Gone with the Wind
discussion
If you were Melanie, what your feelings towards Scarlett would be?
date
newest »
newest »
I would act nice and all, because that's my character. But I would feel terrible inside, and probably cry myself to sleep because my husband is stupid enough to not realize he loves me until I'm on my deathbed, because of her. All in all, I'd accept her because she's Charlies widow.
Mariana wrote: "I would act nice and all, because that's my character. But I would feel terrible inside, and probably cry myself to sleep because my husband is stupid enough to not realize he loves me until I'm on..."Sigh, remember why Scarlett became Charles’s widow, that was also because of Ashley...
The loss of her brother Charles would be hard, but I don't think Melanie would blame Scarlett, because she supported the Confederate cause. I will admit I have a hard time separating Melanie from the actress that played her (Olivia de Havilland). That said, I would be so sure of my husband's steadfast love (and oh boy, Ashley really did, despite his occasional moments of lustful behavior) that I'd feel a little sorry for poor Scarlett, always chasing something she was never going to have.
Sandy wrote: "Mariana wrote: "I would act nice and all, because that's my character. But I would feel terrible inside, and probably cry myself to sleep because my husband is stupid enough to not realize he loves..."Yeah, but remember, we know that because we've read the book.... Poor Melanie had no idea.
Mariana wrote: "Sandy wrote: "Mariana wrote: "I would act nice and all, because that's my character. But I would feel terrible inside, and probably cry myself to sleep because my husband is stupid enough to not re..."I would ignore Scarlet. I would know that the wooden headed Ashley loved me and that Scarlet was just too wild for the likes of Ashley. Ashley is an intellectual and Scarlet sees only black and white. She would never understand his mind and thoughts. Besides Scarlet is keeping food on the table while Ashley does little or nothing. i thank i would shut up. lol
I think it would depend on whether it was "modern me" or "me transplanted to that time and raised in that society.""Modern me" would not put up with my husband flirting with and obviously lusting after other women - nor would I put up with other women chasing after my husband.
"Me transplanted to that time" would probably see what was going on and hate it, but smile politely and follow the actions of a "proper wife" of that time.
AM Pierre wrote: "I think it would depend on whether it was "modern me" or "me transplanted to that time and raised in that society.""Modern me" would not put up with my husband flirting with and obviously lusting..."
Very well said AM Pierre. Wish i had of said that. lol
AM Pierre wrote: "I think it would depend on whether it was "modern me" or "me transplanted to that time and raised in that society.""Modern me" would not put up with my husband flirting with and obviously lusting..."
Well said AM Pierre.
But on the other side, Scarlett saved her life and her only son's life.
I do not think i could be Melanie. she is very kind and loving and accepting of people. I would not be as tolerant as she is with Scarlett. actually Olivia DeHaviland was not as Nice as Melanie from what I heard.{and I know that is what the character Melanie is like nice and all that}
Lori wrote: "I do not think i could be Melanie. she is very kind and loving and accepting of people. I would not be as tolerant as she is with Scarlett. actually Olivia DeHaviland was not as Nice as Melanie fro..."Agree, me either, few people could be so tolerant as Melanie.
Well, Mitchell wanted to draw the line between "nice "Melly and "horrible" Scarlet. The truth is Scarlet would not be looked at as horrible in today's society. She would be looked at as ambitious. Melly would be looked at as doormat. lol.
I think Scarlett will always be the kind of woman everyone wants to be - gorgeous and such a draw to men. Flirty and saucy and always on her feet. Courageous and strong. The problem is she's self-centered and shallow.Melanie is often seen as a doormat, but she's really what a woman should be, isn't she? Strong and unassuming. Forgiving to a fault. Meek and dependable and quietly beautiful. The kind of woman you want as a friend or relative.
If I were Melanie, how would I view Scarlett? This really is a good question. I probably wouldn't be as good as Melanie was in the book. How could I tolerate what Scarlett did and how she treated me? How could I stand by a woman who kissed my husband in public and was the subject of gossip (which in those days could destroy a whole family)? This is such a hard question. Would I do it to protect my family, and keep my real feelings about Scarlett secret? Maybe in that time. Maybe in this time.
