Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
III. Goodreads Readers
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How to Help Self-Published Authors and Raise the Quality Bar
Stan wrote: "A lot of what you have said it true and I agree, but it's good to get the speeling write otherwize peple hve to stop and rereread. "Good point - I do actually have proof readers and focus groups for my books (maybe I need them for my rants on here as well).
i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!
I am impressed you could write that:) Although I read it well enough, as you say it is just the first and last letter which need to be correct in that case.
I had to edit my own book that went live back in July because I don't have the financial resources to hire someone to professionally edit my book. But I didn't just edit my book, I got advice from professionals, best selling authors and editors. I did research about editing and did the best I could and it took about five drafts before I felt my book was ready to be seen by the public. I also hope to in the future publish a revised edition once I have the resources to get a professional to edit my story.
Once I tried to get a few critique readers and nobody was interested. I have sold over 20 copies of my book with no purchase reviews and one person on GR gave my book a 1 star but didn't give any review.
For marketing and promotions I don't have the financially resources to do book giveaways. I have done some interviews, but I haven't had my book reviewed yet. One person in a group was supposed to give a review of my book and never left one, so I don't know. People are buying my book, but all I hear is silence. So I don't know.
I hate writing the synopsis so I don't know if that is the issue or not. I just know that I did the best I could with the resources available to me.
Not everyone reviews. There are lots of free/cheap ways to promote such as author interviews, blog tours, guest posts, facebook etc. If your book is on Smashwords you can make a coupon to offer it free - a good way to do a giveaway.I offered a book as a prize and the winner liked it so much she bought the second one, so that is one sale I probably wouldn't have got otherwise.
There are some groups on Goodreads which offer read and review, or book of the month opportunities etc.
As an editor/proofreader, I have to say that even though I agree that an author should put in the work, not every author has the ability to write a book 100% on their own. I've edited some ms with an amazing storyline, the writing leaves a lot to be desired. I definitely think an author needs to not just spit out books without putting in the work, but self-editing just doesn't do the trick. Do your part but find a good editor/proofreader to finish it up!
I published an essay A Brief History of Lies in 2010 out of which came FootSteps Press and the idea not just to publish myself but other authors.Speaking to artists here in Cornwall I found quite a few who were published years ago but never generated huge followings and were dropped by publishing in the 1980s when they were merging. Jonathon Coudrille falls into that category and we re-published his children's picture books.
We were also fortunate to read Shanne Sands whose books have been getting rave reviews on Amazon and here for her poetry and lyrical prose.
But having great writers is only one third of the story. The next third is brilliant design. Here we were very fortunate in that I was taught Indesign by a document preparation specialist at Ernest and Young (yes all big companies need people who can typeset in their sleep) and read a great deal about the history of design, classical design and digital design. It was a tremendous education for me to learn where punctuation came from and how to geometrically set out a page - things you would usually only learn in art classes.
Even then you never know how a book looks and feels until you have the proof in your hands and every book is a learning experience.
The last third of the equation is marketing. And it seems from this thread I am up against some degree of prejudice. No matter, such challenges are what makes the day fun to live through.
However is anyone needs pointers in how to use typesetting software 'properly' I am happy to give advice.
Daniel
Heather wrote: "By editor, do you mean beta reader? I'm fascinated by authors' use of beta readers over freelance editors. Maybe I'm biased (I'm a freelance editor), but if I were to ever write a novel, I would absolutely hire an editor."Heather (and others)
The pen-marked copy was my editor. She's an experienced editor who does technical writing editing for a living and is extremely good at what she does. I do have a group of 30 or so beta-readers who read a nearly final version of my book. I take all their inputs and ponder and rewrite. Then I hand the final version over to Jody for her to do her magic with.
Yes, she loves paper and ink and scribbling. We all have our own techniques!
Lisa
A few other thoughts after reading the recent posts.* A good editor will never deaden or destroy your work. A good editor will uplift and hone it so it is in your voice, with your message, and conveys that clearly to your audience. If you have errors in your book it drives away readers. It doesn't impress them with your avant-garde style.
* A book that goes out with errors doesn't save you money. It destroys your future. Your reputation is built on what you publish. If your aim is to make money, each book you put out with low quality content is digging a hole you might never emerge from. It's better to save up money, wait, and publish an awesome book than to just do a few run-throughs yourself and "get it out there". That harms rather than helps.
