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Ep 94; Reading vs Collecting & Judging People By What They Read
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Yes and yes and yes. A friend of mine was once enthusing about her then new boyfriend, "Ruth", she said, "he reads!". Naturally I was impressed, as this was then a rare and coveted trait in boyfriends. When I finally met him and saw the types of books he read, my snotty inner-reader was very judgmental. He only read Tom Clancy, Robert Ludlum and the like...total "lad lit" and I remember thinking, "that's not really reading".
Ruthiella wrote: "Yes and yes and yes. A friend of mine was once enthusing about her then new boyfriend, "Ruth", she said, "he reads!". Naturally I was impressed, as this was then a rare and coveted trait in boyfrie..."Ditto - I can really relate to that story, Ruth!
I just have to say I loathe Gone with the Wind. I made it about 200 pages in and it is the worst example of Southern lit and the characters are an exercise in stereotypes. Ugh.
I wish there was a "like" button on Goodreads, I would use it on each of your messages.I had a similar experience to Ruth. When we moved into our house in 2010 I was excited that my next door neighbor was a retired English teacher who loved to read. And I then I saw what she read. Needless to say we haven't talked about books in three years.
I don't mind if people read what I think isn't "literature." I mind when they act like it is literature. I love a good escapist read, but I know that is what it is. EXAMPLE: A few years ago I was at a coffee shop and ran into a relative of my husband. She knew I liked to read and recommended 50 Shades of Grey. I politely thanked her for the suggestion. She then continued to gush (no pun intended) about the book. She said, "50 Shades of Grey has sold so many copies and is such a beautiful love story. IT IS THE TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD OF OUR TIME". And since my child is named Atticus I love "To Kill a Mockingbird" so -- of course -- I would love 50 Shades of Grey. I kid you not. It took every bit of self-control to smile blankly and arrange my face.
Amanda wrote: "I don't mind if people read what I think isn't "literature." I mind when they act like it is literature. I love a good escapist read, but I know that is what it is. EXAMPLE: A few years ago I was..."
Oh my goodness! That is hilarious! How can anyone compare 50 Shades with To Kill a Mockingbird? I see no connection whatsoever.
Anyways I can agree with what most of you are saying, but where I get a little judgmental is when people only read romance novels. Actually I tend to get a little judgmental with a lot of YA readers too, because for the most part I see those as just a romance novel for a younger age group.
I'm not so snobby about "guy lit" because I find a lot of that really engaging myself. Plus Tom Clancy's books are usually pretty hefty reads! Anyone who commits to reading a series where each book is pushing 1000 pages or more, is a true reader in my mind.
I used to teach English for twelve years and there were very few teachers that actually read anything at all (other than what they taught). And only two of my colleagues actually read similar books as me. Also, many of the teachers would say things like, "I'm not teaching ______ because I don't like it." Really? I do have a tendency to look at what others read and when it isn't books I would typically read, I tend to judge. But I shouldn't. I mean as long as people are reading. As long as they understand I wouldn't necessarily read Danielle Steele or Robert Ludlum. I can read fluff every now and then, but not all of the time. On the other side of the coin, I can't always read literature either. My brain needs a rest.
I definitely had to hold back judgment when my students told me what they were reading. I tried to encourage my students to read by discussing what I was currently reading and even checking out books for them at my local library.
I did have one colleague quit speaking to me when she saw me reading The Devil Wears Prada in the teachers' lounge. She said it was the same as "watching reality television." And I had to admit I didn't mind some mindless reality shows every now and then. After that conversation, she never spoke to me again. She seemed so disturbed all through lunch and she said she had "lost respect" for me. Give me a break!
What a fun thread. Of course a book can be a thing of beauty, but ultimately books are just things. (That said, I recently upgraded my Sherlock Holmes editions to the handsome and sturdy paperback editions with the covers designed by Coralie Bickford-Smith.) Like Thomas, I also enjoy the look of a battered, but obviously read book.
I once had a very humbling experience when judging people by the books they read. I was making fun of trashy literature to my high school Latin teacher. He answered my scorn by telling me how his own mother, an illiterate immigrant, painstakingly taught herself to read English by reading very lowbrow, dime store paperbacks. So I learned to keep my mouth shut on this subject.
