Christian Goodreaders discussion
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Common reads
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Wow, that is a decisive result. I'd better rustle up a copy.
So how does a common read work here at Goodreads? Do we try to synchronise our reading pace, one chapter a day or similar, or do we just read at our own pace, commenting as we see fit?
I'll leave the actual answer to Werner but it's generally more "laid back". People read and comment, spoilers are mostly discussed under spoiler tage for fiction. For this book I'd assume we discuss whet we see in it openly.
Nathan, what Mike said is accurate. We just read at our pace, and comment as we see fit; in a group this large, it's impossible to synchronize our reading, and everyone has different schedules and reading speeds, etc. anyway. And if someone can't start right on Nov. 1, we have all month. Yes, for fiction we use spoiler tags as needed, but with nonfiction there's no plot and denouement to "spoil," so that won't be a concern here. (Of course, participation is strictly voluntary!)
By the way Werner, are you going to open a specific thread for the book or do we just go on here?
I'll start a specific thread for the book, Mike (unless somebody beats me to it :-) ). I'd prefer to keep this thread just as a forum where we can brainstorm together about what to read.
Cool, just wondered. I've read the book...multiple times, LOL.
From what I've picked up about the book just in the act of buying a copy, this is a book that rewards periodic revisits as one progresses through life. Mike (the Paladin), how old are you? Can you confirm?
I'm 62. Yes this is a book I feel like I get something new from each time I read it. There are a few of C.S.Lewis' books I feel that way about.
Thanks! That carries weight, coming from a mature believer.
Hi, I was just wondering if this is still on going? x
We do this once a year. The actual discussion is on another thread.
Yes, Evey, as Banner said, we've been doing an annual common read for the last couple of years. The first one was in September of 2013, but last year we moved it to November. This thread is just where we brainstorm together about what books to read. Just now, I created a "Common reads" folder for the actual discussion threads on the individual books, to make those easier to find. (Right now, it only has two threads in it; but it'll grow, if we continue to do this.)If there's interest in doing another read this November, we'll begin brainstorming seriously in September (though of course suggestions are welcome all through the year!). My original idea for the reads was to pick strictly nonfiction books that might have a major, revolutionary impact on our current church life and thought. But so far, we've voted for books that are "tamer," in that respect, and I've come to think that less controversial reads probably better represent the kind of group experience most members want and expect. In that light, I'd be willing to open the floor up to any titles people might want to propose, even including fiction.
Werner, et al., tamer books also have the advantage of not triggering arguments among ourselves. :-)
Ron wrote: ..."tamer books also have the advantage of not triggering arguments among ourselves." Yes, that's a big part of what I meant by "the kind of group experience most members want and expect." Most Goodreaders (Christian or non-Christian) approach the site mainly in search of stress-free entertainment and recreation, and factual information about books --not as a forum for debate over serious issues in which we have an emotional investment. That's a fair position that I've come to think should be respected.That said, I think any respect-worthy reality check would reveal that the universal church today is very far from anything resembling a New Testament model of healthy normality, and that our efforts to influence the world around us for Christ suffer seriously as a result. Changing that state of affairs means, by definition, changing ideas and behavior, and that isn't apt to be effected without discussion. Among regenerate people who love each other and desire that God's will be done above all else, that kind of serious discussion doesn't have to be --and shouldn't be-- acrimonious; but the continuing temptations of our sinful natures create the possibility of acrimony. That shouldn't be a stifling threat that precludes discussion, though. The debate in the first century church over whether Gentiles could join without being circumcised had the same potential to create heated arguments, and sometimes did --but it was still a debate the church needed to have.
This doesn't mean, of course, that a Goodreads group is where these discussions have to take place. they should, ideally, be taking place in our churches. But in too many cases, that isn't happening, and there are institutional roadblocks that keep it from happening.
You've hit on something that I suppose needs to be looked at. Discussions among Christians should never get (to use Werner's word choice) acrimonious. Sadly we are human and it seems some of us can't manage that.In Romans (14:1) Paul advised we avoid doubtful disputations. When in a discussion if someone gets angry or worse abusive I tend to simply advise we "agree to disagree" and disengage. Sadly sometimes it's all we can do as some can't simply discuss a disagreement.
So...long comment short (if it's not too late) we need to go ahead and have the discussions. Those who wish to participate can. Hopefully we can encourage everyone to participate civilly.
I agree with both: That the church needs to examine itself in light of what it professes, and that Goodreads.com may not be the best forum.Raising our awareness of good Christian literature helps equip us for engaging the world we live in.