Melanie is nowhere near a doormat. Toward the end of the novel (not the movie) Scarlett comes to realize that Melanie has killed her with kindness. By refusing to play Scarlett's games, acting catty or mean the way women will to each other, Melanie had Ashley, a loving home (that Scarlett envies in Atlanta ... remember everyone flocks to Melanie's small home instead of Scarlett's grand home), a child she actually loves, and the admiration of everyone she knows. Scarlett has none of that, and doesn't realize Melanie got the best of her until right before Melanie is going to die. Again, the book, not the movie.I think Melanie was quite content, as I would be. Ashley may have looked at Scarlett, and even sort of kissed her twice, but he never strayed from Melanie. She won.
Hillary wrote: "Melanie is nowhere near a doormat. Toward the end of the novel (not the movie) Scarlett comes to realize that Melanie has killed her with kindness. By refusing to play Scarlett's games, acting ca..."What I cannot understand is, why Melanie asked Scarlett to look after Ashley before she died, what's more interesting is she said "and never let him know".
I'm also wondering if Ashley could survive without Scarlett's help.
good question! I'm thinking that Ashley can't survive without Scarlett and Melanie at the same time. Melanie was his guiding light, and Scarlett was his strength. He's going to have to turn little Beau over to Mammy to raise from the end of the book forward, I think.
Sorry, but I'd want to scratch her eyes out.
I think my comment was taken out of context. I don't see Melly as a doormat. However, many people in this society would. Melly is almost too good to be true even for that period. Mitchell went way overboard with Melly's nativity. Maybe it was Melly's strength and courage and a belief in herself that got her through but still--- How could she miss Scarlet's puppy dog eyes staring at Ashley. I don't know if Melly killed Scarlet with kindness on purpose. Mitchell would have us believe she is the next thing to a saint. If you look at Melly's character you will see that it couldn't exist in real life. Melly did nothing wrong ever!!! Is this possible? She saw no wrong--not in Rhett-Ashely. Melly did make a weak effort to kill union soldier but Mitchell made sure she never pulled it off. And not once did a part of me believe she could pull it off. With that said, i loved the book and the Melly character. A good writer can create a world where belief is suspended for a time. That's what a good book does.
Melly was a lady different time. In the contents of the book Melly knew Scarlet did not really love her husband. Scarlet just wanted what she could not have.
Hillary wrote: "Melanie is nowhere near a doormat. Toward the end of the novel (not the movie) Scarlett comes to realize that Melanie has killed her with kindness. By refusing to play Scarlett's games, acting ca..."She most certainly did!!
When I think of Malanie, I always remember something my mom said to me when I was maybe 7 or 8 watching the movie. The scene where Scarlett shows up at her house wearing the red dress. My mom explained the situation by telling me that Melanie would never let anyone say anything bad about her family, especially in her own home. That was why everyone was acting so weird, but Melanie was being overly nice. To be honest at that age I didn't really understand any of it, but that scene always stuck with me for some reason.Melanie didn't have the disposition to be a Scarlett, but she knew what she did have and used it to the best of her abilities. She was generous, kind, and loyal to a fault; if you did right by her she would make sure she ALWAYS did right by you, no matter what anyone else said.
I think Melanie is much more of a realist that people give her credit. Sure she only ever said nice things and acted like a lady was supposed to do, but what else was she supposed to do? She could have been buried under the weight of her situation or become bitter at how er life had turned out, but she chose to keep as much of a positive outlook as she could.
She probably had some idea that Ashley loved Scarlett and while I don't think she knew the depth to which Scarlett thought she loved Ashley, she was aware of it as well. But what she also knew was that Ashley would be faithful to her, if for no other reason than his honor. This is also the main reason I think she wanted to have his child so badly, even though she knew it might kill her she wanted to have a part of Ashley that Scarlett didn't.
She also knew Ashley and what kind of man he was. She knew if he was with some one like Scarlett he'd never be happy. He couldn't handle someone like her, she had too much spirit and saw the world for what it was, while he wanted the world to be as it used to be, or at the very least how he imagined it could have been.
I always felt like Melanie was what Scarlett wanted to be to please her mother, but could never become, even under the best of circumstances. Melanie is that part of Scarlett that she never had, like to sides of the same coin. Melanie had an inner strength that brought people to her and wanted to help her in any way they could. Scarlett had the fortitude and a outer strength that made people follow her.
Melissa wrote: "When I think of Malanie, I always remember something my mom said to me when I was maybe 7 or 8 watching the movie. The scene where Scarlett shows up at her house wearing the red dress. My mom expla..."Well said, Melissa. I wish I could be like Melanie, but I guess I wouldn't help being heartboken...
