Flights of Fantasy discussion
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Jim Butcher
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Jim Butcher!
"talking cats, who are horrid little bullies"So... it's nonfiction about my two beasts then? O_o
Becky wrote: ""talking cats, who are horrid little bullies"So... it's nonfiction about my two beasts then? O_o"
Haha!
alansplace wrote: "Today, Jim Butcher tweeted:Jim Butcher @longshotauthor · 18h 18 hours ago
The sweetest words any writer ever types: THE END.
So the first CINDER SPIRES is done! Will clean it up and then be..."
From http://www.jim-butcher.com/
"This just in! Jim has finished the first book in the Cinder Spires series, The Aeronaut’s Windlass! He’ll take some time for polishing and editorial, then he’ll start work on Dresden #16, Peace Talks!
We’ll let you know as soon as there’s a release date to announce. At present, no official date has been set.
In the meantime, don’t forget to vote in Round 2 of the Goodreads Choice Awards! Skin Game is one of many exceptional novels in the running for Best Fantasy. This round ends tomorrow, Saturday the 15th, so don’t delay! Participants get one vote per category per round, so check out all the nominees in all categories and choose your favorites, then come back Monday the 17th for the Final Round, to see if your picks made the cut!"
Stuff that Jim has said in the past...The Dresden Files started life as a class project in my Writing a Genre Fiction Novel class. In point of fact, it was my attempt to prove to my writing teacher how wrong she was about all this structured, story-craft nonsense she was trying to teach me about. You see, I knew about these things because I had a bachelor’s degree in English Literature with an emphasis in Creative Writing–whereas she merely had a master’s in journalism (and had published forty novels). So to prove her wrong, I set out to do absolutely everything she said exactly the way she said it–to be her good little writing monkey and show her exactly what horrible things resulted from such a restrictive, cookie-cutter approach to writing would create
And I wrote the first book of the Dresden Files.
Which showed her. Hah.
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Overall, the series gets better or at least it gets different. Storm Front is by far the closest book to the series' pulp noir roots. It's a very dark book; Dresden's an antisocial asshole; there's a lot of chauvinism in the narrative. All of these things fade (though don't entirely disappear) as the series goes on.
The plot is very noir too and the fantasy elements are limited in the first book. Storm Front deals with the real world almost exclusively. You get glimpses of the supernatural world (the Council, the Red Court, etc) but for the most part it deals with human beings doing human things for human reasons. Fool Moon is similar, dealing mostly with the real world, but it does feature pockets of supernatural society with the werewolves. Grave Peril, the third book, delves deeply into the fantasy world dealing extensively with the Red Court and even going into the Never-Never for the first time. The subsequent books follow Grave Peril's lead.
Storm Front and Fool Moon also feel like "Monster-of-the-Week" books because of this. The thru-plot of the series starts in Grave Peril because the thru-plot deals with the supernatural world.
But anyway, I'd say the part of Storm Front most representative of the rest of the series is probably the scorpion scene. The Dresden Files is a lot of a guy doing his best to do the right thing and things constantly getting worse for him. It's a lot like Indiana Jones in that way.
Dresden Files changes from Philip Marlowe with magic to Indiana Jones with magic starting with Grave Peril, best book is Dead Beat.
Quoting Jim Butcher..."Pain is a part of life. Sometimes it’s a big part, and sometimes it isn’t, but either way, it’s part of the big puzzle, the deep music, the great game. Pain does two things: It teaches you, tells you that you’re alive. Then it passes away and leaves you changed. It leaves you wiser, sometimes. Sometimes it leaves you stronger. Either way, pain leaves its mark, and everything important that will ever happen to you in life is going to involve it in one degree or another."
- Harry Dresden, White Night
alansplace wrote: "Today, Jim Butcher tweeted:Jim Butcher @longshotauthor · 18h 18 hours ago
The sweetest words any writer ever types: THE END.
So the first CINDER SPIRES is done! Will clean it up and then be..."
