European Royalty discussion
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What have you read lately?
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Sara W
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Sep 27, 2008 08:34AM
Welcome to the group Cera! I'm glad you found us! Those WWI books sound great - that's a subject I've really wanted to learn more about (all I really know is trenches and gas and Franz Ferdinand).
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Well, I've decided to ditch my other book club for a while so I can get back to my Jean Plaidy books (I read from William the Conqueror to Elizabeth I pretty much straight through but then got sidetracked by book club reading). I'm reading Madame Serpent which is her first book in a trilogy about Catherine de Medici. It's pretty good so far.
I've read the Lymond books and they are excellent but not an easy breezy read - you need your thinking cap on.
Hello, all!I'm new to the group - just found you all a week or so ago and I've been stalking the threads since then. You all have given me a whole list of books I can't wait to read - thanks for that!
I read my first historical fiction just this year. I read (very reluctantly!) The Other Boleyn Girl for a book club group and was hooked. Since then I've read all of Philippa Gregory's Tudor novels, some Allison Wier, and a few by Susan Holloway Scott.
I just finished To the Tower Born by Robin Maxwell, and I'm currently reading To Hold the Crown, by Jean Plaidy. I've heard lots of great things about Plaidy, but I'm finding this book a bit dry - wondering if that's true of all her books, or if this one is particularly slow?
Again, thanks to everyone for all the reviews, I can't wait to start some of the books you've mentioned!
Mandy
I'm currently reading The Other Queen by Phillipa Gregory and I love it. I absolutely love this site because I am a huge historical fiction fan but I have a hard time finding new reads. I scour the shelves at Barnes and Noble but you can't necessarily find some of the older publications. Keep up the suggestions! I keep a huge list with me at all times just in case I am stranded somewhere near a book store. :)
Welcome Mandy and Jill!Mandy, who is To Hold the Crown about? It's not an original Jean Plaidy title (a lot of her books are being republished with new titles, and I have almost all of her books with the old titles, so I'm not sure which one that is and I've been trying to figure it out). I love Plaidy, but some of her books are better than others. I absolutely love her book on Katherine of Aragon (it's a trilogy, but I believe it is currently published as one book called Katherine of Aragon). I also really really like The Queen's Secret about Catherine of Valois. I would give one of those a try - if you don't like them, Plaidy's probably just not an author you like (it certainly happens!). She tends to stick really close to history, so her books may not seem as exciting as other authors who branch out and take a lot of creative liberties (such as Philippa Gregory). Also, her books were written primarily from the 1950s to 1990s, so they are probably tamer then books being written now which could also make it seem dry.
Sara,I looked in the book - it says it was originally published as Uneasy Lies the Head. It's supposed to be the 'love story' of Elizabeth and Henry VII - but it was anything but! No love whatsoever in the book. Henry and Elizabeth didn't even seem to like each other, lol. I finished it last night and was dissapointed - the first Historical Fiction I've really felt that way about :(
It was very tame, but I'd guess that was as much a result of the people she was writing about as it was about her writing, kwim?
I read that it's the first of a 9 book series on the Tudors. Next up is Katherine of Aragon - not sure if I'll take a chance on that or not.
I have a stack of books from the library. Just need to decide which I want to start with! Off to read some reviews...
Okay, I did read Uneasy Lies the Head, and that's the book I thought it might be. Sometimes I see it as the first of Plaidy's Tudor series, but I also see it as the last of her Plantagenet series (I have an old copy, and I think that's what mine says). I'm surprised they called it a love story, because you are right Mandy, there certainly isn't much love there! That book didn't really stick out to me as one of Plaidy's best.I thought Katherine of Aragon was really really excellent (I've read it multiple times and gave it 5 stars), so you may want to give it a chance, and it is quite a sweet love story (in the early years for Katherine and Henry anyway). If you want a true love story, go with The Queen's Secret. It's wonderful (but sadly bittersweet). Either one of those Plaidy books are great (if you like Plaidy) and stand out from the rest.
Sara,I'll give both a try! I love a Katherine of Aragon story...Philippa Gregory's The Constant Princess was one of my favorites - even though it was highly fictionalized! Katherine is such a sympathetic character.
