasizes certain elements of the genre or theme, creating an almost self-satirical milieu. Some of the most popular examples include the James Bond films (exaggeration of espionage activities) and the original Batman series starring Adam West.
2. Being so extreme that it has an amusing and perversely sophisticated appeal.
3. adj. overacted or exaggerated (sometimes purposely),
As you can see, only the third definition has a slightly negative connotation. Campy is usually cult-favorite stuff. Some of my favorite space opera is campy :-)
I guess I am influenced by George Henderson's comment "nostalgia is a kiss on the cheek, camp is a slap on the face". The quote was made at an SF convention in Toronto in regards to the Doc Savage movie.
I guess the term "space opera" originally meant almost the same thing that the derogatory usage of "camp" now does?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_o...
Well 'campy' Space Opera stories are dominating the box office right now, so he who laughs last, laughs all the way to the bank 3:-)
The definitions seem to have shifted over the decades. True of some other genres as well. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it.
Anna wrote: "Well 'campy' Space Opera stories are dominating the box office right now, so he who laughs last, laughs all the way to the bank 3:-)"I find that the worse a space opera flick is, the more enjoyable!
Kirsten *Dogs Welcome - People Tolerated" wrote: "I find that the worse a space opera flick is, the more enjoyable!"..."I'm just waiting for them to come out with a Space Opera equivalent to The Rocky Horror Picture Show so we can all dress up in costume and sing along some cult favorite space tunes 3:-)
Having seen that film for my 'Theology of Film' class I shall refrain from commenting.
Anna wrote: "Kirsten *Dogs Welcome - People Tolerated" wrote: "I find that the worse a space opera flick is, the more enjoyable!"..."I'm just waiting for them to come out with a Space Opera equivalent to The Rocky Horror Picture Show ..."
That would be such fun!
Some of the Star Trek conventions I have been to have met that criteria.
Kirsten *Dogs Welcome - People Tolerated wrote: "I find that the worse a space opera flick is, the more enjoyable!"I suppose this is more spoof than actual space opera, but it is still absolutely classic: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094012/
'Always gets me chuckling :-)
Not quite Rocky Horror, but has anybody seen the Star Wars: The Empire Strips Back Burlesque parody?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F1tu...
Anna wrote: "Not quite Rocky Horror, but has anybody seen the Star Wars: The Empire Strips Back Burlesque parody?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F1tu..."
I watched a few youtube shorts of this, and other burlesque acts like it, yesterday, as a matter of fact. I saw a video on FB of one done by an Australian director (perhaps the same one you've linked above? not sure), and was trying to find a link to it outside of FB so I could send it to some non-FB friends, when I discovered that his was not actually the first one done. There have been Star Wars burlesques for at least 5 years now, done by different groups. It seems to be some sort of growing trend, lol. And yes, in some ways reminds me of the Rocky Horror phenomenon lol
People are strange :-p
Gaines wrote: "There have been Star Wars burlesques for at least 5 years now, done by different groups...."This group started the parody as a one-night knockoff, and it sold out, so they did it for a week, then a month, and as word got out and it kept selling seats they revamped it and even got some of the real-life Star Wars makeup/costume people to come in and help them make it look authentic.
Maybe this will solve the problem of who Ren's father is? 3:-) Heh-heh ... Jedi behaving badly.
Gaines wrote: " in your opinion, what subgenre of sci-fi would books fall into that only take place in our solar system, perhaps in the near-ish future"Generally this falls under the category "hard science fiction" in the sense that, simply by virtue of being set closer to the present it includes more realistic science and technology.
Of course these categories overlap, as do all such categories. e.g. Star Wars is space opera without science, hard or otherwise. Whereas Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy is (imho) hard SF without space opera, cheesy or otherwise. However writers like Stephen Baxter and Gregory Benford do sometimes manage to combine the two quite well.
Anna wrote: "Maybe this will solve the problem of who Ren's father is?"haha maybe :-p
M Alan wrote: "Gaines wrote: " in your opinion, what subgenre of sci-fi would books fall into that only take place in our solar system, perhaps in the near-ish future"Generally this falls under the category "ha..."
Thanks for this :-)
In that case, it seems to me like there needs to be another (I can't believe I'm saying this...) subgenre. Because much of Ben Bova's stuff, such as The Rock Rats, really didn't have much science in it; sure, the story was set in the asteroid belt and on a few moons, but the focus was on solar system politics and interpersonal relationships between the characters. Not what I would call "hard science fiction" at all. But yes, set in the not-so-distant future. Sort of mini-space opera ish lol
... SSO (Solar System Opera)? :-p
or maybe "SSS" ... "Solar System Saga" hehehe
How about Sub-Oort cloud, Above Perigee? Or SOAP Opera for short? :)
Space Opera is a state of mind :-) I tend to take a permissive view (which translates into 'I like it so let's assimilate it'). Kinda like laying claim to some new planet or resource-asteroid. Mine! Mine! Mine! The Borg Queen says I think we'll like it so let's all lay claim to all these sub-sub-sub-genre orphans and stick our tongue out at the boring, old, stodgy purists! A GROWING genre is a HEALTHY genre, while a RESTRICTIVE genre is one which shrivels on the vine and dies. So...
