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Words of Radiance
Brandon Sanderson
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WoR: Section 4 - Part 2: Winds' Approach (Chapters 13-34)
Featuring Shallan, Kaladin, Adolin and Sadeas.This part's short preambles cite stanzas from the "Listener Song of Listing" listing several of Parshendis' ancient forms, most of them being lost. They start with current known forms like warform but expand quickly to interesting variations like Scholarform, Artform, Mediationform or Nightform. Later on, the stanzas give more impressions about Parshendi culture like their ralationship to spren, gods and humans.
Shallan's adventures toward the Shattered Plains in a caravan - it is quite entertaining with bandit turncloaks, assassins and her exploration of Lightweaving. In ancient times, there were female Radiant Knights, but currently it is quite unusual to see females using swords. It becames quite clear early on that the female leader of the caravan's guard Tyn is something different. Shallan partners with her and (view spoiler).
We get some flashbacks to her youth involving her mysterious brother.
In some chapters, Shallan's story dragged heavily - Sanderson needed a whole chapter to give her room to draw some pictures that seem to come from a mysterious source. But the part ends with a huge disclosure just before they reached the Shattered Plains. This is similar to Kaladin's parallel story which was quite dull in part 1 but got very engaging in this part: His horse riding lessons are hilarious and there is enough stuff for mystery fans to keep engaged, as he tries to fathom a assassination attempt.
But the real assassin - Szeth - lures in the background, killing highprinces of some backwater countries and is given a short but fierce appearance.
Adolin's entry gives some nice duelling and sparring scenes between Shardbearers which weren't dull at all but very different. Sadeas schemes in the background.
Where the first part was just a long exposition, the second part took up speed and developed a nice tension arc. I sit wide-eyed, can't put down the book to see how it is going on. Gladly, the Interludes are just 10 pages to cool down.
I thought the most interesting thing to come out of this section was Syl, Pattern and the Stormfather all saying that the humans would betray and kill the spren. Kind of getting annoyed that Kaladin keeps holding back telling Dalinar about what he can do.
Mod
Smoke form sounds especially ominous:
Smokeform for hiding and slipping 'tween men.
A form of power--like Surges of spren.
Crafted of the gods, this form we fear.
By Unmade touch its curse to bear,
Formed from shadow--and death is near. It lies
As this section went on, I was curious where things with Tyn would go. I didn't suspect she was the leader of the assassins who attacked (killed?) Jasnah.
I forgot all about Shallan having a shard blade. Does anyone remember when in WoK we find that out? I'd like to look that up in the summaries. Or can anyone refresh my memory on what we know about her having one?
I disagree about Shallan's story dragging. I find I like her more and more with each chapter. I feel like I could sit and watch her draw. The pacing always seems to be the number one complaint I've seen about WoK, and it seems like some people are saying that again here, but I just don't have that issue I guess.
Bill wrote: "I thought the most interesting thing to come out of this section was Syl, Pattern and the Stormfather all saying that the humans would betray and kill the spren."
Yeah, neither Shallan nor Kaladin have malicious intentions towards their spren, so one can only assume it's accidental? Or that using their surgebinding changes them somehow? Or at least that's what the storm father expects maybe based on the actions of past surgebinders? We know the spren feel betrayed by humans from something in the past, but the details aren't very clear at this point.
"Kind of getting annoyed that Kaladin keeps holding back telling Dalinar about what he can do."
I guess I am a little too, but it's totally in his character. He needs to learn to fully trust him before that happens. His betrayal from previous light eye's are just too deep for him to grow in this regard anytime soon.
I think it's going to take a heroic act from Dalinar on Kaladin or his men's behalf to really have it sink home. The sacrifice of his shardblade isn't enough.
@Rob - This is the first instance where Shallan finally shows she has a shard blade. In WOK there are a few times when Shallan thinks about ten heartbeats. Shallan's mother also was killed by a shard blade since she had burned eyes. Think this points to Shallan killing her mother but it has never been definitely stated.
