MK & TCK Book Club discussion
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Third Culture Kids
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Chapter 10: Relational Patterns
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Hello everyone! I was glad to facilitate a discussion on this chapter as I find myself discussing this issue regularly with new friends. Last year a friend of mine (monocultural) came to and said "We need to talk..." I thought "Uh oh what have I done now?" And one of the first things she said was: "Do you still want to me friends with me?" And I realised I had got comfortable in the friendship so I was doing a lot of small talk with her, rather than lots of deep stuff. So she thought I had given up on our friendship. I had followed the TCK pattern of making friends rather than the monocultural one. So I hurriedly reassured her that I of course wanted to continue being friends...and went on to explain a bit of this chapter.Have you ever had that sort of experience? Or have you found yourself in miscommunication with a member of the opposite sex cause you jump in with a deep level conversation? I would love to hear some of your thoughts on how TCK do relationships.
I have great difficulty making friends with monoculturals. In the 40 years since I came back to America for college, I have made only three close friends, and in each instance I have gone up to the person and said, "I think we are supposed to be friends. What do you think?" Then I was able to explain my own struggles with making friends in a way that was not too intimidating. In each case I became very close to that person, but then in a few years moved away. That is the story of my life.
I was surprised at your post. As soon as people find out I AM an MK, they are filled with questions. And with women, I find that they want deep conversations. In fact, very few peopl don't. And for me (I've worked in 9 countries, lived in four) striking up conversations with people is most often rewarding. Only if I'm tired and on a flight somewhere will I just go to sleep. The hardest people to talk to are women in business dress...very uptight, nervous, panicky, workaholics.
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Generally, it frustrated me that I couldn't talk with anyone (including women) about things in a way that was comfortable and interesting for me. Meanwhile, small talk seemed like a waste of time, because I couldn't imagine how much energy would go into small talk with people who may never become friends in the long run.
There was one exception to this problem though: I was able to talk with both men and women in my classes. Being in the same major meant we shared at least one similar interest, which opened a door to deeper conversations about International Studies (perfect choice for a TCK, right?) and Psychology. I was deeply interested in both subjects, so I came away from university with a handful of friendships based on those interests.
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Wayne, I wish I had the same reception from people as you! I generally don't get people expressing interest in my background, although they will usually say something about their impressions of Austria's beautiful scenery, or they'll ask if I'm still fluent in German. That's generally where it stops. And I'm not upset about it, either. I remind myself to give them the benefit of the doubt because, after getting accustomed to my culture's (in North America) way of relating to people, I also hesitate to ask people deep questions. It usually takes me some time to observe people (e.g. at work), and I test the waters with questions that go a bit beyond small talk, and then if the opportunity arises I'll ask deeper questions. But those times are few and far between. So I'm not disappointed in individuals who don't ask me about my background or want to talk about deeper things; I'm rather disappointed in our culture which doesn't really encourage deep and meaningful conversations.
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That's hard, Cynthia, I'm sorry to hear it! I've had a hard time making close friends too! I've been back in my passport country since age 10, and as you know, kids can be cruel at that age. Enough kids bullied me and my brother about our accents, our lack of pop culture knowledge, our outdated clothes, etc., that I slowly internalized the message that my differences would always prevent me from being accepted. Even 20+ years later, I have to fight that mindset when I enter a new community. I find it nearly impossible to shake the belief that I just don't have this magic *something* that'll make people want to be friends with me. I do have a few close friends, and I've often wondered why they want to keep me in their life. One of them is my cousin, who loves everybody who wants to be friends with her, so she has been a saving grace in my life. Another one is her brother, who's very similar. A third is a friend from my teen years; we attended the same church and he's been a loyal friend ever since, despite not having much in common. I think I'm going to ask him why he hangs on the next time I talk to him! lol :)
This reminds me of another relational pattern in my life. Like some TCKs, because my family was quite nomadic when I was a kid, now as an adult I get the occasional impulse to relocate. And that includes relationships too. Sometimes I feel like I've reached the end of my time in a community or in a friendship, and it's not due to any problem. It's always caused by a vague restlessness that I can't define. And I've even felt this way about my closest friends, which makes me feel terrible! I came close to ending one of my closest friendships, purely because of this nomadic impulse. Thankfully, I didn't follow through!
My reflex is to talk about deep/meaningful things in the earlier stages of getting to know someone, but my experience has been that it usually goes one way (from me to him/her). It then ends up feeling like a patient-counselor relationship; it’s unequal investment in the friendship. (It’s amazing how few people there are who are willing to be vulnerable and let others invest in them.) I’ve also found that the majority of people at my church tend to live in shallow, social relationships and having fun is the ‘name of the game.’ Because of all of this, I tend to sit back more than engage in relationships. I also take a more passive role and let others guide how they want the relationship to progress. If they only talk about shallow things, I’ll engage up to a point. But these relationships drain me since I’m an introvert and I’d much rather be alone than in a superficial or shallow friendship. The deeper friendships are much harder to come by. I’ve been burned several times when I’ve opened up. That also makes me more cautions. But, thankfully, I do have several friends who mean a lot to me and we can invest in each others’ lives.
