The House of Hades
discussion
Am I the only person who likes Nico even after everything?
♫~Kelly~♫ wrote: "Finy wrote: "Learning about "The birds and the bees" is much different than learning about the fact that there are gay people in the world. There are tons of kids movies with "straight" romances...."It is proven that some kids know they are gay from a very young age. It is possible that none of your closest friends are gay and a lot of times when people are first coming out they only tell their closest friends who they know will not judge them and who will keep it a secret. At the age we are at this is the time when people do start to question there sexuality but never tell anyone. So, even if no one has come up to you and said, "Hey there, just thought you should know, I'm gay" you probably have peers who are questioning. Also I'm sure there are gays in your school. Even if you don't know they are. 1 out of every ten people is gay/lesbian/transgender so even if you don't know it you have met or talked to someone who is gay.
Anamika wrote: "♫~Kelly~♫ wrote: "Finy wrote: "Learning about "The birds and the bees" is much different than learning about the fact that there are gay people in the world. There are tons of kids movies with "s..."Thanks for seeing my point!
♫~Kelly~♫ wrote: "I don't necessarily agree about kids learning about this at such a young age. It's like learning about "the birds and the bees", its more of a subject to learn once your older and can understand i..."What is not to understand about a boy liking another boy though? Overall, I think that it's important for children to accept others, and being gay is something that kids should accept.
Finy wrote: "Anamika wrote: "♫~Kelly~♫ wrote: "Finy wrote: "Learning about "The birds and the bees" is much different than learning about the fact that there are gay people in the world. There are tons of kids..."....Uh, I'm pretty sure she was agreeing with 'my' point.
And I agree with Chaitali. People need to except that gay people exist. It is when people say that gays are unnatural and horrible that suicide happens. Even if you aren't outright saying that it, ignoring it is just as bad. Feeling alone and ignored is just as bad. You are basically saying that we should wait to tell people about gays until they are 15. Do you really want people to feel alone and not understood until they are 15? Something in that just doesn't seem right.
Anamika wrote: "Yes it does.Personally in my school,if they are told before 12 they will not accept gays but tease them.This is an example from my own life and this must be going around the world.I would let those..."Well, the blame in the case you provided lies with the bullies, not the victim. And while I cannot guarantee that examples of LGBT+ characters in books and other media will put a stop to all bullying of sexual and gender minorities, a significant portion likely will, as they see sexual orientation isn't something to bully over or be ashamed of. Ideally, our society will reach a point where sexual orientation isn't an issue at all.
Anamika wrote: "Yes it does.Personally in my school,if they are told before 12 they will not accept gays but tease them.This is an example from my own life and this must be going around the world.I would let those people feel alone until 15 rather than getting teased.Besides how do you know that everyone are going to accept gays if they are added in books? "I find it funny that instead of trying to stop the bullies, you protest a book that encourages discussion about topics such as these.
The book isn't the problem. It's the fixed mindset of the people who read them that's the problem. The way to fix it is to at least try to teach them tolerance or change their view on things. Obviously, that would not work 100% of the time, but to shut down a book that, expectedly, has good AND bad repercussions that come from the representation of LGBT+ people does not make much sense.
You'd rather Rick want to avoid offending anyone to prevent 12 year olds to act upon their prejudices INSTEAD of empowering those in need of empowerment, such as those in the LGBT+? You want Rick to take into account every single possible reaction to this series and avoid ANY negative reactions (which is impossible, as there is always negative blowback to even the best intentioned actions), such as people like your friends, and completely ignore the positives (which, by the way outnumber the negatives)?
Jason literally accepts Nico and states that it doesn't change anything, as Nico is still the same person. If people are getting the wrong message, it's not Rick's fault, as the reason that people would use this fact to hurt other people is if they already have a mindset against gay people. Which, apparently, are people at your school. However, for kids who are not already prejudiced, it can help them ACCEPT these facts and that's why it's important. Also, they reach to those who thought they were alone (like Finy up there) and aren't apparently receiving support from people like your friends in their time of need. Rick can't change every single already prejudiced mind and make it tolerant, so it's better to at least allow the little kids who don't know to accept it and help them understand, which far outnumbers those like your friends.
