Medieval Iran

[Melanie, Marhaba Language Expertise]

Hello!
I'm starting this thread to indicate where we will discuss the great epic story collection Shahnameh, starting February 2014 inshallah :)

Also, I'm making note here of the other recommendations for medieval Iran / Persian texts in case you want to read more!
Vis and Ramin
The Conference of the Birds
Ghazals of Ghalib
Persian Folk and Fairy Tales
Feel free to add more to this thread!

[Avempace]

Melanie wrote: "Hello!
I'm starting this thread to indicate where we will discuss the great epic story collection Shahnameh, starting February 2014 inshallah :)

Also, I'm making note here of the other recommendat..."

I would suggest adding Nizami's Khamsa

[Melanie, Marhaba Language Expertise]

Thanks, Avempace, for the suggestion. Would you also like the idea of reading Nizami's Majnun Layla? It might be easier for people to find. Does this look like a good edition of Nizami's Khamsa?
Mirror of the Invisible World: Tales from the Khamseh of Nizami

[Ardene]

I have ordered my copy of Shanameh (Dick Davis translation). Looking forward to this discussion.

[Melanie, Marhaba Language Expertise]

yay!

[Ardene]

I would also like to read Conference of the Birds at some point - my public library now has a copy, since we received a set of books on Muslim culture via Bridging Cultures.

[Melanie, Marhaba Language Expertise]

Great! Feel free to read it and share your thoughts here if you like. I read it, and enjoyed Peter Sis' illustrations thoroughly. Enjoy :)

[Ardene]

Ooh, Peter Sis illustrates it? That makes me want it even more! I will wait until after Shanameh though. My copy just arrived yesterday.

[Jalilah]

I've ordered Shanameh too!

[Melanie, Marhaba Language Expertise]

OK, it's February -- Welcome to reading Shahnameh (and feel free to read others and write about them too if you like) !!!

It's snowing constantly here today (in Rhode Island). No matter where you are, probably your weather is more wintry now then when this stop of our tour ends. So enjoy this chance to curl up with a book before summery weather arrives :)

I'm preparing a post about the first part of Shahnameh, and looking forward to hearing all of your ideas / reactions / questions ...

[Sheila]

Still waiting on mine coming through the library system, it is on their purchase list and has 2 reserves on it so I may not get it quickly :(

[Marieke, Former moderator]

I have a copy but I can't remember where I have put it. I must look around...it can't be truly hidden!

[Melanie, Marhaba Language Expertise]

As you may know, I’m reading Dick Davis’ (Persian-English) translation. (Of course, any and all versions are welcome here!) In his introduction, he discusses a few terms that I found interesting:

1. farr - “refers to a God-given glory, and inviolability, bestowed on a king, and sometimes on a great hero. Its physical manifestation was a light that shone from the king’s or hero’s face. It has been suggested that the practice of saluting derives from an inferior’s complimentary covering of his eyes with his hand, in order not to be blinded by the farr supposedly emanating from his superior” (p. xxxvi)
It reminds me of haloes for medieval Christian saints and blank faces in medieval Muslim portraits of the prophet Muhammad. The importance of this term tells me that this story collection is all about heroes and heroic kings.

2. Rum - refers “to the civilizations that lie to the west of Iran, in Asia Minor and in Europe.” He explains how he translates the term as Greek, Roman, Byzantine, or just Rumi, depending on context. The importance of this term tells me that this story collection is all about creating an “us.” Rum is an early term for the occident ‘Other’, the so-called ‘West.’ These stories represent cultural roots and origins. They provide a myth for Persian speakers (much like Paul Bunyan and Abraham Lincoln in the U.S., or Charlemagne or Richard the Lionheart in Europe, or Saladin for Arabs).

3. nard - a medieval variant of chess, including kings and dice [Is anyone else interested in the history of chess and want to read [book:Birth of the Chess Queen: A History|85272] some day?]

I’ve read the first several stories. So far, I’ve noticed the great focus on kinship: fathers, sons, grandsons, etc. and also the focus on morality. Villains fail due to hubris or lack of regard for customs or for religion. There are magical beings, some of whom bring maladies, threats, or knowledge. Any threat to kinship or morality tends to lead to battle.

In the first stories, there are a variety of inventions / discoveries / origin myths: fire, metalwork, animal domestication, hunting, textiles, agriculture, mysticism, martial arts, writing, the festival of noruz, gourmet cooking, the Kurds...

My favorite story so far is Sam and the Simorgh. A father abandons his baby son in the wilderness because he fears what people will think when they discover that his son has white hair. A magical bird, the Simorgh, raises the son among her chicks. The son, Zal, grows up and returns to his throne. I’m currently reading about his romance with Rudabeh: the two lovers sense each other from afar, and commit themselves to one another sight unseen. Fight scenes, true love, heroes and villains...these stories have it all :)

[Carolinemawer]

Indeed the Shahnameh stories do have it all!
Dick Davies spoke about the women in the Shahnameh at SOAS (School of Oriental and African Studies in London) late last year. If you're interested, I wrote a little summary of what he said at:
http://www.carolinemawer.com/whats-ne...
I hope you're going to keep writing about your favourite stories - I'm guessing it'll change as you read more of this wonderful book!