There are always ways to make money. Sell crafts, sell things on fiverr, transcript documents for people, etc. etc. If you want it to happen, you can make it happen. If you don't care, your readers know that, and your reputation will be sealed.
Beta readers shouldn't necessarily be friends. They should be people in your target audience who aren't connected to you and who will give you brutally honest feedback. If someone happens to be a friend AND can do all of this, you have a very special friend. Most friends can't handle the brutally honest part. They tend to sugar-coat for friendship reasons.
Editors don't cost a lot! They cost *perfect value* for the immense benefit they provide. It's like saying a WalMart loaf of bread costs a lot. Does it really? It's a price for a product. With an editor, the value of what they do is IMMENSE. They turn a book from a damaging "rock" dragging you down into a golden eagle pulling you high. A well-edited book can easily make its money back in direct sales and in future sales. That is what that editor is doing for you. They are blasting your reputation and sales sky-high.
That's why you research to find the perfect one for your book and project.
Lisa
Example on the editing topic.My first murder mystery novel, Aspen Allegations, was undoubtedly "good" when I finished my revisions on it. I have to smile when some people talk about publishing after reading through five times. I read through my books probably **100** times before they go live. I read, re-read, tweak, polish, fiddle, because I want it to be absolutely perfect. I don't want it to be just "what I could get done in a short period of time". This is a life-long permanent mark on my reputation. I want it to be a good mark, not a bad mark.
So, in any case, the book was in good shape. I'd already published 10 books by this point. I had a good handle on writing.
I gave that book to my review team, and to Jody.
The book got SO much better. They helped word flow, character highlights, and much more. Jody's final editing was superb.
With the end product, I won a gold medal from the IPPY awards. I got to go to New York City and have my photo taken with the medal, meet publishers, and more.
When I got home from that, I got written up in newspapers for my achievement.
My book can now talk about that in all its marketing material.
This was all directly due to the help of my editor. Yes, before the book might have been "good". With her help, it crossed to that higher level where the snowball begins.
That's why you have an editor. To push your book to that higher level, to get that snowball effect rolling.
Lisa
Heather wrote: "Andrea wrote: "I'm curious about what price a new author can expect to pay a good editor?"You'll have to do a little math with the specs of your ms, but here is an industry-based guideline for e..."
Super helpful! I'm adding it to the list on my blog.
Brenda wrote: Consider what you want out of your writing. Do you just want a paper book to hold in your hand? Then go to Cafe Press, or even your local Kinko's. Do you want fame and fortune? Go to Hollywood, your odds are better. Do you want artistic satisfaction? Excellent, but accept that that might be all you ever get..."
Please, everyone who 'just wants to share the book within them' read this. Give away your books. But don't expect reviews because the receiver may not take it seriously. I'm sorry that's just the way it is. At least someone read your book. You can start a fan site if you want to talk to your own readers.
However, I believe this thread is invaluable for people who want to be considered professional authors.
I've read through this thread and frankly, I'm astounded at how some indie authors approach and regard their craft. I won't single anyone out but I will say this:1) Realize you are in competition not just with other indie authors but publishing houses both large and small and in order to make a dent in today's market your product must be top-of-the-line.
2) Be honest with YOURSELF about what you've written. If what you've written is Grade-A shit, know that it should not be offered to the reading public. Don't forget to obtain the opinions of others outside of family, friends, or an established fan-base. You need those who are UNBIASED.
3) Spend three times as long editing your book as you did writing it and then, when you're sure you've got everything ironed out, hire an editor, a professional editor. Tell that editor to give you feedback that is so honest you feel like you're getting spanked and not in a good way.
4) Employ beta-readers, honest ones, and ones that are not friends, fans, or family. Then when you've made adjustments according to their feedback, move on to the following steps.
5) For those of you who aren't professional artists specifically trained in creating cover art, hire an artist. DO NOT settle for Johnny down the block who just opened Photoshop for the first time or for one of those crappy cover houses. You might once in a blue moon find a cover that somewhat fits your novel, but chances are someone has either used that cover or will use the same cover.
6) Unless you know what it takes to format a book, hire someone to format your book. This includes both print and e-books. This may in fact require hiring two different people.