Mod
If she killed her mother, that poses a lot of questions. Everyone believes her father did it. I don't get why Shallan would do that, but we don't know much about her. Maybe Shallan was going after her father and her mother intervened?
Just a theory for now but think it is the only possible explanation.
Mod
Ah thanks for the Shard blade/Shallan explanation. As for Kaladin and Dalinar, I understand why he hasn't revealed who he is yet- Dalinar has not done anything about Amaras. I have reached Alex's annoyance with Shallans sketching, it's too much. This is more a comment on the writing than her character. At the risk of being yelled at, I find Sanderson's writing to be lightweight compared to Eriikson and others. There's a predictability which would subtract a star for me but on the other hand the lighter touch makes for an easier read which can be enjoyable.
Mod
Rob wrote: "Yeah, I guess I prefer the lightweight then, because I enjoy this series a lot more than Malazan."Blasphemy.
Rob, I was worried you were gonna boot me from the group!
Mod
Meh. Erikson frustrates me too much. If the world and the characters (some of them anyways) weren't so interesting, I would have given up the series awhile ago.
Sanderson just seems to write the kind of books I want to read. Especially this series so far.
Mod
Mod
People are entitled to their opinions. You're not going to convince me to agree with you, just that you have different preferences than I do.
I was joking of course. Obviously I enjoy Sanderson immensely. His imagination is fantastic, he has complexities and mysteries that grip my own imagination. And I love his cosmere and creation myths. I know he's a practicing Mormon and don't know enough to compare that with his concepts but I am fascinated in an anthropologist way by comparative religion study and find that sf and fantasy address religion a lot.
Oh and we find out that the safe hand covering is for modesty! How weird since the other hand is fine. Doesn't make sense just like most gender rules in real life.
Mod
Rob wrote: "Another thing I just remembered. Kaladin loses his arm to a shardblade attack, yet is able to heal it. I wonder if this is something special, or just the stormlight. I was worried it would hurt Syl..."I was kind of disapointed that he didn't attempt to heal Hobber's legs after finding out he could repair his arm.
Mod
The problem with a few of you being ahead of me and these sections being so long, I keep forgetting everything I wanted to bring up.
Kaladin believes the railing could only have been cut after the storm, which severely limits the list of suspects. Is it possible Moash is a shardbearer? Or at least an accomplice to one? He was supposed to be off shift. Did he stay late out of a sense of duty, or for nefarious purposes? Maybe he's a red herring.
And why such a crude attempt?
Rob wrote: "The problem with a few of you being ahead of me and these sections being so long, I keep forgetting everything I wanted to bring up."I am feeling the same way. Its hard responding to older sections when I can't remember where that section left off. Section 6 was particularly hard since it is 275 pages.
Amen! Is there any way we have the future threads be for less chapters, I feel we are missing some good discussion.I suspected Moash we are supposed to.
And I think Kaladin was out of storm light so couldn't heal anyone. I also wonder can he heal others or just his own body can absorb the light?
Kaladin can only heal himself. It's another enhancement given to him by Stormlight, like increased speed/reflexes and the ability to heal minor (and sometimes major) wounds--like when he was strung up during the highstorm. He wouldn't be able to use it on anyone else. Healing someone else is an entirely different Surge than what Kaladin has access to.
Mod
I debated how to break up the discussion. I didn't want too many threads so I eventually settled on using how the book was already broken up. I should have looked closer at the page count though and split the larger parts in two at least. Oh well.
Ah well indeed, we'll make it work. :)
Rob wrote: "Another thing I just remembered. Kaladin loses his arm to a shardblade attack, yet is able to heal it. I wonder if this is something special, or just the stormlight. I was worried it wo..."That is a very valid question. Sanderson develops hard rules for his magic systems. Once you figure out that rule set, it isn't difficult to predict and explain some actions. I don't know how it is for you, but I love figuring them out. I know from others who just want to be surprised and get into the flow if things instead of discussing on a meta-level.
