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Divergent
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Roth, Veronica; Divergent (Divergent #1) "Relaxed Buddy Read" Start Date August 3 2013
Karen wrote: "Hi all - yes I am in Fiji and have intermittent Internet access! I am just about to start chapter 19.I thought Delirium because of the fence and also the idea that it is personality (or an aspect ..."
WOOOO HOOOO!!! Hope you are having fun in Fiji!!!
Questions and comments for Chapters 13 - 25 (To stimulate discussion)1) Do you think it was wise of Tris to step in for Al with the knife throwing? I'm surprised it was allowed. What did you think of Four nicking her ear?
2) Were you surprised no one was reprimanded for what happened to Edward? I would have thought they'd monitor everyone. Plus, you'd think they'd have an idea who attacked him.
3) So do you think Tris is displaying leadership skills? She seems to get along with everyone--both transfers and those born into Dauntless. So is a majority of the factionless sector comprised of Dauntless rejects? That's kind of sad since it seemed like half of the initiates were born into it.
4) So were you as surprised as I was to discover Tris' mom was once part of Dauntless? I wonder what happened that she didn't chose it?
5) So could Uriah be yet another person attracted to Tris? Perhaps part of a second triangle?
6) What did you think of the fear simulation. That would be totally creepy. I don't even want to know what my biggest fears would be. So these are tests to determine what your afraid of or do they already know? I wonder how many they test out on each individual?
7) So we finally get a little back story about what happened to change Dauntless. 6 years ago Max took over the leadership of training the Dauntless. The training made people more vicious. I wonder how the current training compares to the past? Just how was it different was it?
8) I like Four. :)
9) So we finally know part of what makes Divergents different. They can tell when they're in a simulation and manipulate them, possibly shut them down? It would appear the manipulation is a direct result of knowing they're in a simulation. That would make them hard to test, but I don't see how that could make them dangerous.
10) So we now know Tori's brother was Divergent and was killed because of it. Yikes! I wish we knew more.
11) So Eric is in charge of finding Divergents. I wonder who he was talking to?
12) So I can't believe Will could, ironically, be manipulated by Peter. Do you think that is why Al helped participate in kidnapping Tris? Do you think he had something to do with what happened to Edward? Do you think they would have killed her or was it just to scare her?
13) What did you make of Al's death and Eric's toast to him. Strange or what? It brought to mind the Japanese kamikaze fighters in WWII.
14) Were you surprised what faction Four was originally from and that the gossip about his father were true? It doesn't seem like someone like that should be in Abnegation or in a position of power.
Comments chapters 13-24Oooooooooooooh this is getting good. I'm getting sucked into this book further and further. Things are happening...but I'm not going to say. I don't know how far along in the book you are and I don't want to give anything away. What I can say is the second stage of training is brutal!!!!!!!!!!!!!Let's say another initiate bites the dust hmmm chasm (I'm a bit harsh now, but there is a reason for that).
And things are developing...still not going to give anything away.
Tris is getting accepted into the Dauntless society more and more and she's getting friends. And this girl is C.R.A.Z.Y.
I don't like the Dauntless society and it seems that a power switch of few years before and a resulting change in values is to blame. They were very diferent before this.
@ ♥Robin ♥ I'm still wondering why the gate is locked from the outside! I hope we get the answer in this book otherwise I'll see myself forced to read the second book. Oh horror!
Lisarenee wrote: "Questions and comments for Chapters 13 - 25 (To stimulate discussion)1) Do you think it was wise of Tris to step in for Al with the knife throwing? I'm surprised it was allowed. What did you thin..."
You made questions..... and I'm allowed to read one more chapter yeah!!!!!!!!!!
Going to read chapter 25 than get right back to answer questions.
Questions and comments for Chapters 13 - 25 (To stimulate discussion)
1) Do you think it was wise of Tris to step in for Al with the knife throwing? I'm surprised it was allowed. What did you think of Four nicking her ear?
If it was wise, maybe not. But it was a good show of character. I think Four nicked her ear to prove a point.
2) Were you surprised no one was reprimanded for what happened to Edward? I would have thought they'd monitor everyone. Plus, you'd think they'd have an idea who attacked him.
Yes I was, surprised. This whole scene made me dislike the Dauntless even more. They don’t seem to care about their own people and fair play does not exist in their vocabulary.