Jim Butcher @longshotauthor · 12h
Cleanup complete, 700 pages of Cinder
Spires manuscript sent off to the editor.
Phew!
Pep Talk from Jim ButcherBeware, sweet, innocent, aspiring writer. People aren’t telling you this, and they should be. NaNoWriMo participants are being deceived into thinking that being an author is a good thing. But you don’t know. You don’t know the horrors you might face as a professional, published, full-time author.
I could tell you. I could go on for hours about...http://nanowrimo.org/pep-talks/jim-bu...
there are a lot od butcher fans who only like one series that he has written. i found that those who liked dresden tend not to like codex alera. i have read both series so far and while i find dresden much better the codex alera was also good to a point. took me so long to read them though.
I read them back-to-back one right after the other and liked them all a lot.
I need to go back and finish Codex.
I like the Codex books...but I admit not nearly so much as Dresden. As I understood it at the time he had always wanted to write what he called his "horse fantasy".
Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "I like the Codex books...but I admit not nearly so much as Dresden. As I understood it at the time he had always wanted to write what he called his "horse fantasy"."It's actually 'swords and horses fantasy'! :)
I agree, I like 'The Dresden Files' better than I like 'Codex Alera', but it's just a difference of degree.
"He took up writing to be able to produce fantasy novels with swords and horses in them..."[from the Jim Butcher page on Amazon.com]
I knew I remembered reading it somewhere.
'Good Intentions' is a fan fic short story in the Dresdenverse and can be read here:http://archiveofourown.org/works/385544
It was excellent, I liked it a lot. It has helped to fill the time gap (I'm waiting patiently) between 'Skin Game' and the publication of the upcoming 'Peace Talks'.
Does anyone else feel that, as great as EVERY Dresden novel has been, the ones that are filled with Fae politics and warfare in the greater supernatural universe are not quite as fun as the old ones with Harry running around Chicago chasing monsters and solving supernatural crimes?
No, but I understand what you're getting at. The novels have a different feel now that we're out in the bigger supernatural world. If you liked the "hard-boiled detective" part of the books it's not there so much anymore.I still like the books as much though. They're just different.
Honestly, I'm one of the few people around here that's sort of meh about Dresden anymore. I do miss the lighter tone of the earlier books, and I feel like it's gotten to formulaic - though I've been assured this changes in the last few books. Some day I'll get around to making myself read Ghost Story.
Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "No, but I understand what you're getting at. The novels have a different feel now that we're out in the bigger supernatural world. If you liked the "hard-boiled detective" part of the books it's n..."^This!!
Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "No, but I understand what you're getting at. The novels have a different feel now that we're out in the bigger supernatural world. If you liked the "hard-boiled detective" part of the books it's n..."I concur with Mike (the Paladin)!
I just finished Skin Game. The only problem is that I have to wait so long for the next book. Fortunately, I have found with the Dresden books, unlike some other series, that I don't really lose momentum between book.I am about halfway through the Dresden related shorts, and I plan to make it a point to finish them. In the last couple of books, I've definitely seen the references to them. Not that they are critical to the plot of any given book, but it is nice to get it.
I've read the first two Codex Alera books, and I enjoy them almost as much as the Dresden Files. This year, I plan to finish the series.
I am also thrilled about Butcher's new steampunk series. I like the genre, but feel like there is some very poor execution within it right now. I am confident that Butcher will have something great to offer.
Valerie, is the second Alera book better than the first?
Chris, it definitely was. So much of the first book set up the world. In the second book there is much more room for story telling.
That's great to hear. Butcher set the bar so high with Dresden that I felt a bit let down with the first Alera.
Overall, Alera isn't as good as Dresden. But its still a fun read.
That's interesting to hear. I read the first Alera book and wasn't hugely impressed so I might give the second one a try if it's much better.
Chris wrote: "That's great to hear. Butcher set the bar so high with Dresden that I felt a bit let down with the first Alera."Chris, your comment about the Codex Alera books is interesting. My experience was just the opposite. I read the first two Dresden books and wasn't impressed. Well, I liked the first one, found the second one flat and repetitive. I almost didn't start Alera because of Dresden--I loved the Alera books (not sure I finished them all) and thought they were more complex and better than Dresden.