Sure, you can wish he hadn't written it, that's your opinion. But the fact that you'd rather him avoid the problem (WHICH doesn't solve anything and only allows people to go on in their ignorance and blindly follow what is fed to them by their potentially intolerant parents instead of question their beliefs) than actively try and help the people he can help says a lot about your perspective.
And -- keep in mind that the people at your school, even if they don't agree with it, can be taught to at least respect it. Even if they are 12 years old. I know plenty of 12 years old who are completely fine with it, some that aren't completely fine with it but do not bully others just because of that. From what I see, in your situation, bullying is the problem here. Sure, HoH might have been the catalyst in some situations BUT you are avoiding the real problem, which would have reared its ugly head with or without HoH, sooner or later.
Also, since no one seemed to reply to my earlier post:
What makes the acts I posted above okay for kids to read if the mere existence of a LGBT+ person is apparently not okay? Wouldn't you say incest, bestiality, or abusive relationships are more inappropriate? I'm honestly confused about why only now people have been saying that it isn't appropriate, and that no one protested about those things??????? That kind of logic does not make much sense to me. You can't just cherry pick the "inappropriate" things to fit your argument.
I think the reason that people didn't protest to those things earlier was because they weren't as obvious as this. Despite this, I completely agree with you. Those things are a problem. Being gay isn't. Being gay is hurting anyone unless the have a prejudice or are homophobic and in that case it is that person's fault. You can't help being gay, you can help committing incest or violence.
I LOVE NICO AND HIS CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT MAKES ME LOVE HIM EVEN MORE!
♫~Kelly~♫ wrote: "Anamika wrote: "Is there anyone else who agrees with me that Nico is actually a good character and Rick kind of spoiled his image by adding something unnecessary?"Nico was one of my favorite char..."
I understand why uncle Rick did that. He wanted LGBT people to not feel.. bad. I think it's a good development because Nico is just a strong, great example for people that have similar personality with him
♫~Kelly~♫ wrote: "Maya wrote: "no Nico hating allowed!!Yeah!! It's not okay to judge someone like that. It's like, "Oh, I didn't know Annabeth had gray eyes. I don't like her now." Nico is who he is and there is n..."
sorry, but I think you're wrong.
I like the sarcasm, unfortunately there are some people who probably think something along those lines.
Not everyone will but for some if they see things like this in their favorite books they might realize that it isn't taboo and that it is okay to be different.
LOL? This is stupid. The only one? everyone loves Nico lmao smh.
I would agree, but there are other people who wouldn't.
Anamika wrote: "I'll repeat my question once again and I hope it won't be ignored:how do you know that everyone are going to accept gays if they are added in books?"But how do you know they won't? I think it helps people understand differences at least and perhaps respect them . And children should understand that people are different from them and if one kid changes their mind, then that's good!
Honestly, I am sick of this discussion. I clearly see things my way, and the rest of you another. I'm done.
Anamika wrote: "Well I do.They are prone to getting the wrong idea."But they should be educated so they can decide one way or the other. People will think what they will but it is always better to know the truth of how something is.
Where do you come from? And yeah I do but people are going to judge whichever way they want but they should have the option to choose. Also if a gay person starts having feeling like Nico and they know nothing about it what is going to happen to them?
I love everything about Nico and I have nothing against gay rights. Period. :)
Yeah, and you want to know what else happens all over the world? People not feeling excepted because they have no idea what is happening to them. Been there, it sucks. It is always better to know the truth and understand it.
No. At first, in the Titan's Curse, i really didn't like him. Now, he's one of my favorite characters!
His personality in Titan's Curse and his personality in the rest of the books are totally different, but he was always gay.
Straight people having a problem with gay people is like gay people having a problem with straight people. We are all just people and we all exist. Honestly, and I hope you don't take offense, you just have to deal with it.
Anamika wrote: "I'll repeat my question once again and I hope it won't be ignored:how do you know that everyone are going to accept gays if they are added in books?"Don't you get it? I thought I made this explicitly clear but whatever.
THAT ISN'T THE POINT. BECAUSE IT IS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR EVERYONE TO ACCEPT IT.
And that doesn't matter.
The point of the book is NOT to get everyone to accept gay people. That is literally impossible. There are always going to be people who don't agree, and to think otherwise would be naive. For example, there are still plenty of racist and sexist people out there, right? By your logic, if HoH did not make EVERYONE accept gay people, causing the inclusion of Nico's sexuality to be inherently useless (according to you), that is like saying that the Civil Rights Movement or feminist movement is useless because there are still racist and sexist people in the world. Which is obviously not true. I really don't know how I can be more straightforward about this.