7) If you can't afford to hire the aforementioned professional help, don't say, "Oh well." and publish your book anyway. Save what you need to pay and have these things done.
Look at it this way. If YOU as the author are unwilling to do what is necessary to invest in your novel, how can you expect others to pay for said product? How can you expect to compete against the houses and those authors who are willing to invest in themselves?
If you simply want to write whatever and have people read what you write there are many venues through which you can go, places like Wattpad and many others. I as a professional hard-working writer trying to make a living respectfully ask that amateurs who wish to stay amateurs stop flooding the market on selling platforms such as Amazon, B&N, etc. with bad writing and poorly put together books. Why? Because those who flood the market with crap give self-publishing a bad name and are responsible for an eroding potential numbers of readers willing to buy self-published books.
FYI, those who are looking for an affordable, professional editor or Spanish/English translator, see Cinta García de la Rosa. She's the editor handling my novel Strife. She's honest, upfront, and damn good at what she does.BTW, Strife and Foolish Endeavors are off the shelves. I took them off after realizing what I put out there was inferior to the books offered through traditional publishing. They've since been improved with better pacing, superior covers, and are/will be seeing the aforementioned editing before I republish them. Just wanted to let you all know I practice what I preached in my previous post.
Heather wrote: "You're quite lucky to have found trustworthy and well-informed beta readers. How long did it take you to acquire them? Did you have any bad experiences?"It was not a matter of luck, Heather.
I've been writing for over twenty years, working on my craft. I've been part of critique circles, where my unpublished work garnered attention from several critical people who introduced me to the concept of beta-readers.
Since I wrote the bulk of my novels at work, manning a reception desk in an office building, people who saw me typing on my laptop asked me what I was doing. When I replied that I wrote suspense fiction about a female freelance assassin who breaks one of her rules and gets into trouble, many people wanted to read the draft.
I'm also a longstanding member of a motorcycle community and many members, from all walks of life, expressed interest in wanting to help me improve my writing.
Since these people enjoy my stories, they support me free of charge because they want me to keep on writing.
After I published my first book, Reprobate: A Katla Novel, readers were impressed with the depiction of my blind character. That led to review by Hannah Thompson, a professor who is partially blind and writes about fictional representations of visually impaired and blind characters in the media. Hannah loved my books and became a beta-reader. I also got feedback from a blind reader who had converted my epub to mp3.
As to bad experiences, I had none. Since my beta-readers genuinely care about my stories and take pride in helping me to improve, they wouldn't do anything to jeopardize our relationship, built on trust and respect.
Ron wrote: "For me, writing is art, it is a creative outlet. It is a way for me to express myself and share feelings deep inside me. It is a way for me to reach out and connect with other people, even if only a limited number of other people."I agree with the writing part. Writing should be unfettered by rules. That's how I create a draft.
However, I don't publish a draft. The draft will be edited, first by myself, then by my beta-readers. This will go on until the draft becomes a manuscript that is polished until it ready for publication.
I respect your attitude towards writing, but if you publish a draft without editing or proofreading, you're not only setting yourself up for disappointment, but you're also perpetuating the image of self-publishers as authors who are so eager to cash in on their stories that they publish prematurely.
Publishing a story prematurely often angers readers for not providing them with the reading experience they expect from a published novel. Their anger and disappointment results in a loss of trust in the quality of self-published novels, so you're not only damaging your own career, but also confirming to these readers that self-published books will not be worth their time and money.
So, while I respect your wishes to create without editorial supervision, I cannot respect any attempt at publishing prematurely.
Martyn V. wrote: "That's how I create a draft. However, I don't publish a draft. "
Mark wrote: .. frankly, I'm astounded at how some indie authors approach and regard their craft. I won't single anyone out but ..
Let me also say that it is important that any assistance you get (editorial, focus group, etc) understand your target audience and what you are trying to achieve. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly. What is perfection for Van Gogh is finger painting for Rembrant.
My zombie book was intended to be one step above bathroom reading material at a frat house; some readers can barely make it to the second page without tossing it aside in disgust, while some readers can't help but laugh out loud and refuse to put it down.