A concern I have had (it maybe unwarranted ) is discussing some issues in an open forum such as this; is how things could be misunderstood by non Christians that might happen by and read the discussion. I don't mean to imply that we have things to hide, but that certain presuppositions may not be understood by the casual reading of a non believer. Do other feel this is a valid concern or am I just being paranoid?
Well, if we take that too deeply to heart we would never be able to discuss anything anywhere except in a totally closed forum. That's something we need to avoid.It's true that many people assume the worst about Christians. I would make it a point to invite those who wonder if certain stands mean what they think they do.
It's all we can really do. This is a forum where Christians of and from all "denominations" can discuss their disagreements.
We will not settle the differences among us but I think we may minimize them. Among Christians there are disagreements that are reasons for us to worship in a different way one from another. That said I think most will hold to the basic set of beliefs that make us Christian and therefor not "dismiss" each other to separation from God because we understand scripture.
By the same token maybe if they will simply engage and ask we give "some" unbelievers a more accurate view of Christianity.
There's a quote from Steve Brown (Key Life) he has said that when we come before God He'll say, "I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is that you're all wrong. The good news is, it's okay."
Thank you Mike. I often cringe at some of the comments I hear / read when some of these social issues are discussed and I wonder how truth can be clear. But as you say the answer is not to withdraw but to engage. That's something that sounds right but goes against my nature.
If people would just listen instead of simply assuming the worst. of course that won't happen with many if not most. Still some will hopefully, as you say engage.
You might ask Werner how that worked out for us in "discussing" a book with a very liberal friend here on Goodreads.
Not sure I remember what you're referring to. Illuminate Werner or Ron?
It started as a discussion of the merits--or lack thereof of a book--and turned into ad hominem aspersions being cast on the character of all who disagreed with the accuser. I defer to Werner for discussing it further. (It was not among this group of people; but it was on Goodreads.com.)
Mike, I was thinking of that incident while I was reading some of these comments. A non-Christian Goodreads friend gave a New Atheist tract a glowing review and four stars, and basically stated in several groups that no Christian would dare to read it. (In fact, quite a few have, and have reviewed it.) Rather than attack his review, I read and reviewed it myself. He decided to attack my review in a series of comments, to which I replied as patiently and cogently as I could. When I felt he was becoming too personally insulting (and this was not before he'd been so rude to two other people, including Ron, that they stopped commenting on the thread), I deleted one of his comments; that really antagonized him, and led to a falling out, more on his part than on mine.That illustrates the fact that civil discussion isn't possible with intolerant fanatics (of whatever stripe), and that you can't rationally argue people out of positions they don't hold on a rational basis in the first place. But it also illustrates the fact that intolerant fanatics aren't numerous here on Goodreads. I've never gotten any other invidious comments on that review, nor on my numerous reviews of Christian books. I've gotten a few abusive comments from Islamists on my review of the Koran --but I've also had several friendly and civil discussions with Moslems, commenting on the review or in other contexts.
Banner wrote: "Do others feel this is a valid concern or am I just being paranoid?" No, Banner, you're not being paranoid! Membership in our group is limited to professing Christians, but anybody of any faith, or no faith, can browse the discussion threads. That doesn't mean, as Mike noted, that we should never discuss anything outside of a closed forum. But in all our comments anywhere, we should always be careful to express ourselves in a way that demonstrates Christian love, and that takes into account the way others might understand (or misunderstand) our words. That's especially true when we're commenting in a public, online venue.Though I've been at work until evening, I've been following the discussion on this thread since my comment early this morning (which was actually written before my shift started; but I didn't get a chance to click "post" for awhile :-) ) Everyone has valid points that are worth considering. Ron, you're right that "Raising our awareness of good Christian literature helps equip us for engaging the world we live in." (And that's true for any good literature, whether it's specifically Christian or not.) Indeed, that could be said to be a foundational principle for our group! I've valued all of the comments made so far. (I actually didn't expect to strike such a vein of interest!)
We agree that the Christian community benefits from serious discussion of how to live out our calling in this world, even if it involves self-examination and fresh thinking. And we agree that there's no place for anger and hostility in that kind of discussion. (We can also agree, I think, that some issues aren't worth debating over.) The question is, is this group the right forum for discussion of the issues that ARE worthwhile, but controversial?
Personally, my conclusion, for what it's worth (and Banner, you can weigh in here, too!) is that we as a group should be open to any topic members want to post about, and that we shouldn't censor books suggested for a common read from the poll just because they're controversial. But that kind of discussion and suggestion needs to arise spontaneously from the group, not to be engineered by a moderator. I've come to see my role as being to ensure that discussion is civil and constructive (and we've never had any that hasn't been!), rather than to introduce controversy from the top down. In the long run, I think the former approach is more likely to be productive. (Does that make sense?)
