Catholic Readers discussion
Promotions, own books, etc.
>
New post in my blog on popular science
This topic is timely. I like your straw god argument, I also liked what G. Leibniz wrote about the best of all worlds and all that C.S. Lewis wrote on the topic of suffering.
Latest post in my blog on popular science:The Dunning-Kruger effect
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2020...
Latest post in my blog on popular science:Are we on our way to Soylent Green?
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2020...
Latest post in my blog on popular science:A singular universe
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2020...
Latest post in my blog on popular science:Equality or absurdity?
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2020...
Some of them enjoy getting away with the lie, and forcing other people to lie.
Can't see your article. Please check the link.
Sheila wrote: "Can't see your article. Please check the link."Sorry, I've just corrected it.
Thanks. I look forward to reading it.
Latest post in my blog on popular science:A few more things about dietetics
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2020...
I like this very much, also your fine article on abortion.
Latest post in my blog on popular science:Chesterton speaks to us today
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2020...
Excellent selection of GKC snippets. Thanks!
Latest post in my blog on popular science:Illusion or ignorance?
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2020...
Hi,I found your blog about human life to be interesting.
On the question of abortion, you write:
"In that case, why some biologists are in favor of abortion? Because they follow the relativistic ethics, because they assert that everything society decides is morally acceptable. Because they believe that a decision about this is not a question of science, but of laws."
As I see it, the issue of healthcare is less a moral, ethical, or even a legal one. It is simple a question of finances.
The political left favors public financing so the poor have equal access to quality healthcare.
The political right is more financially prudent. They seem to advocate for a woman to be well financed herself before she decides to get pregnant.
Carmen wrote: "As I see it, the issue of healthcare is less a moral, ethical, or even a legal one. It is simple a question of finances..."Of course, economy is a factor everywhere. However, when you confront biologists, who know very well that an embryo is a human being, with the ethical question, they usually answer what I say in the post: that it isn't a question of science but of laws.
I've had this answer in several discussion with pro-abortion biologists in other places.
Manuel wrote: "Carmen wrote: "As I see it, the issue of healthcare is less a moral, ethical, or even a legal one. It is simple a question of finances..."Of course, economy is a factor everywhere. However, when ..."
I honestly have never heard of a "pro-abortion biologist."
But the question of life goes back forever. St. Thomas Aquinas thought life began at the 'quickening' or at six months of pregnancy, when the baby showed signs of life. But modern science has shown the baby is its own being much earlier than that. The latest school of thought says days or weeks when the fertilized egg attaches itself to the womb for dear life.
It would be silly to call Congress or the Supreme Court to settle such matters. It would almost be like calling my congressperson to change the Law of Gravity after I had a bad fall.
Carmen wrote: "I honestly have never heard of a "pro-abortion biologist.""I have, and I also have debated with them.
Carmen wrote: "The latest school of thought says days or weeks when the fertilized egg attaches itself to the womb for dear life."
For a biologist there's no doubt that the new individual starts living at the fecundation of an egg by an spermatozoon (when the zygote is formed).
Carmen wrote: "It would be silly to call Congress or the Supreme Court to settle such matters. It would almost be like calling my congressperson to change the Law of Gravity after I had a bad fall."
Agreed! But politicians are so stupid, that in the Illinois legislature they once approved changing the value of Pi to make computations easier. See here: https://populscience.blogspot.com/201...
Manuel wrote: "Carmen wrote: "I honestly have never heard of a "pro-abortion biologist.""Carmen wrote: "The latest school of thought says days or weeks when the fertilized egg attaches itself to the womb for dear life."
Manuel wrote: "For a biologist there's no doubt that the new individual starts living at the fecundation of an egg by an spermatozoon (when the zygote is formed)."
Every human cell can be called a "new individual." The novel corona virus is a new individual virus that has caused us lots of trouble.
Carmen wrote: "It would be silly to call Congress or the Supreme Court to settle such matters. It would almost be like calling my congressperson to change the Law of Gravity after I had a bad fall."
Manuel wrote: "Agreed! But politicians are so stupid, that in the Illinois legislature they once approved changing the value of Pi to make computations easier."
Sadly, stupid politicians are elected by stupid voters. The president once suggested we inject patients infected with the virus with bleach! And with 120,000 new infections reported yesterday, and 1,000 Americans dying a day, 70 millions Americans still voted for him!