I've since gone back to the Dresden books because so many people encouraged me to keep reading them. I found them better the second time around.
I think our experiences show just how much personal tastes and timing matter.
colleen the contrarian ± (... never stop fighting) ± wrote: "Honestly, I'm one of the few people around here that's sort of meh about Dresden anymore. I do miss the lighter tone of the earlier books, and I feel like it's gotten to formulaic - though I've be..."No, I'm with you. I read the first one liked it; read the second and formulaic describes it perfectly. I'm back to reading Dresden. I'm only up to book four. I like the detective aspect of the books, but I understand that gets left behind.
Cora, that second Dresden book is about the weakest in the series. I was unimpressed with the first of the Codex Alera books, but the series itself is very good. I love both of these series, and would recommend them to anyone.
Roger wrote: "Cora, that second Dresden book is about the weakest in the series. I was unimpressed with the first of the Codex Alera books, but the series itself is very good. I love both of these series, and ..."Roger, several of my friends told me the same thing, which is why I decided to give Dresden a second chance. I'm enjoying him so far.
I think the oddest book in the series is book #3. From what I've heard and experienced myself, it seems many people either find Fool Moon or Grave Peril to be one of the weakest books of the series. Then on the flip side people either really like Grave Peril or they really like Summer Knight and its one of those two that gets them hooked into the series.
I was a Summer Knight girl myself, not being that impressed with Grave Peril. I was okay with Fool Moon, though.
Death Masks was my favorite out of the ones I read. I stopped reading the series because the repetitive nature was driving me insane. I can see how this would be valuable if you read one a year (or as they came out) but, if you are marathoning them you can only hear about Dresdens car so many times before you throw the book across the room.
☆αlly☆ (litєrαry єscαpist) wrote: "Death Masks was my favorite out of the ones I read. I stopped reading the series because the repetitive nature was driving me insane. I can see how this would be valuable if you read ..."
You stopped right at the end of the "Monster of the week" scenarios and the beginning of a life altering, (both personally and professionally), event.
I hope you decide to go back at some point and give it another try or pick up where you left off.
I don't think I have disliked any of Dresden books but the early ones are definitely more variable than the later. Fool Moon is my least favourite, although I do still enjoy it. I think, for me, Summer Knight was where the series really kicked off and I became properly invested. Thinking about the repetitive nature of some of the books I think that is really part of the appeal for me. Dresden falls into the same category of "comfort reading" as Terry Pratchett does. I kinda like being able to just pick one up and be back with all the characters I know, with a pretty good idea of how the story is going to go. It's relaxing for me. But I can totally see how that could put people off the series (tbh if it was happening in a series other than Dresden I would probably be rolling my eyes too!)
Nyssa wrote: "I think the oddest book in the series is book #3. From what I've heard and experienced myself, it seems many people either find Fool Moon or Grave Peril to be one of the ..."
Nyssa I have to agree. I thought that Grave Peril was the weakest. I liked it, but not as much as the first two. Then I was all the way back in after Summer Knight.
I felt that the series has kind of kicked into overdrive lately. Not sure when the shift happened exactly. The writing has become more polished and there is a lot more complexity to the plots.
Valerie wrote: "Nyssa wrote: "I think the oddest book in the series is book #3. From what I've heard and experienced myself, it seems many people either find Fool Moon or Grave Peril to ..."
While I personally believe it picked up in Summer Knight, there was a clear transition around Death Masks and Blood Rites that changed everything!
While I know its really not fair to ask readers to wait 6 books in for the magic to happen (and I don't know that it will for them if they haven't found something to like yet, up to that point), I so think its worth it - but as you can tell I am a serious fangirl of the Dresden Files series! lol
Grave Peril is where I was hooked. Then I felt a bit let down with Summer Knight. The funny thing is, as it settled in, I grew to actually think of Summer Knight as one of my favorites in the series.
