Allegiant
discussion
Anyone else disappointed about Allegiant?
YES! VERY MUCH YES YES YES. I cried so hard. I could not breathe and I think I'm permanently scarred. Plus it's really depressing to think that (spoiler is you haven't read in the next line) Tobias will 1) never fall in love again (or at least in the same way or 2) that he WILL fall in love again (I'm guessing Christina if that did happen) and he will kind of let Tris fade. ;-;-;-;-;-; I feel your pain
I was a little. I still liked the book, but I prefer books to have a happier ending. The ending was really hard to read.
Yes, but not just for that moment. I felt like the entire book was lacking, it felt to me like she just gave up on the story.
Andrea wrote: "Yes, but not just for that moment. I felt like the entire book was lacking, it felt to me like she just gave up on the story."Yes! And I felt like there was just too much Tobias/Tris and not enough of the plot and the action.
I didn't really like the ending. It was sad and I wish it hadn't ended that way. I don't mind sad endings but that was just a little too much of a sad ending. I liked the rest of the book, but Divergent was definitely my favorite out of the three.
I had major problems with the entire book.Which was unfortunate,because I was really looking forward to reading it.
(Spoiler)
For one thing the main characters didn't seem to even act like themselves,especially Four.
There were things he did that were totally out of character for him.
One example is that in Divergent one of the things he tells Tris about himself is that he is highly suspicious of all people it's in his nature.
In Allegiant he runs off with Nita a girl he barely knows and goes a long with a plan that has diasasterous consequences.
That was not the Four I knew.
He let his fears totally control him in this book.
Isn't that the whole reason he has his name only four fears and he tells Tris how he doesn't let them control him.
There were just so many things that were unbelievable and the way it ended up made everything we learned in the first two books null & void.
Not to mention I didn't like the changing POV's they sounded too similar,the mass amount of info dumping and plot holes,too many characters that we learned little or nothing about and then the ending was the worst.
(Spoiler) I understand endings that are sad and where there is loss,but there has to be a reason.There was really no reason for the sacrifice that was made.What was really accomplished by it?
To me it was very disappointing,because I really loved Divergent.
Andrea wrote: "Yes, but not just for that moment. I felt like the entire book was lacking, it felt to me like she just gave up on the story."Totally agree!
Isabelle wrote: "YES! VERY MUCH YES YES YES. I cried so hard. I could not breathe and I think I'm permanently scarred. Plus it's really depressing to think that (spoiler is you haven't read in the next line) Tobias..."Totally agree I hate that she left Tobias like that.Really what was the point?
For me, the ending made me cry for maybe like two hours or something... What I thought that Veronica Roth would give it a happy ending like Tobias and Tris could have ended up together and happier... And seriously I even had a dream last night recapping all the things that happened in the ending and I found my cheeks wet with tears in the morning. I am really very disappointed with Allegiant.
"For one thing the main characters didn't seem to even act like themselves,especially Four"yes yes yes.
I hate the ending.no reason for it to end like this.
I can't stop thinking that Tobias will forget Tris or can't forget her.after all the things his been through , it's painful.
I am really disappointed with Allegiant.
and Linn I totally agree with you.
Jasmin wrote: ""For one thing the main characters didn't seem to even act like themselves,especially Four"yes yes yes.
I hate the ending.no reason for it to end like this.
I can't stop thinking that Tobias wil..."
I agree. I understand that Tris might have been the only one strong enough to push through the death serum and to release the memory serum, but I do not think that it was right to kill her there. Sacrafice for the greater good is fine but to go through the entire series and not to give Tris and Four some kind of time together felt wrong.
I agree with what people are saying about Four not seeming like himself. He was acting like a petty little girl through the whole book, not like the rough and tough Dauntless that we knew him as before. Also, Tris's resistance to the death serum was totally bogus. The other serums affect the mind. It makes sense to be able to resist mind control. But the death serum, that's essentially just poison. Who could be immune to that? Also, Tris and Four just fought the whole time and it felt really wrong to me. I think I can speak for the entire fanbase when I say that we wanted to see them happy together, or perhaps broken up completely, but not in that ugly limbo that they left of on.
