SOLVED. Fantasy book featuring secondary character described as 'Third Sword' or similar [s]

[Rob]

I have in mind a book. It is a fantasy book. It is probably at least fifteen years old. There is a character in it who comes from a country with a military tradition which ranks all its swordsmen and he is described as being one of the best i.e. he was the third ranked sword of 'such and such a place'. He may even have been the number 1 rank but in any case their swordsmanship is so good that anyone from that country skilled enough to have any ranking at all is incredibly deadly compared to someone from another country, no matter how good on their own terms. He has had to leave that country under a cloud - it is presented as unusual for the swordsmen of that place to be found outside their own country. For some reason I am picturing a ship in connection with this - he may be introduced to the story during an ocean voyage. The character in question is not a major player, certainly not one of the heroes of the story, although I think he may become important after he is introduced.

Note, I am not talking about the 'First Sword of Braavos' from A Song of Ice and Fire. Nor am I talking about the 'First Sword of the Empire' from The Malazan books. The one I am thinking of would be earlier than both of those series.

So, what book is it?

[Dee]

not old enough, I don't think, but Joe Abercrombie has a First Sword series

[Rob]

You're right - those ones are a bit too recent. I would think that the one I am thinking of would be '90s or maybe even earlier.

[Joseph]

Might it be The Wizard Lord: Volume One of the Annals of the Chosen, The Ninth Talisman, or The Summer Palace by Lawrence Watt-Evans?

[Rob]

Don't think so. Haven't heard of them and they look too recent. Thanks though.

[ladymurmur]

The Reluctant Swordsman?

[Rob]

Thanks for the responses, ladymurmur and Three, but no, not them. I suspect that it was a moderately mainstream author. Eddings or Gemmell, someone like that.

[Rob]

I am fairly sure that the main thrust of the book is a fairly traditional 'group of various stereotypes embark upon quest to resolve some issue or other' sort of deal. The character I am thinking of is not one of the main group.

[Tab]

Rob, were there any other fantasy elements, like trolls, dragons, unicorns, etc?

[Ann aka Iftcan]

The problem with your memory of what the man was called Is that it's a fairly common way for writers to describe the ubiquitous character who is head of a castle squad/bodyguard in medieval/Dark Ages settings.

[Rob]

Ann aka Iftcan wrote: "The problem with your memory of what the man was called Is that it's a fairly common way for writers to describe the ubiquitous character who is head of a castle squad/bodyguard in medieval/Dark Ag..."

True as far as the guy's title goes but I am not sure that I recall many books where an entire country was set up to rank the entire complement of fighting men...

[Rob]

Tab wrote: "Rob, were there any other fantasy elements, like trolls, dragons, unicorns, etc?"

Quite possibly, but I couldn't definitively say one way or the other. I have read 1000's of books, as the cardboard boxes in my attic will testify, and I expect that it's up there somewhere. But I would like to avoid re-reading every one to find out which book had one particular scene in it...

[Rob]

Thinking about this, I reckon we're looking at the 80s or very early 90s for the book in question. I think I would have been reading things like 'Magician' by Raymond Feist, McCaffery's Pern books, Holdstock's 'Mythago Wood', Julian May's Pliocene books, the Thomas Covenant series and stuff like that.

[Rob]

bumpety bump

[Rob]

Last bump before I give up...

[Dee]

maybe The Blade Itself - it's the first book in The First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie - at the end of it, they were getting ready to head out on a quest on a ship

I know you said its not this, but your description keeps coming back to it

[Rob]

Dee wrote: "maybe The Blade Itself - it's the first book in The First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie - at the end of it, they were getting ready to head out on a quest on a ship

I know you said its not this, ..."

I read that not so long ago (quite good, as it happens) but the book I have in mind was a lot older than that. Thanks though.

[Tim]

Could this be something from Piers Anthony's Battle Circle trilogy? There were first swords and second swords etc. Also first club, first dagger, first star, etc.

Also the Gor series, Bosk is the 'First Sword' of Port Kar. I think every clan had a 'first sword'.

[Tim]

Oh actually ... now I think about it ... Erikson's Malazan series has a 'First sword' character - he is mentioned in several books, and features extensively in at least one of them.

[Rob]

Tim wrote: "Oh actually ... now I think about it ... Erikson's Malazan series has a 'First sword' character - he is mentioned in several books, and features extensively in at least one of them."

See first post: Nor am I talking about the 'First Sword of the Empire' from The Malazan books.

Sorry, but thanks for thinking about it.

[Tim]

Oh, whoops :)

So it's not Gor or Battle Circle either?

Is there any chance this could be a Forgotten Realms book?