The movie, Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, would never have been made by a studio (much to the relief of some), but Blair Witch Project was also an indie project, and it was soon copied by studios. Gone With the Wind has been viewed and enjoyed by many people, but The Rocky Horror Picture Show still plays to sold out movie theaters almost 40 years after it was released.
Daniel Johnson was a schizophrenic depressive who would bang on a piano for therapy. Most people, even today, will refuse to "waste their time" listening to his Grade-A-shit, but Kurt Cobain thought he was a genius (not that there aren't people who think Kurt produced Grade-A-shit). Daniel had a successful musical world tour, and several documentary films have been made about him.
It isn't so long ago that the idea of a series of vampire romance novels would have been laughed out of town by publishing houses and editors - and now vampires *sparkle*. (Puh-leeze, vampires dont F'ing sparkle!)
Martyn V. wrote: "So, while I respect your wishes to create without editorial supervision, I cannot respect any attempt at publishing prematurely. "I am not advocating abandoning editorial supervision. I have gotten terrific and extremely helpful comments from editors - especially when they aren't afraid to tell me what they are really thinking. However I am always careful to filter what they say through what I am trying to achieve. I may take a criticism and interpret it as complement (yes! that is exactly what I was trying to achieve!), or vice versa. Or I may decide that this section of the story really is Grade-A-shit and do a rewrite.
I am not advocating that people rush out first drafts. But we must not lose our creative vision. Individuality is not an excuse for ignoring all rules (well, usually), but rules must not be allowed to turn us into rubber stamps. If you really want your work to look just like all the other stuff being produced by publishing houses, then use publishing house editors and publish through a publishing house.
Ron wrote: "Martyn V. wrote: "So, while I respect your wishes to create without editorial supervision, I cannot respect any attempt at publishing prematurely. "I am not advocating abandoning editorial superv..."
I just have one thing to say. By telling everyone to not be a rubber stamp, you are trying to have them do what you want not what they want. (nice convoluted sentence huh?) If they want to write about what is popular with their added vision, then that's what they should write. Just because you like to write niche books doesn't mean everyone does. Some people like to write mainstream fiction. Since what is selling is "mainstream" then the majority of reader are buying those types of books.
Continue writing niche books but please don't tell anyone else what to write. That makes you as bad as the editors that you denounce.
By telling everyone to not be a rubber stamp, you are trying to have them do what you want not what they want."I thought we were expressing our personal opinions. I apologize if you thought I was handing out rubber stamps that say, "Don't be a rubber stamp".
Wow what a fantastic string of conversation. I wanted to chime in from the traditional publishing perspective where I've worked for more years than I care to mention in public :-)Here's the deal: your book is your resume. Would you sent a resume out to a potential employer that wasn't edited by a professional?
Also, publishing is a business. I speak at a lot of events and run into numerous authors who want to get into publishing to "make money" - wow, really? Well, we'd all like to make money but *like a business* this first requires an investment in an exceptional content and copy editor (these are not the same person) and a fantastic cover. Because we do judge a book by its cover.
People lament the fact that self-published books don't get their due. Part of this is because the author rushes to print and wants to save money by self-editing or having a friend or family member edit their book.
It is a waste of energy to ask wannabees to not throw their first drafts up on Amazon. Amazon itself makes it so easy that there is no bar.I do believe, however, that if you read a substandard book you should note it. Put a comment on Amazon; review it here. Give it one star! Demand your money's worth like a sensible consumer should. If we just sit here and let typo-riddled screeds go by, there will be more. You don't have to be mean and you shouldn't lie, but if there is solid and visible evidence it's not worth what you paid, say so.
And if the poor author bursts into tears and emails you ten pages of rant? She is demonstrably not a professional. And you can say so.
Brenda wrote: "I do believe, however, that if you read a substandard book you should note it. Put a comment on Amazon; review it here. Give it one star! Demand your money's worth like a sensible consumer should. If we just sit here and let typo-riddled screeds go by, there will be more. You don't have to be mean and you shouldn't lie, but if there is solid and visible evidence it's not worth what you paid, say so.And if the poor author bursts into tears and emails you ten pages of rant? She is demonstrably not a professional. And you can say so."
I agree wholeheartedly with this. If people only review books they enjoy, and avoid giving one-star or two-star reviews, they're doing a disservice to all the others who were sucked into buying those same books, unaware that they're garbage.