Allegiant was 526 pages of disappointment. And the ending was really the least of the issues. The *fact* of what happened in and of itself - Tris's choice - was the ONLY thing in the book that made sense. It was the only thing that felt real. However, the entire path, the storyline, that led her to that moment was fake, and so the ending actually becomes one of the worst parts of the book.The biggest offense was the big reveal of what was outside the fence and why the people were in Chicago. That was such a half-assed, ill-devised last-minute made-up cop out. Never mind that it makes absolutely no sense for anyone to do this. It completely retcons out the revelations in the cliffhanger in Insurgent. The way Veronica tries to explain that away ("Well, that's only KINDA true...") is so awkward it was insulting. It is so uncomfortably obvious that she wrote herself into a corner with that cliffhanger (with the entire series, really) and couldn't make that work along with the "scientific basis" for divergence that she suddenly decided she HAD to make the focus of the third book, because she realized she HAD to come up with a scientific explanation for it because the psychological ones don't make sense. That decision was such a misfire it's almost funny. This choice of story direction was THE worst part of the book to me and this, not the ending as people like to claim, is what ruins the series for me.
The second-worst part of the book is the destruction of Four. I realize now that Veronica doesn't actually know how to create a "character." The entire time she was just writing in her own voice. "Tris" was just Veronica on paper. So when she had to write both Tris AND Four, she was still just writing in her own voice - hence both of them sounding exactly like each other in this book. And that ruined his character for me. We really didn't need to get into his head at all, because part of his allure was the mystery. (Hasn't Veronica read any books before? The catch of the "leading man" is always in his mystery!) Seeing the world through his eyes, which were oddly similar to Tris's, which was just really Veronica, ruins the mystique. His "voice" did not match the way he was portrayed in the previous books. Veronica couldn't maintain his "character" when speaking through his perspective because she doesn't know how to create a different perspective than her own. And you know what, it's not a crime against literature to have the narrative voice your own, and writing distinct narrators in a dual perspective story is hard. But if you can't do it right, don't do it. On this one, I blame her editors for not doing their job. This should never have been published with the narration written this way.
Lauren wrote: "Allegiant was 526 pages of disappointment. And the ending was really the least of the issues. The *fact* of what happened in and of itself - Tris's choice - was the ONLY thing in the book that ma..."Well said!
Extremely. I looked forward to it for months and felt so devastated and let down by that ending.spoilery:
I hated how Tris & Tobias were constantly fighting and continuing to keep things from the other. I was so happy when they finally made up and were almost in a good place with their relationship again towards the end of the book - only to have their happiness be taken away so horribly. After all they had been through, it really bothered me that they had finally made up and were happy again and then she was killed so they didnt at least get a chance to try to have a happy ending together.
Lauren wrote: "Allegiant was 526 pages of disappointment. And the ending was really the least of the issues. The *fact* of what happened in and of itself - Tris's choice - was the ONLY thing in the book that ma..."Bridget wrote: "I agree with what people are saying about Four not seeming like himself. He was acting like a petty little girl through the whole book, not like the rough and tough Dauntless that we knew him as be..."
Exactly Lauren.The world building and life outside the fence was ridiculous and at times very boring.Way too much info that didn't make sense being thrown at us,not to mention now yet another conflict between the GP/GD It was just all too much.
Four did so many uncharacteristic things in this book.It just bugged me.The weird relationship with his mother(Who I didn't believe for a second would give up all her years of revenge,ploting and planning,just to be reunited with the son she cared so little about),running off with Nita whom he barely knew,when he told Tris he is suspicious of all people and then blindly going along with her plan,letting his fears control him,which I thought was the big thing of him being called Four only four fears and he told Tris he doesn't let them control him.As Andi said he was a total emotional man-child and it took everything away from the allure of Four.I felt like I knew Four's character more than Veronica did.
Tris never being wrong about anything got very annoying and I was just sick that she left us with pages of Four's grief without any resolution at all.Two years later he's still heartbroken.
I mean after Tris died did anyone really care that the plug was pulled on Uriah?
Like I said before it was like the motto was "Life Sucks, The End."
The end was just part of the problem it was the journey getting to the end, and then to have a death that is basically meaningless and then glossed over like it's a supporting character was what really upset me.
Robin wrote: "Extremely. I looked forward to it for months and felt so devastated and let down by that ending.spoilery:
I hated how Tris & Tobias were constantly fighting and continuing to keep things from t..."