One goal is simply to get MORE people aware and tolerant, not necessarily all (again, that is impossible). Despite your experiences, while perfectly valid, your experiences do not reflect the majority's reaction to Nico's sexuality, and what is being targeted with HoH is the majority, just like the majority of people these days(that I know of, at least, as there are still countries that are) are not racist and sexist. And I'm not even including the beneficial reactions for the LGBT+ community. Representation is VERY important, and Nico provides that.
But isn't it better that Rick help SOME people rather than NONE? Because the positives greatly outnumber the negatives. Granted, there are negatives, but there are negatives to literally everything.
And have you thought at all about the bullying issue, instead? Did you even read my post? (message 275) I literally address most, if not all, of the points you have. I feel like you are purposely being ignorant and you don't want to see other peoples' point of view. Like Carthya said, you don't want to be convinced. But to ignore opposing view points such as mine (at the moment) shows that you have no answer to the stuff I raised up.
God. These threads literally always go in loops and loops. Just like the other ones. In the end, it feels like no one else wants to hear any other peoples' opinions anymore, and instead just want to hear their own. Smh.
Anamika wrote: "Thanks for the big lecture but like I said before,if you could wait for a day,I'll make another point clear. "Hopefully you'll address the bullying issue then! Because if anyone is getting teased or hurt by other people because of the book, that is bullying, and the fault lies in the individual who is teasing, not the book!!
What do you even mean? Bullying is bullying and it hurts.
Anamika wrote: "Is there anyone else who agrees with me that Nico is actually a good character and Rick kind of spoiled his image by adding something unnecessary?"Same here, I didn't understand why Riordan kept bringing up Nico's "split loyalty". Yes he lured Percy to Hades' palace, but that was one time and he didn't have a choice.
I actually think Nico contributed A Lot to the Gods' side. Making Percy invincible was one of the most important moves in the battle of Manhattan.
I love Nico!! Even if he is gay I have the same feelings for Alec I dont care if they are gay or not, they are hot, they are cute and i love their personalities its simply they are good characters
I totally agree with you! I love them soooooo much!
I agree that he is an amazing character and there is nothing wrong with gay people being in a kids book. I agree that there is nothing wrong with gays.
Sooooo...Anamika, you said you would make a post explaining everything two days ago? It's been three days...
I don't care to be honest!
Anamika wrote: "Is there anyone else who agrees with me that Nico is actually a good character and Rick kind of spoiled his image by adding something unnecessary?"I honestly think he totally wrecked Nico's character and tainted the entire series. It was totally unnecessary and that he has now turned the books into a battleground. Readers will be going round and round fighting about him and it's really disgusted me that I've had to block several FB and tumblr areas due to people who now want Percy and Nico to be a couple. It's extremely disappointing and I think Rick should never have included that in the books.
Anamika wrote: "Well I'm not always free you know.I'm kind of busy for so time. "Well, I mean you seem to be commenting on this thread regularly, so I assumed you would have time to post another comment that you said you would post four days ago but maybe I'm just being ridiculous to think that!!!!
Some people really make me want to tear my hair out dafuq? How is Nico being gay not suitable for 9-12 year olds? Why are you reading 9-12 year old books anyway? My brother is ten and he uses gay as an insult, six year olds know what gay is. Why would you censor sexual orientation? So it's okay for them to be straight but not gay? That is bad citizenship. I love Nico even more now that some fake former 'fans' are rejecting him. If you don't like it then seriously find another book. It just seriously irritates me, it's just like saying they shouldn't put black people in the books because little white children might read it (no offense , I'm mixed race) but seriously people -_- stop the hate and homophobia and as for it being 'totally unnecessary' what does that have to do both anything? That's so homophobic I can't even urrrg! This is probably why my brother who's gay doesn't want to come out of the closet. I already spent hours drilling it into all the boys in my class's head that there's nothing wrong with Nico being gay and I'm so not willing to do it online
Waiting, I'm curious to know what your big "point" is
You love himYou hate him
You love him again
Cycle continues
btw.its been half a month.
were you ever gonna make a post?