There have been times where I've left a low review on Amazon and wondered how I was the only person out of almost a dozen other reviewers who noticed the book's problems. One book had the main character's name suddenly change 2/3 of the way through the book and NO ONE ELSE NOTICED. None of the reviewers said, "Who the heck is Alex? I thought his name was Fred!" or whatever the name was.
Had even one person been honest (or attentive), I might not have ended up with some of the clunkers I've picked up. Even when they're free, they're still a waste of my time if they're awful.
I will confess to reading a book's negative reviews first. I assume the book should be good; if someone says it's not, then I want to know why. One of the books I was checking out on Amazon had a negative review that stated, "This book was awful! It was so depressing, I just couldn't keep reading." Um...the book was about a child with terminal cancer. If that reader, when reading the blurb, didn't grasp the book's potential for sadness prior to purchasing, she's got problems.
The deal-breaker for me is poor editing. As soon as someone mentions editing in a review, I check the date of that review to see if newer ones also mention editing issues, since the book might have been updated. If more reviews mention poor editing or lack of editing, that cements it. I won't even bother verifying it for myself by reading a sample.
Harsh, perhaps, but life is too short to give the bad ones even a minute of my time.
Been gone for a while, just now getting back and reading this thread. I have a question that may have been answered. (Sorry if I'm repeating what someone else said.) ... It seems to me that the problem with the groups hoping to vet self-published books for quality is that there's no place for the public to find those books. Is that right or is there a place?
If not, there should be. It seems to me that with all the free websites available, someone should be able to create a website similar to those of the e-publishers that would present in an easy-to-browse format self-published books that have been vetted. If it was all volunteer (by the authors, critics, etc) and the publicity is also free (twitter, etc) then eventually the buying public should find good books.
Or am I wrong?
Florence Witkop
Florence wrote: "Been gone for a while, just now getting back and reading this thread. I have a question that may have been answered. (Sorry if I'm repeating what someone else said.) ... It seems to me that the pr..."
Check this thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Jen started this thread for exactly what you're requesting.
Yes, it is quite true that people judge a book by its cover. Book View, btw, is a different animal -- a co-op. So there are original self-published works there, but they are written, proofed, formatted and so on by pros.The other reason that reviews are dicey is that it is too easy to fudge them. We've heard of the 'authors' who get all their friends and family in to post five star reviews. The next step is to set up sock puppets, false IDs for yourself on Amazon or Goodreads, and post yummy reviews of your own stuff. And one-star reviews of your rivals, one may also suppose. And from their to construct faux flame wars between your identities is but a step. The only good thing that can be said about this is that it all takes quite a lot of time, time that therefore cannot be spent in writing horrible novels.
All this serves to muddy the review pool considerably. Which brings us back to traditional publishers. At the very least, a book from Random House has passed through a number of filters.
Brenda wrote: "...sock puppets, false IDs..."It would hardly seem to be worth all the time it takes!
Well, the people who write ten-page screeds arguing with your one-star review of their book are clearly a lightbulb shy of the full chandelier anyway. (And -- I am being writerishly imaginative here -- if you already have your sock puppet identity created, for harassing women or spamming your ex-boss or sending pictures of your junk to the world at large, it is right there ready to use...)The question is, how are you, the casual book browser at Amazon, able to know? Are all those glowing reviews from sock puppets? Are you really going to research all these reviewers to see if they are the author's Aunt Louisa? No.
So then what? I give weight to the recommendations of people I know, either in the flesh or on line -- people that I know are not sock puppets or Aunt Louisa. In other words, word of mouth.
Brenda wrote: "The question is, how are you, the casual book browser at Amazon, able to know? Are all those glowing reviews from sock puppets? Are you really going to research all these reviewers to see if they are the author's Aunt Louisa? No."Every so often, I'll click on a reviewer's name to see his/her other reviews. If there's only one review, ever, and it's a glowing five-star, I figure it's fake or it's family.
What I would like most, and something I believe would help with the goal of this thread, is a way to A) get a significant number of reviews B) from people who are actually potentially interested in what your book is about.Originally I thought that the Giveaway program on here would provide that but it doesn't seem to, probably because of the way it is currently administered. It appears that many people just sign up for every giveaway they can, some immediately reselling (as new) the books they receive. I contacted Goodreads and they said they were constantly refining their algorithm to choose winners - then later admitted their algorithm is essentially a random selection.