Totally agree they were either fighting or making out.I hated the way she lied to him constantly and then in Allegiant he started to act just like her.
I don't know. I mean, everybody commenting on here seems to be disappointed, but I liked it. I thought Tris dying was really surprising, and I liked how it was more realistic instead of a happily ever after kinda thing. They were either fighting or making out, which kind of bothered me, but it also seemed realistic. They were under a lot of stress, and I think that is what would happen. (Holding on to each other when they can but getting ticked off easily.) I don't think Allegiant was as good as Divergent and Insurgent, but I don't think it was necessaraly bad.
I think the ending was true to her character. However I am a Happily Ever After sort of gal especially after being so emotionally invested in several books. It is nice to get something back at the end.
Maria wrote: "I don't know. I mean, everybody commenting on here seems to be disappointed, but I liked it. I thought Tris dying was really surprising, and I liked how it was more realistic instead of a happily e..."I really don't mind when main characters die. But in this case it just wasn't well written. I agree that throughout the whole series it was more than expected that Tris would end up dead. What was disapointing was the way Veronica portrayed the death of one of the strongest characters ever written in YA fiction. She deserved better than dying by the hands of a corporative in a wheel chair. I was so disapointed that I didn't even feel moved by Four's suffering in the end, it all just felt really forced and floppy.
Camila wrote: "Maria wrote: "I don't know. I mean, everybody commenting on here seems to be disappointed, but I liked it. I thought Tris dying was really surprising, and I liked how it was more realistic instead ..."Totally agree and to me it was like it was glossed over like she was a supporting character.
Linn wrote: "I had major problems with the entire book.Which was unfortunate,because I was really looking forward to reading it.
(Spoiler)
For one thing the main characters didn't seem to even act like thems..."
I totally agree with you about the characters acting differently, specifically Four. The ending was a complete waste also. (SPOILER) Why build up on Tris and Four and their relationship if you're going to just end it. The book would have been just as good...or shall I say just as bad...without the dramatics at the end. Seemed like a forced way to get a big emotion out of the readers. Especially since the whole story was lacking emotion throughout.
The entire book had the feel of not going through proper editing.
There were already many existing topics that have titles expressing disappointment. I would guess that just glancing at those titles would answer the question posed above ("Anyone else disappointed about Allegiant?").
Really, what annoyed was the fact that Tris died and Four never healed from that. Don't even get me started with the ashes...I literally feel the tears coming on let me stop.
I didn't have to force myself to keep reading like I did with Insurgent, but yeah priorities were pretty whacked. A part of me wishes I would have stopped at the end of Divergent
I never thought that an author could be so cruel to kill of a main character that most people loved. I didn't even thought of Allegiant being such a tragic book. To be honest though, I actually cried more over Uriah than Tris, and Tris's death wasn't even that dramatic. I felt her dead was unnecessary.The book would probably disappoint me even more if Tobias somehow ends up with Christina or whoever else...
Yeah Allegiant disappointed me quite a lot since the first book was so fascinating.
Silhouette Violinist wrote: "I never thought that an author could be so cruel to kill of a main character that most people loved. I didn't even thought of Allegiant being such a tragic book. To be honest though, I actually cri..."Don't read George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones) series if you don't like main characters killed off.
I'm also glad that Tobias and Christina ended up friends instead of starting some relationship.. that would have been awful.
Brolie wrote: "Silhouette Violinist wrote: "I never thought that an author could be so cruel to kill of a main character that most people loved. I didn't even thought of Allegiant being such a tragic book. To be ..."I'll take the advice :) I just can't stand Tris's death :O
Yeah... since the main part of the novel Tobias was always so crazy about Tris.
I actually agree with everyones statement....but I still really liked it. lol
Linn wrote: "I had major problems with the entire book.Which was unfortunate,because I was really looking forward to reading it.
(Spoiler)
For one thing the main characters didn't seem to even act like thems..."
I like the way this has been said...yes that is what I felt. Felt like an author came back and wrote this with complete amnesia about the characters . The death (not physical) of the lovely characters we knew is why nobody can relate to this book. This is a comedy of errors. But the errors are engineered. Roth just wanted a poignant ending; she brought it about, there was no reason whatsoever.