3) So do you think Tris is displaying leadership skills? She seems to get along with everyone--both transfers and those born into Dauntless. So is a majority of the factionless sector comprised of Dauntless rejects? That's kind of sad since it seemed like half of the initiates were born into it.
I think she definitely shows leadership skills and the Dauntless leaders are going to resent her for it. I’m not sure she is going to make it to the end of the initiation.
It seems that a majority of the factionless is Dauntless, at least a resent part of the factionless is. It also explains why people are so afraid of the factionless because they have grown up with aggression.
4) So were you as surprised as I was to discover Tris' mom was once part of Dauntless? I wonder what happened that she didn't chose it?
Yes I was, I did think she would show up for family day though. It felt to me during the choosing ceremony she was incouraging Tris to cange factions, to follow her heart. I think that maybe she fell in love with Tris’ father in school and that’s why she choose Abnagation.
5) So could Uriah be yet another person attracted to Tris? Perhaps part of a second triangle?
Maybe, but I get more of a brotherly vibe from him. I think she will get more trouble from Lynn though, she definitely has feelings for Four I think.
6) What did you think of the fear simulation. That would be totally creepy. I don't even want to know what my biggest fears would be. So these are tests to determine what your afraid of or do they already know? I wonder how many they test out on each individual?
I think they are trying out different fears during the simulations and based on what happens and how an initiate performs they select new fears. I don’t want to know my biggest fear. These simulations are to train the initiates to face their fears and not to be blocked by them. The number of fears probably depends on the person that is tested.
7) So we finally get a little back story about what happened to change Dauntless. 6 years ago Max took over the leadership of training the Dauntless. The training made people more vicious. I wonder how the current training compares to the past? Just how was it different was it?
I think that before the change the focus was more on skill development and teamwork and how to handle certain situations with a clear head and heart. Now they focus on the individual, you have to be fearless, don’t think, follow the rules and definitely don’t think about what you are doing.
8) I like Four. :)
Me too.
9) So we finally know part of what makes Divergents different. They can tell when they're in a simulation and manipulate them, possibly shut them down? It would appear the manipulation is a direct result of knowing they're in a simulation. That would make them hard to test, but I don't see how that could make them dangerous.
It makes them dangerous, because they can think for themselves and they have trades of every faction making them ideal leaders. The leaders of all factions are afraid of losing their powerbase if they let Divergents live. I think that the simulations are only a tool to screen for divergents.
10) So we now know Tori's brother was Divergent and was killed because of it. Yikes! I wish we knew more.
Yes me too.
11) So Eric is in charge of finding Divergents. I wonder who he was talking to?
I’m wondering too, Tris did say she sounded familiar.
12) So I can't believe Will could, ironically, be manipulated by Peter. Do you think that is why Al helped participate in kidnapping Tris? Do you think he had something to do with what happened to Edward? Do you think they would have killed her or was it just to scare her?
I think they would have killed her if Four didn’t happen along. I don’t think Al was manipulated by Peter, I think Al was afraid of losing his place and be factionless. And he is afraid to lose face to his parents. I got the feeling he didn’t want to be Dauntless and only chose it because his parents wanted him to. Peter definitely had something to do with what happened to Edward.
13) What did you make of Al's death and Eric's toast to him. Strange or what? It brought to mind the Japanese kamikaze fighters in WWII.
Not kamikaze fighters, more to rally people to don’t think but act. I have to say I really do not like Eric he is the typical mindless follower.
14) Were you surprised what faction Four was originally from and that the gossip about his father were true? It doesn't seem like someone like that should be in Abnegation or in a position of power.
No I wasn’t. I suspected it from the start, also the abuse. I think that someone like Marcus should not be the leader, but it is visible in all the factions. They seemed to have strayed very far from what was intended when the factions were created at first. In my opinion it is never a good idea to separate people based on character.
I've finished the book today, I will comment when everyone is finished.
For anyone that's interested and has already read the knife throwing scene (question #1), there is a short story about it from Four's perspective. Free Four: Tobias Tells the Story. I found it really interesting to see it told from another viewpoint. 
So there was so much happening in this last section.Comments and Questions for chapter 26 - end (Again just to stimulate discussion, you can do your own thing and not feel bad. Just put a spoiler tag letting us know you've got comments about the end)
15) I so loved this book I want to immediately start then next one. Anyone want in on a buddy read for Insurgent?