[Melanie, Marhaba Language Expertise]

Nice! I wrote my master's thesis about Sirat al-amira dhat al-himma, roughly 'Epic of the Warrior Woman'. It's the longest extant Arabic epic, and the only one named for a woman. It tells the story of her life and adventures, and the exploits of the other heroes in her band. It's set in the 12th century, in the borderlands between Syria and Byzantium. I'd like to write more about it some day, maybe a translation...

I also like how women can star in folktales from around the world. For some examples from Arabic that are available in English, see Abu Jmeel's Daughter and Other Stories: Arab Folk Tales from Palestine and Lebanon.

[Ardene]

Melanie, thanks for opening the thread discussion. I'm also reading Davies translation, and enjoying the stories. I'm about to start reading the story of Seyavush, and am interested to see how reading it will affect my reading of A Persian Requiem.

[Melanie, Marhaba Language Expertise]

Great! Keep us posted :)

[Sheila]

My Library's version is by Elizabeth Laird The Shahnameh: The Persian Book of Kings and it just arrived this morning. I have to say physically it is a lovely book, full of illustrations by Shirin Adl Shirin Adl.
I am currently reading The Blood of Flowers by Anita Amirrezvani and love the folk stories which intersperse that one, so looking forward to these.

[Sheila]

As I posted I could only get hold of a version for children in my library system. There is a waiting list for it as they have just purchased the book. Luckily I was the first in line. It is a condensed and simplified account of the stories, making them an ideal format for reading to or with young children and for a rapid adult read. I would have loved to hear these stories as a child - to dream of an all conquoring love like Zal and Rudabeh found, to play out the Rostrun and Sohrab battle etc would have been great fun. As Melanie says these stories have it all. At various points they brought back folk and fairy stories from my own childhood, and the world of Tolkein's Middle Earth, and the story of Beowolf. I think you are never too old to read or re-read these :)

I found a number of potentially interesting web links which might be of interest

English translation of the poem

Fitzwilliam Museum Online Exhibition

[Ardene]

Sheila, thanks for posting those links! I especially want to look at the section Davis left out of his edition when I get there.

I’ve read through the death of Seyavash & the birth of Khosrow in the Shahnameh (p. 280 in Dick Davis’ translation), partly because I’m trying to understand how the story of Seyavash relates to A Persian Requiem (Savushan) by Simin Daneshvr.

My overall impression is that Iran/Persia is the center of the world in these stories and that many of the stories could be expanded into a play or a novel. Sometimes I’m frustrated because the stories are too short and don’t give enough detail & depth of character. Sometimes I’m frustrated because it seems so very violent, and I’m not terribly interested in stories that glorify war. But I’m also enjoying them immensely, how interconnected they are and waiting to see what happens next.

I’m struck by how many of these people are in some sense related – children (grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc.) of Feraydan and how the war and strife depicted is a family quarrel over who daddy loves best, as well s how these stories can be used to give depth to stories of relationships between nations and/or ethnicities.

I’m also curious about what these stories would look like from the perspective of the named women, most of whom, so far, come from outside Persia. These women include Mah-Afarid and her daughter, Rudabeh & her mother Sindokht, Thahmineh, Sudabeh, the unnamed Turkish princess who gives birth to Seyavash, and Farigis.

Did I read the text correctly that Garsivaz, Seyavash’s great-grandfather, is the one who conspires against him? Or are there two Turkish warlords with that name? (p. 215 Davis, Seyavsh’s granddaughter is Garsivaz’ granddaughter, pp. 258-269 Garsivaz plots & lies to get Afraysab & Seyavash to distrust each other.)

Likewise, Pashang marries Iraj’s daughter & is the father of Manuchehr (pp. 46-47), yet he ends up fighting with the Turks against Nozar & Kay Kavus with Afraysab? Or are these two different Pashangs?
I know, it’s not a literal history, I’m just trying to follow the relationships in the story.

[Gavin]

Hello everyone, I'm a bit late in joining the group read but I do love the Shahnama and have read it twice in the last 5 years or so. I really love some of the illustrations that you can find on
http://shahnama.caret.cam.ac.uk/new/j...
for me they add a new dimension to a very visual book.

[Melanie, Marhaba Language Expertise]

Cool, thanks!

[Melanie, Marhaba Language Expertise]

Hi!
I just finished reading Davis' Shahanameh. My favorite stories: Sam and the Simorgh, Zal and Rudabeh, Sohrab, and Bizhan and Manizheh. I think it's fair to say that I'm partial to romances, and to benevolent magical birds :)

The Tale of Sohrab is important because it's so famous. It's an amazing tragedy, in which a father kills his own son (not knowing that this man is his son until it's too late). That story has had influence on other stories, and it has become one of the most typical tales associated with the Shahnameh. Within the larger tale of Sohrab is that of Gordafarid also. She's a warrior woman who challenges Sohrab. That story was important to me because I've quite a bit of the Arabic epics that tell of warrior women.

It can be a challenge to follow all the relationships between the thousands of characters (Ardene, good luck with that!).

How's it going for all of you?? The group read will remain open until the end of April unless you want it closed earlier. (That just means that it is displayed on our group page.) Of course, this discussion thread stays open forever. So you can feel free to add to it whenever you like. Thanks for reading with us!