Neha wrote: "The death (not physical) of the lovely characters we knew is why nobody can relate to this book. "This perfectly expresses the problem many people had with the characters in this book! Four regresses into an emotional child who can't get a hold of his fears. And Tris transforms into an idealized and romanticized hero of sacrifice who can do no wrong.
Lauren wrote: "Allegiant was 526 pages of disappointment. And the ending was really the least of the issues. The *fact* of what happened in and of itself - Tris's choice - was the ONLY thing in the book that ma..."Well stated Lauren. I'm still beyond pissed about Allegiant it really ruined the entire Trilogy for me. I agree Veronica ruined Four's allure. I believe Veronica wasn't solely to blame for this embarrassment of a book and the final one at that but so too was her editors. Why the hell didn't they tell her the book was crap? Veronica thought it was a masterpiece which makes me question her sanity as for the publishers I guess they figured the fans would buy because we had waited so long and that was all that mattered to to them who cares that it sucked . . . they made their millions ... at our expense.
Those who loved Allegiant will call her brave but I refuse to call her that. She was selfish to write a conclusion that “she” wanted to write. If she were a good writer, she would’ve taken the expectations of her fans into account and would’ve delivered a satisfying conclusion. She has written an awful book, ruined what could become an amazing series and is now sitting with millions of dollars in her pocket. Also, if I wanted to read something realistic I would’ve read newspaper or stuck to non-fiction instead of picking a sci-fi/dystopian book. This is not history, its fiction and it’s not bound to realism.
I agree that the book was a bit slow at times and it was not as action packed as Divergent and Allegiant. But I can get over that because what more do you expect? I can't see Tris and Tobias going into action straight away when they have just been introduced to a new world that they barely know anything about. That would be illogical and unnecessary. Why fight for a world you don't know anything abou,t right? To be honest, I also really enjoyed just learning about the world outside of Chicago and so I didn't mind the lack of action. Also, the character development in Allegiant is amazing and I think it was nice that there was not much action and the characters were just allowed to fully grow.I honestly don't understand why everyone is so disappointed with Allegiant (especially the ending) because I honestly could not think of a better ending. *SPOILER* Letting Tris live would not have felt right and it just would not be true to her character. I can not imagine Tris letting Caleb die when she really believes that she could survive. The ending really made Tris' character 'whole'. By the end, she was sure of who she is and she finally understood the real meaning of self-sacrifice, something she struggled with in the past two books. I think when deciding about the ending, a lot of people base their opinion on how sad they were about her death and not about how well planned the plot was (because her death was not something Veronica Roth could come up with last minute and pull off like she did). There really is no better ending, if you really think about it.
I could write so much more but I'll end up ranting, but I think Allegiant was not a disappointment and it was a great way to end the series. Maybe I'm just really attached to the series and the characters to say anything bad about the book but I honestly think that Allegiant was a great last instalment. Veronica did not get lazy and I could not have asked for a better last book.
Should I chuckle or guffaw?I think everyone is in agreement that there was no other alternative than for Tris to take Caleb's place. There was no way she would ever let him go. That was obvious. It was obvious what was going to happen as soon as they came up with this stupid plan. But I have a hard time accepting this moment as genuine when the entire path that led her to it was fake.
The storyline was contrived, Patricia.
Every single decision the characters made in creating this situation was not remotely believable or logical. Every single alternative, every single rational thought was ignored. There was absolutely no reason for them to go on a suicide mission in the first place. That was ridiculously pointless. There were a thousand other things they could have done to try to stop the Bureau; it is utterly unbelievable that they make no effort to come up with an idea that didn't involve someone dying. It was completely unbelievable that they would decide to erase the Bureau's memories after the entire book was spent pointing out how evil and depraved the Bureau is for using this tactic themselves. This was totally out of character. And it's also unbelievable that they can only rely on the one way to get the memory serum even though it means someone would have to die. It was not realistic or believable that they wouldn't try to do it another way, even though options were staring them in the face. The suicide mission was forced just to create the moment where Tris can sacrifice herself for the right reasons. The situation wasn't real.