16) So at the back of my book the author explains the names she used for the different factions are real, but rarely used words that she felt sounded cool enough to use. I thought the was rather neat.
17) Wow! The Erudites infiltrating the Dauntless to take control of their members through the simulation serum. That was pretty sneaky and scary. I liked it. Did you suspect the serum would play such a significant role in this?
18) So it would appear the serum was the true key as to why the Divergents were eliminated. It sounded like the simulation had been going on for years. Tris' mom went through the tests too. They must have taken a long time to set this plan in place.
19) Did you think Tris took too big a risk to see her brother? Did you like the explanation of why Tris ran? I'm guessing this is why Four was included in her fear test. I thought that was interesting.
20) There was quite a bit of killing going on in this one. I was sad both of Tris' parents were killed along with Will.
21) Did you like the ending? What was your overall thoughts on the book?
22) What was your favorite quote and/or part of the book?
Oh Lisarenee, I only just finished up to chapter 25 last night for the last questions :D Kristie, thank you so much for that link. I think that anything that gives us more Four is a good thing. I find him a very interesting character.
Meanwhile, I'll be over here still going O.o o.O about everything to do with Al!
Mod
I will contribute more once I'm home and can type properly
You're welcome. I like Four too. :)
O.K. I am at the parent visiting day and I think Four is the son of that one guy that Beatrice's father works with whose son chose a different faction and I think Beatrice's mother was born Dauntless and I am thinking OMG what happened to Al - can't be good - I felt sad for his mother. And I hope Beatrice's brother joined the Erudite with some sort of master plan since his faction of birth is so at odds with his new faction. Maybe he needed to get inside and can effect change that way - like a spy.
Oh my god, Sarah, I had completely forgotten about the man Tris' dad works with. I need to go home and finish this book right now to see if you are right!
Wow!!! You all flew through this book. I finished Chapter 15 last night which was about visiting day :) I am still liking the book but it seems to have slowed down quite a bit :( It seems to be getting a little draggy and not holding my attention quite as well as it was. I hope to get to chapter 25 tonight so I can get the first set of questions done LOL
@ Sarah--I was kind of thinking the same thing about Four. I wonder if that is why he is drawn to Tris?????
Imke wrote: "Comments chapters 13-24Oooooooooooooh this is getting good. I'm getting sucked into this book further and further. Things are happening...but I'm not going to say. I don't know how far along in t..."
I'm still wondering about this gate deal LOL
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Erin wrote: "I'm trying to navigate without bumping into spoilers, since I'm only on chapter 2. Haven't had time to fully dive in yet but I will have an update soon!"Most of us put up where we are when commenting so hopefully that helps.
Imke said, "I’d love to do a buddy read for Insurgent and maybe after that, one for Allegiant which will be released 22nd of October. But I think someone nominated Insurgent for YA-BOM for October." If it wins for BOM we can try to schedule it for the first one to read in October. Since there's no guarantee it will win, we could schedule it for late September moving it to October BOM slot if it wins.
Lisarenee wrote: "Imke said, "I’d love to do a buddy read for Insurgent and maybe after that, one for Allegiant which will be released 22nd of October. But I think someone nominated Insurgent for YA-BOM for October...."Hi guys! That was my nomination. If you'd prefer to do a buddy read in September, I can just pull the nomination out. I completely understand not wanting to wait. I suggested it for October just to get it out there before Allegiant is released.
Kristie wrote: "Lisarenee wrote: "Imke said, "I’d love to do a buddy read for Insurgent and maybe after that, one for Allegiant which will be released 22nd of October. But I think someone nominated Insurgent for Y..."Nope, it's fine. It would be nice if more people participated. (before I put the would in the sentence I was starting to sound like a pirate. lol)
Ok. If you change your mind, just let me know. I really don't mind. I can always come up with another nomination. :) I'm planning to read Insurgent either way.
Kristie wrote: "Ok. If you change your mind, just let me know. I really don't mind. I can always come up with another nomination. :) I'm planning to read Insurgent either way."Same here. We should know the outcome by the end of August
I'm completely ok with Insurgence being in October. I was really happy to open this thread and see it here. I think I need that much time to let Divergent fully filter through.Well, that was an amazing read! Just finished the book last night and, for the sake of those people who aren't finished, I'll just say: I remember someone else saying how awesome it was when Four told Tris his feelings and hooked those feelings on her bravery and courage rather than her looks. I thought that was amazing when I got up to it. :D
I've also put up my review ;)
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I do not love the writing of this book - very basic if you ask me - I guess I prefer those flowery writers - but half way through and I was thinking the same thing - initiation, initiation. How much more initiation? Let's move forward already.