If i were Melanie i would have cried a little and then i would realize Ash is too impracticable to leave me for Scarlett. I'll not hate Scarlett for she helped me with the baby. And I also know Scarlett will regret her actions soon so i won't distrust her with Ash.
I'd punch her lights out, dump Ashley and go enjoy myself with other people....they are a toxic bunch.
Donna wrote: "The loss of her brother Charles would be hard, but I don't think Melanie would blame Scarlett, because she supported the Confederate cause. I will admit I have a hard time separating Melanie from t..."Scarlett wanted Ashley because he was the one man who she couldn't have. All the other unmarried gents desired her. So wanted the fruit that was out of reach. I don't feel sorry for her.
In Melanie's position, your feelings wouldn't matter. It's easy to say, in 2013, we would have ditched Ashley and slapped Scarlett, but remember that women were property back then. Melanie had little choice. Had she told Scarlett her real thoughts, in private many may have agreed, but outwardly she'd be treated like a mean woman. If she divorced, she'd be a tainted woman. Men didn't care much for divorced women in those days. Women didn't have the same luxury of being picky since men were the ones who made the money. Remember the scandal of Scarlett working at the mill, however superficially? If Melanie had left Ashley because Scarlett showed him for a cad, no one would have pitied her much since it was just plain accepted for men to sleep around. Who cared who fathered a whore's baby? But a married woman had no way to know who a father was if she did the same. Ashley could bed every whore in town (but no touching the unmarried ladies who weren't whores!) and no one would care.Remember it was a different time and place back then, one much tougher for women, and the higher up the social ladder you were, the more rules. If you were tossed down, those who could catch you usually would't want much to do with those who used to be their social betters.
Melanie was no "fool," though Scarlett thought she was for a very long time. I think that Melanie was fully aware of what was going on between Scarlett and Ashley. But I think she genuinely loved them both enough to not let it bother her. Maybe she ignored it, or maybe she knew that nothing would ever really come of it (and hell, she was right, wasn't she?). Melanie was really as good as she was portrayed, so good that even Rhett, who didn't really believe in goodness, saw it in her. I think she admired Scarlett genuinely, and really did love her like a sister, as she always claimed. I think she even knew that Scarlett never really loved her brother, though she'd never hurt her feelings by admitting it.
Lynsey wrote: "Melanie was no "fool," though Scarlett thought she was for a very long time. I think that Melanie was fully aware of what was going on between Scarlett and Ashley. But I think she genuinely loved t..."Lynsey, I agree 100%. Melanie was a sharp cookie, as they say. But she was as good on the inside as she portrayed to the world. I don't think I could be so understanding!
Kathy wrote: "Lynsey wrote: "Melanie was no "fool," though Scarlett thought she was for a very long time. I think that Melanie was fully aware of what was going on between Scarlett and Ashley. But I think she ge..."Yes, Melanie was almost unreal to me. :)
Lori wrote: "I do not think i could be Melanie. she is very kind and loving and accepting of people. I would not be as tolerant as she is with Scarlett. actually Olivia DeHaviland was not as Nice as Melanie fro..."Well considering she was big buddies with Bette Davis, I would say you are right. I don't see how she could be sweet & put up with Ms. Davis, unless she was just like Melanie.
If I were Melanie, of course I would love Scarlett and think of her as my dearest friend. I would be confident that Ashley loved me and that he only saw Scarlett as someone he had always been close to since childhood. She was not a fool, just a really sweet person who thought well of others. I don't think that she was blind to the passion Scarlett felt toward Ashley; she was quite astute and really a strong person. But she just had complete faith that Ashley would never love anyone else but her. And that proved to be the case, so looks like she was pretty smart after all.
It was simply that Ashley and Melanie were a fit. I think that Ashley was comfortable with Scarlett for short periods of time, was very aware of her draw and her beauty, but simply did not think it was that alluring on a long-term basis.
Of course, I would have ripped her eyes out. But that is just me.
Chapter XII."I never minunderstand Ashley," Melanie replied quietly, though her lips trembling. "I understand him perfectly. ..."
I think that was also a reason why Melanie was so sure about Ashley's love to her?
Remember, in the novel, Scarlett has a son by Charles. That is another reason for Melanie's devotion to Scarlett.