Amamika, the reason Cecerose and others keep bringing up the fact you said you'd make another post is because every single time anyone disagreed with you you said "wait, I'll explain it in another post soon" (paraphrasing here). This miraculous post has yet to appear. Whilst I understand you're probably busy, typing a long post will take maybe 5 minutes. If you simply don't want to respond to our arguments, please say so. I have now decided it is highly unlikely we will ever stop you from believing what you do - a belief founded thousands of years ago in a religion you probably do not follow, then picked up by many other faiths who then convinced their followers to agree, and so on and so on until your parents and culture told you the same. Virtually all opinions go through that system. I'm going to take another break from this thread. It's not worth my time attempting to explain why there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with this.
Okay. Sorry I reread my comment and I feel like a b*tch. It wasn't all directed at you, just kinda a chance to rant I guess.
Unbroken Silence wrote: "Amamika, the reason Cecerose and others keep bringing up the fact you said you'd make another post is because every single time anyone disagreed with you you said "wait, I'll explain it in anoth..."Yup. Basically what she said. Because right now it just seems like you're trying to avoid the issue.
Anamika wrote: "Is there anyone else who agrees with me that Nico is actually a good character and Rick kind of spoiled his image by adding something unnecessary?"
no I still love nico although I am not a percico shipper. percabeth all the way
no I still love nico although I am not a percico shipper. percabeth all the way
Finy wrote: "Waiting, I'm curious to know what your big "point" is"Did that, you still don't have a point. I love in Nigeria, easily the most homophobic country in the world. What happens if I read the book in public? Nothing, absolutely nothing
Hey. He's cool anyway. no matter what, really. it shocked me so that I slightly wished that Percy would somehow stick in Tartarus mournfully and with a sleepless night of thinking and thinking and thinking. But still a better love story than twilight,nope?;)
Anamika wrote: "Is there anyone else who agrees with me that Nico is actually a good character and Rick kind of spoiled his image by adding something unnecessary?"Dude.
*fistbump*
I agree. And I couldn't have said it better myself.
Here's my point:Nico: I liked him better in the first series. I think it was just because he seemed more like Nico, but you know. He's still awesome in this one. The gay thing though: I respect Rick's view on this and I understand why he did it, because kids like this need to be treated like normal people. They shouldn't be shunned by society. But this is a kid's series. Yes, there are devotee fans reading this that are older. I understand that. But I've seen 9 year olds with a copy of the House of Hades in their hands, reading through it like it's nothing. Most of these 9 year olds have caring parents who don't want them exposed to this stuff until they are older. Yes, I was "exposed" at a younger age but that was because I was more mature. My brother didn't understand until he was older because he wasn't ready. Some parents like to tell their kids about this stuff instead of them finding out about what it is in a book. Second) it didn't fit Nico's character to like somebody, now did it? Once Bianca died, he was all creepy. Creepy. In HoH, he was described as angry. Brooding, even. Not creepy. Not the guy who spent more time with the dead than the living. Not the guy who was so distant that you just wanted to tie him down to Earth. No. He was angry. He was dark. He was brooding. The whole part where Nico is discovered made no sense to me. It was too sudden. People are like, "It was the best plot twist ever" and I'm like, "No. It wasn't even a plot twist. It didn't change the plot at all. Heck, the book would've been the same if it wasn't added at all." I read through that part and I'm just...no. It's confusing. Because Nico has always not liked living people. He's a guy that you would imagine couldn't have a crush on anyone. Again, I respect Rick's opinion on this, and I think it's great, but it didn't have a place in this series or in this character. It didn't snap into place nicely.
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In the Percy Jackson series and the Heroes of Olympus series alone, these aspects have been featured:
Abusive relationships
Racism
Murder
Rape (which is prevalent in Greek Mythology)
Incest
Bestiality
Patricide
Homicide
Bullying
And much, MUCH more.
So....how come Nico being gay is the most upsetting thing for you guys?
Why is it just now that people are protesting about the "PG" ness of this series?
Is the mere existence of non-straight people that upsetting for you?
If people don't "understand" this issue, why not educate them on tolerance instead of shitting all over a book that contains topics that an author is free to write about if he wants to?
I think the most ironic part of these Nico threads about him being gay is that in Greek Mythology, there are probably as much gay relationships as straight relationships. Google it, it you must.