My experience with A) is that less than 40% of the people who get the book post a review. I don't believe this has to do (at least very much) with people being reluctant to post bad reviews. My zombie book is very 'niche' oriented, and I got pretty much what I expected - about half really liked it and half absolutely hated it (and were not afraid to say so).
This bring me to B). I think that at least some of the haters really should never have volunteered to read a book about bisexual vegetarian zombies. I actually got a 1-Star review before I had even mailed the books out. One reviewer suggested I study classic literature, such as Moby Dick, to hone my craft (No - I don't think they were kidding. I just don't think they fully grasped the target audience for a book about bisexual vegetarian zombies).
I had a similar situation (with a somewhat different end result) with my latest book, Enemy Combatant. This is a serious book and not really intended for a niche audience. I recently got my first giveaway review and it starts off: "I tend to be attracted to beauty and all things feminine, and the titles I read reflect that. I read poetry, vegan cookbooks, and women's fiction; never in a million years would I ever imagine myself gravitating towards political fiction, and certainly not books pertaining to military life and combat in Iraq. The violence, strategic missions and men's comradery existing between soldiers that have experienced combat together are lost on me. I see them as irrelevant in my own life, and frankly, boring. "
She went on to praise the book (5-Star) and said that it "fostered in me a sense of gratitude for those who've served in the armed forces that I'd never before experienced a personal level. I can truly say with all honesty, that only halfway into this novel, the story within had changed me." While this is high praise, and I *am* very very glad she ended up reading and reviewing the book, it does underline my criteria for part B) - people who are actually potentially interested in what your book is about.
I am not sure what the right way is to achieve my goal. If Goodreads institutes a policy where you are excluded from Giveaways unless you actually post reviews, would we end up with meaningless obligatory reviews? Should I be conducting my own informal Giveaway, requesting reviewers from appropriate discussion groups?
Constructive suggestions are welcomed.
The best way to get reviews is to become an active member in communities focused on your topic. For example if you love writing medieval stuff join the SCA and other medieval groups in person, and join those groups online. Become a valued member there. Then as a sidebar gently let people know about your books. You'll find you get lots of requests.Lisa
Lisa wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Another problem I only really realized after my own first novel was out, is that you really can't edit your own work. At least not to release quality. I think many find that out the ..."A few good, reliable and knowledgeable Beta Readers can go a long way in eliminating typos, and they don't cost anything. I personally have read very few books, even in the traditional publishing world, that have zero errors, but I have also read too many in the Indie world that are rife with inexcusable errors. Having someone OUTSIDE your immediate family and circle of friends read and "correct" your manuscript prior to publication is really a necessity if you can't (or won't) pay a professional editor.
I also want to mention that before I retired, I did a lot of writing in my profession. It seemed no matter how many times I "edited" my paper, or how many tricks I used to edit, like the "read it from back to front" concept, as soon as I printed it or clicked "send", I would have GLARING errors jump off the page at me! It just is not feasible to even attempt to edit your own work, as you have obviously found. I applaud your efforts to come up with a solution that won't hurt sensitive feelings about "baby".
FYI - I posted, then edited this comment 4 times before I got it right!
Grampy -I think we've all had situations where we tried to edit our own work and somehow missed glaring typos :). It's just the way the mind works. It helps so much to have a completely new person take a look.
Lisa
Beta reading groups should be more used. I found two beta readers for my autumn, epic fantasy. I have never been in this system before but it is excellent to have strangers who love books read a work for its strengths and weaknesses.I also commented mys elf on a cover someone had proposed and I thought looked very amateur. There are a few people here with good design eyes who would comment on covers.
Proof reading and editing is a skilled task and very time consuming. I cannot see any way around paying for this to be done.
Daniel wrote: "Proof reading and editing is a skilled task and very time consuming. I cannot see any way around paying for this to be done."It is extremely time-consuming. Many people don't realize how many hours it takes for a copy editor to read through a manuscript. And we go through the MS more than once, reading every single word. There can be no skimming involved, and there are only so many hours in a row that we can read before the effectiveness of our observational skills starts to wane.