Melissa wrote: "When I think of Malanie, I always remember something my mom said to me when I was maybe 7 or 8 watching the movie. The scene where Scarlett shows up at her house wearing the red dress. My mom expla..."I really like your comments. One must remember that Melly was considered the norm in those days. Politeness and gallantry were supposedly what made up the ever so gracious South--nevermind that the slave labor was the real staple of the south,and when the slaves were freed the south fell never to rise again--well thus far. Scarlet and Rhett were the outcasts so to speak. Melly and Ashley were representative to the old south while Rhett and Scarlet represented the new more modern world--the reconstruction if you will. This is all a reader needs to understand about the book and why the characters were portrayed as they were. The Southern society could not accept neither Scarlet or Rhett because they were symbols of the new south and freedom. Ashley wanted to wallow in the ways of the old south and even though he said he would have freed the slaves had the war not done so. Truth is he wanted the slaves because they represented the old ways. You cannot have one without the other. Not that Ashley was unkind, just lazy and romantic. Melly thought the same. Although she was kind to the slaves she still dreamed of simpler times.
Sandi wrote: "Melissa wrote: "When I think of Malanie, I always remember something my mom said to me when I was maybe 7 or 8 watching the movie. The scene where Scarlett shows up at her house wearing the red dre..."Thanks for the wonderful comments.
I like Melissa’s:
Melanie had an inner strength that brought people to her and wanted to help her in any way they could. Scarlett had the fortitude and a outer strength that made people follow her.
And Sandi’s:
Melly and Ashley were representative to the old south while Rhett and Scarlet represented the new more modern world--the reconstruction if you will.
Now one question pops up on my mind, since Rhett and Scarlett represented the new modern world, why did they depart eventually? Does that mean, Rhett was the real new modern world, while Scarlett was still a bit nostalgic, for she loved Ashley.
If I were Rhett I would have thought about Scarlet and eventually come back. Deep down he still loved Scarlet. If a man loves a woman no matter what he doesn't like he will return. That is the way many of us think.
How long is a man expected to stay when he feels there are 3 people in the relationship? She didn't realize until he left how much she truly loved him. Maybe it was a little too late.
Melanie is just too good to be true! She had to have known that Ashley and Scarlett had an attraction for each other. She could deal with it knowing that Ashley would marry her, being a gentleman of character and because the Wilkes always married their cousins. She was just able to take the higher road- she knew what Scarlett was scheming but maybe knew it would never work out so didn't need to feel overly jealous about it? She is such a contrast to Scarlett, morally, physically, intellectually. Melanie is the type of woman I would strive to emulate- charitable to all even if they don't deserve it very much!
AM Pierre wrote: "I think it would depend on whether it was "modern me" or "me transplanted to that time and raised in that society.""Modern me" would not put up with my husband flirting with and obviously lusting..."
Very good point indeed.
i dont think Mitchell intended to draw a distinction between "nice" Melly and "nasty" Scarlett, but a distinction between social convention and reality. they are both completely nasty in different ways. Scarlett has no ethical opinion on slavery, all she cares about is getting what she wants. but Melanie deeply believes that slavery is right. and so does Ashley. do you really think Mitchell doesnt know what it means that Melanie and Ashley both believe in slavery???
I think theres a difference between believing in slavery and feeling like they were part of the family. Plus, Ashley actually says that he didn't believe in slavery and that he had every intention of freeing his slaves upon his return from the war...whatever the outcome.
I don't think Ashley would have freed the slaves. Mitchell threw this in there without thinking. When she did this she contradicted everything that is known about Ashley Wilkes. I recently re-read the novel and my beliefs reaffirmed that Ashley and Melanie were definitely part of the old south. The lazy, hazy summer days and the humming slaves as they came out of the cotton fields were a large part of Ashley's contented little world. He loved the fact that he could dream in leisure never having to touch a stalk of cotton or a hoe to the land. Why she said he would have freed them anyway boggled my brain. If he had freed them he would have had to work the cotton and make up for all that slave labor. Ashley fought the war in favor of keeping the Old South as it was--slaves and all. Rhett Butler on the other hand was only concerned with making money--Scarlet too. At least Scarlet was willing to work for hers. I could say so much more. lol
I disagree, Sandy, I believe 100% what Ashley said. I believe Ashley would have freed his slaves. I also believe that a lot of them would've wanted to stay on and he would've hired them to work the land. Yes, I do agree that Ashley missed the days where he could read and dream in leisure, but not at anyone's expense. This is my 3rd re-read and this is how I saw this issue.