Same here - as an introvert, I made a few tentative forays towards friendship early on, and then retreated into my shell when I felt like such an alien. Now I mainly keep to myself and only open up if someone really seems interested (which is exceedingly rare). I don't start with deeper conversations at all, but stay very shallow with people, and let them decide if they want to go deeper. I have practiced engaging in small talk until it has become a shield. I actually feel really exposed when I open up at all.
I really don't feel that I know how to relate to people in American culture - still, after 19 years. I lived outside of the U.S. from age 3 to 18 (England, Germany/Switzerland, Philippines), never felt like I was American my whole life, then came here for college, got married, and stayed. But I blend in a bit too well, I think. Like a chameleon, I've lost a sense of myself that I can offer to anyone in friendship.
I haven't had a close friendship in the last 15 years (since my college roommate, who was also a TCK). I don't go deep with anyone at all, rather than going deeper than expected at the start. Maybe that's just because I haven't really tried to have any real friendships for a long time. But I do know that whenever I go 'home' (England, where my parents live now), I connect with people much more instantly, and feel like I have more to say to old friends from when I was 13 than anyone I know now.
Hi I have really enjoyed your thoughts and reading about your experiences. One thing I've realised over the years in relationships are that we are different personalities and those affect who we make friends with as much as some of our TCK experiences. I find it helpful if I understand myself and therefore can explain myself to others. This has also made me more confident in myself and able to initiate friendships - yes I am different and always will be, but real friends will be interested in the real me - whether they are cross cultural or monocultural
Wow. I relate to most of what has been said here. I've found it easier when the person is not of the same generation, as there is less expectation of being "the same". But that said I have found the whole process of finding friends, and keeping them difficult. I do prefer to make friends on deeper topics. I spoke to one monocultural counsellor (who had no understanding of the TCK experience), who accused me of being inflexible & only interested in getting to know people who were "unique" but not "ordinary". I just couldn't get him to understand that what is unique or ordinary is more about statistics (majority/minority) than specific interests, and people weren't interested in my "ordinary"...I gave him a copy of the book & he still didn't get it!
Another aspect that took a while was the way language is used. In Australia people often use statements as a question. I always found it hard to know how to respond, and often felt judged. I had a conversation only recently with a Kenyan about it, who's response was "I have to ask 'Are you asking me or telling me?' ". And I thought "that's exactly it! I'm never sure!".
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"One common complaint from at least Canadian and U.S. American TCKs is that they feel people in their home cultures are "shallow." Conversations with peers seem boring, and the TCKs long for the good ole days with their international friends. Why is this such a common complaint?" (p. 133) And the authors go on to discuss different levels of relationships.
So it's interesting to hear that a lot of TCKs (from North America, at least) share the feelings that we've expressed here.
I do identify with so much of what is said here. At age 19, 3 years into being 'back' in England, I am trying to challenge myself to rediscover what I have to personally offer in relationships instead of hiding behind the shield of small talk. I got pretty good at it, but I never stuck with anyone- I had this bright bubbly exterior, and would just never continue any relationship. Now, I'm struggling to face the fact that the only real friends I have made in my now country are visitors from other countries- oh, the irony. I find it really hard not to give up. I tend to just see how much other people talk to me, take their lead, I guess keep living the internalised belief that I am too different, there's something wrong with me. I know this is not true. I've experienced a lot of healing recently. But I still find it hard to approach having nothing in common with people, having to put in a lot of effort, especially as I am introverted prefer to have genuine one on one conversations. On the other hand, I shy away from these because of bad experiences- way too many times giving guys the wrong impression, scaring people off... Also I still find it easier to approach guys than girls (or did), I guess there's so much more pressure to have stuff in common with people of your gender?
I relate to everything you said, even down to finding it easier to approach guys and then giving them the wrong idea.I don't know about everyone else here, but it helps me just to know that this is actually 'normal' for a certain group of people and that there are those out there who can relate to me as well. I only wish I had discovered this years ago. And that I could find one person where I live that I'm able to connect with. Just one would do! So many light bulbs are going off in my head right now. Hopefully I can take what I'm learning about myself and improve how I approach friendships.
Jared wrote: "My reflex is to talk about deep/meaningful things in the earlier stages of getting to know someoneI used to do the same thing. I have learned slowly to go slower! I have also worked to accept and feel more natural about the "shallow" friendships. I think I was very judgmental of outer things, a person's appearance or their style of humor, and from that chose not to engage with certain people. The thing is, *everyone* has a story, has a background, has experiences. I think it was that slow and steady getting to know someone who I didn't think originally I was interested in befriending worked out well.
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Well said, Bethany.
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A quick note to book club members: As always, please feel free to keep the conversation going in this thread. Please note that while the facilitators have committed to participate during the week of their chapter, they may not be able to continue in our discussions as we move on. Thanks for all your fantastic stories and insights so far, Everyone!
I'm thrilled to introduce our next facilitator, Jo Clifford. She is a TCK from the UK who was born and brought up in Africa. She founded Xenos, an organisation that works with TCKs in the UK, before working with Member Care By Radio based in Vienna, Austria producing radio programmes to support TCKs and their families. At present she is working in Tanzania producing audio and visual media in local languages, while continuing to advise TCKs and their parents in her spare time. :)