I just read a synopsis of The Queens Secret and it looks wonderful! I'll put it on hold at the Library - thanks for the recomendation :)
No problem Mandy! I bought The Queens Secret for a friend for her birthday. She had never read Plaidy before, and she really liked it (even though she's not much of a historical fiction reader as far as I know).I have The Constant Princess, so I'll have to give it a try. I know Gregory is highly fictionalized, so I have to prep myself to read her and keep in mind that it's fiction that's simply meant to be enjoyed as fiction!
I just read a book only slightly connected to Royal Lit, but it was so good I'll share anyway. It was called His Majesty's Dragon by Naomi Novik. It's basically a story set during the times of the Napoleonic Wars, but with the added benefit of dragons. :) I was a bit skeptical at first, but a lot of people I respect suggested it to me and I just raced through it. It was really great and a fun departure from some of the more serious things I had been reading. The dragon, Temeraire, is one of the best characters I've encountered in a long time. Very fun read! Right now, I'm slowly savoring A Clash of Kings, which is as amazing as all of George R.R. Martin's books are. At least this particular series.
I haven't been able to get to either of our book club books over the last few months, but I just got two Sharon Kay Penman books from the library - Falls the Shadow and When Christ and His Saints Slept. Any suggestions for where I should start? I read and loved Here Be Dragons so I'm excited to get further into that series!
"I know Gregory is highly fictionalized, so I have to prep myself to read her and keep in mind that it's fiction that's simply meant to be enjoyed as fiction!"I really wish more people would realize that and take her books with a grain of salt. Although she's now touting herself as a serious historian.
Apparently PG's going to write about the Plantagenets in her next books, the first being about Elizabeth Woodiville.
I've been pretty critical of Gregory in the past, and I don't know if I'll ever like her books, but I'm trying to see her books for what they are - fiction. It kind of scares me though that she's considering herself a serious historian! I mostly get frustrated when people say how historically accurate her books are when they are not. Nevertheless, I keep trying to tell myself that her books are meant to entertain, not educate, and that people who really want to know what happened will find the appropriate resources (hopefully!). I credit this group for helping me mellow out about Gregory! People had really good comments in The Other Boleyn thread and our thread about historical fiction (how much fiction, how much history).
She's pretty much lost me as a reader, even if the reviews coming in for The Other Queen were better than they are. I know we all have to be grateful that she got us reading HF anyway but personally she's gotten a bit full of herself. What really set me off was her high handed intros to the reprints of Anya Seton's books. I think it was Avalon that was almost down right snotty and put down the book, and then in Devil Water where she insinuated an incestuous relationship with the father and daughter (and I haven't heard anyone else picking up on that).
I bought The Lives of the Kings and Queens of England (edited by Antonia Fraser) as a reference book. Even though PG books are necessarily historically accurate, they are fun and they got me interested in the genre of historical fiction. But, it is always nice to have a good reference book to check out facts along the way.I am currently reading the Other Queen and it is definitely entertaining. I haven't done my research yet to check facts (I try to wait until the end).
Before my first Philippa Gregory novel all I read was American historical fiction. I credit her for hooking me into European royal history. Her novels were so entertaining that when I read the first one I thought "this can't be 100% accurate." I went on to read everything else she had out at the time. (I tend to do this when I find a new author LOL)Once I was finished with her, I wanted to find out the truth. I guess it was like solving a puzzle for me. What was real and what was fictionalized. Once I started reading more historically accurate novels I truly fell in love with Euoropean royalty. I've been hooked ever since.
Maybe if PG's novels hadn't piqued my interest I wouldn't be reading what I do today! That would be terrible because I LOVE my European history! ;)
BUT Misfit, I know exactly what you mean. I cannot remember for the life of me what book she wrote an entry for, but anyway, I remember thinking who does she think she is? Wow.
I give her credit for helping popularize Eurpoean history and get people interested in it, but she is by no means a historian. Just like Sara said I hope people realize her books are fiction and that is what I appreciate them as. Fiction.
All, an interesting interview with Greggory, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/...Jenny, check out Sharon Kay Penman. Her medievals are fabulous, she's got quite a talent for taking the most complex political situations and putting them into a story that educates and entertains at the same time.