I agree. The writing of the book was very basic. One of the main places I think this book fell down was in the lack of description of the world.Does anyone else have a clear feeling for the world outside of the ferris wheel that Tris and Four climbed up, or the building that the Dauntless jump from the train onto?
I certainly didn't, which is strange for a dystopian novel.
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I went to BEA and bought tickets for the YA/Children's author breakfast and one of the speakers was none other than Ms.Roth. I just searched Youtube and found the speech. I'll post it at the top of the group in a few. I really loved it. It talks how writing the book made her realize she had a lot to learn.
I posted the speech, check it out. :)
I'm curious how her second book will compare to this one.
Thanks for posting that Lisarenee!
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Sarah - I just thought of an author you would enjoy (I think). Have you ever read Tim Winton? I would recommend his book Cloud Street
Lisareene, could I get a link for the youtube talk? I can't seem to find it.Karen, I haven't read Tim Winton before, but I've wanted to. Whats the thing that made you recommend this particular novel?
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I loved the depth of his descriptions and characters. He is a unique writer who never uses clichéd similes, verbs or adjectives.
I just googled this passage as an example:
'Just near the crest of the hill where the sun is ducking down, the old flatbed Chev gives up the fight and stalls quiet. Out on the tray the kids groan like an opera. All around, the bush has gone the colour of a cold roast ...Birds scuffle out of
sight. There's no wind, though the Chev gives out a steamy fart.'
When Sarah said she likes flowery language it reminded me of this book :)
Yes, I will check this out. I already think what you wrote sounds gorgeous:) Now I will look it up on Goodreads and add it to my the list.
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Ha ha. Apparently it's already on my tbr list. I thought the title sounded familiar.
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Sarah wrote: "Ha ha. Apparently it's already on my tbr list. I thought the title sounded familiar."Ha! I love it when that happens. I have more than 200 titles on my to-be-read list, so it happens quite a bit for me.
My list is now greater than 500 and keeps growing. That is gonna take me about 7 years I would say.
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Yeah, it totally is, until you start adding more ;)
My list just keeps growing. Unfortunately, I can add books a lot faster than I can read them. ;)
Haha, especially with this site. More books are just a click away.
Spoilers - be warned. We definitely start to move forward but then it was so sudden - the Dauntless initiates graduate and are gonna get to choose a vocation but that very night BOOM, they wake up as controlled robotic soldiers waging an attack on all the Abnegation. It was kind of a bizarre transition. So much happened to discuss but I kept on reading. I was so happy to have Tris saved by her mother. Awesome - but BAM. Then she died. Then Will and her father too. Casualties of war. It is actually good that Tris chose Dauntless and got her training so she was better able to fight back.
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The ending was weird too. I literally turned the page to read on and it said "Aknowledgements". I was like "Oh, was that the last page? O.K. Whatever." Even a series can have a decent conclusion at the end of the book. I mean come on. I want to know how this was voted the number one book of the year by Goodreads? But then again Fifty Shades of Gray won one of the categories. The people's vote I guess.
Nothing But Reading Challenges
Books mentioned in this topic
Divergent (other topics)Divergent (other topics)
Insurgent (other topics)
Free Four: Tobias Tells the Divergent Knife-Throwing Scene (other topics)
Divergent (other topics)
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Dauntless is kind of creepy. It sounds really Goth. I don't particularly care for this one. I like Erudite because of the books,reading and knowledge but the Power/Control issues is a turn off. I don't think I would fit into any one faction, LOL I would be like Beatrice and be Divergent :)
@Imke
I was a little concerned with the living arrangements and the fence. I really want to know what is outside that fence and why it is locked.
@ Lisarenee
Dauntless is a strange lot of individuals. I think the reason they are security is because they don't trust anyone,they are courageous and like Sarah said they seem like soldiers. LOL I saw the faction quiz in the back of my book too but just didn't take the time for it but I will eventually :)
@ Nicole
I think you are right about the meaning of Divergent. LOL I don't think anyone would completely be one faction or another.