Kathy, Ashley fought the Civil War for what? He fought to preserve the ways of the old South.Slavery built up the industry. I am saying that Mitchell was ambivalent. On one hand, she wanted us to see Ashley and Melly as wonderful, smart, intelligent people. But on the other they were slave owners. Ashley. Does this make them bad? Bad has a million meanings. I believe they were products of time. place, and circumstance. I suppose slavery didn't seem wrong to most of the southerners. If they truly thought it was wrong wouldn't have made every plantation owner a monster. Rhett described Ashley as wooden headed. I think he was. He didn't have a work ethic and depended on slavery as a means of having his perfect world. Scarlet saw Ashley as a romantic figure and ignored their lack of common ground. It wasn't until in the end when she saw him mulling over an un mated sock that she realized that she had no use for him at all. All and all, the book is a wonderful piece of historic literature.
Sandi, I hear what you are saying and most Southerner's did fight to maintain their way of life. Ashley didn't want to go to war, but went because it was expected of him. I do believe that he would have gladly paid his "slaves" to stay on as workers. There obviously would be no way the Wilke's could survive without them. I could be dead wrong, and perhaps if Mitchell could see my argument, she would say "Where did you get that from?", but that's my impression of Ashley on this subject. Maybe I'm giving him way too much credit, that's entirely possible.
Melanie is far more gracious than I could ever hope to be. I would have given Scarlet a beat down. :)
How would I feel towards Scarlet if I were Melanie? Well if I were Melanie I would see through Scarlet and would refuse to play her games. I would still be polite to her (as required for the times) but I would call her out on it. I wouldn't let Scarlet pretend with me.But Melanie didn't see Scarlet. Or we could claim she did, because deep down would Scarlet have acted on what she thought she felt? I don't really know. Maybe Melanie saw through the superficial Scarlet and saw what she was deep down, saw through her fears and insecurities and all those feelings crowding out the truth of Scarlet's heart.
I'm not certain though that Melanie saw Scarlet's feelings for Ashley I also don't believe Melanie saw Ashley's lust for Scarlet. Nothing beyond any normal male appreciation for a vibrant pretty woman anyways. Melanie trusted Ashley and she knew he loved her.
I don't believe Ashley loved Scarlet. I think people are getting confused with his lust. It's been a while since I've read the book but even Scarlet realizes this at the end when she's comforting Ashley after Melanie dies.
I believe that too, Kathy. I guess the Old South had a criteria for what a gentleman should be. I understand that. Ashley was a model for the Old South and its manners and chivalry. I blame Mitchell for her ambivalence concerning what she wanted Ashley to be. Ashley's father is described as being a great deal like Ashley and he chose to be a slave-owner. When Ashley stands in the ruins of reconstruction and dreams of his easy life on the plantation one has to define what the easy life gone consisted of. Maybe it is me who is making too much out of the meaning. I think you are right Kathy. I am just saying that Mitchel doesn't push the violence of the salve trade and how many masters were mean to African Americans. Sure they were verbally abusive( Scarlet toward Prissy) Scarlet toward Pork and Mammy) But their were no real whip slashes. Mitchell would have us believe that the slaves were lazy, nosy and many actually ran their owners telling them what they should and should not do. ( Uncle Peter and Pitty) Mammy and Scarlet) Pork and Gerald) Much can be made of the whole book i suppose. No matter, i love the book.Thanks for your insight.
Sandi, I agree. Mitchell definitely gave us the more "positive" look at slavery. (If that is the word to use.) We don't see the beatings and the cruelty in this book. I do believe that Mammy, Pork, Big Sam and others were cared for. That doesn't mean they were treated the same as family, but there was genuine concern and feelings for them. But obviously that isn't the norm.I must say, you have to love a book that can cause such great discussions! :)
lol. You are right. I have a new thread because of our discussion. It concerns Rhett and Ashley. Happy Holidays !
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
Would you be so sure about Ashley’s love to yourself? Would you be afraid that Ashley could elope with Scarlett? Would you be jealous when Ashley and Scarlett were together?
Why did Melanie ask Scarlett to look after Ashley but not to let him know?