I had an experience much like that in another group with a professing atheist. He also got very abusive when his assumption that his opinions were anything short of absolute truth were challenged. It happens. I even had a stalker for a while. he showed up and attacked almost anywhere I posted, including all my reviews. he was finally blocked from Good reads...though not because of anything I did or said.All we can do is attempt to be civil ourselves.
My experience on Goodreads has been very positive. Even reading other discussions in which I have not participated; have been a positive experience. Several of the atheist here have been extremely kind spirited in discussions. I had an extremely negative experience on Amazon a couple of years back. This really bothered me for awhile and it has made me skidish. In reviewing the incident, I don't really think it was productive. Nobody really reasoned anything out, it was just a bunch of insults. I would value an open discussion even with various views represented as long as it was civil and respectful.
Werner, I do agree that any discussion of this nature would have to be group initiated. I can see some advantages to discussing some topics through a the examination of a group read. So yes I think that does make sense.
If we're up for a common read in November, it isn't too early to begin brainstorming about what we might read (to come up with a few suggestions that can be put in a poll around the beginning of next month). Earlier, I'd suggested the idea of opening the scope of possibilities up, so as to include fiction.Urs, you've mentioned on a different thread that our mutual friend (and recent new member of this group) Billy Coffey is a writer whose work might offer possibilities for a common read. His newest novel, The Curse of Crow Hollow, is way too recent to be readily obtainable by interlibrary loan. But his earlier books (which seem to be widely held in libraries) might be possibilities. Is there one that you'd recommend more highly than the others?
Werner, wow it's getting that time already! Ok let the brainstorming begin!
Our library has The Curse of Crow Hollow and so does Audible so if you want to go with it it does seem to be out there. I can go either way on it.
Mike, like yours, a certain number of libraries will have it, since they buy newly-published books. But the great majority of libraries probably won't. Normally, that isn't a problem --if your local library doesn't have a book, you just ask them to borrow it for you from one that does. But in the case of very new books, a majority of libraries, by policy, won't loan them to other libraries --usually, until their own patrons have had exclusive access for a year or so. (The BC library doesn't have that policy, but most do.) So that's where the access problem comes in for many (though not all) group members where very new boooks are concerned.
My library doesn't have this book. There are some books that I would just buy, but from the description and the reviews I have my doubts that I would like it, so I wouldn't want too buy it to find out.
Cool. As noted I can go either way on it.
Swantje wrote: "My library doesn't have this book. There are some books that I would just buy, but from the description and the reviews I have my doubts that I would like it, so I wouldn't want too buy it to find ..."Yes, I don't think folks who want to take part in a common read should be put in the position of having to buy the book.
Most books are obtainable by Inter-Library loan, especially if you start early.The price is right.
Catherine Marshall's novel Christy (1967) has near-classic status in many Christian reading circles. It's one that's been on my to-read shelf forever (my wife highly recommended it). As long as we're opening our possibilities up to fiction this year, and since nobody else has made a specific suggestion yet (I didn't mention The Curse of Crow Hollow as an actual suggestion), I'll put that one on the table as a possibility.
Saw and enjoyed the Christy movies; never read the book. Might be a good choice.(Plan to read The Curse of Crow Hollow, too.)
Ron, do you mean the CBS series based on the book? My wife and I were big fans of that as well, back in the 90s when it aired!
Werner, Yes, that series. We have it on DVDs. (I think we were out of the country when it aired.) Loved it.
For folks unfamiliar with the series Ron and I are referring to (which I'm guessing might include many of our European and Australian members) here's a link to more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christy_... .
Right now, Christy is the only book that's actually been suggested for November's read. Since I'm the one who made the suggestion, obviously I'm glad that everyone's happy with it! But a poll with just one choice on it, like an old Soviet "election," is sort of an oxymoron; I'd like to see at least one more option, just to give folks a bit of a choice. I could propose another title myself; but I'd rather let the ideas come from a broader base, if anyone has anything to suggest.
Your right Werner, ive been thinking on this and have a couple of suggestions. One I have read.The Shack. Most may have already read this. I've been wanting to do a reread.
Ok a book I have not yet read. This Present Darkness.
My understanding of this book is it deals with evil forces that are at influence in our world.
It's perfectly okay to suggest, and vote for, books you've already read! If you remember the book well enough to join in the discussion, you don't have to reread it (unless you want to). I think those who've read a book before bring a valuable perspective to any discussion of it. (Just remember to use spoiler tags on your comments, in any places where they're needed!)Banner, I think both of those suggestions would probably engender a LOT of serious discussion, which of course is what we want! (I need to get offline and get ready for work, but I'll comment more on this tomorrow.)
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I'll try to have the Four Loves discussion thread up by sometime on Nov. 1!