Of course it is always possible to enjoy the lowbrow, if it is read in the spirit in which it was written. My reading pet peeve is bestsellers, which are often middlebrow books pretending to be serious literature. The only book shelves I tend to judge harshly are those which are made up of each year's "important" (yet very flavor-of-the-month) books. To me, this speaks to a lack of individuality, and an unwillingness to make up one's own mind about books. I have a relative who buys every Margaret Atwood book when it comes out, yet professes to not like Atwood's writing. Then why bother?
I once had a very humbling experience when judging people by the books they read. I was making fun of trashy literature to my high school Latin teacher. He answered my scorn by telling me how his own mother, an illiterate immigrant, painstakingly taught herself to read English by reading very lowbrow, dime store paperbacks. So I learned to keep my mouth shut on this subject.
Of course it is always possible to enjoy the lowbrow, if it is read in the spirit in which it was written. My reading pet peeve is bestsellers, which are often middlebrow books pretending to be serious literature. The only book shelves I tend to judge harshly are those which are made up of each year's "important" (yet very flavor-of-the-month) books. To me, this speaks to a lack of individuality, and an unwillingness to make up one's own mind about books. I have a relative who buys every Margaret Atwood book when it comes out, yet professes to not like Atwood's writing. Then why bother?
Since Simon was wondering why there was a new edition of GWTW with Vivien Leigh on the cover I think it was because it was just recently the centenary of her birth. There was an excellent season of her films shown at the British Film Institute and a gallery of photos of her at the London Portrait Museum. I've never read GWTW but I'd really like to as I love the movie so much.
I used to be a real collector. When I first moved to London I went to so many author readings and collected signatures. Also when I first earned some real money I bought lots of first or rare editions of books. For me it was all about the initial enthusiasm of having access to these books/authors. If I had a Beauty & the Beast sized castle library and limitless funds I probably would still collect as many books as I can, but I only have a small study in London. I still love seeing authors read but unless I absolutely love them and/or their book I won't get it signed. For me it's more about the words than an object I want to collect now. That doesn't stop me from staring for ages at shelves in bookshops, other people's shelves or my own though.
I think you can't help judging people by what they read or what's on their bookshelf. But, as you both said, you have lots of non-reader friends and that doesn't stop a friendship. It might colour it initially if you're thinking "Oh he's the type that reads Dan Brown, is he?" But that doesn't really define a person. I try not to be a snob when talking to people about books, but I must exude it a bit. A friend said to me once that he was afraid to say he'd read The Hunger Games books because he thought I'd laugh at him. Incidentally I really enjoyed reading them as well. But it struck me that people might hide what they read for fear of being judged. As far as partners go, I'm jealous Simon is partnered with a professionally-trained chef. If you have a partner who makes you delicious food who cares what they read?
Amanda wrote: "I don't mind if people read what I think isn't "literature." I mind when they act like it is literature. I love a good escapist read, but I know that is what it is.Amanda, I totally agree with you. I've had similar things happen before too. I've had someone who had only read one trashy book (the only thing they'd read for the past three years) and she handed it to me saying "You like to read. Read this!" I think some people who don't read much don't have the capacity to judge good books/literature from bad because there is no point of reference to make a comparison so whatever one or two books they've read they consider great reads.
Eric wrote: "Since Simon was wondering why there was a new edition of GWTW with Vivien Leigh on the cover I think it was because it was just recently the centenary of her birth. There was an excellent season of..."It's also the 75th anniversary of the film this year.
I very rarely discuss what I'm reading with people in the 'real world' - I read a lot of golden age detective fiction and I'm always worried that more intellectual colleagues will think it lowbrow in comparison to what they read. So it does work both ways doesn't it! I love to come on to GoodReads and find people to discuss the books I love with.
I used to be a major book collector and then ran out of space! My kindle has really been a lifesaver as I can download a book I want to reread again without the worry that I've given it away at some point to make more space on my overstocked shelves. I do though still collect virago modern classics in the original dark green as I've been doing it for years and that bookcase does look very impressive in the corner of the dining room. I'm also resisting the urge to collect Persephone books but they're so pretty and would make another gorgeously stocked bookcase.
As for judging people on what they read it's mainly if they only read in a certain genre of trashy books and don't acknowledge that they're bad.
I have my comfort reading for when I've read a few to many "heavy" books in either plot or writing style and sometimes it's nice to read something easy afterwards so you can go back to a more serious book mentally refreshed.
Do other people try to help others with finding good books in a style they'll like?