There have been times when offering "reasonable" rates has allowed me the grand sum of only a few dollars per hour. It's just the way it plays out now and then.
Lynda wrote: "There have been times when offering "reasonable" rates has allowed me the grand sum of only a few dollars per hour. It's just the way it plays out now and then."Your dedication is commendable, Lynda.
Martyn V. wrote: "Your dedication is commendable, Lynda."It sounds like I was boo-hooing, but really, I'm not. I enjoy the authors with whom I'm currently working, and it doesn't feel like I'm being forced to work in a sweatshop. But there are times when it's best not to look at the breakdown of the numbers. [laughing]
I'm glad I didn't get into publishing my work to make a living...
I agree with Lynda. I have both been a proofreader and an author. Couldn't do without help and that extra eye that sees in an external way, rather than the author's internal view. Worth the effort to have an editor/proofreader or more than one!
Lisa wrote: "The best way to get reviews is to become an active member in communities focused on your topic. For example if you love writing medieval stuff join the SCA and other medieval groups in person, and ..."Wow, a SCA reference. I never thought I would see one of those outside of medieval circles.
Lisa wrote: "The best way to get reviews is to become an active member in communities focused on your topic. For example if you love writing medieval stuff join the SCA and other medieval groups in..."Hmm. My first serious book is about terrorism, black ops, and enhanced interrogation techniques. Not sure what group I could join without causing the FBI to open a file on me (umm, if they don't have one open already).
Ron wrote: "Lisa wrote: "The best way to get reviews is to become an active member in communities focused on your topic. For example if you love writing medieval stuff join the SCA and other medieval groups in..."The CIA? NSA? FBI?
I'm pretty sure the NSA is checking what I'm doing, just by following my browser cache. On the other hand, I hope they will accept that I research fiction about a freelance assassin, and that they won't suspect me of actually being an assassin.
Martyn V. wrote: "I'm pretty sure the NSA is checking what I'm doing, just by following my browser cache. On the other hand, I hope they will accept that I research fiction about a freelance assassin, and that they ..."You never know about the NSA.
On the other hand, wouldn't a great cover for an assassin be to pose as a writer doing research? Just make sure you have a foolproof alibi for every minute of the day.
Martyn V. wrote: "I'm pretty sure the NSA is checking what I'm doing, just by following my browser cache. On the other hand, I hope they will accept that I research fiction about a freelance assassin, and that they ..."The NSA tends to look for certain trigger criteria in a user's internet searches, and if your searches press a few of the right trigger(s), human eyes will take a look. Those eyes are usually well enough trained to discern between someone trying to get into mischief and someone researching a book.
What do prototheria, cryogenics, hibernation, fissionable materials, and Kepler's Third Law have in common? It's all research for a Sci-Fi novel.
The NSA tends to be a lot more discrete than most nosy neighbors who get their kicks by peeping through their curtains to spy on you.
Having as many readers as you can go over your work seems to work best with proof-reading. I had a professional proof reader for one of my books, but a sharp-eyed friend found several more small typos that had been missed by the professional.Why don't more readers read self-published books? Once bitten twice shy might be the answer.
Perhaps we should get Amazon KDP etc to have a 'read this first' page before writers upload their work. It could explain about the necessity for editing and making sure your product is fully ready before pressing the 'publish' button.
Ken wrote: "On the other hand, wouldn't a great cover for an assassin be to pose as a writer doing research? Just make sure you have a foolproof alibi for every minute of the day.""No, sir, I was writing the first draft of my next novel. Here, you can check that I saved my draft right around the time your victim was killed."
R.F.G. wrote: "The NSA tends to look for certain trigger criteria in a user's internet searches, and if your searches press a few of the right trigger(s), human eyes will take a look. Those eyes are usually well enough trained to discern between someone trying to get into mischief and someone researching a book."How to build an IED. Sniper rifles. Waterboarding. Drowning in stages. What insects will devour a corpse in the shortest time period. Air purification for decomposition gases. How to capture the signal from a car key and clone to key to gain access to a victim's car. Privacy, cell phones and smart phones. Lockpicking school. Vulnerable points on the body. Combat shooting...
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For me, writing is art, it is a creative outlet. It i..."
A lot of what you have said it true and I agree, but it's good to get the speeling write otherwize peple hve to stop and rereread.