Chris wrote: "Grave Peril is where I was hooked. Then I felt a bit let down with Summer Knight. The funny thing is, as it settled in, I grew to actually think of Summer Knight as one of my favorites in the series."I'm working my way through a buddy read of the series at the moment and I have noticed that Butcher is dropping a lot of seeds in the earlier books for things which happen much later. I have noticed that I have enjoyed the earlier books a lot more this time now that know where things are going. I do think it's easier to appreciate the earlier books in retrospect.
We just demonstrated "taste". I like all the Dresden books. I thought the second was one of 2 I'd call the weakest, but I still love them. I like the Codex books, but not nearly so much as Dresden. I don't think we can always quantify "why" we like a certain book. Sometimes a book just "clicks" with a reader on a deeper level. it doesn't have to be some philosophical tome or literary heavyweight book either. It's just the way it hits us and we love it.
It won't be the same book for everyone and it sometimes seems baffling to us when someone dislikes a book we love. Just life, we're all different.
Nyssa wrote: "While I know its really not fair to ask readers to wait 6 books in for the magic to happen (and I don't know that it will for them if they haven't found something to like yet, up to that point), I so think its worth it - but as you can tell I am a serious fangirl of the Dresden Files series! lol"The funny thing is I'm the opposite. I liked the series from the start. It was only later that the formulaicness started wearing thing for me.
Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "We just demonstrated "taste". I like all the Dresden books. I thought the second was one of 2 I'd call the weakest, but I still love them. I like the Codex books, but not nearly so much as Dresden...."Mike, the Paladin, you're right on. Tastes changed too. Sometimes a book is just what we need at a certain time. I recently went back and re-read a book I thought I loved, and because it was dreadful the second time around, I wondered what I saw in it the first time.
Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "I don't think we can always quantify "why" we like a certain book. Sometimes a book just "clicks" with a reader on a deeper level. it doesn't have to be some philosophical tome or literary heavyweight book either. It's just the way it hits us and we love it.It won't be the same book for everyone and it sometimes seems baffling to us when someone dislikes a book we love. Just life, we're all different. "
Of course.
I just found it interesting that, in my experience, Fool Moon, Grave Peril, and Summer Knight seemed to be such hits or misses with so many people I've spoken to about the series and that the emphasis, in either direction, seemed to center on Grave Peril for quite a lot of those particular people.
colleen the contrarian ± (... never stop fighting) ± wrote: "Nyssa wrote: "While I know its really not fair to ask readers to wait 6 books in for the magic to happen (and I don't know that it will for them if they haven't found something to like yet, up to t..."Like my friend Christa, you seem to dance to the beat of a different drummer in general, at least with books, I've noticed. Thats not a criticism (as I told Christa - its one of the reasons I love being her friend). :)
Ladies and gentleman..Please take a look at the original post! I would like to thank my friend alansplace for creating the wonderful images that collect all of the covers (in the style that I like best- Yay! ) for the current Dresden Files books!
Another big Thank You! To Alansplace for the beautiful Codex Alera covers that I have also added to the original thread!I also removed the "New Book" announcement since it is no longer new at this point.
Once Cinder Spires is released, or should any other covers be added, I will probably hide the Dresden Reading Order list behind a spoiler.
Update #2 or is it #3....I've added the covers for the omnibus editions , as well as an image (behind a spoiler) of the contents lists.
I also went ahead and but the Chronological List behind a spoiler as well.
Nyssa wrote: "Another big Thank You! To Alansplace for the beautiful Codex Alera covers that I have also added to the original thread!..."
and 
Reading Ghost Story: a unique but compelling entry, exploring some original ideas about what exactly a ghost is and what it can do.
Flights of Fantasy
Books mentioned in this topic
Summer Knight (other topics)Skin Game (other topics)
Fool Moon (other topics)
Summer Knight (other topics)
Grave Peril (other topics)
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Yep! Steampunk. He's reporting on the first book of an initial 3 book deal for the series CINDER SPIRES, The Aeronaut's Windlass.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...