[Ann aka Iftcan]

Rob--you haven't given this any where near long enough to give up on it yet. It sometimes takes years to ID a book. I had one that was ID'ed after 3 years of my bumping it up every month or 2

[Miira]

Sometimes this helps: http://www.literature-map.com Type in name of an author that writes in a similar genre and style and see who pops up.

[Rob]

Miira wrote: "Sometimes this helps: http://www.literature-map.com Type in name of an author that writes in a similar genre and style and see who pops up."

That may be my new favourite website...

[Rob]

I think the problem here is that I am only really remembering one scene out of an entire book and nothing from the rest of it. I am not even sure why it has piqued my interest. But apart from general impressions I can't dig any more relevant detail out of my memory.

He was discussed by the main characters (who are probably on some stereotypical quest) and they were told that

'He's from some other secretive, insular country. In that country the whole society is geared towards a hierarchy of swordsmen. He was right at the top of that hierarchy (second, third or fourth, something like that) which makes him unbelievably deadly. Somehow he fell out of favour and so has had to leave, which is unusual as most people from that place just stay within their boundaries and train to get higher up the list by challenging someone above them. No other country ever attacks them because they have all these super-deadly swordsmen wandering around.'

The guy is, as you'd expect, portrayed as sullen, taciturn, insular. I suspect that subsequently there is a demonstration of his prowess that involves him chopping some poor, unfortunate bad guy into little cubes.

I can't remember if he subsequently becomes a major character or if he drifts out of the narrative again.

[Rob]

Bumpety bump

[Conal]

This does not really match up with your hints other than (possibly) the swordsman. Marion Zimmer Bradley's brother wrote these.

The Lost Prince
King Chondos' Ride

[Rob]

bump bump bump

[Rob]

sha-bump

[Analee]

Sword-Dancer by Jennifer Roberson?

[Rob]

'fraid not. But thanks for thinking about it...

[Rob]

bumpa bumpa bumpa bump

[Ann aka Iftcan]

I thought that was Bump, bump, bumpity, bump Rob.

[Dalton]

Six of Swords?

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

The dude was ranked 6th, and he was in exile, and I don't think he was originally part of the main character's party. The writing was VERY flowery and hard to read for many if I remember correctly.

[Rob]

Interesting, and heading in the right direction conceptually, but no...

Thanks for thinking about it though.

[Michele]

I'm wondering if it could be one of the Robert Jordan Wheel of Time series, perhaps the first one, The Eye of the World. It's epic fantasy (fits your mention of group of people on a quest). One of the secondary character is named Lan Mandragoran and he has a sword marked with a heron on the blade; the heron-mark is a sign of being the best of the best as a swordsman in his home country, Malkier. He's not precisely in exile -- it's more that Malkier no longer exists. He has a couple of titles relating to swords, inluding "True Blade of Malkier" and "Bearer of the Sword of the Thousand Lakes."

[Rob]

Michele wrote: "I'm wondering if it could be one of the Robert Jordan Wheel of Time series, perhaps the first one, The Eye of the World. It's epic fantasy (fits your mention of group of people on a ..."

'Fraid not. I certainly read the book I am thinking of before the Wheel of Time polluted my consciousness with it's appalling treatment of male-female relationships and endless five-page descriptions of smoothing velvet.

Actually, maybe that's a bit harsh - the first book was ok, if a bit formulaic. Even the the second and third were passable. But then it descended into farce. Never was the importance of the role of 'book editor' highlighted so strongly...

[Michele]

Rob wrote: "...polluted my consciousness with it's appalling treatment of male-female relationships and endless five-page descriptions of smoothing velvet..."

*snicker* I have to admit that after Book V I just read the summaries on Wikipedia. I really liked the characters and the world he created, and I wanted to know what happened to them. But yeah, didn't have the patience to wade through the molasses-paced later books.

[Paul]

Rob wrote:
See first post: Nor am I talking about the 'First Sword of the Empire' from The Malazan books.

It actually sounds exactly like the Seguleh society from the Malazan books (neither the Imass nor human empires had numbered ranks below First Sword).

The Seguleh would fit the points you gave to a T: they number their warriors (and show this by the masks they wear), and in Memories of Ice, the Seguleh Third, Mok, has traveled from their island and is one of Lady Envy's party. It's very rare to see someone from his insular society, and any Seguleh would be an amazing warrior by any other society's standards.

[Rob]

Paul wrote: "Rob wrote:
See first post: Nor am I talking about the 'First Sword of the Empire' from The Malazan books.

It actually sounds exactly like the Seguleh society from the Malazan books..."

Oh. Now I am going to have to re-read the Malazan books...

I have been intending to for some time but still, it's a big job.

I would have sworn that these books were too recent. But maybe you're right.

[Rob]

OK. I have re-read the Malazan books. That was a job and a half, let me tell you. Fun, but took some application.

I think Paul is right and I was thinking of the Seguleh.