We know a Surgebinder can heal himself consuming Stormlight - you virtually can't cut down a KR as long as he's got enough Stormlight. That goes for amputed limbs as well - even if cut by a Shardweapon or a honorblade.
(view spoiler)
We don't know everything about Surges (e.g. the exact distribution of surges to the orders) but concerning healing others we know enough to sort out why Kaladin couldn't apply it.
- there are ten (holy number!) surges and as far as I've seen, every KR order can use two Surges.
(view spoiler)
- Kaladin is a Windrunner.
- Windrunners have the two Surges of Adhesion (Stick me to the Wall!) and Gravitation (flying, yeah!).
No healing of others for Kaladin using Surges, sorry. Which is somewhat surprising for me given his background as a healer. Of course, he could apply his "normal" healing capabilities, but that won't bring back amputated legs.
Mod
If you want to discuss this topic the larger context of the book, you can always create a new topic and mark it as having book-wide spoilers.
Thanks.
Sorry, I thought that I wouldn't spoiler anything but somehow got confused by "section 4" vs. "part 2."I just put a spoiler around that.
Come on, give me a break. I'm an old man and don't need to be rushed ;)
Mod
I wasn't rushing you. You posted to say how you had put it in tags, and I didn't see any. You could have just waited to post that until you know..you actually put stuff in tags. ^_^
We knew Shallon had a shard blade from WOK. She mentioned she had it in the alley when Jasnah killed those 4 thieves and then again she summoned it for a brief moment when she accidently soul casted. From the flashbacks we know she didn't kill her mother, she was five and didn't have the blade then. That's why she hates her father and we know she did kill him.I'm glad she finally used it though. I was disliking her more and more. She just comes off kind of selfish to me. She seems to barely even mourn Jasnah's or the shipmates death. She could have helped dispatched the bandits with her shard blade and saved lives. And she seems to only care about herself. She was just using Tyn and taking Kaladin's boots was petty and borderline cruel. She knows a regular dark eyed soldier wouldn't have an extra pair lying around. And her constant second guessing and self questioning was driving me crazy. Anyway, that was a mini rant. I'm glad she finally took some action.
Mod
I think what this book is mainly about is her development and finding herself as she explores her the world for the first time and discovers what she's capable of as a surgebinder.
Mod
I agree that she seems to be growing. I just feel like if someone has gone through the experiences she has they would be more prone to action. But I guess different character resonate with different people. I don't want to offend anyone but I am just not a big fan of hers. I do concede that some of it may be her being naive but she has actually been through quite a lot if you think about it. Gaz! Have you noticed how Shallon keeps noticing him quickly looking to the side? In the WOK it briefly show Gaz's POV and he talked about how he is concerned about missing something in the darkness of his missing eye and is constantly glancing to see. I love the detail and consitency of Sanderson's writing.
Mod
And I didn't notice the head turning thing. That's really cool. You have a much better eye for detail than I.
Well in your defense you probably read WOK a while ago while I read it like a month ago haha. Switching subject. I like how Adolin is getting more attention with the duels and his suspicion of Kaladin. I really hope Moesh isn't wasn't the one to sabotage the railing. It has to be a shardbearer. Could it be Ranaren? He's tough to figure out.
When and how did Shallan get the blade, could someone remind me? Since I forgot she had one it does seem odd that she didn't use it on the ship or that it wasn't even mentioned earlier. I agree she can be annoying but remember for awhile when younger she was catatonic so action is not natural for her. Plus she's a scholar and artist by temperament, so again not action. She's not my favorite, and psychologically doesn't make sense but I am interested in her plot.
We don't know how she got the blade. During WOK I assumed her father was a shardbearer and she took his blade when she killed him but maybe she somehow got ahold of her brother's blade. I can't remember if her oldest brother is dead or alive. I do like pattern.