Carmen wrote: "Manuel wrote: "For a biologist there's no doubt that the new individual starts living at the fecundation of an egg by an spermatozoon (when the zygote is formed)."Every human cell can be called a "new individual." The novel corona virus is a new individual virus that has caused us lots of trouble."
When I wrote "a new individual" I meant and should have said "a new individual human being." A human cell is not a new individual human being (unless it is a zygote) and a virus, of course, is not a new individual human being.
Manuel wrote: "Carmen wrote: "Manuel wrote: "For a biologist there's no doubt that the new individual starts living at the fecundation of an egg by an spermatozoon (when the zygote is formed)."When I wrote "a new individual" I meant and should have said "a new individual human being." A human cell is not a new individual human being (unless it is a zygote) and a virus, of course, is not a new individual human being."
Just as a virus is not part of a living organism until it infects a living cell, a zygote is not viable without the womb of the mother.
So from a biological, ethical, moral, political ... just common sense ... we know that without the mother the zygote will NEVER become an individual human being.
Even the Lord needed the Blessed Mother to give her big YES!
Carmen wrote: "So from a biological, ethical, moral, political... just common sense... we know that without the mother the zygote will NEVER become an individual human being."And without the mother, the embryo or the fetus won't be viable either. What of it? We adults are not viable without Society. How long would you last completely isolated?
I thought we were discussing when a human being can be considered to start living, and that's unquestionably at the zygote state (no biologist, abortionist or otherwise denies this). But you have moved to a discussion about viability which has nothing to do with it.
Manuel wrote: "Carmen wrote: "So from a biological, ethical, moral, political... just common sense... we know that without the mother the zygote will NEVER become an individual human being."Manuel wrote: "I thought we were discussing when a human being can be considered to start living, and that's unquestionably at the zygote state (no biologist, abortionist or otherwise denies this). But you have moved to a discussion about viability which has nothing to do with it."
Viability has EVERYTHING to do whether or not a zygote develops into an embryo. From fifth-grade sex ed class, we know that women expel zygotes every month during their menstruation period. No one knows if the zygote has become an embryo until AFTER a woman has missed her period.
Carmen wrote: "From fifth-grade sex ed class, we know that women expel zygotes every month during their menstruation period. No one knows if the zygote has become an embryo until AFTER a woman has missed her period.."You are mistaken. What an woman expels every month is an unfertilized egg. A zygote is a fertilized egg, i.e. an egg that has united with a spermatozoon.
Manuel wrote: "Carmen wrote: "From fifth-grade sex ed class, we know that women expel zygotes every month during their menstruation period. No one knows if the zygote has become an embryo until AFTER a woman has ...""You are mistaken. What an woman expels every month is an unfertilized egg. A zygote is a fertilized egg, i.e. an egg that has united with a spermatozoon."
Really??? You truly do not see ANY possibility of a fertilized egg dying and being expelled during menstruation?
Carmen wrote: "Really??? You truly do not see ANY possibility of a fertilized egg dying and being expelled during menstruation?"Yes, of course, this could happen if the embryo (or pre-embryo, as some prefer to call it during this phase) fails to implant on the womb wall. I thought you meant that this happened in every menstruation.
But this has nothing to do with the original question: when does human life begin?
A female ovum has 23 chromosomes; a spermatozoon has 23 chromosomes; when they fuse in a zygote, the zygote has 46 chromosomes in a new combination (23 from the mother, 23 from the father) that will be shared by every cell of the body (barring mutations) until death. This combination is unique (barring identical twins) among all human beings, thus DNA identification is possible.
So a zygote marks the chromosomal beginning of a new human being until death. A death that can come before implantation (6-12 days after ovulation), after implantation but before birth (then it's called miscarriage), or after birth, because of accidents or illness or any other reason. But what is dying in all these cases is a human being with its own DNA endowment.
Manuel wrote: "Carmen wrote: "Really??? You truly do not see ANY possibility of a fertilized egg dying and being expelled during menstruation?"Yes, of course, this could happen if the embryo (or pre-embryo, as ..."
The question of life is an old question to be addressed biologically, philosophically, and/or legally. From a legal perspective, we have to return to the thought of asking our congressional reps to change the Law of Gravity. One can see the legal problems that could rise every time someone had a bad fall.