I've got a bit of a reputation as a serial book recommender and it's generally been a success, like if I know someone only reads chick lit I'll often give them I capture the castle by dodie smith to read or some Nancy Mitford as the themes are similar to what they like reading only better written ;)
I sometimes pick up copies of books in charity shops with the sole intent of helping someone expand their reading tastes with something I'll think they like and have had some great conversations with people afterwards with them asking for more recommendations. I love the idea of helping someone get into great literature and then eventually getting some good book recommendations back.
I only do this though if I already really like the person as otherwise it's just a waste of energy.
I love recommending books to people and I especially love it when I am able to make a happy match. I get to indulge my inner reference librarian. I don’t have a problem (any more), however, with recommending books that I wouldn’t read myself or that I didn’t particularly enjoy. I have a colleague who loved the Hunger Games trilogy and Twilight novels so I recommended to her Cassandra Clare’s Mortal Instruments series. I have another colleague who reads a lot of James Patterson and I recommended Jonathan Kellerman and Lisa Scottolini books to her.
I love listening to your podcast! I only wish you could hear me laugh out loud or see me nod in agreement with you. I think I'm a cross between a collector and a reader. I have many times bought several editions of a favorite book and have bought books with no intention of reading them just to have them on my shelf. I recently had to downsize my book space and donated so many books - I lost count. I found it liberating at first and then of course someone would ask about a book I'd given away and I'd feel I needed to run out and get a new copy.
As for being judgy...unfortunately, I have found myself guilty. I've also been judged for what I read and it's no fun! As a result, I've learned to adopt the "at least you're reading" attitude and really, to each his own. I have also read a few of the books I was judging people for reading just in case I'm missing something. Ususally I'm not a big fan, but there have been a few times I found myself enjoying the books in spite of myself.
Finally - I would be interested in a Gone With The Wind read along.
I am definitely a collector as well as a reader. I do a lot of shopping in second handbook shops and if I come across a hardback copy of a book I own in paperback, especially if it's a first edition, then I will buy it even if I'm not entirely sure I'll ever read it again and I will also buy books just because they are in better condition than the versions I own. I don't think I'd qualify as a hoarder however since I don't keep both versions, in fact I can't think of a single book I have more than one copy of, the old copy is always traded in or given away which is the closest I ever get to a cull.As for judging people by their books, don't we all really want to be judged? Isn't that why we display our books at home and here on Goodreads? so people can see how discerning, intelligent and cultured we all are? I am definitely guilty of putting the "good" books on the shelves that people first see when they come into my house although from where I'm sitting right now I can see my copies of both The Da Vinci Code and Finnegans Wake - no prizes for guessing which one I actually finished.
Thomas, there is a shop here in Richmond that stocks the Penguin postcards you mentioned on the show, I'd always thought I might buy a set and have them mounted in a frame but now I'm going to steal your idea and send them to a booking loving friend, shall I pick you another up a set while I'm there?
Amanda wrote: "I don't mind if people read what I think isn't "literature." I mind when they act like it is literature. I love a good escapist read, but I know that is what it is. EXAMPLE: A few years ago I was..."
A funny and tragic story.
Coleen wrote: "I love listening to your podcast! I only wish you could hear me laugh out loud or see me nod in agreement with you. I think I'm a cross between a collector and a reader. I have many times bough..."
Yay! Now I only hope you are laughing with us. :)
Jason wrote: "As for judging people by their books, don't we all really want to be judged? Isn't that why we display our books at home and here on Goodreads? so people can see how discerning, intelligent and cultured we all are?You are so right, we do want to be judged. I laughed out loud at that. I am happy that anyone is stealing my postcard idea. And no, please do not pick me up a new set. That would get in the way of my newly found collecting is not for me persona.
Jason wrote: "I am definitely a collector as well as a reader. I do a lot of shopping in second handbook shops and if I come across a hardback copy of a book I own in paperback, especially if it's a first editio..."I love your statement about all of us wanting to be judged! You are so right!
Thomas wrote: "Coleen wrote: "I love listening to your podcast! I only wish you could hear me laugh out loud or see me nod in agreement with you. I think I'm a cross between a collector and a reader. I have m..."
Absolutely laughing with you! You guys are amazing!