We are the Space Opera Fans. Will will assimilate your awesome new sci-fi space opera story into our collective and add your uniqueness to our awesomeness...
I am, too, but I've decided I should develop my tech a bit so that I can elude the Borg Queen's scanners. Although perhaps assimilation wouldn't be the end of the world.... omg that's not me thinking that! My mind is being taken over....!!! Ahhhhhhh!
So, 85 messages and a number of authors mentioned but not one is a woman author? Bujold's Vorkosigan series surely is space opera, yes? And Leckie's Imperial Radch trilogy is surely space opera. Or am I missing something here (completely possible, of course)? I am particularly interested in female authors of space opera, so if you have more to add, my ears are open.
Amelia wrote: "So, 85 messages and a number of authors mentioned but not one is a woman author? Bujold's Vorkosigan series surely is space opera, yes? And Leckie's Imperial Radch trilogy is surely space opera. ..."
Vast by Linda Nagata. I look forward to reading more of hers written in the same universe.
Amelia wrote: "So, 85 messages and a number of authors mentioned but not one is a woman author? Bujold's Vorkosigan series surely is space opera, yes? And Leckie's Imperial Radch trilogy is surely space opera. ..."
Yes, I'd agree with that. Love her writing. Bujold, I mean.
I'm stuck on the "I don't read much anymore" loop. But this one caught my eye long ago and it seems like it might be space opera?
Female author!
The series is here:
https://www.goodreads.com/series/4470...
There are a couple of other female Space Opera writers I just heard about even though I didn't remember ever seeing their names. Tanya Huff too. She has a series that is excellent
Remember that we have a Space Opera Fans Favorites listopia. That's where you get to drop in anything you think qualifies that you like and upvote other books on the list that you read and agree are good space opera. HERE: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/7...
We've got lots of other listopias which break things down by sub-sub genre, but that one's a good one just to enter your favorite horse into the race or scope out something general if you don't know what you're hankering for yet.
Space opera, as every reader doubtless knows, is a pejorative term often applied to a story that has an element of adventure. Over the decades, brilliant and talented new writers appear, receiving great acclaim, and each and every one of them can be expected to write at least one article stating flatly that the day of space opera is over and done, thank goodness, and that henceforth these crude tales of interplanetary nonsense will be replaced by whatever type of story that writer happens to favor — closet dramas, psychological dramas, sex dramas, etc., but by God important dramas, containing nothing but Big Thinks. Ten years late, the writer in question may or may not still be around, but the space opera can be found right where it always was, sturdily driving its dark trade in heroes.― Leigh Brackett
Mary wrote: "Ten years late, the writer in question may or may not still be around, but the space opera can be found right where it always was, sturdily driving its dark trade in heroes. ..."Hah! Yesssss.... :-)
Mary wrote: "Space opera, as every reader doubtless knows, is a pejorative term often applied to a story that has an element of adventure. Over the decades, brilliant and talented new writers appear, receiving ..."Love this!
Mary wrote: "well, you can like it here:https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7384...
If you like"
I do - and did!
Oni wrote: "If it happens in one planet, some called it planetary romance, to differentiate it from space opera."Exactly. Planetary romances are tales of action and adventure, often on a grand scale, on some strange and exotic planet. Which allows the writer much more flexibility in the technology. You can have a planetary romance in which people mainly fight with swords and travel by foot. A Princess of Mars and its sequels are planetary romance, not space opera; so is Flash Gordon.
"Romance" meaning, of course, heroic tales of larger than life characters and worlds, derived from medieval chivalric romance and the views of Romanticism, not love stories (allowed, not essential).
I take a wider view of space opera - any story set against the backdrop of an interstellar civilization. That doesn't rule out military, but also doesn't require melodrama. I think it's time we opened that up to some deeper, more personal stories.
And nobody mentioned Elizabeth Moon's work? (Or did I miss it in the conversation about female authors.)
I don't read tradpubs these days but you can also find some great indie space opera in the work of Lisa Cohen. Her Halcyone series is shaping up very nicely.
Nathan wrote: "I take a wider view of space opera - any story set against the backdrop of an interstellar civilization. That doesn't rule out military, but also doesn't require melodrama. I think it's time we opened that up to some deeper, more personal stories. ."
Nothing's closed off more personal stories. But it would be like trying to open up mysteries to not involve detecting; the stories might be fine, but they're not mysteries. A personal story against that interstellar backdrop isn't space opera.
Mary wrote: "Nathan wrote: "I take a wider view of space opera - any story set against the backdrop of an interstellar civilization. That doesn't rule out military, but also doesn't require melodrama. I think..."
I'd agree with that.
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