Not to take away from this board (since it is only European royalty) a great place to talk all things historical is here, http://www.historicalfictiononline.co...
We've got a published author or two, as well as many book bloggers and plain old readers like me :)
Thanks for the link to the PG interview, Misfit. She does answer one question about historical accuracy. I enjoy reading historical fiction with a grain of salt for entertainment value and researching later to know the facts. That way you get fun and knowledge. :)
Yeah, I enjoyed The Other Boleyn Girl as a NOVEL, but there's a reason I voted for it on the "Most Inaccurate Historical Fiction" list over at Listopia!
Okay. I am going to say "uncle" on the PG argument. :) Then who would any of you recommend for an author of historical fiction that provides BOTH entertainment and accuracy?
If you're looking at the Tudors I'm out of my depth - I'll leave that to others Margaret Campbell Barnes? Jean Plaidy? Are you looking for a particular era or just well written historicals in general? There's always MM Kaye if you want to delve into 19C India during the British Raj.My two fav's are both writers of the medieval period. There's Sharon Kay Penman who has written two trilogies, one about the Civil War between Stephen and Maude and continuing the story of Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine and their children. Then there's her Welsh trilogy which covers King John's reign through to his son Henry III and then Edward I (of Braveheart fame) and their battles with the two Llewllyns (sp?) of Wales. She's also written Sunne in Splendour about Richard III.
Penman's greatest asset is to take the most complicated political situations and put them into a highly readable and entertaining book.
My other fav is Elizabeth Chadwick (from the UK, not the romance author from the US). Her earlier books are based on fictional characters and have more of a romance feel (but still very good books), but her latest books are based upon real characters in history. While not royalty, they do serve the royal families and interact with them. They really are fabulous and she's got an awesome knack of throwing in the historical details so you really feel like you're there - smells, sights, sounds, clothing, etc. She's hard to find in the US, but her books can be ordered from the Book Depository in the UK and they have free shipping.
Welcome Jenny and all you other new people!April, you're right about Philippa Gregory - so many people like you have come to this group and the genre of historical fiction because of her, and I bet the success of her books has helped some of the older books get republished much easier(by Jean Plaidy, Margaret Campbell Barnes, Anya Seton, etc.), so I've got to give her credit for that too. Misfit, I do know what you mean about the Anya Seton intros by Gregory - I thought her one for Katherine was a little too critical (I think she went on about it being so prim because of the time it was written - not all books need to be filled with sex scenes).
Jill, I try to wait until the end to fact check too. I've ruined the ending of a few books by fact checking too soon.
Jenny and Jill, I've got to agree with the Sharon Kay Penman recommendation (well researched and entertaining). Alison Weir's novel The Innocent Traitor was excellent. I personally love Jean Plaidy (well researched and entertaining as well). For Jenny in particular, she has like 80 books or so starting with William the Conqueror and going to Victoria (with little trilogies about Ferdinand and Isabella, Catherine de Medici, etc. along the way). I'm currently reading her books in chronological order (starting with William the Conqueror) and I've made my way through Elizabeth I and Catherine de Medici so far. It's been a lot of fun, especially if you like British royalty. Some of her books are in print now, but a lot aren't, so you may have to hunt for them. If you want to see most (all?) of her books take a peek at my personal jean-plaidy shelf - the books are in chronological order (at least through the books I've read).
Just read the PG interview - interesting! When I first started reading her books I went nuts looking everything up on wikipedia - I just HAD to know how much of this stuff was true!
Maybe that's why the fact that her books aren't super accurate has never bothered me - because I cared enough to find out at the outset that they weren't!
She has some impressive credentials, the education and past research to back up being an actual historian - though she obviously isn't. My take on her writing is that she does a good amount of research, enough that she has a basic idea of the real person in her head, and then she writes a 'story' about what MIGHT have happened. She's clearly got an incredible imagination! And I think that maybe sometimes she sees something differently than everyone else has and her ideas just might be right.
At first, the highly fictional stuff was all I wanted to read - more interesting, right? But as I got more entrenched in British royalty I realized that there are hundreds of books about these people because they led extraordinary lives! They're interesting even without being highly fictionalized. And so now I'll read almost anything - even straight non-fiction.