As in the loss of any life, a miscarriage is devastating to the mother. Many feel that government has NO place to impose itself upon a mother and doctor when they have to make quick life and death decisions.
That is why many promote Obamacare. Parents need to feel confident that their doctor is doing everything to save the life of their child. It would be devastating to learn that a doctor is choosing the cheapest route because the parents don't have medical insurance.
Latest post in my blog on popular science:What does mathematics say about time travel?
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2020...
Regards,
Manuel wrote: "Latest post in my blog on popular science:What does mathematics say about time travel?
I like your reasoning. Thought provoking.
Latest post in my blog on popular science:Scientific predictions for 2020
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2020...
Latest post in my blog on popular science:Atheism, theism and science
https://populscience.blogspot.com/202...
Latest post in my blog on popular science:Is there a tree of life?
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2020...
Manuel wrote: "Latest post in my blog on popular science:Is there a tree of life?
YES!! Of course! Life giving trees had an origin.
But what about the Tree of Knowledge?
Carmen wrote: YES!! Of course! Life giving trees had an origin.But what about the Tree of Knowledge?
Apart from the Tree of Knowledge of Eden in Genesis (option 1), this term may refer to other things, such as:
Option 2. A novel with this title by the Spanish well-known writer Pío Baroja.
Option 3. A book by biologists Maturana and Varela about the biological roots of human understanding.
Option 4. A 1920 silent film directed by William C. de Mille.
Option 5. A 1981 Danish film.
Option 6. Yggdrasil, the mythical Norse tree of the world, from which Odin hung upside down to obtain knowledge.
Option 7. A tree in Australia where the Australian Labour Party was founded in 1892.
Plus a few others. I assume you meant option 1, right? :-)
Manuel wrote: "Carmen wrote: YES!! Of course! Life giving trees had an origin.But what about the Tree of Knowledge?
Apart from the Tree of Knowledge of Eden in Genesis (option 1), this term may refer to other t..."
Yes, your post is for Catholic Readers, hence everything has to be biblically based. Genesis Ch. 2 talks about two trees in the garden: 1) the tree of life, and 2) the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
The tree of life is biological. Would the tree of knowledge be mathematical?
You seem to be taking the books in the Genesis story as metaphorical, not as real trees. I won't say this is wrong. But "the tree of knowledge" is an incomplete name. Its complete name is "the tree of knowledge about good and evil." Therefore it cannot be mathematical. The knowledge it refers to is moral, ethical. This tree is "the tree of human freedom," which is what makes good and evil possible.When our first parents sinned, they made use of their freedom and automatically learned about good and evil.
Manuel wrote: "You seem to be taking the books in the Genesis story as metaphorical, not as real trees. I won't say this is wrong. But "the tree of knowledge" is an incomplete name. Its complete name is "the tree..."I like the idea of "the tree of human freedom." We have the freedom to choose life or death.
Latest post in my blog on popular science:Striking errors in scientific research
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2020...
Latest post in my blog on popular science:The enigma of the natural order
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2020...
Latest post in my blog on popular science:The clock in Strasbourg Cathedral
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2020...
Latest post in my blog on popular science:Dating the Turin Shroud
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2021...
Manuel, this is truly an exhaustive study. Do you have a scientific opinion of your own that you would like to share with us?
My personal opinion is that the Turin Shroud is authentic. However, rather than scientific, this opinion is based on historical data, as explained in the first set of bullets in the post.On the other hand, the arguments against the radioactive dating of the small piece of the Shroud are not fully convincing. So we have a discrepancy that makes it possible to believe both things, that the Shroud is authentic, or that it was made in the 13th-14th century.
In a 2017 mystery novel Carbon-14: The Shroud of Turin dealing with this, a curious argument is offered by a Cardinal of the Catholic Church: that God doesn't want the Shroud to be proved authentic, because if it were, atheists must stop being atheists, and therefore human freedom would be nullified.
I find this argument unconvincing, but I don't think the Church will allow the test to be repeated on another part of the Shroud, as it should be done to solve the issue.
Catholic Readers
Books mentioned in this topic
Time and Man (other topics)The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (other topics)
The Fifth Level of Evolution (other topics)
La Vida En Otros Mundos (other topics)
Carbon-14: The Shroud of Turin (other topics)
The problem of no best world
http://populscience.blogspot.com/2020...