No, there was no better ending to the situation Veronica created - she carefully manipulated the story out of logic and common sense to create the situation, after all. There was nothing else that would have been done other than for Tris to take Caleb's place. However, the only reason she actually died was because Veronica forced her death. She allowed her to survive the death serum to show that she really didn't want to die - and since she was now able to carry out the mission without dying, the plot didn't require her to die anymore. But she had her die anyway (sticking David in the scene to shoot her) simply because she accepted death as a possibility for her actions. And because she accepted this responsibility for the right reasons, she earned the right to claim her ending. That was literally why she died. Not because the story required her to, but because it was symbolic.
That's kind of why people don't like the ending.
I see now why people have a strong dislike for the ending, so thank you for pointing that out. Because now I'm a lot less confused as to why everyone hated the ending so much. I never really saw the storyline as contrived. I knew it was planned, because no one can come up with an ending without planning it. But I don't think it was planned so much that it seemed artificial. I never really thought of their plan as being out of character. The way I saw it, it was the most logical thing to do. It's immoral, yes, but to be honest, I like that about it because it makes me, the reader, question their actions. And at some point the characters start to question their own actions, too. But I feel like despite the plan being immoral, there was fair reasoning for it, like Tris said, "It's not a perfect situation. But when you have to choose between two bad options, you pick the one that saves the people you love and believe in most." I thought this was very reasonable because I couldn't think of anything else they could have done to save Chicago and their plan had a good outcome and they literally changed society. So I didn't feel that the mission was forced to give Tris an opportunity to die. I felt that she died, not because of the mission itself, but because of her selflessness and her want to save Caleb. It wasn't the plot that made her die, it was her own characterisation. That's how I interpreted it. So I didn't feel it was at all manipulated and honestly, I probably would have done what Tris did if I was in her situation.Everyone has different viewpoints on the plot and the characters, and my view point just happens to make me really like the ending and read it differently than others. However, I now can see clearly why the majority disliked the ending (thank you for explaining that because I was so confused before). I think someone's opinion on the ending just really depends on where you stand and your own personal context and what you believe in and how you comprehend it etc. I still love the ending but now, I have a better understanding as to why it's hated so much, so thank you for explaining that.
I could think of 47 other things to do to save Chicago. And yes, the mission was forced. It's a story. Everything that happens in a story is for a reason. A plotline was calculated to lead to a specific climax. And this one was clearly calculated to bring Tris into this position, because there was absolutely no logical reason whatsoever for them to be doing this otherwise.And the thing is, I don't necessarily have an issue with the fact that they did a terrible and immoral thing to "win." In theory, that part made the story interesting and the characters more "real" because sometimes the good guys do have to be the bad guys and sometimes people have to make terrible decisions because they don't have any choice. (It doesn't really work here because they did have a choice, they just conveniently, for the story purpose of sacrifice, ignored them all.) Now, in another context, this storyline would be fine with me.
However.
The entire point of this scenario was for Tris to be in a position where she can make a selfless decision to sacrifice herself. For her to do what she does completely negates the point, because their plan was actually quite selfish. When you go out of your way to do something bad to someone because you want to save someone else, that's selfish. It's moral relativism: "This is a bad thing to do, but I guess it's not quite as bad as what they're doing since my outcome will benefit ME."
And their plan was very out of character. They were never portrayed as being illogical, unintelligent and immoral, and this mission was all of those. It was not logical because it's a crazy and evil thing to do, and the bigger issue (reprogramming the Bureau's memories) was preposterous. It was not smart because there were dozens of other things they could have done instead and, if they couldn't think of anything but this, still another dozen ways to go about it other than breaking into a room that would kill them. And obviously it was not moral because it was the exact same evil thing the Bureau was doing. I truly could not understand why the book spent so much time establishing how evil the memory reset thing was and how evil the Bureau is for doing that to people, just to have Tris and the rest of them decide to use it. I didn't understand why I was supposed to root for them, then. They became villains themselves.
And no, the mission wasn't forced to give Tris the opportunity to die. It was forced to give her the opportunity to discover her belief in sacrifice. It wasn't the plot that made her die OR her characterization. The author made her die just because, now that she knew who she was, her journey was over. Seriously. That's what she said. That was the reason she had her die.
