The Not a Book Club Club discussion
This topic is about
Words of Radiance
Brandon Sanderson
>
WoR: Section 4 - Part 2: Winds' Approach (Chapters 13-34)
date
newest »
newest »
Mod
I'm pretty sure you could hurt yourself with a Shardblade. But that still doesn't help Szeth. Part of being Truthless means he's not allowed to kill himself (by his own will or a master ordering it.) He's also not allowed to give up his Blade. We learned that in one of his interludes in WoK.
Mod
I didn't really think about that, but it fits. Kaladin reminds me a bit of Rand with all his anger issues. I'm hoping it doesn't take him nearly so long to work through.
Definitely ready to see Kaladin work through his anger issues. Good point on the lies and truth Alex. It definitely seems like the Spren think lies and truth mean something different than what we think those words mean. To me it seems like truth to the spren is more about inner self and being honest with who you are, while lies are more how radiants shape objects and the people around them.
You're spot on with malazan reference about intentionally losing in battle and letting it all end. Somehow I don't think that is going to happen for Szeth and we are going to see much more of him.
- I wonder why the Parshendi see artform (or creationform, I forget) as the ultimate goal? In the interludes we saw many of them trying and trying to regain this knowledge, and it's reiterated in one of the chapter openings.
I think it's just because artform is one of the few forms they know of/can reasonably try to achieve on a regular basis. It seems like they need a particular spren for each form (stormspren for stormform, creationspren for art form, maybe passionspren for mateform, ect.) Creationspren may not be easy to attract, but you can try without spending a lot of resources or putting yourself in a lot of danger. Eshonai says something about how artists won't save them, but may unlock the key to other, more powerful forms.
Why doesn't Szeth just suck in one battle if he's so tired of life? He can't kill himself, but surely he could not try so hard and die on an opponent's sword instead? Unless that's also against his rules.
The way it's phrased in the prologue of TWoK is "Szeth's honor would not allow him to betray his mission or seek death." As far as Szeth is concerned, killing himself, letting himself be killed, and holding back in a fight are all the same thing.
I think it's just because artform is one of the few forms they know of/can reasonably try to achieve on a regular basis. It seems like they need a particular spren for each form (stormspren for stormform, creationspren for art form, maybe passionspren for mateform, ect.) Creationspren may not be easy to attract, but you can try without spending a lot of resources or putting yourself in a lot of danger. Eshonai says something about how artists won't save them, but may unlock the key to other, more powerful forms.
Why doesn't Szeth just suck in one battle if he's so tired of life? He can't kill himself, but surely he could not try so hard and die on an opponent's sword instead? Unless that's also against his rules.
The way it's phrased in the prologue of TWoK is "Szeth's honor would not allow him to betray his mission or seek death." As far as Szeth is concerned, killing himself, letting himself be killed, and holding back in a fight are all the same thing.
Alex - great pointer on the truth and lies, I'll be thinking of that as I read further. I also agree that it was a shock to discover Sanderson is a practicing Mormon, he is so open about contemplation of other religions. Altho Odium is definitely a Satan character who seemingly has defeated the Almighty, and the Stormlight Archives is definitely a battle against him. But it's also the standard good vs evil, which is really what most fantasy is about. As it should be!
Rob wrote: "The pacing always seems to be the number one complaint I've seen about WoK, and it seems like some people are saying that again here, but I just don't have that issue I guess."Never been my problem with the series. This is my jam.
--
On the truth/lies subject, I'm sure at some point in this book I saw the term 'liespren' being used (I think in reference to Pattern). Whereas, Syl is an honorspren. Maybe related to the shards - Honor and Odium. I feel that this is important in some way as it relates to the surgebinding or the KR.
But then, Szeth doesn't have a spren. Perhaps his surgebinding is somehow of Odium and the others (who have spren-based surgebinding) are of Honor. Or not.
--
Overall, this part was great. It had a good climax, as Sanderson said this was the end of book 1 in his book of trilogies (here). I'm glad that Tyn didn't drag Shallan to Jah Keved, as that would've been a drag on the story (not that it matters now). I thought we might hear Shallan recite an ideal, in her fight with Tyn. I can't remember, has Shallan recited the first ideal, yet?
I felt that Kaladin didn't have as much to do in this chapter but with the late arrival of Szeth and the impending arrival of Shallan, I think that story will pick up. I'm interested to see what happens with the Parshendi/Dalinar peace talk since it was briefly mentioned that Parshendi messenger had arrived before the Szeth assassination attempt.
Mandi wrote: "Creationspren may not be easy to attract, but you can try without spending a lot of resources or putting yourself in a lot of danger."I wanted to say this. One of the stanzas mentioned that there was inherent danger in seeking this form.
I just finished this section today. It took awhile to read through this thread, too! ;)Unlike some others here, I like Shallan. I've liked her more and more as this book progressed, much more than I did in WoK. In WoK, she was too naive, too frustrating. She's still got a long way to go, but I like these discoveries she's made with respect to her drawing and abilities. For that alone, Jasnah needed to die (go away for awhile??). I'm also a big fan of Pattern.