I must be a different sort of collector from Simon. I understand that he likes his series to be in matching editions. The actual edition makes no difference to me. Very few of my series or collections match. I just need them to be in alphabetical order by the author's last name on my shelves. I am attached to my physical books not by price or cover artwork, but by the memories I have of reading the book, or of purchasing the book. I enjoy buying books when I travel, and even if I haven't read the book yet, I am still connected to it by the memories it evokes. I will keep books that I have no intention of ever reading again because seeing the book on my shelf reminds me of the lovely time I had reading it. Does anyone else remember their lives through books? My high school students were asking me about my experiences as a high school senior, and I said, "Ah, yes! My senior year was Shakespeare and Russian novels!"
As for judging people by the books they read, I try to judge the book and not the reader. If someone is reading a poorly written book, I assume that he or she is reading to escape, or enjoy, or relax, not to be challenged or enlightened. Everyone wants to enjoy a little nonsense every now and again. I agree that when someone tries to defend the nonsense as LITERATURE then I have a problem with that person's ability to read critically.
Shirley wrote: "I used to be a major book collector and then ran out of space! My kindle has really been a lifesaver as I can download a book I want to reread again without the worry that I've given it away at som..."I live in a small village, an many of our neighbours refer to me as the "local library" - so when they go on vacation they drop by an ask for book recommendations (and I find one of the books I'm willing to let others borrow! :-)
I've had a lot of book discussions with my teenage nieces, and tried to give them some really great YA (and other genres) books to read - so they have the proper reference material (in my opinion!:-) to judge other books from.
I have a BA in literature, and I've been very amused when people raise their brows at my reading comics, erotica and graphic novels. I love reading different things, and have presently fallen in love with the Fables comics.
I tend to be a little snobish when it comes to various magazines/papers publishing books of the year lists - where they've clearly just selected a handful of - again in my opinion - mediocre bestsellers.
Melissa wrote: "I must be a different sort of collector from Simon. I understand that he likes his series to be in matching editions. The actual edition makes no difference to me. Very few of my series or collecti..."Yes, I love to at look my books and remember when I first read them and what I was doing at the time. I remember going into a secondhand bookshop in Newcastle about 30 years ago and picking up The Herb of Grace by Elizabeth Goudge - the first book I read by this author. I still have the book and it brings back memories even though my copy is a very plain hardback with no jacket.
It used to be that classical music was called serious music and popular music was considered trashy. Musical snobbery still exists but it has lost some of its control over culture. Dance music is great for dancing! I love classical music but appreciate what every form has to offer. The same is true for books."Trashy" science fiction has inspired generations of scientists and inventors. Romance novels can teach women to believe in positive relationships and leave abusive partners. (see Everything I Know About Love I Learned from Romance Novels) An author exhibits great skill in maintaining the propulsion and suspense in a mystery novel. I've read many well-regarded literary books where the author doesn't have the first clue about plot but does capture an odd nuance of life.
There are good books and bad books in every genre. Every genre offers its own rewards. I like to keep an open mind and read broadly. Don't be judgin'!
I'm reader and collector. I like being surrounded by books and being able to grab a book off a shelf and re-read a favorite passage. Sometimes a book is special not because of the book itself but because of where I got it or who gave it to me. I primarily collect paperbacks. Sometimes I purposely look for mass market editions - that format just seems perfect to me for old mysteries and romance novels. Real collectors would probably scoff at my collection but it suits me.As for being a snob about the kinds of books people read, I'm not - anymore. I use to judge others and myself based on what they read. I felt a little bit bad when I read a cozy mystery, a soapy romance, or a comic book and aspired to read "real" literature. Now I'm older and my attitude is I like what I like and you can like what you like. It's my money and my reading time and I'll spend both as I want. I do still try to read classics but because I am interested in them. Still more often than not I read mysteries, romances, science fiction and anything that looks like it might be interesting. Right now paranormal/supernatural books have grabbed my attention and won't let go. As long as I keep enjoying the ride I'll keep reading them. I am still a bit of snob when it comes to people who don't read at all, because well, I just don't get that.
The Readers
Books mentioned in this topic
Everything I Know About Love I Learned from Romance Novels (other topics)The Herb of Grace (other topics)
The Devil Wears Prada (other topics)
And is Simon a snob for judging people by what they read? Ha ha, I shouldn't have fun at his expense, if one of us is a snob we both are. Are you? Has someone's bad taste in books ever caused you to think twice about your relationship with them?