Though, I do have to admit that I love a good, PG style sex scene every once in a while :)
I'm with you Mandy. I love learning but I love juicy details. :) Thank you so much to everyone so far that has made suggestions to me. Misfit- I checked out the Book Depository and I am so excited to have another place to find books. I got a list of Elizabeth Chadwick's books by publication from her site. All the previous books are being re-released within the next couple months so it is perfect timing. I am going to order one to test the waters- it is very exciting.
Sara- I have When Christ and His Saints Slept on my list for B&N today. That will be my first encounter with Sharon Kay Penman.
You guys are awesome because you have opened up a new world to me. I thought I loved to read...but you guys have left me in the dust. :) The problem is that I only discovered historical fiction when I read The Other Boleyn Girl so I have a lot of catching up to do! Any and all suggestions are loved. I love to read about royalty to any suggestions regarding that I would appreciate. I read the Josephine Bonaparte trilogy and loved it. I would love to read more about Napoleon.
To anyone:What about Georgette Heyer? Any recommendations?
Hi Jill, hope you enjoy Chadwick and Penman as much as I have. Heyer, I've only tried her once - a book on William the Conqueror. Might have been a book slump day but the language just didn't fit and I bailed on it. I understand regencies are more her forte so perhaps that was it.For those interesting in pre-conquest England I recommend Hollick's Harold the King. Out of print, but Valerie Anand has a trilogy (only read the first one so far, but have the other two). Gildenford, The Norman Pretender and The Disputed Crown). Gildenford's kind of expensive but I lucked out and found one on the cheap at thriftbooks.
Hint, don't always take the asking price for used sellers listed on Amazon. Many times I've found better at abebooks, thriftbooks and alibrus.
Misfit - Regencies were definitely Heyer's strong point. I recall liking Cotillion and The Grand Sophy.If you are not adverse to a mystery element, C.J. Sansom's Matthew Shardlake mysteries are very good. They have a Tudor setting, on the fringes of the court of Henry VIII.
Thanks Susanna, I'll probably give Heyer another whirl one of these days when I'm in the mood. I'm not too big on mysteries, unless it's Du Maurier.
Yeah, I like historical mysteries, but they're not everyone's cup of tea, that's for sure.
Ha ha, Jill, I have to agree with you about this group opening up a whole new world! I was in a Jean Plaidy bubble when I started this group (I actually named it the Jean Plaidy group first, then realized I was a little crazy and changed it to European Royalty!). Anyhow, while the Jean Plaidy bubble I created for myself was a happy little place, it can't nearly compare to a world filled with all these other fabulous authors and books (including Plaidy of course)!
Jill, my favourite Heyer is the strange _The Masqueraders_. I can't reccomend it as a work of high literary quality, but it was a really fun romp with lots of disguise and romance and over-the-top coincidences. I also really liked both _The Unknown Ajax_ and _The Grand Sophy_.Susanna, thanks for the recommendation of C. J. Sansom! I've had a yearning for historical mysteries lately (I think it's the time of year) and picked up a bunch of random Tudor-set ones at the library, but I didn't see those.
"I was in a Jean Plaidy bubble when I started this group"Sarah, have you thought about adding other historical threads to this group? Eurpean Royalty kind of pegs you into a small whole, there are some wonderful historicals out there we might want to talk about, but they don't fit the definition of this thread so one would risk going OT. You have enough active participants you might want to give it a thought, see what the others here think.
I would definitely be game to adding more historical fiction outside European Royalty. There are some wonderful ones like The Widow of the South by Robert Hicks and Mary by Janis Cooke Newman (about Mary Todd).
I hope you enjoy Sansom's novels, if you read them, Jill - I think they're great.
Yeah, we can definitely consider expanding the scope of this group if other people are interested (or at the very least, getting some more section headings to post threads under). I'll start a thread about that idea so people can comment and give their imput.
I look forward to trying Sansom. I enjoy mysteries. Thanks for the suggestion!I am enjoying The Other Queen and I am finding Mary Queen of Scots interesting...suggestions on other historical fiction books about her?