Oh! Forgot she killed her father! Good info!I don't like how she kept the boots.
Edit: oh haha right after I wrote that she returned them! Good that was pissing me off a little. I'm looking forward to them finding out about each other.
I am very interested to see how Shallan acquired the blade. When Renarin acquired his blade he had to keep it solid for a week to bond so I am guessing Shallan did also. I can't see her brothers letting her keep the blade if it was her fathers or brothers.
Mod
Lori (Hellian) wrote: "She's not my favorite, and psychologically doesn't make sense but I am interested in her plot."
I have to respectfully disagree. I think her psychological state makes a lot of sense. Everything she does is basically a defense mechanism. Not using her Shardblade, not thinking about the past, drawing almost nonstop, deferring to others instead of taking charge of the situation. Even the way she turns everything into a joke. It's all a way to deal with the pain of her past. She's nearly as broken as Kaladin, in her own way.
Granted, they have completely opposite ways of dealing with their scars--Kaladin by clinging to hatred and always preparing for the worst, Shallan by ignoring the darkness and treating everything with flippancy. It can be endearing to people who also tend to go about life in a kind of carefree way (Yalb, Adolin) or annoying and aggravating to people (like Kaladin) who take everything super seriously.
Personally, I really like Shallan, flaws and all. I can't honestly say she's my favorite character (please, with people like Rock, Lopen, Wit, and Syl around? Let's be reasonable here.) But she feels very human to me, and I can see her becoming an awesome character as the series progresses.
I have to respectfully disagree. I think her psychological state makes a lot of sense. Everything she does is basically a defense mechanism. Not using her Shardblade, not thinking about the past, drawing almost nonstop, deferring to others instead of taking charge of the situation. Even the way she turns everything into a joke. It's all a way to deal with the pain of her past. She's nearly as broken as Kaladin, in her own way.
Granted, they have completely opposite ways of dealing with their scars--Kaladin by clinging to hatred and always preparing for the worst, Shallan by ignoring the darkness and treating everything with flippancy. It can be endearing to people who also tend to go about life in a kind of carefree way (Yalb, Adolin) or annoying and aggravating to people (like Kaladin) who take everything super seriously.
Personally, I really like Shallan, flaws and all. I can't honestly say she's my favorite character (please, with people like Rock, Lopen, Wit, and Syl around? Let's be reasonable here.) But she feels very human to me, and I can see her becoming an awesome character as the series progresses.
Mod
Hmm maybe I don't get how she recovered from being catatonic in that household. That's a severe state of being for a young girl and she has no nurturing figure at home. That's not explained to me.
Personally, I'm not convinced that a Shardblade killed Shallan's mother. She clearly says "blood on the carpet." a Shardblade wouldn't create an open wound. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the death was an accident. The husband with anger issues is too obvious an answer, considering how pivotal this "murder" is.And I'm trying to remember, was there a second body? Who was that person?
I have to find the passage where Shallan gives a description of the mother's murder. The second person was her mother's lover who was laying in a pool of blood. I am 90% sure that Shallan describes her mother as having burnt eyes but will be able to confirm once I find the two passage.
Mod
I hope this is something we find out in this book with all the flashbacks though.
I may be going out on a limb here, but I have this feeling that Shallan's mother killed herself.Shallan's dad kills her lover and Shallan feels guilty for bringing her Dad to the room or something like that. At this point she still seems to feel bad for her Dad instead of hating him... Which I think Shallan would if Dad killed Mom.
Hopefully we find out this book!
Mod
Please keep all discussion to the events and speculation to the Part 2: Winds' Approach (Chapters 13-34).
No spoiler tags required. Though it would be highly appreciated if you Uncheck Add to my Update Feed to avoid accidentally spoiling this for your good read friends.
Please do not discuss events from later chapters. Referring back to events from the previous sections /book is fine.