I don't mind having the main character die, and I wouldn't have minded having THIS character die, if it was actually shown to be necessary for anything other than symbolism. You have to show that this was the only option to do what the plot needed to do, the only method to achieve it, and the only person who was able to do it. None of this applies to this story. This was not the only option for them to stop the Bureau, this was not the only method for them to go about this option in the first place, and Tris was not the only person who could do it. Oh, she may have been the only person who could do it without dying from the death serum, but that was not the issue for them. They fully expected whoever would go on the mission to die, and so therefore it honestly didn't matter which one of them went. Any character could have died in there. It was only necessary for Tris to go if they wanted someone to go in there and SURVIVE, because she was the only one who was able to do THAT. But she died anyway so it made no difference. It honestly was not necessary for Tris to be the one to go in that room because, quite literally, they were all perfectly capable of putting one foot in front of the other and walking into that room and dying just the same. If the "who" is interchangeable from a plot perspective, then this person's death is not necessary.
And the mission didn't change anything. The Bureau is just ONE branch of the larger organization. The experiment was going on everywhere. None of those other cities were affected by this at all. Society at large was still a mess. We see that the reset allowed the Bureau to be reprogrammed to push for genetic equality and Chicago turned into a haven for GDs and GPs everywhere. That is totally unbelievable! So the government knows that this entire branch was the victim of a memory serum "accident" and has completely lost their memories, had a bunch of random people from within the experiment "reeducate" them on a totally new agenda that does not coincide with the real government agenda, and then they just let them stay in charge and do it? Give me a break. These people would just be replaced by new employees who hadn't (literally) lost their minds.
I still believe what I believe about the book because like I said, everyone reads a story differently depending on their own personal context and other factors. When a group reads a story, not everyone will read it the same, that is a given. Everyone will have a different understanding and thus, a different opinion. And this is my opinion.I think your points are pretty valid, but that doesn't mean that mine are any less valid than yours (and it feels like you're making my points seem wrong, you probably aren't but that's just how I feel). I don't think that their way to solve the problem made them less heroic. To me, their intentions were not villainous and I do believe they made a right choice. You can continue to argue that it wasn't the right choice but to me, it was. That's my opinion.
I also still believe that Tris died as a result of her character, a result of who she is. You can say that Tris died because her journey was over and that's fine, but I still think her death was a consequence of her want to sacrifice herself and save her brother. When I read the book, I didn't think "Oh, she died because she now knows what self-sacrifice is." I believe (and still do) that she died due to a series of unfortunate events and her selflessness that lead her to those events. (I don't know who you're referring to when you said "That's what she said." I assume the 'she' is Veronica Roth? But again, the author can say this is the reason for this and blah, but this is my understanding of it).
So, that's my take on Allegiant. That's my reading of it and that's why I'm happy about the ending and why I love it so much. You may think that there could have been a hundred other options and that the characters became villainous, and I could see where you're coming from, but to me, there is only that one option and I still see the characters as being heroic. And neither of us are more right than the other, because no reading is wrong (given that it is supported with the right evidence), and you could continue to argue about the flaws in the prose and the plot and the characters etc. but I still believe that Allegiant was a great ending to the trilogy and I'm still happy about it and I still love the book.
I also still believe that Tris died as a result of her character, a result of who she is. You can say that Tris died because her journey was over and that's fine, but I still think her death was a consequence of her want to sacrifice herself and save her brother. When I read the book, I didn't think "Oh, she died because she now knows what self-sacrifice is." I believe (and still do) that she died due to a series of unfortunate events and her selflessness that lead her to those events. (I don't know who you're referring to when you said "That's what she said." I assume the 'she' is Veronica Roth? But again, the author can say this is the reason for this and blah, but this is my understanding of it).No, she did die because her journey was over, and yes, I am referring to Veronica Roth's own explanation when I say this. This is literally what she says in her blog where she explains why she had Tris die. Since Tris has the weird ability to resist serums unless she deep down wants them to work, she had her survive the death serum as proof that she took Caleb's place purely out of love and selflessness. She didn't want to die, and she wasn't trying to die; she wasn't deliberately trying to be a sacrifice, she was just trying to save her brother. But David was added to the scene to kill her anyway. Veronica Roth says that she made Tris die anyway because it was the end she had chosen. Her journey throughout the series was about trying to understand selflessness and sacrifice, and now that she has completed her understanding, her journey was over and she was done.
