7. ANTONY AND CLEOPATRA ~ November 4th ~ November 10th ~ PART FOUR - The Queen of Beasts - 36 BC to 33 BC - Sections 15 - 17 - (265-323); No-Spoilers Please

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Hello Everyone,

For the week of November 4th - November 10th, we are reading Part Four - The Queen of Beasts - 36 BC to 33 BC - Sections 15 - 17 of the book Antony and Cleopatra.

The seventh week's reading assignment is:

Week 7 – November 4th - November 10th
Part Four - The Queen of Beasts - 36 BC to 33 BC - Sections 15 - 17 - (265-323)

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off on September 23rd.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle. This weekly thread will be opened up on November 4th.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Vicki Cline will be moderating this discussion and the back-up will be Jill.

Welcome,

Bentley

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS, SELECT VIEW ALL

by Colleen McCullough

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

Here is the link to the thread titled Mechanics of the Board which will help you with the citations and how to do them.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...

Introduction Thread:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Table of Contents and Syllabus

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

Here is the link:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author may have used in his research or in her notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc. with proper citations or other books either nonfiction or historical fiction that relate to the subject matter of the book itself. No self-promotion, please.

Here is the link:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD

by Colleen McCullough

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Chapter Overview and Summaries

Part IV

The Queen of Beasts - 36 BC to 33 BC

Section – 15

Cleopatra and Caesarion arrive in Antioch in full display. She’s not in love with Antony (although the sex is delicious), but he’s obviously in love with her, and she takes full advantage of that. And his advisors are aware of the unequal power dynamic. She demands full control over much of Syria and Cyprus; in return he wants gold to finance his foray into Parthian territory. She proposes that he eventually become her consort and rule the East with her. She was planning on coming on the Parthian campaign with him, to the dismay of his legates, but at the last minute she finds herself pregnant and returns to Egypt.

Section – 16

Antony has a large army and a very large baggage train, containing all the siege equipment and supplies for the army. The baggage train left weeks ago but the army catches up to it just as the terrain gets more difficult. The mountains in this area are like nothing they’ve seen in Italy. Antony gets advice from a Parthian noble, Monaeses, who has supposedly fled for his life; Ahenobarbus doesn’t trust him. They are also getting aid from the kings of Armenia and Media Atropatene. From Artaxata in Armenia the army marches south to Phraaspa, hoping to surprise the Parthians by this attack from the north. The baggage train is quite a bit behind the army, and is captured by Monaeses and one of the “allied” kings. Antony reaches Phraaspa with his army intact but with no way to attack the city since the siege equipment never gets there. After several weeks they have to retreat because the weather is getting bad and they don’t want to be caught in the mountains when the storms hit. The main part of the army finally makes it back to Syria, many men with frostbitten toes and fingers, but many of the non-Roman auxiliaries were set upon and killed or captured. Antony is devastated and drinks heavily, asking to see Cleopatra. She finally comes, bringing supplies and medical aid.

Section – 17

Agrippa has been putting together a naval fleet and training oarsmen and marines at Portus Julius, a harbor he constructed from a couple of lakes near Baiae. Octavian has a plan to lure Sextus Pompey into a naval battle and surprise him in the Straights of Messina. Lepidus is charged with leading troops on the west side of Sicily. The plan works well; Sextus’ fleet is destroyed and he flees, hoping for help from Antony. Lepidus decides that he should get credit for the win instead of low-born Agrippa. Octavian secretly goes to all the legions under Lepidus’ command and gets their backing. He then deprives Lepidus of everything but his post as Pontifex Maximus, but he can never return to Rome.

A few months later, back in Rome, there are rumors that Antony has had a wonderful victory over the Parthians. Octavian knows better, having excellent intelligence, but has the Senate declare a thanksgiving of twenty days. Some weeks later, armed with evidence of Antony’s defeat, he harps on the fact that Antony didn’t come to Rome for help, but to Cleopatra. He also mentions that Antony wept in her lap, drunk. Octavian reiterates that he will never go to war against a fellow Roman. He knows that if he has to go against Antony, he can claim to be fighting against Cleopatra.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

What a disaster Antony's Parthian campaign was! It's hard to believe he was considered a good general. I guess he did really well at Philippi, going after Caesar's assassins. And then, getting drunk for weeks and wailing for Cleopatra. Octavian certainly played his hand well, first praising Antony, then humiliating him in the Senate.

[G]

I don't really understand why he failed so badly. Was it entirely arrogance? The sense I am getting is that Octavian sees that Antony is a train wreck waiting to happen, and is just watching it as it develops. Octavian understands that Cleopatra is out for herself but Antony is still seeing himself as a 'manly man' without realizing she is a ruler, a queen and in many respects an adversary.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Antony seems not to be a very good planner. Not taking care of the baggage train was disastrous, and it sounds like he had too many troops. Also he trusted the wrong people, but how do you know who is trustworthy?