I had forgotten that Shallan's mother had her eyes burned out. Spoiler for part 3 (view spoiler).
Was Tyn a character before? I mean, did we see her in another section, just unnamed? I was at the grocery store when the scene with Tyn was going down, but it was really intense!
I kind of liked seeing Gaz again. Since Shallan has given all these characters drawing of "what they could be," is there a chance that they can become these people?
Kaladin is driving me nuts. I realize this book is really about Shallan, but come on, they don't need to swap characters! He's become timid and moderately annoying.
So, is Szeth a smokebinder?
Does the chapter heading that discusses the 10 powers imply that each has a unique ability but that there are also shared abilities? How many total abilities does that make? Is the order defined yet in the book?
Mod
There are 10 orders/10 abilities, each order has 2 abilities. Each ability is shared with another order. So each ability is paired with two different abilities. For example Shallan is a Lightweaver. They can do Illumination and Tranformation. Jasnah was probably a Elsecaller though, because they do Transformation and Transportation. She stated in WoK how they shared transformation (soul casting) but not their other ability.
Mod
http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wi...
@Alex: I wrote it all out under the topic "Orders of the Knights Radiant," but there are spoilers both in that chart and the conversation below it. Let me find you a different link. http://squirenonny.tumblr.com/image/7... It's the chart with all the glyphs translated. Should be spoiler-free.
I know everyone is done with this but I'm slow.Lori (Hellian) wrote: "I have reached Alex's annoyance with Shallans sketching, it's too much. This is more a comment on the writing than her character. At the risk of being yelled at, I find Sanderson's writing to be lightweight compared to Eriikson and others."
This for me as well. I get tired reading about her taking a Memory and then drawing it. I've also gotten used to Erikson's writing, where you have to work at things to figure it out. Erikson challenges me whereas Sanderson does not. Not that I don't like Sanderson or his stories anymore because I do.
Jake wrote: "I'm glad she finally used it though. I was disliking her more and more. She just comes off kind of selfish to me. She seems to barely even mourn Jasnah's or the shipmates death. She could have helped dispatched the bandits with her shard blade and saved lives. And she seems to only care about herself. She was just using Tyn and taking Kaladin's boots was petty and borderline cruel. She knows a regular dark eyed soldier wouldn't have an extra pair lying around. And her constant second guessing and self questioning was driving me crazy. Anyway, that was a mini rant. I'm glad she finally took some action. "
I also do not like Shallan all that much for many of the reasons that you stated. I will say that she's growing on me a little more but I still don't care for her too much.
I really love the Kaladin parts of this book. I like how his relationships with Dalinar and Adolin are evolving. Kaladin's continuing reluctance to tell Dalinar about his surge binding abilities make total sense to me. After everything the light eyes put him through, it's no wonder that it's taking Kaladin so long to trust the Kholins completely.
I got really into this section and read at least half of it in 1 day.
Mod
Maybe if you didn't read a new book after each chapter ^_^
Things move so slowly in this book. I'm a moody reader! You know this. :-)
Mod
Mod
Oh I thought TWoK was terribly slow as well.
Dara wrote: "Oh I thought TWoK was terribly slow as well."At least your consistent
Mod
How do you rate a book you find terribly slow 5 stars?
I still liked it a lot. It moved at a slow pace but most of the book focuses on Kaladin, my favorite character so far. I found his story interesting and the slow burn worked for me whereas Shallan has been the focus for this book more than Kaladin and her character doesn't resonate with me.
Mod
The thing I'm wondering at this point is if breathing in Stormlight kills spren - if spren are what's in the spheres, then does breathing in stormlight kill them? And maybe in an extreme situation you can "breath in" or expend your honour spren. I'm wondering because we have a few references now to surgebinders killing their spren.
Mod
Rob wrote: "Yeah, we don't really have a good idea about how stormlight works. However I'm inclined to say no because the stormlight seems to be a renewable resource."Yes - but I'm thinking that putting a sphere in the storm catches another spren to replace the dead one or expended one.
Mod
Rob wrote: "But that would be mass genocide. I just don't buy it."Hmmm, but maybe everyday spren aren't considered to be alive in the same way honour spren are? It would explain why the storm father accuses Kaladin of killing Syl sometime in the future.
Mod
We'll have to wait and see I guess. Then I can tell you I told you so later on. :)
Mod
Ha Ha! I'll pay you that one :)
Maybe using Stormlight works like a parasite or bacteria or something. Taking the Stormlight from the spren makes it sick so spheres turn dun and (to stick with the illness theme) go into a coma of sorts. Then highstorms cure them, making them awake again. Using Stormlight from your personal spren kills them. Maybe the spheres protect the spren in there from totally dying? I don't know if that makes any sense and I'm sure it's not correct. I dunno. I've been watching a lot of House so differential diagnosing feels right.
On to the interludes!