That is why she died: because she's done now. And that is why so many people argue that it wasn't necessary, because it wasn't: it was deliberately arbitrary and noticeably came off as such.
However, I'm glad that you choose to read another meaning into her death, because at least yours, unlike Veronica's, has an inkling of logic to it.
Okay, now I fully understand what you're saying. And now that what you're trying to say is clear, I can see why people are so aggravated by the way Allegiant was written. And knowing the true purpose of her death, I think I'd rather believe that she died due to selflessness than only consider Roth's intentions with the character (I will not let Veronica Roth ruin my love for Allegiant and the way I see Tris haha). Also, do you have a link to her blog post? It sounds intriguing.
Lauren wrote: "So the government knows that this entire branch was the victim of a memory serum "accident" and has completely lost their memories, had a bunch of random people from within the experiment "reeducate" them on a totally new agenda that does not coincide with the real government agenda, and then they just let them stay in charge and do it? Give me a break. These people would just be replaced by new employees who hadn't (literally) lost their minds."
Now I liked Roth's blog post, but it's this Lauren wrote that rankled from the beginning about their plan. It was hare-brained. It wasn't even childish. Just stupid. No other record of a well-documented experiment talks of the previous decisions or views of the people controlling the experiment,or no secret archive, diary etc. exists, telling David or whoever, what he thought prior to his memory loss. Imagine them finding such a thing and the whole sacrifice going down the drain.
As also the twist of David having it for Tris's mother and trusting her over the rest for that reason alone. And yet pulling the trigger.
Lauren wrote: "The catch of the "leading man" is always in his mystery!) Seeing the world through his eyes, which were oddly similar to Tris's, which was just really Veronica, ruins the mystique. His "voice" did not match the way he was portrayed in the previous books. Veronica couldn't maintain his "character" when speaking through his perspective because she doesn't know how to create a different perspective than her own. And you know what, it's not a crime against literature to have the narrative voice your own, and writing distinct narrators in a dual perspective story is hard. But if you can't do it right, don't do it."
Something I felt acutely and that made me think initially I was getting apathetic, not "touched" at all by the change of narrative...feels I'm vindicated. Nothing of Tobias seeps through when you're reading his narrative: it's just a change of gender, that's all. No unique insights. Just a general grumpiness for Tobias. And not so for Tris. That's it.
I am.I am super duper disappointed with Allegiant.
Ichaarrifianty wrote: "I am.I am super duper disappointed with Allegiant."
I agree 100%
Lauren wrote: "The Bureau is just ONE branch of the larger organization. The experiment was going on everywhere. None of those other cities were affected by this at all."I don't recall this being specified in the book, and I had the distinct impression that there was just the one centralized Bureau of Genetic Welfare, in charge of all of the experiments. If there was a place in the text specifying that there were branches of the Bureau in every metropolitan area, and that each was in charge of just its own regional experiment(s), please let me know where that occurs.
They said they were in charge of Chicago.
Lauren wrote: "They said they were in charge of Chicago."Where does it say that? I just don't recall that at all....
I, too, was disappointed with Allegiant. After devouring Divergent and Insurgent, I had high expectations for the final installment. I felt that Roth's decision to split the narration between Tris and Tobias was part of the problem with the book. After developing Tris's character and voice so well, her choice to split the narration seemed wrong. Part of it seemed necessitated by the ending (SPOILER) and how Tobias survives after Tris's death, BUT Roth could not render Tobias's voice authentically in my opinion. Tobias's voice did not distinguish itself from Tris's well enough, and I often found myself confused as to who was speaking and had to review the beginning of a chapter to remind myself. Also, I agree with earlier posts that the romance between Tris and Tobias became too much of a focus instead of the actual story itself, which most likely suffered because of so much attention placed on the romance. Either way, I was severely disappointed in the book.
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I didn't really care about the ending, but the entire book lacked. I was so annoyed by Tobias & Tris getting turned on every five seconds and how they would make out AT LEAST every page. I loved their relationship in previous books but I feel like Veronica spent too much time trying to write the romance instead of patching up the plot holes.
Also, Tobias acted like a whiny little girl the entire book and Tris's voice was similar; I just could NOT like them in this book.