Jean Plaidy has two books written about her (I haven't read them yet, but I believe they have been published recently). I'm pretty sure Laura nominated a book about her previously. I can't think of the title right now (I wrote it down though), but I will be posting it tomorrow when I start the nominating thread because it will fit in the next month's theme.
Regarding historical fiction mysteries, I really enjoyed Steven Saylor's Roman Blood A Novel of Ancient Rome. Lots of great characters in there (though clearly, it's not Tudor-set). I also love The Alienist, which is set in New York City in the very late 1800s.
Yes, I also enjoy Steven Saylor's novels. And I really liked one of his short story collections, A Gladiator Dies Only Once: The Further Investigations of Gordianus the Finder.
I read The Alienist many years ago and enjoyed it. I am adding Steven Saylor to my very, very long list. I have started reading When Christ and His Saints Slept and I love it. I started on my lunch break and I keep sneaking a page or two at a time! Thanks for the recommendation!
I'm currently reading The First Princess of Wales: A Novel by Karen Harper. Just finished her book The Last Boleyn: A Novel, which was very similar (on the surface) to The Other Boleyn Girl, but more historically acurate.I'm not too far into The First Princess of Wales yet, but I really like it so far.
Next up I think I'm going to read the Wales trilogy that someone recomended...
There are SO many books that I want to read, I'm afraid I'll never find the time to get to them all! It's almost obsessive at this point, lol. I read 4-5 books a month and still feel like I'm not getting to it fast enough.
Emily, I loved The Alienist, even though I read it many years ago. Have you also read the sequel? I have had it for years, but I haven't read it yet. I'm going to have find it, dust it off and read it soon. Thanks for bringing back good memories.Mandy, I was averaging a book a week, but lately, I've been so busy that it is taking me little longer. Nevertheless, I've always felt like you do - not consuming enough books! It's a burden on readers like us :)
I have read the sequel. I thought it was very good, but not QUITE as good. Probably because it follows very closely to the same formula, so I was comparing it so much to the original. But yes, I think it's worth a read.And I totally agree, I can never read fast enough!
Hi Mandy, I read The First Princess of Whales a few years ago and I remember that I put it down a few times before I could really get into it. That may be I think, because I tended to compare too much to other HF and it was more of a lighter read than other HF/HR? I don't know. However once I did commit to it I enjoyed it.
Elizabeth,I'm having a hard time with The First Princess of Wales, too. It's just not very good. And last night I finally caved and did some online research about Joan of Kent - found it it's not very acurate, either. Bleck. I'm almost halfway finished with it - I just need to log a couple of hours and finish it. I can't start a book and then put it down.
Next up I have Eleanor the Queen. Has anyone read that? Give me a review if you have, so I don't start another stinker! lol
Eleanor the Queen by Norah Loft? I've read it twice and enjoyed it (4-stars). It seems fairly accurate for the most part. Unfortunately I read it before finding goodreads, so when I looked at my review all it said was "Eleanor of Aquitaine". I would recommend it from what I remember (I read an old copy my mom used to own, but I can't imagine that they changed anything besides a nice new cover).
I'm currently reading The Rose of York Crown of Destiny by Sandra Worth. It's the second book in the series, the first of which we had read as a group some months ago. I like reading about Richard III, and Worth has done her research, which is making this book enjoyable.
Sera, I still need to read that one - I have it and the last one (which I bought just after we read the first one), and I recently ordered the book about John and Isabella - now I just need to read them!
I started the Bruce trilogy by Nigel Tranter.
Sara, it's very short, which is why I figured that I could fit it in before Mistress of the Vatican. I have the last one, too, and I hope to get to it before I have the baby. Which book did you get about John and Isabella? I would like to broaden my knowledge about this time in history and to also learn more about the Yorks and the Lancasters. What a crazy time!
European Royalty
Books mentioned in this topic
The Book of Royal Useless Information: A Funny and Irreverent Look at the British Royal Family Past and Present (other topics)Katherine (other topics)
Queen of the North (other topics)
Victoria and her daughters (other topics)
The Heir Apparent: A Life of Edward VII, the Playboy Prince (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Noel Botham, Bruce Montague (other topics)Alison Weir (other topics)
Alison Weir (other topics)
Alison Weir (other topics)
Jean Plaidy (other topics)
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